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Comments
The Tiger is an interesting collectible...again you have to watch for counterfeits (converted Alpines) and sadly, most Tigers have been heavily modified.The 302 engine is not correct. Most people put too powerful engines in them...they are hairy enough to drive with the stock 260. Last of all, the price seems high for a car that is not outstanding and not stock....maybe $3,000-5,000 overpriced. But of the two, the Tiger is the better choice IMO, both for fun and future value.
Imagine that!
I haven't seen one of those in years...
Are you sure it wasn't 790.00 ?
I am looking for a roadster, and don't want to go the Miata route, due to the fact that I must want to suffer. Am leaning towards a late 80's Alfa.
Any thoughts?
Translation: Will keep you cool in Alaska in December with the top down going 90 mph.
Rea98d-
Abilene, Texas
I should also note that we are looking at is as a daily driver for my wife and two kids (6 & 4) so if any one has info on seat belt availability, that would be great. We're thinking life is too much fun to keep driving a mini van! That and my wife drove a 67 Fair lane 500 con. in high school and then had a series of volkswagon convertibles.
Thanks!
I know of a good running '65, red, good body and paint and top, so-so interior (sun faded and patched here and there), so much, much further along than your car, for around $4K or less....also has factory air...it isn't an XL, so doesn't have a console. So this one can already be driven everyday...top motor not working, a/c not working, non-stock wooden steering wheel. It's in colorado if you are interested, at 970-925-3956 (friends of mine). They can send you an appraisal report.
Really, it sounds like your project car would be better for parts....big American convertibles are not cheap to restore, and top and electric motor hassles can really be a pain in the neck, too.
I see these cars now and then, I think they were called the "Vitesse" as well, but they always go begging for a buyer...I've never seen one sell at auction even...no one would even bid on it. A classic case of rarity not translating into value.
Anyway, one sale (I'd LOVE to see the cancelled check!) doesn't make a market, so all you Vitesse owners, don't start loading up your cars on trailers and head for Pebble Beach.
Must've been something I ate last night.
Shifty, the Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) story is absolutely true as hard as it may seem to believe. And yes, a good Vitesse in the US is maybe $6-7k. They are very popular in the UK as a practical classic. After driving my friends years ago I was so impressed I found a complete original car that neede going through for $600.
OK, here's another one I've heard of. A "barn find" NSU Spider convertible with 16k miles, not run in 10 years. This is the Wankel engined car. What do you opine on that one?
NSU Spider....really? Now that is a rare bird in the US, although actually some 5,000 were made, so not really a rare, rare car by collector car standards. Can't say I've ever seen one--do I want to? But again, NSUs, like Simcas or Triumph Vitesses or other "oddities", are such hard sells in this country-- the buyers are there, but rarely at a high price....people collecting "curiosities" don't like to pay much. Certainly less than the cost of restoring them.
The problem is that none of these cars is historically significant...perhaps the Simca one-off could be rare enough and interesting enough for someone to pay a decent price.
It's true, many British cars will bring more money in the UK then they will here...understandably, since they are on "home turf" and more appreciated there, and repairs and spares more readily available. I'd hazard a guess than some US export models are even converted back to right hand drive.
For the most part, parts availability in the US is very good for the cars that were sold here in large numbers. For the oddballs, like a Vitesse, you have to get some parts out of the UK but these days with the internet and FedEx its actually pretty easy and not very expensive. Also, Triumph like all manufacurers shared components between models so many parts on the Vitesse were also used on the Spitfire and GT6. Some of the long time TR owners I know say that the parts availability today is actually better than when the cars were new and you could go to a dealer.
I am going to try and find time and look at the NSU this weekend. I don't have room for it but I just love the idea of a "barn find". I'll take a few snaps and then try and find it a good home.
Can't say it is an attractive car, but I guess the rotary engine makes it interesting as a bit of "backshelf" history.
Thanks for the interesting post, and good hunting!
(Actually, it does a little, but the Alfa is prettier by far IMO---also looks a little like a Sunbeam Alpine and a little like a Triumph Herald and a little like a Fiat...well, never mind...it;'s not bad looking, really....it could grow on me)
I had a red Giulia and when I started scrolling down the page I thought it was her...
But, as you point out Giulia was much prettier - and Italian!
How about posting a picture so people can see for themselves?
http://cgi.ebay.com /ebaymotors /aw-cgi/e BayISAPI.dl l?ViewItem&item =561794931 &tc=photo6216
url's not supposed to have any spaces, but that $^&*$# 100 character limit...Can we get that repealed?
The current price is $18,500, and it says "reserve not yet met" I don't know who's crazier, the buyer that bid 18,5 or the guy that wanted more than that.
I think that the bid that's up now is about market for a nice example.
Sorry, could not resist. I just found this thread.:) LOL
However, you might get a rough idea from this site:
http://www.vmrintl.com/cctm/coll_frame.htm
best,
Host
I currently have the bug to go out and buy a Mopar muscle car (68-70 Charger R/T, 70-71 Challenger R/T, T/A or 70-71 Cuda). A co-worker, who has been a long time Mopar fan, said that the prices have recently exploded, and will come down sometime soon. Do you agree with this obervation, or do you think the prices will continue to rise?
As a teenager, I owned a 65 Belvedere and 71 Barracuda. Now that I am middle aged and can afford the insurance, I would like to have the car I always dreamed of. Sounds like a mid-life crisis?
Thanks,
Bob
Well, there's a few fake hemis around, but this thing sounded like very few cars I've heard away from the strip. The gears were making the engine work pretty hard, so I got the full effect. I haven't heard enough hemis to know what they sound like but this engine had a deep edgy howl suggesting 7 liters of highly purposeful hp.
Assuming it's a numbers matching hemi, what would that car be worth?
Well, presuming matching numbers and presuming a really SHARP, ACCURATE, AUTHENTIC car (many of which are matching but not so nicely restored), around $50K-60K for show quality. A kind of so-so amateur restoration, you can knock off $20K (only the best muscle cars get the high prices).
A "fake" with a 383 is worth maybe $13.5K
What about a '70-72 Cuda or Challenger 340, clean original but not show? They were the best all-around drivers.
It's interesting that the E-bodies have such a mystique, because they're nothing more or less than a shortened Belvedere/Coronet. The only thing that saved my '70 Challenger from being truck-like was some very quick power steering. Mine had the base suspension and was clapped out, so maybe the 340 with handling package was more nimble.
The styling is nice, especially the Cuda, and says "power" a lot more clearly than previous Baracudas, but it's derivative. I knew a guy whose back yard was planted in E-bodies and one day I happened to glance quickly at one and thought he'd bought a first-generation Camaro. The shape registered "Camaro" but when I looked at it again it was a Cuda.
Of course, that was Chrysler's plan in those days. "No more risks!". They were still in Exner withdrawal.
If it's a Hemi Cuda CONVERTIBLE..... Then it is a very very rare car. A real one is worth 6-figures. I think the reason a lot of these musclecars have gotten expensive is simple.
If you go to the Kruse or Barrett-Jacksonor whatever auctions... go to car shows... It's the baby boomers buying them. These were the people that were 16 when that car was new and it was to them what a Porsche Boxster or M3 or Jaguar XKR is to my 16 year old cousin. It was the car they had plastered on the wall.
Now these guys have bucks. I tell ya one thing... grab a copy of "Sports Car Market" which analyzes the collector car auctions. You'll see that a lot of the older classics are tough to sell. The K-Series Lincolns, old 30s Packards, Cadillacs..etc... Let's face it. A 1931 Cadillac is 70 years old. How many people that remember those cars are even still around?
I bet when I'm 50, in 2025, that I'll be going to car shows and seeing restored 88 M3s, IROC-Zs, Maserati Biturbos..etc.. Who knows.... But it'll be GenX hitting middle age with money...
Bill
Now true, I won't argue that the prices are being driven up by real desire--but the reason I don't feel the prices will hold is that this type of desire will not be understood in the future, and then the car will have to stand on its own merits...that is, what does it look like, how finely it is made?, etc. So you may end up with the next generation sobering up a bit and saying...wait a minute....a Plymouth for the same price as a vintage Alfa or Jaguar, with all that wood and leather and aluminum castings, etc.....no way I'm paying that for a Cuda!
Then again, I could be wrong. We'll just have to wait and see.
However! If I'm going to spend a lot on a Mopar Musclecar it's going to be a Plymouth Superbird or Dodge Daytona.
OTOH, Look at the XK150s. A 3.8S Roadster is a not uncommon at all car with a scarce engine. How many were made, 18 if I recall? Meanwhile there's hundreds of XK150 Roadsters and DHCs out there in nice shape. A 3.8S Roadster is worth well over $100K in nice shape, and $40K will get you a nice standard XK150 Roadster, and there's always at least a dozen or more on the market.
I oughta know, I got a nice one! After I sold the Show car I went out and found a nice BRG one in great shape to use as a driver. Took me no time at all.
Bill
And really, Talledaga is not a Lemans. At Lemans, you race "all comers", in other words, you beat the world. (as even Ford once did).
But I do agree that there is a "heritage" factor in the muscle cars, even though it's mostly mythology (in the sense of "legend", not in the sense that it is "false")...and heritage is one important factor in value. Another is rarity, and most American production cars are not rare at all...what you have is a rare engine in a common body. Your car with the Hemi looks like Uncle Fred's with the 6 cylinder automatic.
So I don't see all comparisons with foreign "collectibles" as equal, at least if we are talking about the really big buck cars.
Still, I was surprised to see a Plymouth approach 100K, so maybe I'll continue to be surprised. I don't pretend to always know what makes people spend their money.
In any event, generally (with exceptions) the value of a car corresponds to convertibles being the highest, then 2-door hardtops, then 2-door coupes (post with small rear window), then 2-door sedans (post with larger rear window), then 4-doors and wagons. Of course a real Chrysler Corp. 426 Hemi in ANY body is worth at least $30K just for the engine these days. .