Cars That Could Have Been Great, But Missed

isellhondas

Mhy girlfriend's mother had one of those when we were in H.S. I remember thinking how odd it was to have a column mounted four speed manual.

It was even the same color. Don't remember what model it was.

I do remember she couldn't drive it for about a month when a skunk decided to use an empty box in their garage that was right in front of the Mercedes to deliver a litter of babies.

They never stunk anything up, were as cute as can be and thankfully left after awhile.

fintail

The 4 on the tree seems really awkward to me, I am glad my car is an automatic. I do shift it myself a lot, but it is less weird work. The cars could also be had with floor shift in later years, and in early years, a semi-automatic (Shifty will be familiar with these - a chore to keep in shape unless you use it by the book).

A similar color 230S (later car, 1965+) came out of a Yarrow Point estate a few years ago, I saw it at the sale. Hadn't been on the road in 20 years, but was extremely straight and clean, nice inside too - they were asking $2500 for it, don't know what it actually brought).

andys120

I went for a ride recently in a friend's new E320 and I noticed that it had the shifter attached to the steering column. I thought that odd since D-B was the first to put the A/T shifter on the console to give some manual selectivity to their automatic trannies. I didn't think to ask if there were shifter paddles as well.

fintail

Yeah, there are some weird shifter setups on some of the latest models. It might have to do with the 7-speed unit or maybe 4Matic, I am not sure. My only W212 experience is with a Euro E200 diesel (which I liked, amazing mileage and high build quality, but slow). As it was Euro, it had a console shift.

Here's a link to a column shift W212, no console shift in sight

However, I do believe they all have paddles along with the weird little shift lever.

I think BMW actually got the column shifter thing going a few years ago.

lemko

They messed up the Toro, but not nearly as bad as the Riv. These cars were early warning signs of the coming automotive dark age.

lemko

The 1957 Chrysler lineup was beautiful, but I think the 1958 Plymouth and Dodge were an improvement over the 1957 models. They ruined the Chrysler with those stupid shrunken taillights.

andre1969

The 1957 Chrysler lineup was beautiful, but I think the 1958 Plymouth and Dodge were an improvement over the 1957 models. They ruined the Chrysler with those stupid shrunken taillights.

I think the '58 Dodge was definitely an improvement. The true quad headlights looked better than the fake-me-out look where they put big round turn signals just inboard of the single headlights in '57. And the bumper and grille area was much less bulky looking in '58.

The Plymouth was a big improvement up front. Similar treatment with the headlights, and they finally matched the lower sub-grille with the main grille. The '57, in contrast, had those slats under the bumper that made it look like it was just about finished swallowing a Jeep. I didn't care for the little lollipop taillights on the '58 though, and single backup light mounted in the middle of the bumper. Definitely a cost-cutting move.

With Chrysler, I don't care for the shrunken taillights in back, but I like the grille. It looks a bit DeSoto-ish, which is probably why I like it, but unfortunately, that was an omen of things to come, as Mopar worked to start moving Chrysler downscale, to let Imperial fly more on its own as a Cadillac/Lincoln contender.

And I like the '58 DeSoto. It had busier, more complex details, both up front and in back, and lost its unique lower spear two-toning that had become a '55-57 trademark, but I thought it still looked good. And the '58 Firesweep was a big improvement. Somehow, that busier 58 DeSoto grille worked better on the Dodge front clip than the cleaner '57 grille did, and the quad headlights certainly helped.

There are a couple of other instances where I prefer the '58 to its '57 counterpart. First, the '58 Ford. I know it doesn't get much love, but I think it looks better up front than that bug-eyed '57. I don't like the '58 taillights though. And I know everybody just loves the '57 Chevy to death, but I actually prefer the '58!

lemko

Of the "classic" Chevies, I prefer the 1955 model. It is the purest design of the bunch - not that any of them are bad.

andre1969

Of the "classic" Chevies, I prefer the 1955 model. It is the purest design of the bunch - not that any of them are bad.

Yeah, they're all decent. And to be honest, the main reason I'm not that crazy about the '57 Chevy is probably simply that it became TOO popular. In classic car terms at least, everybody and his mother has one. Of the three, I think the '56 is my favorite. I prefer the full-width grille, and more aggressive front-end rake.

uplanderguy

I say that in old cars, Chevys are too popular, but I blow my own theory right out of the water when it comes to certain models. I think the '55 is great all-around. My favorite of the three years. The '56 is second-best, mostly because it's closer to the '55 than the '57 is. The '57 is so hyped that it's a turn-off to me...like most things that are hyped to death. I don't care for the instrument panel or that fanned-out piece of trim on the rear quarters, either. I actually prefer the One-Fifty, which doesn't have that rear quarter trim, to a lot of '57's. I would enjoy a Dusk Pearl '57 Nomad though

andys120

The '56 was my favorite too Andre. To my eyes it manages to look more substantial than the somewhat gaudy '57 and more sleek than either the '55 or the '57. They are all good designs but the '56 is close to perfect.

lemko

Anybody recall where the gas cap was on the '56?

imidazol97

Behind the swing down taillight-left side IIRC.

andys120

Behind the license plate.

isellhondas

Nope, it was behind the left tailight and unless a person knew that, they would NEVER find it.

I like all of those vintage Chevys too but I also lean toward the 56's.

Some guy shows up at the local car shows with a reproduction LAPD 1956 Chevy 210 and it is SO cool. The lights, siren decals, everything looks like it would have looked patrolling the streets of L.A.

Another guy has the most oddball '56 I've ever seen. It's a 210 four door HARDTOP! It has a continental kit and just about every dealer installed accessory it could possibly have. Last summer, he drove it from Seattle to Chicago for a meet.

andre1969

Wow, a 4-door hardtop '56 Chevy must be pretty rare these days, especially in the 210 series. 4-door hardtops are unloved in general I know...the low value of a 4-door coupled with all the squeaks, rattles, etc of a hardtop, but I always thought they were cool.

The only 4-door hardtop I ever had was a 1969 Bonneville. It was actually surprisingly solid in the passenger cabin/door area. The doors closed with a solid thunk, and the car didn't shake or rattle. Losing a full-height B-pillar didn't seem to compromise its rigidity one bit. Now where it DID feel cheap was when you closed the trunk or the hood. Both sounded cheap and tinny. Actually, my '67 Catalina convertible sounds a bit inadquate in those departments, as well.

lemko

Heck, despite its unpopularity in the collector market, the four door hardtop is my favorite body style. It has the sleekness of a two-door hardtop with the practicality of a sedan. If Cadillac were to make a modern 4-door hardtop DTS, I'd be the first in line for one.

isellhondas

Another Ebay find. This one is a Trailer Queen.

Now, this is an example of a car that has been totally over restored.

Yes, it is nice and, yes I do appreciate the time and money that it must have taken to restore this Impala but it is nicer than it was when it left the factory.

The paint and detailing under the hood and under the car are so far over the top that it's nuts. They have created a Trailer Queen that is too nice to drive.

Now, I know there the those who like over restored cars but I'm not one of them.

THEN, they just HAD to hokey it up with a Contnental Kit and skirts.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/IMPALA-AACA-NATIONAL-1ST-PLACE-SENIOR-AWARD-WINNE- R-/330519200235?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4cf47ac1eb

Anyone?

lemko

Get rid of the Continental kit and the skirts for one. For those unacquainted with 1950s-early 1960s cars, they'd think every one was painted red and white.

isellhondas

As soon as I saw the photo of the front of that Chevy, I just KNEW it would have a continental kit hanging off the rear.

Why anyone would want to ruin the looks of a car is beyond me.

The skirts are easy to take off but I don't know what would be requred to get rid of the C.K. Do they cut or modify the bumper to install one?

And, you're right about the red and white part too!

imidazol97

This one's not red, but it's a great color that I rarely saw in the days.

The wheel well skirts don't do it for me. Those were rarely used on new ones in my childhood area. AND these skirts don't look to be quite the same color as the body in the picture. In person, I didn't notice the difference. The car was original.

full size photo

isellhondas

If I was buying that car, I would have the seller remove the skirts before I would hand him the money!

The question begs...WHY??

uplanderguy

I detest most skirts and continental kits...same with bright red (tomato red on '60's Fords) that's so commonplace. I seem to remember a copper color on '60 Chevys that I liked when I was a kid.

I really like '61 Chevy Sport Coupes, and the '62 Bel Air Sport Coupe. One thing about the '61 I can't stand though, is the pushbuttons on the radio spell out "Chevy". A Chevy II, a Chevy van, OK...but an Impala is a "Chevrolet"! I'd actually look for one with a manual-tune radio, I can't stand it that bad!

andys120

The question begs...WHY??

Nowadays we would say "it's a thang". It was just a cheap, quick way to "customize" the car. It was neither uncommon nor routine back in the day.

Honestly it doesn't help the '56 Chevy but there are plenty of cars that wore skirts well.>

lemko

The designer wouldn't have penned those beautiful arched rear wheel cutouts if he'd have meant for them to be skirted. Could you imagine how stupid a 1955-56 Buick would look with skirts?

imidazol97

full size

isellhondas

I would pull them off that Jag too.

berri

I think the 57 Chevy got popular because of the new (or more correctly bored out I guess) 283.

The mid fifties GM 4 door hardtops were very attractive cars lost in the collector world focus toward coupes and convertibles.

imidazol97

In looking at '55s, I just realized there are two different trim paths and wheel openings for a '55 Buick. One has a lower level up on the panel for the chrome at the rear wheel!

andys120

I would pull them off that Jag too.

You could make a good argument for that but one fine day I happened to get behind a guy in a 120 like that one(Black/disc wheels/skirts) with a tonneau over the passenger seats. I thought it was one of the coolest cars I had ever seen.

Not that it would look bad skirtless with wires. :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

And the skirts on that Jag 120 serve two purposes---one for aesthetics, and the other to overheat the rear brake drums on a car that is already too powerful for its brakes.

isellhondas

Yes, the Supers and Roadmaster 4 doors had different rear wheel openings than the Specials and Centurys.

The Century was the one I would want. They have the smaller Special body with the Roadmaster engine.

The CHP used these and few cars could outrun them at that time.

Where are you finding those photos?

imidazol97

Google

hpmctorque

My favorite of the '55-'57 Chevys is also the '55.

One thing I don't like about the '57s is that Chevy went to 14" wheels, from 15". Most of the domestic industry went to 14" that year, which made no sense for such large cars. The VW Beetle and Renault Dauphine stayed with 15".

oregonboy

The VW Beetle and Renault Dauphine stayed with 15" (wheels).

Yeah, but they were, what, maybe 4" wide. :P

berri

I never cared for the 57 Chev instrument panel - looks cheap to me. I'm guessing the change in wheel diameter was a quick knee jerk to the new, lower profile Ford and Plymouth models that year.

isellhondas

Five hours to go and look at the activity and look at those dollars for JUNK!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1955-CHEVY-NOMAD-BEL-AIR-/250755538412?pt=US_Cars- _Trucks&hash=item3a6231ddec

Or am just out of touch with reality?

andys120

What they're really buying is the VIN. That's what certifies as a real Nomad and what makes it economical to do a complete frame-up. It'll cost a fortune but they'll have something that's worth a lot.

I doubt this is a matching numbers car since they didn't have 327s in 1955.
Perhaps Shifty can tell us how that might impact its value.

uplanderguy

The '55 is the best Nomad IMHO. It has way more Nomad-only body parts (rear quarters) and trim than the '56 and '57 do.

Mr_Shiftright

Well the car is a bloody mess, with wrong engine, wrong transmission and perhaps missing pieces, but nonetheless there is "room" here to restore the car. It's also possible to track down the correct year engine that might even be correctly date-coded. The engine # does not match the VIN on these cars, so there's never going to be "matching numbers" proof anyway. You go by date codes and casting numbers and someone who is diligent might be able to re-create this car to become correct once again.

Cars like the Nomad are "iconic" which means they have left the platform of rationality and don't follow many of the hard and fast rules of classic car values.

Still, while this is an enormous project, it does probably have an upside---well two upsides---you might come out even on it, and you'll have a car that everyone loves to see.

I myself would tear it apart and make a nice resto-mod, pro tourer out of it--corvette power, fuel injection, 5-speed automatic, AC, killer sound system, disc brakes, suspension upgrades, radial tires---but leave it looking as stock as possible otherwise.

andys120

Yeah that's what I'd do too although it's financially dicey. Does anybody really know what a given resto-mod is worth?

The first thing I'd replace are the seats. We tend to forget how crappy seats used to be.

Mr_Shiftright

Well if you do a really nice job you could be worth $35K--$40K on a resto-mod of that type. If it were stock and perfectly restored you could push $80K on a good day. But that would have to be really sumpthin'.

andys120

In that case I think you might come out behind on a resto-mod. That car would cost a fortune to build into anything decent.

isellhondas

It's sitting at 9888.00 and, get this, it's short of his reserve!

Even if a person can do much of the work himself, I just think it's hopeless. Not enough photos to see how much is missing but by the time a person pays for it, pays to transport it and jumps in...I think a person would be SO much better off buying one that's already done, restro-mod or stock.

Funny, a guy that I know who lives in my town has the identical Nomad. Same color combo too. Just a fantastic car. Totally stock except for a set of chrome Cragers and the 265 has been replaced with a 350. Nicest one I've ever seen.

I think this guy should drop his reserve, grab the money and run like a thief in the night!

Also, the seller has no history. This is his first Ebay transaction.

isellhondas

10,850 !

Something like 26 bids with several contenders in the fray!

Mr_Shiftright

He should definitely drop reserve, yes. The second time is usually not as good on eBay.

It'll probably take $60K to bring the car back to beautiful...and even then, you'll have to make a few sober decisions.

igozoomzoom

What about what they did to the Riviera in 1986??? The only way to tell it apart from the Toronado and Eldorado was to look for the stupid CRT touch-screen display in the middle of the center stack...

uplanderguy

I don't like the '70 either. At the time, I didn't like boattail Rivs but have come to like them. At the time, and now, I like the '74-76 Rivs also. Although the Toro had FWD, I think the Riv looked sportier. From '71-76, the Rivs were the largest GM car you could get with buckets and console shift.

The '86 Riv is awful. So is the Eldo. The Toronado, in dark blue, looked the best of all three IMHO.

I actually liked the '95 Riv, and you could still get a bench seat with fold-down armrest and column shift. That tapered rear end was a turnoff though. I always thought they should have had wraparound taillights a la Mercury Sable of the late '90's, that would have shown only a small section of lighting across the back, hopefully making the rear end look wider.

isellhondas

Here's a nice '57 for you!

4 days to go and already at over 7000.00 for what may be a bigger piece of junk than that '55!

Proof that I'm totally out of touch with reality as to the value of these!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1957-NOMAD-BELAIR-2-door-Wagon-needing-restoratio- n-/320643159129?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4aa7d25459

Mr_Shiftright

Yep you have to look at the upside on a 57 Nomad. Restored it could be worth $75000 and/or they made great 50s "gassers" (front end lift, no bumper, big engine), so become period drag cars.

I'd say it's worth the money and more. I bet it goes to $10K or better.

It's not the same as looking at some junked-up 4-door of the same period, or even a "normal" wagon. These cars are special.