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Comments
OTOH, you are right that if HYundai is making these reparations to owners of cars with inflated numbers, they should do it across the board for all models that were affected.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
lokanna - At 135 hp the Elantra GT still tops all 5-door hatchbacks in its price class, with the exception of the Aerio (which may not have been available when you looked 6 months ago). Looking outside of the 5-door hatches, the Elantra wasn't even close to being at the top of the hp heap in hp 6 months ago. The Cavalier "sport" had 150 hp, so it topped the Elantra even before its published hp was lowered. (Assuming the Cav's hp numbers are accurate... I guess we really don't know, do we?) So why didn't you buy a Cavalier? Maybe because the Elantra was a much better car overall than the Cavalier? And the Neon ACT and R/T had 150 hp too; why not buy a Neon? The Sentra SE-R has 165 hp (it was higher before Nissan republished the hp rating--seems they overestimated it at first). Why didn't you buy a Sentra SE-R? Maybe because it cost thousands more than an Elantra?
Quite frankly the number is pretty meaningless at the best of times and under what conditions was it measured in any case. More important is how the car feels to drive, how it performs, power to weight ratio has more meaning that just a HP number if you want to get into numbers, the torque figure is more relevant than just HP.
It sounds to me that a lot of people see this as a way to get something for nothing, that to me is rather a sad reflection on the way society is going. You bought a good car enjoy it.
Personally I don't care what HP my car has so long as it goes well, and does what I need it to do. HP wasn't even a consideration when I bought my car, price, features, (real) performance, comparison to the opposition were.
My 2 cents worth
‘2555’ It sounds to me that a lot of people see this as a way to get something for nothing, that to me is rather a sad reflection on the way society is going. You bought a good car enjoy it.
Re: Do you think they are doing the these buyers a big favor? If horsepower thing is nothing ,they would not have offered the extended warranties stuff. Yet the offered extended warranties might not mean anything to me and most of the buyers. It’s not transferable, and I am not keeping the car for that long.
Hyundai will also damage it's reputation in some of it’s potential buyers mind because of the horsepower issue if it can not make the simple stories straight. I found the following kind of fishy:
'But power was a big deal inside the company, according to Rex Parker, product planner at HMA from 1996-2000 and now at marketing consultant AutoPacific. Hyundai initially used Mitsubishi engines, "and as a matter of corporate pride, Hyundai came up with horsepower numbers higher than Mitsubishi's," Parker says, even though the engines were alike.'
Hyundai officials did not return phone calls requesting comment on Parker's allegations.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002-09-09-hynudai-horsepower_x.htm
Model
Published HP Actual HP Percent overstated
1999-2000 Sonata 2.5 liter 170 163 4.3%
1999 Accent 1.5 liter 92 88 4.5%
2003 Tiburon 2.0 liter 140 134 4.5%
2001-2002 Santa Fe 2.7 liter 181 173 4.6%
1997 Elantra 1.8 liter 130 124 4.8%
2001 XG300 3.0 liter 192 182 5.5%
1997 Accent 1.5 liter DOHC 105 99 6.1%
2002 Sonata 2.7 liter 181 170 6.5%
2003 Tiburon 2.7 liter 181 170 6.5%
1996 Accent 1.5 liter DOHC 105 98 7.1%
2001-2002 Sonata 2.4 liter 149 138 8.0%
2001-2002 Santa Fe 2.4 liter 149 138 8.0%
1997-1998 Sonata 2.0 liter 137 125 9.6%
Source: Hyundai
http://www.usatoday.com/money/2002-09-10-horsepower.htm
Model year
BTW I still love my car, but I can't help but feel deceived and there's nothing really I could do at this point.
Desg hit it right on the nose. The people of the US feel they are automatically entitled to some form of compensation the second they are wronged. Everyone always wants something for nothing. It's really quite disgusting. No wonder why we live in the land of lawsuits. Some people are just going way overboard about this whole warranty extension thing. You know darn well they simply want the security of knowing their car will be covered under warranty even longer.
p.s. Here's a thought: Ever notice how dealer's cover their butts in newspaper ads by stating that they are not responsible for misprints? You don't expect to hold the dealer responsible for the newspaper's misprint so why do you think Hyundai should be responsible for a miscalculation by someone in engineering or whoever made the mistake? It's the same basic principle. Both are in business to make money, not give it away.
THE ONLY EXCEPTION should be for cars marketed as sports cars or coupes, in which case I think hp measure is a much more important part of the sales package. So maybe you could make a case for Tiburon owners being compensated similar to the way the Cobra and Miata owners were.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If it were a 15 hp difference on a 140 hp car, yes, I would feel differently and look to Hyundai for some sort of compensation. But that's a moot point, because if the discrepancy were 15 hp, I would have qualified for compensation under Hyundai's plan. And their extended warranty offer would be good enough for me.
Personally I don't really understand all this uproar about misstated horsepower ratings on Elantras et. al., when HMA has IMO made a much bigger mistake that almost everyone is ignoring. Hyundai has fixed the problem with the driver's seat mounts that caused the driver's seat to move forward too far in the IIHS offset crash test, contributing to the Elantra's "Poor" ranking in that test. But they have fixed the problem only on Elantras sold in Korea--not in North America. And they have not recalled the Elantras with the defective seat mounts. This is not a matter of a few lost horsepower--horsepower we never had to begin with. This is a safety issue. Why aren't more Elantra owners up in arms about this issue? Why haven't they written to HMA about it, as I have done (to Finnbar O'Neil, President of HMA)? In addition, why haven't owners demanded that HMA take action to remedy the air bag deployment problem that also contributed to the poor offset crash test results? Yes, I know Hyundai claims there was no problem with the air bags, it's the same sensors as used in the Sonata and they worked just fine in the tests etc. etc. Sorry, HMA--the air bag deployed late 2 out of 3 times in the IIHS tests--not good odds from where I stand--or sit, actually.
As for my ad analogy, think about it further. In the USA Today article it stated that Korean engineers failed to tell US marketing about the discrepancy in power ratings due to our higher emission regs. So now HMA is being held responsible for a mistake done by the parent company in general and the engineers in particular. It was a miscommunication done by HUMAN BEINGS who are capable of making mistakes. Keep that in mind. Mistakes happen and in the real world you aren't always compensated for them.
I understand the impact of a company having to compensate that many people. At this point I don't care any more whether or not I get compensated. I deeply believe Hyundai has hurt it's own reputation with many of its current and future customers.
FYI for US owners, Hyundai Canada only offers 3yr/60km (38 miles) warranty as a standard. (Like every one else except for Kia -5/100km) So an extra year would have been nice.
In accordance with our Town Hall Membership Agreement, let's please use civil/friendly debate when discussing our differences of opinion. Please note: hostile remarks, and name calling of any kind, are subject to automatic deletion. Also, I think it's time we get back to focusing more specifically on the subject of the Elantra GT. Okay?
Feel free to send me an email if you have any questions. Thanks for your participation!
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
The 125HP from the Civic doesn't seem all that bad now, especially with the 31/40 gas mileage!
Anyways, I think its a toss up for me between the Civix EX (mainly its reliability reputation) and the Elantra GT (its just a cool car!!) for me. Now I have to figure out if I like the sedan version or not.
The late deploying air bag is a much bigger concern for me.
Until then, I'll be happy in my GT.
Speaking of horsepower and performance, I caught the latest Motorweek on Speed Channel last night. They got a 8.1 second 0-60 time from the hot new 210hp GTS version of the Eclipse automatic. The same folks at Motorweek got the Elantra GT to do it in 8 flat. IMHO, 0-60 is a more meaningful number than raw horsepower figures. The GT's low 0-60 time is a major part of what got me to buy it over a used Subaru wagon.
IMO the Elantra GT is still the best vehicle of its class given performance, features, price and a manufacturer who is willing to take a public relations hit when it could have easily covered up. This last gives me confidence in Hyundai's corporate integrity...if not Engineering's ability to do mathematical calculations...and I thought I could never be an engineer.
http://gwebworks.com/elantra_gt
It would be interested to see what the actual numbers for and against are.
"I was torn between buying the GT or Aerio SX. I finally decided for the Aerio and even until a few minutes ago, I found myself second guessing if I made the right choice. Now, after finding out about the situation with hyundai, I am finally 110% happy with my choice. "
Why is this? Because of the horsepower SNAFU from Hyundai reducing the Elantra GT to 135 hp /133 lf.ft? The GT is still faster than the Aerio in acceleration tests (see MotorWeek reviews; 0-60 in 8 secs vs 8.3 secs for the Aerio; 16.3/86 mph vs 16.5/84 mph for the Aerio) which I admit depends more on torque than horsepower. However, just by looking at it the Aerio would likely have a higher drag coefficient than the GT thus limiting its top speed and probably erasing the hp advantage.
More on these reviews--
Elantra GT = http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2111.shtml
Aerio SX = http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2132a.shtml
So if it was not performance, it must have been features or interior space that pushed marco18 towards Suzuki. Well if you check this out you would wonder why that is ...
http://home.houston.rr.com/wmoses/elantra_gt/gt_vs_aerio.pdf
So it was not that. It must have been looks, since that is subjective and everyone has his/her own taste. For me the big body and little wheels reminds me too much of the horrible little Toyota Echo.
We _know_ it can't have been the warranty.
I hope it is not too late to change your mind, marco18. :-)
The faulty transmissions could and has caused accidents. So, it seems likey Hyundai owner's have it good, compared to Honda owners.
The mistated horsepower thing sucks, but at least it doesn't put you in any danger.
I never said anything negative about the car. My gripe is with the company's incompetence to not be able to obtain accurate and correct information about the cars they are trying so hard to "stand behind".
Personally, I love the unique styling of the Aerio SX, both inside and out. I'm not knocking the GT. It's a nice little car and if I had enough money, I would probably buy one for my wife.
So enjoy your car man. Don't be angry with me, I wasn't the one who lied to you......lol (just a joke)
I was just making the point that you chose a car which you say as better for reasons I can't comprehend. That's all.
FWIW, I think that the Elantra GT has flaws and is not the best car in the world. How's that for you.
Unlike some, I am not fanatical about the car (or the line) in and of itself. I *am* very impressed by the cost/benefit ratio that Hyundai manages to achieve over and over again. I am an engineer -- I think that way. I also bought 4 Hyundais so far for that same reason.
The engineer in me also says that there are cars far better engineered than the GT. As an example, I am pretty partial to the MB C230 Sport Coupe and the engineering that went into that. I am sure that there are many others. I also love BMWs. Can't recall seeing either marque offering vehicles for $14,000 base.
When I want to look for an alternative to the GT it will be a vehicle that is obviously superior. By a significant and non-subjective margin. Doesn't even have to cost the same because I know that after a certain point features and quality have to be sacrificed to save money.
So you go and enjoy your choice. No problem. :-D
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
p.s. Lokanna, should I email them and ask for a refund or some other form of compensation for the time I spent looking at their falsified data? I mean, they did lie to me right? hehehehe. I couldn't resist
Suffice it to say that the data came from a third party comparator service -- AutoSite -- which can be located here:
http://www.autosite.com/
Their comparator is what was on the Hyundai website. Maybe the Hyundai people hacked the output to make it favour the GT. Who knows. Just checking the comparison on the AutoSite website directly the output is similar, though not the same. IMO the outcome is still the same, though -- two very similar and comparable cars, with the GT having the edge (performance, features and warranty) and to my eyes, is also the better looker.
'Nuff said.
The SX does look attractive, though, when you factor in: Good powertrain warranty, 0% financing for 60 months, AWD, More interior space, more usable cargo area, standard 6-disc CD changer, great outward view, high, comfortable seating position.
However, I'm still leaning toward the Hyundai because of what the Suzuki is MISSING. However, I don't see how people would be shocked the two would be cross-shopped. My local dealer is Hyundai/Suzuki and MANY looking at the Elantra were also checking out the Aerio. I hear they are considering Side airbags and Sunroof for the 2004 which will make it MUCH MORE competitive.