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Comments
Keep in mind, people with problems are MUCH MORE VOCAL than those that are happy. My wife loves our Envoy SLT (she is the main driver). Our only problem so far was the paint chipping on the tailgate. A minor problem although it was a bit of a challenge to get it fixed. Now, it will be easy since the fix is out in the open.
I think the vast majority of the people posting problems here would not change their decision to buy given the option.
So, my advice (as an owner) would be, drive one and if you like it, go for it.
I would bet (and I don't know the answer) that if you chose almost any discussion forum on here of other models, you would see people posting questions about problems they are having with them, moreso than people praising them. I think it's helpful to read the threads for a while before purchasing, though, since you will start to get an idea of the situation and put it into perspective. And it gives you ammo for questions to ask your salesman, and like we've seen above, you can find out about TSB's, etc. even before the dealer's service dept.
What worries me about all these late model vehicles is the extent to which they rely on computers. I tend to drive a car "forever" and in very hot weather. I'm wondering how well all the computer modules are going to work in year 7,8,9, etc. I bet they will be very expensive to replace then.
Amsoil: Great products a lot of the subie guys I hang with swear by them. Very helpful in MTs for cold weather chattering.
-mike
Also, EnvoyEnvy1... thanks for the clarification. I think that both you and I have different issues with the cold acceleration problem. Fortunately, my Envoy does not have the engine fan issue which causes the delayed acceleration, instead it just suffers from delayed acceleration (ha,ha). Well, my vehicle is still in the hands of the service department, so I will let you know if they were able to drum up anything concerning this problem. Thus far, it seems as if only Medolark and myself are experiencing this "unique" problem. Anyone else out there notice a delayed acceleration problem in the early mornings (not related to the engine fan being engaged at that time)??
Thanks!
IExplore2000@aol.com
One other thing for us northerners, when the doors are unlocked with the keyfob and the seat/mirror reposition function is on, look out for ice damage to the mirrors when they try to reposition and are iced up. One of my mirror actuators ground itself to death trying to position a mirror frozen in place. The same applies to rain sense wipers. If they are left in the on mode at night, and you start the car in the A.M with ice on the windshield, good by wiper motor. The wipers also come on when going through a car wash if they are not fully in the off position. Now you have to check the position of the wiper control each time you start the truck.
By the way, my milage increased about 2 mpg when I turned off the air by hand. I don't know if it was on all winter when using the auto temp mode. Does anyone know if the air is running full time in the winter in the auto temp mode.
I think too much was left up to the computer programmers to design. Their product seems to show they do not have a lot of real world experience. Many of these problems should have been figured out before the first truck pulled off of the assembly line. If someone at G.M. is reading this, a reply would be welcomed. We won't engage in name calling or anything, just discussion. There are too many little problems and not enough solutions coming out of G.M. I am getting to know my service manager better than any other manager in 36 years of driving.
Frank
There is a TSB, print the whole thing out and show it to your dealer. Email me at jonaa@earthlink.net if you want the link (I don't want the moderators yelling at me).
On that subject, I don't think posting a link is a violation of copyrights any more than giving somebody directions to a library....and hitting "cancel" isn't exactly hacking. If that site wasn't supposed to be viewed by us they could have easily made it that way. Unless, of course, the people doing their web design were the same brilliant individuals that programmed my mirrors....
On the ground clearance, I've scraped the bottom of mine a bunch of times without hurting anything. Mine had all the options I wanted except the "Underbody shield package" so I had them add that right after I bought it. The lowest part between the wheels is the frame rails which makes the whole thing look really low. Some 4x4's look like they have a ton of ground clearance but then they have the transfer case hanging 6" below the rest of the vehicle.... The tranny, transfercase, etc is tucked up well above the framerails on these things.
That said, it sure could use some more ground clearance. I'll be lifting mine 1 1/2-2" and adding bigger tires (nobody's heard of wheelspacers?) in the next year or so. I'll let you all know how I did it when I do.
I've found one of the most dangerous things is the suspension is too good at soaking up bumps. I'll find myself going well over twice as fast as I can go with the 1-ton (without my head banging off the roof). That can lead to driving much too fast for the conditions which can mean broken parts if you hit something really nasty while going much faster than you should have been.
Oh, the lack of a locked 4WD and low range are definate disadvantages for the Bravada.
Link away!
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Here are some links! (Cut and paste these into your browser, then print them!) These should help some of the most common problems I've seen listed here:
On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Improvements (Reprogram PCM) - Service Engine Soon Light On, DTC P0014, P0116, P1683, Delayed Transmission Downshift and/or Excessive Fan Noise #01-06-04-052
http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=831229
Uncommanded Movement of Outside Rearview Mirrors (Replace Mirror Actuator) #02-08-64-008
http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=873047
Paint Rub Through on Liftgate around Edge of License Plate Housing/Pocking (Install Insulating Seal/Gasket) #02-08-66-004
http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=876572
Windnoise or Gap Between Luggage Carrier Side Rail Front Cover and Roof Sheet Metal (Secure Front SIde Rail Corners and/or Reposition Cross Bows) #01-08-58-004
http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=818804
Erratic Instrument Panel Indicators/Gauges (Needles/Pointers) When Vehicle Ignition is Switched On (Reprogram Instrument Panel Cluster Software) #01-08-49-006
http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=797026
Whine Noise from Power Steering (P/S) System During Vehicle Start-up at Low Ambient Temperatures (Flush/Bleed P/S System, Change P/S Fluid) #01-02-32-005
http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=802042
A word of caution, guys. Before you print these out and slap them on the dealer's desk, make sure they apply to your vehicle. For example, the first one I listed has a specific VIN cut-off. If your vehicle was built after that, it has the new programming and the TSB will do nothing for you. Or, for the rear gasket thing...make sure you don't have it before you tell them to install it (I know it seems obvious, but you never know). Just use some common sense....
Hope that helps everybody!
and are tired of the login-password popup...go to IE Tools Menu, internet Options, Advanced Tab...scroll down to multimedia and un-check the Show Pictures Option. This will prevent the annoying pop-up from showing
tim
After talking about this for over 5 months and having a fix from the authoritative source I got abit over zealous with the "cut and paste" routine before looking for the copyright.
I am however, glad that we can ALL get this (and other annoyances) behind us thanks to http://service.gm.com/servlets/SMSCTSrv?&year=2002&make=Chevrolet%2FGeo&model=Trailblazer+-+4WD&cfg=&mfmyrcgkey=0 This will give us time to talk about mods and such for these great vehicles.
After you 'un-check the Show Pictures Option' and go to one of the links with pictures (you can not view them at this time) reverse the procedure and check the Show Pictures Option again. This allows you to roam freely through the links, view the pictures and still avoid the pop up until you close your browser. Don't know if it will work for all but works with IE6 on my computer.
http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=834313
That's one thing you gotta give GM credit for. Even though it ain't necessarily broke, if enough customers complain... they always come up with a fix!
Sbindley: Is is possible for you to e-mail me your pics with the new wheel/tire combination? I would love to see it!
Thanks!
IExplore2000@aol.com
Thanks for the post;can't afford new wheels but in time I will need tires.
-mike
When my 91 Van, several years out of warranty, broke down on the highway, I call them and they help me get it towed in. I discovered that when a pulley bearing goes out and breaks the surpentine belt, your stuck.
By the way, I love my Envoy and wouldn't trade it for anything, but maybe a new one in a few years. It handles great even when towing, and definitely get the BOSE. My last long distance highway drive was over 22 mpg.
No Start, Turn/Hazzard, Interior Lamps, DIC, Radio, Theft Alarm, Wipers, Cruise, Shift Interlock, Horn and/or Key in Signal Inoperative (Repair/Insulate Steering Column Wiring Harness) #02-06-03-001
Go To:
http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=848403
2002 Chevrolet and GMC S/T Utility Models (TrailBlazer, Envoy)
2002 Oldsmobile Bravada
Built Prior to VIN Breakpoint 22238123
Sounds like this is what you are talking about.
The left and right front bottom cushions both
lean in towards the console. After a while behind
the wheel, it starts to be quite hard on my back.
My local Dealer says that he has heard several
people complain of the same thing. At this time he says it's a characteristic of the seats and that there is NOTHING they can do! Does anyone else have this problem? I'd like to know how
wide spread the problem is. I may have to end up banging my head on the wall with GM to get some
kind of results. I know it took a while for GM
to release the fix for the rear deck license plate
housing. Maybe if this problem is wide spread, GM
will figure out a fix for the seats.
Thanks for your time!
Matt
My Bravada is in the shop for several things, the most important the binding on sharp turns. At first I got a "can't duplicate". I told them to keep trying. After awhile, they got it to lock up and bind in a sharp turn. They called the tech adviser and told me it's a tranfer case problem.
Maybe it's not the rear end after all. Time will tell after I get it back. They are replacing a squeaky serp belt, and ordering the infamous tailgate gasket. He also said they are downloading many computer upgrades. Maybe everyone can cross their fingers and chant to the auto gods that this will fix my problems!
GAM2
I'm moving forward into getting links and pics of other owners here and other places and would be happy to post links, details and pics whatever....I have plenty of server space.
Basically I just want to get the aftermarket awareness up like happend with the GTP clubs I'm a part of.
Just email me or post your thoughts and ideas.
tim
I reworked the cushion in mine and, for me, it is much better. I just cut and added foam in just the right places, which took some experimenting. The seat cover comes right off after getting the seat bottom assembly out. There is no needle and thread required.
My dealer was not willing to help either. The upholstery shops also didn't know what to do; so I had no choice but sell it or fix it.
Good luck.
If you look closely, the gap is so wide you can see how the fender is bolted to the body.
Thanks!
Tim
Here's why:
You seem to be describing the kind of binding you get with any 4WD that locks the front and rear driveshafts together. If you put a TB or Envoy in 4HI you'll get the same binding--that's why you don't leave them there on pavement. Your Bravada shouldn't ever do that.
Your Bravada should operate much the same way the others do in A4WD--the front driveshaft isn't engaged until it senses the rear wheels spinning. Then it will increase the torque of the front clutch to engage the front driveshaft.
If you have a wheelspeed sensor giving bad information, the computer will think you're spinning your wheels and lock you into 4WD. When I had a sensor go out, I would get the same binding in A4WD as I did in 4HI. After they fixed it, A4WD feels just like 2HI in tight turns even on dry pavement. But 4HI still binds up--as it should.
Anyway, no guarantees (like I said--only 80% sure) but it's something to have them check out if they're stumped. Other than that I'd look to the transfer case control module being bad or needing a reprogram. For some reason it's applying alot of pressure to the front clutchpack when it shouldn't be.
But most importantly, don't give up! Stay on them until they fix this or you will tear up your entire driveline very soon.
-mike
After reading your post, I actually took a level to my seats. They don't lean or tilt in, they are level. They aren't the most comfortable but I can live with them. You may want to check out Envoy and Bravada and see if they don't feel better to you. Swapping out seats would cost less than selling your truck if there is enough of a difference to you to satisfy your needs.
You can bet GM isn't going to do anything no matter how many complain. They will probably make a change to the design in the next model year and provide more of a bucket seat.
Good luck!
At least I printed out what I was interested in.
I'll get us a password and log on. Several Probably.
I have plenty of connections
tim
I have been using the Mobil One synthetic filter # M1-206. Hopefully this helps you!
Good Luck!
IExplore2000@aol.com
If someone there is getting this...open it back up and deal with it. You're just going to end up having it released somewhere anyway. Can't keep everyone quiet.
You see the same problem with folks getting a TSB off the net and then demanding that their dealer "fix" something that may not even be an issue with that particular VIN. Follow the money - this info can cost the service writers bucks dealing with people wanting "bug fixes."
But it was nice while it lasted....
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards