Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

richardcoulson

Anyone know where I can get some stiffer shocks or sway bars for my trailblazer? I want to stiffen it up a little.
thanks.

aadland

I was worried about that Steve, but I don't think that's what happened in this case. This was too fast. In two days, how many people could have gone to their dealers and demanded TSB's that didn't apply be done to their vehicle? I doubt enough to raise any eyebrows. I would guess that probably 99% of people walking in with TSB's they got from the links are dead right that their vehicles need that fix. And they've probably been turned away by the dealer for the fix already (if it's due to the dealer being a jerk or the dealer simply not knowing doesn't matter--the fact is the vehicle didn't get fixed until the customer had the information).

I'll guarantee you somebody that works for GM and felt it was his "responsibility" saw the links on this site and crapped his pants. And/or, they probably wondered why their server was going into meltdown and investigated.

To the people at GM that are reading this (and I know you are):

Ask yourselves why thousands of people that just paid you nearly $40K for a "top of the line" product felt they needed to access that site?

Could it be that your product has a whole bunch of defects that should have been caught before going into production?

Could it be that your paying customers had no luck when they asked their local dealers to fix the problems?

Do you know how infuriating it is when your new, expensive vehicle has a defect, you take it to your dealer to have the defect fixed and are told there is no fix only to find out there is, in fact, a TSB on the problem? That your dealer either didn't know or was lying to you? When the only way you can get your vehicle fixed is to slap a copy of the TSB on his desk and yell, "NOW tell me it doesn't exist!" "Oh, wow, I've never seen this before...we'll take care of it right away sir." Is that what you call "Customer Service?"

That is YOUR fault GM. Why doesn't your customer service site show TSB's and recalls? We paid for the vehicles, don't you think we should know when something is wrong with them? When something is wrong, don't you think it would be nice if we could assist the dealer in fixing it? You want the customer to be happy, right? That's what you say anyway.... If you want to blame it on incompetent dealers, remember they are YOUR dealers and its your responsibility to ensure they are properly trained and represent you and give the customers the service that YOU want. If they don't, the buck stops with you. No excuses.

Stop rolling your eyes back. I'm not stupid. I know why you do this--MONEY!

You enjoy having Alldata.com pay you for this information so they can sell it to us. Unfortunately, they can't sell us data on 2002 models yet because you haven't kept us in the dark long enough.

If a large percentage of owners are told by their dealers, "Sorry, it is a lousy design but there's nothing we can do to fix it. You'll just have to live with it" then you don't need to fix many thousands of vehicles...that saves you money.

It's too late, the word is out. I've printed out most of the TSB's and will make them available to anybody that asks. Sue me for Copyright violation? Go for it. You'll be met with a willfull endangerment lawsuit for letting my wife and kids drive around in a vehicle for which a SAFETY RECALL had been issued without ever telling me about it.

Get a clue, GM. This is the internet age. Word gets around. If you choose to provide poor service, the world will know about it.

Good day,

Jon

(Owner of a 2002 Trailblazer that has been back to the dealer in 6 months more times than my 96 Camaro has been in 6 years....)

c2h6o

aadland:

If you get a chance, can you e-mail (jrgodlaski@sherwin.com) me copies of the pdf files from the gm service site? I'm looking for the mirror wander issue and the license plate gasket. I had them bookmarked - but a whole hell of a lot of good that does me now! I should have went with my instincts and printed them out when I had the chance!

Thanks in advance!

-Jason

tlauro

if you need the bulletins that we no longer have access to, click my link below. Scroll down through the problems and descriptions first as those have links to the full tsb and bulletin posts like we've seen over the past few days. The other page of links is a little different. You'll see.


I have most everything up on my site.


http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/problems-page.html


enjoy!

tim

paisan

I'll throw up a link in Isuzu-suvs.com for when the Ascender folks need em.

-mike

gmdrone

I understand your frustration at not being able to access the service information site anymore. While I do not believe that we as a company are trying to mislead or hide anything from the purchasers of the vehicles that we build, there is a certain logic in restricting the access of this information. The first one that I can think of is product liability. I know that none of you would perform any modifications to your triplet that would endanger you or your family, but there are many so called "experts" out there that "know it all" and would do just that, unintentionally of course. As soon as that happens, watch out for the pinstripe suits.
Another reason is that the average customer's primary contact is still going to be with the dealer. I know, a whole lot of dealers do not care, nor do they feel they have the time, or whatever the reason they choose to ignore you and your complaints. This IS a problem that GM must address soon, otherwise we will lose many customers for no reason. If the dealer doesn't care enough about you and your complaints, my best advice is find another one who does! There are plenty of dealers out there that do excellent work, and are totally committed to making the consumer happy, I know, they are the ones that call me for assistance when they cannot figure out a problem. We work together to resolve issues as fast as we can. I know that this may sound like a cop-out to some of you, but unfortunately in this day and age of political correctness, et al, there are still a lot of us at the General trying to make you the customer happy, the best way possible. If I can help anyone of you out there, I will. And if I can't, I probably can find someone who will.

Ciao

Mark

tlauro

gmdrone

I don't doubt that you and others at GM care or have good intentions, and of course I can see a concern about the number of hits to the site....initially, but to not offer this bulletin information to customers is BS.

There is no liability issue about information being presented to a customer that can result in a law suite. All the consumer is trying to do is get their vehicle fixed. If someone modifies or tampers with anything then they are stuck...nothing new there. TSB and information like was accessed recently is nothing secret and nothing that could harm the public.

I just don't see your point. GM is just trying to save a buck and a bunch of service time...but IMO, they'd be better off just getting the vehicles fixed and customers taken care of. Instead those that don't know about this information get frustrated, waste time, money and resources of far more people than those that would be involved in just fixing the problem.

It would be interesting to get your counterpart at Ford or Chrysler involved in this to see what they think of the whole thing. Let them sling a few things around perhaps and stir some the pot to get GM going. Especially from a corporate standpoint. I'm all for exposing GM to some type of "hurt or pain" That's the only thing that will get them to change.

Believe me, I grew up in the Biz and nothing has changed. GM is a business and that's it really. People there are good but the company is just out for the company. Let them not forget thought that the consumer is who keeps them around.

tim

"....there is a certain logic in restricting the access of this information. The first one that I can think of is product liability. .....As soon as that happens, watch out for the pinstripe suits."

tlauro

another thought about the tsb and site access...why don't we all look at this as a chance for GM to "raise the bar" so to speak.

let the consumer have access to this information freely. show the world that there is nothing to fear and that your main focus is getting the customer taken care of and in vehicles that are closer to perfect than the other makers.

Anyone here able to carry a message to the other makers? Let them know what happened? They probably do the same thing...shield the customer from the info for the same reason. Let's see if they move on this in any way. At least let's get the pot stirring.

gmdrone

Tim you raise some interesting points. I would have no problem with allowing access to the tsb site, and you are correct in that the only thing we are trying to do here is to sell cars. That's how I and the others get paid. I have worked for the General for 20+ years, and I am no stranger to daily, weekly, and monthly changes in policy. One of these days we will (hopefully) get a Customer service chief who willl try to KEEP the customers that we have, not just induce peopole to buy new.

Regards,
Mark

tlauro

make it so then. who shut it down and why? how can we have access to it?

you mentioned that you could help or find out someone who can if you're not able. I'd like to take you up on that offer.

where is the GM Official that can make that happen? No better place than on Edmunds to put that out there.

your thoughts?

"I would have no problem with allowing access to the tsb site"

paisan

It's kinda funny no one is concerned about the liability if you buy the Hanes manuals and/or order the TSBs from alldata (all money generating avenues) but are all worried about liability if they give it to you freely. Amazing!

-mike

tlauro

just a matter of time before that comes back to the world of the corrupt too.

how difficult do you think it would be to pay a tech with a log in $2-5 per tsb ?

have a need....email someone who calls a buddy at a dealer...he looks it up and collects the $$ easy to do. hard to coordinate from a large group, but not impossible.

believe me....in the near future the information will only be posted on my site and a list of emails to people I can trust and know well. where I get the information will never leave via my connections

pauleul

And self named even. Don't get mad, just couldn't pass up a chance for a little jab (RE: gmdrone's personal profile).

Wow, things have been pretty busy here since I shutdown last night! I would agree with gmdrone in that the info available to us low life customers stupid enough to buy GM products (another jab for all of us) should not include all the details and pictures of how to make the repairs. That will encourage many of us to do it ourselves, which probably isn't good for GM or the customer.

Other than that, I would say the brain power at GM is running on 2 cylinders. The customers should not only have access to all the problems learned and that TSB's and fixes exist, but actually be encouraged to do the internet research when calling the customer service number. We as customers would be much happier if we could get our problems quickly resolved by assisting our local dealers. The dealers and GM should be able to see the savings they would gain by getting the problem fixed the first time in. Yes, it would cause some to ask for a fix that wasn't needed or not needed yet. But everyone should be willing to admit it does level the playing field somewhat. Dealers still aren't going to get excited about doing warranty work, they don't make much if anything doing it. They won't have any problem culling out the crazys who don't really need a fix.

I agree with tlauro, this is a great opportunity for car manufactures to be innovative and provide some of what they keep saying they want to provide and don't. A much better investment than the stupid surveys that nobody pays any attention to anyway.

tlauro quote: "let the consumer have access to this information freely. show the world that there is nothing to fear and that your main focus is getting the customer taken care of and in vehicles that are closer to perfect than the other makers."

BTW Tim, I hope you have a good lawyer. I would expect GM biggies have nothing better to do than to come after you for copyright infringement. Hey, maybe then we can get this on national news and watch the whole thing backfire on GM. ;>)

tlauro

I have most pulled from the site until later today, however will link them back up tonight when I have time to link the pages back together. No time earlier.

Copyright Infringement....they'd be best just using time and money to fix the vehicles out there. There are enough Urinary Olympic Events in the world.

"BTW Tim, I hope you have a good lawyer. I would expect GM biggies have nothing better to do than to come after you for copyright infringement. Hey, maybe then we can get this on national news and watch the whole thing backfire on GM. ;>) "

paisan

I'm sure that the judge will rule that GM can get all the money you have made off them. Which is zero

-mike

pauleul

Tim, your site is great! You are obviously very talented. If you ever decide to move to the Pacific Northwest and are looking for an IS job, let me know.

You mentioned a problem with your Bose. When freedom still existed, and I was perusing through TSB's, I saw one that said GM was aware of intermitent problems that could not be duplicated and advised dealers to swap out the unit. This might apply to you if you are still experiencing any problems.

Sure glad I didn't have my license plate yet when I sent you that picture of chipping paint on the tailgate. GM might of been able to identify me also and put a hit man on me like there going to do to you. For some reason, "David and Goliath" and "The mouse that roared" keeps coming to mind. Keep us posted, I'm sure you'll be hearing from the "General".

paisan

Tim, we can always arrange for some "protection" for yah. Hee hee. It was funny at the NY Autoshow, my buddy's and I would shove one guy into the trunk of all the full-sized luxo cars to see how many bodies we could fit in there. The hand-models and reps were quite amused by this!

The winner was the Town-car, with the Benz and LS430 close 2nds. The new 7 series BMW was the worst!

-mike

hardhawk

As an attorney and an Envoy owner, I want to have access to the TSB's, if for no other reason than to be able to share them with my dealer if they apply to my Envoy. Some have and some have not. I live in a rural area and my dealer is small, but concerned about me being happy. If I learn of news before they do, they appreciate me forwarding it to them so they can give better customer service. Am I going to sue GM if they let me have access? Of course not. Good customer service and ultimately good risk management practice is to get the information out there. The damages, especially punitive damages, add up fast when juries find out that the info was available but the company hid and/or sat on it. Of course, GM in the past is a prime example of the worst risk management, that being NO risk of management!

lexus_burner

My dealer said he was unaware of the licn plate
issue until I took it to them. Now, they are going to fix the DEFECT as soon as they get parts
ordered in. I see NOTHING wrong with the consumer
being aware of service issues on either a
prospective vehicle, or one they currently own.
I've had NOTHING but FORDS since 1985. I now
have a 2002 TB. Maybe I should have bought an
Expedition.....? What do you BOZO's in Detroit
think of my next purchase being anywhere BUT a
GM dealership? I think GM only wants to cover
their butt's and try to limit our knowledge of
known problems so they won't have to dip into
their corporate bottom line to pay for warranty
(go ahead say it " FREE") repairs...
My inpression is that they are only trying to
make the "impression" that they care and want
quality service for their customers. Otherwise
they would be bending over backwards to make sure
we are ALL SATISFIED RETURNING customers...

'nuff said...

tlauro

Thanks hardhawk. Very well stated. it would be a pretty cold Day for GM should I have not heard about the issues with my TB and had something bad happen.

How many people have had their TB just stall on the highway? How long before someone stalls, loses all power and wrecks? Bet for sure there will be a lawsuit on that one and I hope for GM's sake they don't have a tsb that hasn't been posted or made into recall.

We all download, review and read stuff on the internet from so many places, who knows what came from where. Heck, the photo I have on my opening page is from GM...but of the 11k + hits on my main page, over 1/2 have visited my TB site....free advertising. If they ask me to remove it, show the proper documentation and legal BS, then fine...my wife, an attorney as wel can advise me to seek councel or what not and or remove it. It's up to GM to make me happy and use my free speach and right to show the truck in a good or bad light.

Any infringement by any of us is most likely by accident.

pauleul

You sound like you just spent a couple of hours in your TB and your back is acting up again! A little testy and wound up.

My bet is GM management sits back and laughs at what gets said here. All the while they are flicking through the bundles of money, counting up them profits.

Worst thing is, most of us will still say we like our trucks and wouldn't want to get rid of them. Guess we are getting what we deserve.

I too have been driving Fords, rollover Exploders since '91 (3 of them). All problems were minor and I experienced numerous recalls for things that I wouldn't even condsider a problem. This is my first GM product in almost 20 years. Time will tell if it is the last. Right now, I'll still keep it. How does that saying go... Stupid is as stupid does?

tidester

We might have sought out a nicer word! :-)

tidester
Host
SUVs

johntr

I saw your post & didn't see any response, so here's my two cents...

The driver preferences are not recalled by the key, rather, the remote fob. The fob has the designation of Driver 1 & Driver 2 on the back. I've verified the recall by using my fob (#1) to open and start the vehicle & while the engine was running pressed the unlock on my wifes fob (#2). The radio & HVAC settings changed instantly - I don't have the memory seats, so I didn't have any change for that.

Therefore I conclude the key has no internal memory recall information for different driver preferences.

Hope this helps...
John

- - - -
#5088 of 5194 Drvier Memory Problem by icojones Apr 21, 2002 (06:48 pm)
Every time I start my TB LTZ, the information panel (and non-seat/mirror memory settings) automatically go to Driver 1. The seats and mirrors do not go to the driver 1 position, just all of the DIC settings. The memory seat recall options are off, as my wife & I share a single key.

Do the driver settings always switch to correspond with the key?

Thanks.

aadland

Thanks for the response. As a Boeing employee I know how one guy trying to change a corporate policy might as well be pissing in the wind....

That said, you know the liability excuse is BS. As was said above, year from now we'll be able to buy the information from Alldata.com. We'd rather not have to wait a year to get our vehicles fixed.... We shouldn't need to tell the dealers how to fix our vehicles, but in many cases we do.

If you really want to help, post some email addresses of the "guys at the top" in customer service. Sharing horror storys of poor service with each other might make us feel better but the only way to change things is to share them with the people that can do something about it.

For example, I'd like to know who to talk to at GM about a Safety Recall that should have been done while my vehicle was sitting on the lot before I bought it not being done. They're worried about liability? Somebody should give that dealer a serious talking to. Does GM hold their dealers accountable for such things (or at least attempt to)? If so, how do I help them do it?

dshepherd3

As a former GM employee/Service MGR., I believe that the NHSTA requires that new car MFG make available to the public any TSB that pertains specifically to the vehicle they own, I seem to remember we could charge some one a nominal fee for accessing and copying the documents, which I personally did not do, we did it for free, obviously if they requested a specific TSB for a certain problem this narrowed the issue greatly.

paisan

"Worst thing is, most of us will still say we like our trucks and wouldn't want to get rid of them. Guess we are getting what we deserve. "

That is the exact message that has sent Toyota and Honda quality down the tubes in the past 5 years or so. They have come to realize that even cutting corners it won't cost them sales so why bother doing it right? It's a shame though.

-mike

aadland

I forgot to mention, thanks so much for saving and hosting all that stuff Tim! Over the next year or so I'll bet thousands of people will be helped by your site. That reminds me, I need to put a link to it on my site....

cmack4

I can see GM wanting to keep us out of the service manual and what not, but not disclosing TSB's? That's just ridiculous! They come out with a new $5 filter to deaden sound in the Air Suspension sytem... It comes standard on the new Triplets. So what do they do? Issue a TSB that none of the current owners can access to let them know that a fix is available. Same with the gasket problem... Do you think that the dealer is going to remember that I complained about the gasket 3 months ago when I bought the vehicle, and now give me a call saying that it's available? GM should be making as much information available as possible and leaving the determination up to the dealers as to whether the TSB's apply! No one cares as much about your problems as you do... I don't care how good a company's customer service is! It's bad policy on GM's part, and it really makes me wonder about the company as a whole! If it's a money saving gimmick, then you must question their rationale. Do you really think you're going to keep customers that have legitimate issues if you don't do everything in your power to fix these issues? You shouldn't have to keep going to the dealer and complaining to see if a TSB has been released... or pay an administration fee for something that can be made freely available by the internet! I agree with Tim, step up GM and show the world you really do stand behind your products!

tlauro

The NHSTA is not a bad place to start.

In the mean time, I have once again gained access to the si2000 system........this time with full access....so eat that GM!

The only downside is that my access is not from my house and at another location that I must travel 20 minutes to.

I plan on putting together a list of issues and VIN's to run information requests on.

What really burns me as I'm a former employee and from a family that was in the Business and still had to push and pull the head of the GM Rep in Chicago to get my mirrors resolved.

Heck, I was one of the very first ones to work with GM to show them the problem even existed! So I too know all too well that we as customers have to teach the dealers how to fix things.

Hello GM...your dealers don't even know this stuff exists....or at least how to resolve the problems even when the few that do really care try. Sometimes they do look to us to bring things to their attention. Just ask my dealer how many customers and other dealers even have called them to figure the mirror thing out.

cmack4

Per the "You, Your Vehicle and the Technical Service Bulletin (TSB)" article Edmunds has under the category Ownership...

Hyundai, Volkswagen and Audi already make TSB's freely available to their owners via the web... Refreshing to know that there are some companies that feel they have nothing to hide!

ficuss

gmdrone:
Thanks for the reply. When I asked a few days ago if anyone from G.M. was reading these posts. I had no idea someone would actually respond.
I have had my share of problems with the TB LTZ. A blown engine being the worst. I have been relatively happy with my dealers actions regarding the problems. I can say though that when I walked into the service shop with a TSB in hand they were quicker to agree that a problem existed.
I have cautioned others about modifying the electronics in these triplets because of the possible interaction with controls. That having been said, I feel that G.M. has here an invaluable resource for identifying problems and also finding the exact situations wherein the problems occur. The posters at this forum are willing to share with anyone willing to listen their experiences and comments. They share information which can save your tech. department hours if not months of research time. View us as a resource of learning, not as a pain in the neck. Isn't it better to hear gripes from an unofficial forum rather than a court of law? I have 36 years of electronics experience, I think I can explain a problem in terms any service tech. can and should understand. It is G.M.'s choice to listen or not.

Frank

tblazed

" there is a certain logic in restricting the access of this information. The first one that I can think of is product liability. I know that none of you would perform any modifications to your triplet that would endanger you or your family, but there are many so called "experts" out there that "know it all" and would do just that, unintentionally of course. As soon as that happens, watch out for the pinstripe suits."

Unless you have $120 for the service manual, or $20 for the TSBs? - THEN it's OK??

"Another reason is that the average customer's primary contact is still going to be with the dealer. "

Fine. Obviously the dealer has special equipment to do things I can't do myself. If dealers only had MY vehicle to be concerned about maybe they would have time to know all the latest fixes. If, for example, the customer is savvy enough to shop Chevrolet.com and search the internet for the vehicle he wants, then that customer (or ANY customer with a computer and internet access, for that matter) ought to have F R E E access to all the text and information contained in TSBs that pertain to his vehicle. Maybe use part of the vin number as a log-in, so we INFORMED customers can go to the dealer and have fixes performed without multiple trips, lots of shrugging and "they all do that's", hours of time wasted (time is money in my business), days without the vehicle, aggrevation, bad press and talk on internet chat boards, and so on.

I am just thankful that in over 3 months of ownership my TB has not seen a dealership since the day I bought it. (knocking on any available wood as I type that!!)

tlauro

funny how the real good section of the site, where you could plug in your individual VIN and get the most out of the system isn't something we have access to.

putting in a VIN would yeild about the most accurate return on what tsb's or other issues that we should know about. but all that makes too much sense for GM. you would think they would want to have the consumer do the homework ahead of time and bring the information to the dealer so they can resolve things in a timely manner.

instead they would rather screw the dealers and say you have "x" number of warranty hours to bill towards finding a fix and you eat the rest. actually, then the tech eats it as they aren't always paid on the remaining time they spend fixing the isses.

pretty ironic that I love the truck as a whole, yet the little things are what make us all mad.

gam2

Personally, I don't want FULL access to the complet TSB. I would like a list of them with a description of what the problem is and what the fix is. I don't need detailed instructions on how to fix the problem.
This would allow me to give the dealer some idea of what the problem is and it would also provide me with peace of mind that the dealer isn't giving me the shaft. Either way, it WILL bolster customer satisfaction, something GM could use more of these days. Nothing is more frustrating than having a problem with a brand new, $35,000 vehicle. Nothing except not getting straight answers on getting it fixed. An honest "I don't know, I will have to check into that" is much better than getting the run around. Of course building it right in the first place could eliminate most of these problems, but that's another story for another day.

GAM2

dshepherd3

I feel as a former GM service Mgr., I have to throw my 2 cents in here. All the TSB's are avaialable very conveniently to all dealer personnnel and there is no excuse for not correcting or addressing an owners concerns, if a fix is available. Obviously an inexperienced or unintersted Service Advisor may blow off the complaint for fear of writing it down on the r.o., then having to deal with consequences when the service dept. can't fix the problem. This a serious break down in service management in the dealership and unfortunately a lot of Managers are more business oriented than "lets repair the vehicle oriented", are you listening GM?
The service mgr where I bought my TB will follow up on my concerns, but of course he knows my backround, but this is crux of the issue, we shouldn't have to brow beat service personnel for an available fix for these issues, go right to the SM if dissatisfied.

sean48

Does anyone have any information on upgrades and/or new options planned for the 2003 Envoy? I'm particularly interested in knowing if a DVD-based navigation system (with screen) will become available on the Envoy. I am considering the Envoy, along with the Lincoln Aviator, Volvo XC 90 and (though it's really just a minivan with a snout) the Honda Pilot. I'd really like a navigation system, and I think the Envoy is, overall, the best package. Thanks.

stever

I can just imagine what you guys think about Honda's TSB policy - my understanding is that they don't share with Alldata (or anyone else) so you can't even buy theirs.

The NTHSA angle is a good one. Some have commented that they've requested TSB's from them and not been charged any fees, even though the site says that a fee may be charged.

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

cmack4

The NHTSA is a good site, but if you did a search, they carry about half of the listings that were on the actual GM site! And it's not just the new stuff their missing either. I did a comparison... and of course printed the stuff out

stever

Interesting - how are we doing?

The Edmunds Maintenance Guide

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

cmack4

About the same as NHTSA... still not all there!

noller2g

For a fee:

http://www.alldata.com/TSB/23/0223BFJ2.html

I had their $19.95 CD for my Lincoln Mark VIII. It was worth every penny.

Perhaps GM (and others) have an exclusivity agreement with companies like AllData.

You can go to your dealer and get this info free, or you can pay AllData to organize it and deliver it to you for a fee.

AllData has nothing yet for the Bravada or TB, But the Envoy has some stuff. Out of date to Jan this year, but their subscription service is real time. Get out your wallet, or go see your dealer.

Folks, it's about money.

Sure, it ought to be free, but it ain't. I think food ought to be free too, as it is a basic necissity of life, but it ain't.

Just be glad you don't own a $38,000 Lincoln LS. Squeaks and poor paint and Ford and the dealer say they cannot or will not fix it. Worse, they keep the car for a week, say they fixed it, but no change.

My new F150 needed a replacement motor at 34000 miles, and they put in a rebuilt motor and it knocked worse than the original.

My Bravada has been the best new vehicle purchase I've had since my 1983 Subaru. 5 New Fords, and all of them spent significant time in the shop for warranty work. Old habits are hard to change.

If you want perfection, buy a Honda Valkyrie...everything else is just transportation.

http://www.noller.net/greg/valk

WichitaGreg

peterout

So here I am, a proud and happy owner of a new 2002 Envoy. Well that all changed today.

I've had my Envoy (Forest Green) since Feb and so far have put on 8,000KM (5000 miles). During that time I have had 2 oil changes. I've also brought it for high pitch squeals in the front end (3 times). Each time I got the vehicle back there were more scratches on it (the dealer washes the vehicle after every service). Then I noticed chip marks on the hood and side of my vehicle after some highway driving. The paint is also getting rough and lighter under the rear passenger doors.

I brought this to the attention of the dealership which already spent two service jobs polishing the scratches out. The service manager admitted that they are aware of Envoys' paint being a problem. As a matter of fact they have been instructed by GM that Envoys should only be hand washed!

So I told the dealership I want the Envoy repainted. Nope can't do that! I'm told I should have put mud guards on my vehicle. They told me the paint is standard on the Envoy and that it is 'soft' since GM can only use 'special paint' that is safe for the environment. Yup.

So here my Envoy has more paint scratches (some down to the metal) and paint rubs than my old Ford Van.

So I told them either repaint it or take it back. What do you think guys? Do I have a chance?

Mr. Notveryhappydon'tthinkI'llbuyanotherGMsuremissmyFord'spaintjob.

marsha7

have placed the 5.3L V8 engine in the Envoy yet? I forgot the month that was supposed to occur... as we get older, the mind, ah, yes, the mind, tends to leave us...

iexplore2000

Actually, when I took the "Air Suspension Noise" TSB over to the dealership that's servicing my Envoy, he was PLESANTLY suprised to see the TSB! HE mentioned to me that "I have had several people complain to me about the air compressor hiss and misc. noise and I have hated to tell them that there was not fix for this." You see GM, sometimes it pays to listen to your consumers. I had TSB's for everything when I dropped my Envoy off with the exception of the "Delayed Acceleration" issue and 9 times out of 10, that will be the one that comes back with "Unable to Duplicate Problem" response. Something to think about??

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

2002slt

It just goes to show you how much most Service Managers really care about what they do. They don't take the time to do any research. If it doesn't jump out at them, they won't see it.
Maybe it's just that they're too preoccupied with quotas and personnel distractions. This is more the reason we should have full access to GM's service website. (Oh, the good old days.) I think someone else mentioned that we could actually save them money by doing the research for them. It may even make them better at their jobs.

On the other hand... If they just made higher quality vehicles from the start, none of this would matter. I only have the paint chip issue, so far, so I consider myself lucky.

stever

7,500 miles ago (last Dec.) I had a 60k service done on my minivan. Two days ago I changed the oil and rotated the tires, and discovered a stripped lug nut. I called my service manager and told him that they were the last people to work on the van.

Even though it's out of warranty, they barely quibbled and didn't want to see my log book or pile of receipts. That was $100 I didn't have to argue over, and they replaced the stud.

While checking in, the service guy had a mechanic go on a test ride with the woman in front of me in her 4Runner. She had a squeek somewhere. She hung around the waiting room, so I guess her problem was reproducible.

Pretty good service, so I'm inclined to go to bat for service managers this week (my dealer does GMC as well as Nissans). If your dealer isn't listening to you, maybe it's time to find a different dealer. (Attitude prolly helps a lot too - don't go "slapping" those TSBs in their faces!).

Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

medolark

Ispoke too soon in recent post. It seems my delayed acceleration is back. I am anxious to hear what your dealer comes up with.

aadland

Have you had this done? (Check and see if your VIN is before the cutoff.)

http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/pdfs/fan-tranny-power-tsb-831229.pdf

I'm getting it done Friday. My TB has always felt like a dog off the line compared with the one I test drove. I'm hoping this is it. It needs the programming anyway....

aadland

I thought you guys might like this pic:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jonaa/Ramps.jpg

Not bad suspension flexibility for a "Yuppy Mobile," eh? Could a 2002 Explorer with its travel-limiting IRS keep all 4 wheels on the pavement?

tjcishere1

I have just placed an order for the Envoy XL SLT with the 1sk pkg and running boards the best price i got was 37,100 i shopped around it was a pretty good price for my area im in NJ i hope this helps you by the way 8 weeks for delivery