Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

tlauro

anyone know the number for the fog light light bulbs in the Triplets? I have a Trailblazer LTZ and havent' crawled under there yet?

I'm ordering the PIAA Xtreme White Plus bulbs for both high and low beams today and will be looking into the other bulbs too.

tim

paisan

IMHO they are not worth the $. Stick with Phillips and Hella.

-mike

paisan

Not bad suspension flexibility for a "Yuppy Mobile," eh? Could a 2002 Explorer with its travel-limiting IRS keep all 4 wheels on the pavement?

I'm not sure of the travel on an explorer, but I wouldn't go showing that pic around saying "look at my wheel travel" those are tiny little ramps! Try stacking 2 or 3 of those ramps up

-mike

tlauro

Mike

I hear you....and would agree, except, I've seen them installed on a vehicle and when next to my TB, they are much whiter and much brighter.

The Xtreme White Plus are stock Watts so they won't run hot and look just like the HID's on the new Acura TL that I also compared them too.

I'll have pics and comments in a few weeks

tlauro

Pulled the Fog Light Bulb out myself before work today.

GE Bulb # 880 a real common bulb in case anyone is looking to replace them.

tim

paisan

Well compared to stock they will be brighter, no doubt, and they will "look" like HIDs if looks are what you are shooting for. I had PIAAs @ $70 and they couldn't hold a candle to the 80/100w bulbs from Phillips and Hella @ $30 as far as performance. Don't forget the way that PIAA builds their bulbs so they "appear" to be brighters while drawing the same wattage is to wrap the coil tighter, this gives the beam a smaller lighting area, but a brighter one. I'll agree if you want the bling bling the PIAAs are the way to go.

-mike

tblazed

"Personally, I don't want FULL access to the complete TSB."

A good example why we SHOULD have complete access to the TSBs- One of the bulletins I did get printed "On-Board Diagnostic Improvements ... #01-06-04-052" Reading JUST the 1st line one may easily conclude that this would apply to all of the triplets. However in the actual text of the bulletin specific VIN breakpoints are noted. I quickly determined that this DOES NOT APPLY to my TB. No time wasted by either me or the dealer checking to see if it applies.

paisan

http://goodtimescorvetteclub.com/images/accident4.jpg

-mike

previousamigo

Any secret TSB for the wind noise in the gaps of the side mirrors? I traveled 150 miles on the interstate yesterday with a 30 mph cross wind and the sound in the driverside mirror was painful. I tried roll down the window to pull the mirror in but then the window would not close properly. I had to pull over on the nearest off ramp to close the window properly but there was nothing I could do about the extremely loud noise from the mirror. I do recall seeing a post where someone had sprayed foam in the gaps of the mirror to keep the wind out??? I can not handle another trip like that one. My left ear physically hurt. I know the dealer won't be able to replicate because the wind must be blowing at just the right speed and angle.

Tim, keep up the good work and website.

gmdrone

Boy, I didn't realize that I would stir up such a can of worms! But you guys have given me an idea, so hang in there for a little while longer. I understand the frustration, and I also know that there are some problems that are definite on-of-a-kind that someone who works in final has probably seen, but there will never be a TSB issued on it because it doesn't happen to enough vehicles. I think that you should have access to all TSBs that apply to your vehicle, and the web is as good a place to post as any. The cost of a new web page is small compared to the cost of snail mailing all notices.
Give me some time on this one, like I said, I got an idea.

Mark

medolark

There seems to be two different forms of this bug. What iexplore2000 and I have is not the same thing mentioned in the tsb. Our problem is not related to the fan. My Envoy is well past the vin cutoff date in the tsb.

2002slt

I know that in Illinois, if you install these you'll get a friendly visit from law enforcement. I have a buddy of mine that put these on his Impalla SS and got a ticket within a week. They told him that the HID type bulbs were only allowed on vehicles that were sold with them. Are other states more lenient?

previousamigo

Check out the AutoWeek Online quarterly long term review of the TB and all the problems they are having.

dshepherd3

I corrected this condition temporarily by putting a strip of blk electricians tape across the top of the mirror across the seam. At some time I will seperate the housing and use blk RTV to fill and smooth the gap.

robert115

A few weeks ago, I told you that my TB needed a new engine. Well this week, while pulling off the highway into a rest area I heard a loud grinding noise. As I slowed down to stop the car I suddenly had no control of my steering. Luckily, there were no cars close to me. I stopped the car and got out to see if I could see anything and I see my drivers side tie rod hanging down. It had come loose.

The car was towed to a nearby Chevy dealership where the mechanic that fixed it told me that he had never seen one come loose and that he did not think it was possible for the screw to loosen and come off by itself.

paisan

Yes in NY our cops have better things to do than bust people for lights.

-mike

paisan

You might want to start monitoring the Subaru Owner's club over here on Edmunds, Patti is an SOA rep and contributes in a big way to the boards and has actually gotten some of our ideas (about 8 out of 100s) implemented in the new '03 Forester. Heck you guys own 20%+ of Subaru so you may be able to see what they are doing and implement it in GM.

-mike

tidester

Yes in NY our cops have better things to do than bust people for lights.

That depends on what part of NY you live in! :-)

tidester
Host
SUVs

paisan

I was just joking, generally they will only bust on you if you are: 1) a Punky kid 2) Speeding or reckless driving 3) following them and they are annoying!

-mike

tlauro

Unfortunately, the stock wiring in the TB is not of the level I want to trust with the 80/100w bulbs you mentioned.

I tried a set of 80/100w in my GTP but had to replace them after the first set of wires melted due to the higher voltage.

As far as the beam...the reflectors on the TB are just like my GTP. Didn't loose any width there so I'm assuming the TB will be the same. We'll see though.

I'll have pics shortly.

tim

"they couldn't hold a candle to the 80/100w bulbs from Phillips and Hella "

tlauro

Well, I did some checking and unlike my GTP and Alero, where I was able to replace the entire light...the Trailblazer is stuck with the #880 bulb which while common, I've yet to find a good quality white or yellow light to replace it.

Anyone with info, please email me or post.

tim

aadland

Don't worry paisan, I'm not trying to make the cover of "Monster Truck" magazine or anything with that photo.... ;-) I just happened to snap it when I was messing around. The ramps are only 6" each. I've never seen a 2002 Explorer offroading or try anything similar but looking at their suspension (the halfshafts run through holes in the framerails) it looks to me like they can't have much travel. Just trying to make conversation about something other than problems for once....

Medowlark, I don't know what to tell you. If you're past the cutoff it must be something else. FWIW I don't think my problem has anything to do with the fans either.

cmack4

I'm betting you could double those ramps and still have the left rear on the ground! I was really impressed by how well my Bravada articulates, and I don't consider it anywhere near an off-road vehicle! Maybe Paisan will be able to make a beast out of the Ascender yet?

mdey

I suspect the air conditioning problems are not related to the compressor, but to the baffles that direct air over the evaporator core or the heater core and to the various vent locations. I have noticed since my TB was new that I could hear the baffles moving at random, but typically when accelerating from a stop. The baffle movement was accompanied by the telltale hiss of vaccum lines moving air.

I haven't taken my concern to the dealer yet because it is so random. However, the other day the baffles randomly transferred air flow to the windshield vents when I had the controls set for the dash vents.

medolark

As I understand the tsb is about a problem with the fan actuating when it shouldn't and robbing power from the engine making for relatively slow acceleration. If I have that wrong, then I am interested in what the tsb supposedly fixes. If I have it right then I don't think the tsb is going to address my concern.

My fan has never actuated as far as I know, yet I have this delay before acceleration (when the vehicle is cold - only). I think that is exactly what Iexplorer2000 has as well.

jljackson1

Hi...I'm dealing with 2 differnt dealers on an Envoy SLT. One has a build date of 2-2-02 and the other 4-2-02. I kind of like the vehicle that was built Feb. better. My quetion..were alot of the common problems discussed here addressed by GM as of 2-2-02, or would it be better for me to opt for the vehicle that was built in early April. Any and all comments will be very much appreciated.

mkaye

Hoping that everyone was OK in that accident, but I wonder if the truck's front bumper said, "Smile as you go under" ?

ficuss

Just got my TB LTZ back from service. Mirrors do not move if they were not moved since last reset, and keyfob is used to unlock door. This is good.

Black gasket around license plate panel is good looking and should stop popping noise when panel heats up and expands and chips paint.. This is good.

Software was upgraded to address hesitation on cold startup. We'll see.

Brakes were mushy. they still are, service manager said other TB's were the same. Either I'll adjust to new feel or something (TSB) will come later.

By the way, dealer appreciated the TSB's I presented him with.

GM drone: Thanks for the follow up and future plan. I just hope you don't turn out to be a 13 year old with too much time and not enough cable tv channels.

Frank

mrau

...I don't believe GM made any significant changes to the Envoy/TB after Oct 2001. So a Feb. or April 2002 build should make little difference. Might look for the "license plate pocket" gasket though. They seem to be on the newer builds. Have dealer add one before delivery if it is not there.

Mike

cmack4

Congrats fiscuss! My dealer is going to fix mine on Tuesday. The service guys were really friendly. They checked to see if they had the TSB's on file. They didn't, so I faxed them copies. They called me back, said they'd order the parts and take care of everything on Tuesday. They even thanked me! I wasn't pushy, or bossy... I just let them know exactly what symptoms I had, and that I thought they could all be addressed by the TSB's.

gam2

Well the joy of new vehicle ownership lasted all of 5 weeks. That turned to frustration when I took my Bravada in for 8 different problems. That turned to total disgust when the most serious problem (binding in turns) could not be fixed because the transfer case part is on backorder with no estimated time of availibility. On top of that, the dealer wants my loaner back and wants me to drive the Bravada until the part comes in. I am seriously begining to disagree with this request for several reasons.

This is already the most troublesome vehicle I have ever owned (new or used)since I bought my first car in 1979. I have talked to 4 other triplet owners and every one has had problems (beyond the chipping tailgate gasket). Those of you with no problems should consider yourself lucky. Those thinking of buying a new one should probably think twice.

GAM2

jepping

jljackson1: My Envoy has a built date of 01/02. 1700 miles on the odometer and the only problem so far has been the paint chipping around license plate (Knock on wood). However, I would go with the one built in April. Good Luck!

tlauro

gam2....how many miles are on your Bravada?

less than 5k and you're in great shape for a buyback.

if anything....argue that you want the regional rep from GM (Olds) to put in writing that any related damages resulting from this issue are not to be seen as your fault.

not sure exactly what to state, but make sure that you get something noted officially about the part on back order. at least I'd want something.

or as I'd see it, put down that there is a serious concern for saftey as something bad happening with the drive train could happen resulting in an ugly suite.

just my pistols firing. tim

tlauro

jljackson1

One last question. The Envoy I'm seriously considering has an MSRP of $ 37035. My deal is for $3000 off list, then the $1500 rebate equaling $4500 off total. Is this a decent deal, or should I expect to do better? Thanks all very much.

shapiro3

Okay, I need a little help from you guys that have installed a brake controller on the Envoy. I need to install one by the end of next week because I will towing a trailer...I remember reading earlier postings about how easy it is to install (with respect to wiring...I know setting up the controller is a completely different thing) so I figured I would do it myself instead of letting someone else touch the truck. I need a detailed description of where the wiring is and how to get to it. Also, the man at the trailer store said the truck should have come with a pigtail/wiring harness to connect the controller to the wiring harness in the vehicle. I know my parents '02 Denali came with it, but my Envoy didn't...was it supposed to have it in the glove box or accessories package or do I need to buy it from somewhere?

Thanks for any help you can give me. I would rather not screw up the Envoy by taking off panels I don't need to mess with

quickdtoo

The Tb owner's manual states (pg 4-60) "the wires are located inside the vehicle on the driver's side under the instrument panel."
There's a 4-wire harness attached to a large harness under the dash to the left side of the steering column. Remove the lower fascia, 2 vertical facing screws on a Trailblazer, the wires have a white tag wrapped around them and is taped to the the larger harness. Tim

envoyenvy1

If you want to return your vehicle, working with your dealer is of course your first option and with the limited mileage shouldn't be a big problem (you may have to pay a usage charge).
If that doesn't work, use the following resources:
Better Business Bureau
Regional consumer affairs
Bureau of automotive repair and saftey (Washington)
I've had to go down this path before, everyone of these agencies require the dealer to provide (in writing) a response to your complaint and goes on a formal record (which dealers don't like). The Org. in Washington can revoke their license or initiate a recall if they feel it's warrented. If your dealer doesn't seem interested in finding a solution for you, make sure he knows what your next steps will be.
If you have a valid case and the B. of automotive repair and saftey get involved, believe me the dealer will be more than happy to satisfy you

gam2

My Bravada has 1600 miles. I can't really fault the dealer for anything. GM needs to get the part.
I live in Wisconsin. The lemon law here says 4 fixes for the same problem or 30 days out of service in the first year. That's one reason I don't want to turn in the rental. They would say I have my vehicle even though it hasn't been fixed. Another is I don't want to further damage the drivetrain, even if it is unlikely I would do so. Plus having my vehcle gives them little incentive to get the parts quickly. If GM is paying the tab for a rental, maybe it will speed up the process. Don't get me wrong, I like the vehicle (obvious or I wouldn't have bought it).
It's just that I expected some level of quality for a $35,000 vehicle. The rental car I'm driving (a 15,000 mile Prism) is pretty much flawless. And GM wonders why Honda is selling many new Pilots sight and price unseen......

GAM2

aadland

medowlark,

That TSB http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/pdfs/fan-tranny-power-tsb-831229.pdf isn't just about fan noise (although that's one of the things it's supposed to fix). There are a couple of things in the old programming that could hinder acceleration:

First is the delayed transmission downshift. I've noticed this mainly at slow speeds. Say you're stuck in a lane going 10 MPH (probably in 3rd gear) and the lane next to you has cars cruising by at 50. If you want to pull out into that lane you need to get up to speed fast. When you put your foot to the floor, it takes longer than it should to kick down into the appropriate gear slowing your acceleration....

The second is the mention that a symtom might be a "Cam Phaser Performance" code set in the PCM. That has to do with the variable valve timing. If the variable valve timing is calibrated incorrectly or simply not working right, power will suffer somewhere in the RPM range. In my case, I'm HOPING this is my problem. My engine feels plenty strong at high RPM but it feels weak at low RPM compared with the dealer demo I drove for a few days before I bought mine (it had the same axle ratio, etc).

That's a lot of conjecture on my part but it seems to make sense. Either way I'll find out tomorrow if the TSB works the way I'm hoping it will.

Since yours is past the VIN cutoff, it should have the new programming and this TSB shouldn't apply. But that doesn't mean that everything is working perfectly on your vehicle.... Have they scanned the PCM for codes? When they do, they might as well notice if the PCM was programmed after August 2001 or not.

aadland

Sorry to hear about your woes. Get on the phone to GM customer service. I can find the number for you if you like (don't have it on me). I had to do that with the mirror issue (ironically just a couple of days before the TSB was found here--that would have saved many trips to the dealer, time, frustration, etc....). The lady that took my case was very nice and was completely on my side from the very beginning.

If your transfer case is locking in the front driveshaft, the wear and tear on your entire drivetrain will increase probably 10-fold, maybe more. My dealer even warned me not to use A4WD on dry pavement (although it should be OK) right after we drove around and felt it binding (he didn't realize it was binding because of the wheelspeed sensor). You might not break anything this week, but when a CV joint goes out 1 day after the warrantee expires, you'll know what caused the premature wear. Tell them that is unacceptable. Tell them you're worried about the wear this has caused already.... I don't know what else to say....

iexplore2000

aadland...

Both medolark and myself are suffering from the delayed acceleration problem. According the TSB issued, I really don't think that it applies to our vehicles. I am not experiencing any issues related to transmission shifting patterns. Actually, she's getting better and better everyday in simulating my driving habits. Surprisingly, it seems as if my tranny has a direct link to my brain. It will usually downshift without much effort on my part at all and usually when I want it to downshift as well.
My vehicle was manufactured on 10/02 (I don't know medolark's build date) and I think that it has all of the revamped tranny updates applied.

I am in Columbus, OH for the next several days (getting my father's Denali rustproofed) and today I had the pleasure of driving my good friend's new Envoy for several hours. I quickly noticed that he does not have the delayed acceleration problem that a few of us are experiencing, I will try it again in the morning just to be sure? His unit has a build date of 12/02 and he has roughly 2,000K on the odometer? Oddly enough, he showed me where the expansion/contraction of the license plate housing started to chip a large portion of his paint! During the viewing, we were quickly greeted by a loud "CRRAACK," the housing was expanding right before my very eyes! I was amazed at the damage that it caused. Fortunately, I often check the back of my Envoy and I must be one of the lucky few that does not have the housing on too tight because I have no paint damage and no cracking or popping?

Unfortunately, I do not have an answer yet as to what the dealer was able to find concerning my delayed acceleration problem. Can you believe that they have had my vehicle for a total of 4 days and it's not ready yet?? I didn't give them anything too complex to repair, just a few of the TSB's, door panel rattle, squeaky drivers seat and the cold acceleration problem? I guess that just goes to show that not every service department is the same. I think that this new dealership where I had taken my Envoy focuses on "customer service" (even with a GM paid loaner car in use) and prefer to get everything corrected the first time. Actually, I contacted the dealership today in order to get an update and he had mentioned that they were awaiting several parts to arrive.

I will keep you all posted.. Also, I am having my dad take the gasket that I purchased over to the dealership for installation in the morning. After looking at my friends Envoy, I decided that I had better not risk any damage. Better safe than sorry I guess!

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

tlauro

The Xtreme White Plus bulbs are in and look great.


The difference is pretty noticable when driving. Nice to see white as white now. Don't get me wrong, the stock bulbs were great and the new ones aren't any more powerfull as I didn't want to risk the heat issues higher watt bulbs bring or have people flashing me, but the light is whiter.


They look great, and of course....absolutely NO BLUE Tint (these are not the punk kid blue lights you may see around imitating HID Lights) Thanks to Dennis D aka iexplore2000 for the help.


Now if I can find some nicer fog lights....883 37watts are what I'm after.


Check it all out here:

http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/piaa-headlight-stuff/piaa-mod.htm

richardc4

When I bought my Envoy in March of 2001 I was told there were only 3 in Arizona. I must be very lucky because the only problems I've encountered are a center console that's loose and squeeks, doors that rattle (possibly because of our poor roads) and a gasket that blew off the top of the windshield. I've told the dealership about these things and perhaps Don Mackey GMC will eventually be able to find a parts changer who can fix at least some of them.

azpcdude39

I have been reading this board for a while now. Haven't had a chance to read all the posts. I was all excited to get a Envoy because of the way it looked, but as I have read on, it seems a lot of people are having numerous problems. I don't hear too much good. It's very dissapointing to find this out, it's a good looking vehicle. Has anyone here had the vehicle with 0 problems? I've owned Toyotas myself and was almost willing to give American a try but now I'm really scared. I talked to a dealer and we were talking a really good price, but now I don't know. I am really looking for a 7 seater, looks like I will have to look at the Sequoia. My wife doesn't like it and I don't that much either cause it looks too much like a Expedition. This has been very dissapointing to me since I am really in the market for a SUV, the choices are out there, but I'm trying to avoid having a ridiculous payment for something I'm just driving back and forth to work in 80% of the time. Any advice? Anyone?

aadland

I don't know what others here paid but that's a better deal than I got (and I suspect MUCH better than most end up with).

The TB's on the lots here had a $3000 dealer markup (or "Northwest Market Adjustment" as they called it) on the stickers over and above MSRP--bringing the total for a fully loaded one right to $40K.... I went through GMbuypower.com and thought I did well to get around $2500 under MSRP. There weren't any rebates at the time but they had the 0% financing, etc.

Are you trading something in? If so, you've only won half the battle....

aadland

Good luck iexplore2000, I really wish I could help more but I'm fresh out of ideas.... I'll be interested to hear what your dealer has found so far (in 4 days he HAS to have scanned the PCM, right?).

mrau

.. I have had my Envoy SLT 4x4 since Jan, 02 and have 3500 miles. No problems. Fun car to drive.

Mike

bushski

Well I have had my TB for 3 months. Build date 9/01. I have put 11,000 miles on it. And believe it or not, I have not had a single problem (knock on wood)nothing, no fan noise, no wind noise. Am I lucky?

The dealer on the otherhand is terrible. I called about the rear gasket TSB. Mine does not have the gasket, however the paint isn't chipping either. They seemed really annoyed that I even had TSB numbers.

Anyway, I asked if they could order the $5.00 part before I brough the truck in. They totally refused. Saying that they have to look at the truck before the can order it. I told them I would be right down. But that didn;t work for them either - too busy they said. So as of now I have an appopintment in 2 weeks for them to look at the truck then order the part, then schedule another appointment to have the gasket installed.

I spoke to the sales manager, I even offered to buy it from gmpartsdirect and bring it to them.

Overall I am very pleased with the truck - the ride - the looks - the power. Just hope it lasts.

cmack4

If I were you, I'd go looking for a new dealer! I'm sure you can find another GM dealer relatively close that will be more accomodating! It's a frickin $5 part! It's not like your asking them to replace something mechanical, sight unseen...