I suggest you get a small piece of cardboard or something similar and carry it under the seat. When you need to fold seat up, place the cardboard between the seat and the console.
Paisan - I think we mean cold as in x hrs not being driven. the fuel line thing is a possibility, but I have never noticed any problem in reverse (backing out of garage).
I have a brand new development. This morning I heard the fan for the first time. I was wondering whether mine was coming on and I just didn't hear it, but now I know what it sounds like. I now believe the problem Iexplore and I have been having is probably related to the fan actuation. I don't know the details, but I suspect our earlier concerns (before we had fan actuations) were simply the tranny not being in first gear when starting out. It hesitated (like it was in third or something) then realized it was supposed to be in first, downshifted and away you go. Why is that related to the fan? - Not sure, except the fan is electronically linked to the tranny fluid temperature and maybe the progranmming is confused until it has gone through a couple cycles of regular start/stop. Ie it has to "relearn" things every morning and once the fluid warms up a bit the relearning is no longer an issue. Obviously, I'm guessing, but the fan actuation is a big clue in my mind.
I missed the start of this thread on cold acceleration, but as for the fan issue, it's certainly not a "learning" issue. The fan is programmed to come on at certain times based on coolant temperature and transmission fluid temperature. There's no learning going on. I believe there was a TSB out there that reprogrammed this, as the fan was coming on at too low of a transmission fluid temperature.
I thought I had gotten to the bottom of my fan isse, but it still comes on in the morning when it's cold sometimes. I think that is related to the fluid inside the fan clutch being thick and not it being electronically activated. In the fuse box in the engine compartment, there looks to be a fuse for the fan, so one could test this pretty easily.
Don't forget the fan probably will spin just from the friction of the engine (does it run off the engine or is it an electric fan?) even if the clutch isn't engaged to actually draw in air, there will be enough friction to spin it at idel I would think.
Yes, the fan will spin some even after fully warmed up just due to hydraulic (frictional) effect. The fan is mechanically driven with an electically actuated clutch- the clutch is controlled (apparently) by transmission (or possibly coolant) temperature. Based on my experience this morning there is a huge difference in fan noise when the clutch is engaged vs not engaged.
I realize the fan doesn't need to learn anything. However, it is linked to the trans fluid temperature (I haven't verified it is trans fluid temperature - someone else reported that earlier, I believe). I am merely postulating that whatever is causing the fan to actuate when it shouldn't (ie when the vehicle is cold in the morning) could also be causing inappropriate transmission behavior which manifests as poor acceleration when cold. (I'm not totally convinced that the fan pulls so much power off the engine that there is not enough left to accelerate). My "learning" postulate is related to transmission behavior, not fan behavior. Of course I don't even know to what extent the transmission is electronically controlled and how much of it might be based on "learned" behavior.
paisan, the fan is run by the engine. The clutch is activated electronically.
I'm normally a fan of the KISS method, but a thermo coupled fan is probably too primitive. With the electronic switch it's more accurate, and tunable. Also, you can program it to come on when the transmission fluid is hot.
I think it must be one hell of a fan though, as it drags substantially on the engine and is quite loud. I'm almost afraid to drive by small children and pets for fear they might get sucked into the grille.
Actually.. medolark is correct when he stated that you do not experience the hesitation problem while in reverse. The hesitation happens only when the vehicle's engine is cold (See post #5359 for detailed explanation). When I test drove my friends Envoy this past weekend, it had been outside overnight and when I placed it in drive, the fan roaaared for a couple of seconds while accelerating smoothly, and then the fan turned off.
With my Envoy, after returning from the servicing dealer, I left it outside for approximately 30+ hours. When I went on a test drive, the vehicle studdered when I placed it into drive and attempted to accelerate, then it straightened itself out with the fan roaarring until I reached the end of my block. In the past, I have only heard my fan engage a few times during cold starts, but for the most part, my Envoy is ALWAYS in the garage. I linked the fan engagement either to the new program flash that the dealer performed or to the cold temperatures from being parked outside overnight?
As a side note, Paisian may be correct when he mentioned that it could be a bad fuel pump or something similar?? But on the other hand, wouldn't I experience performance deterioration in general if it were a bad pump? For the most part, once she's warmed up, it runs perfectly!
Any other thoughts, suggestions, etc? I haven't heard from the servicing dealership concerning the backordered parts, but I will more than likely have them keep it as long as they need to in order to figure this one out.
I don't think it's a bad fuel pump. I've replaced them on most of my cars that I've modded heavily and when they go...performance is bad all the time.
IMO, it's probably a computer thing....without a thermostat, it rules that out, but I have a feeling it's an air to fuel ratio issue upon cold starts. with an electronic throttle sending input to the computer that is reading the temps, it could be a programing update that is needed?
how about comparing build dates of the trucks with issues?
I'll take any suggestion - My build date is 12/01. Also, My truck has about 2700 mi on it. This first started at about 500 mi. I heard the fan in the morning for the first time today.
Post #4873 looks like a possible solution - Can Envoyenvy1 reply - is it really fixed?
Things get stranger everytime I hear them. Why not T-stat?
Fuel Pump: The only reason I was thinking down that line is maybe the pump needs to be primed or the back-flow valve is bad? Although that would likely effect cold starting more than after starting. And if it doesn't do it in reverse that would rule that out as well.
I'd have to go with tim on this one also sounds like a bad F-A ratio going on. The no problem in reverse is weird though, that is throwing me. Could it also be a bad intake manifold gasket? I know we had some similar cold-problems on troopers that had bad intake manifold gaskets and were getting a rough/bad cold idle, once the engine was heated up, it wasn't an issue.
My guess right now would be some kind of ECU mis-communication between the tranny and the fuel delivery system. Maybe flip your rear seat foward and smack the ECU around a bit (it's under the 2nd row of seats) and see if that helps j/k
Mine was built on 10/01 and has 10K on it now. I just got home from work (90 minute drive in my Grand Am), so I am gonna go out and romp on the Envoy a little to see what it decides to do today. Also, I received a "incoming parts" card in the mail today from the servicing dealer. It looks like they have the actuators and something with "spkr" docoded in the description field. I may drop it off tonite at the dealership so that they can have a go at it once again! Round TWO!
Two weeks ago here in Michigan it was in the 80's and I found that my A/C would work for approx. 20 minutes then blow hot air. I had the dealer look at it last week and they changed the low pressure valve. I now get very cold air, and even the heat seems to be hotter (although that may be psychological ).
Still waiting on the mirror actuators and tailgate gasket. When those come in, the Envoy will have all of the issues fixed in one fell swoop!
My TB drives exactly like your friend's Envoy, which I think is normal.
This may seem like a dumb question, but have you tried changing the fuel filter? I've seen a clogged filter make a cold engine run rough (when the computer won't make up for fuel starvation). Just a thought... jim f
tjcishere, thank you for your reply. I have decided on the Envoy XL with the options I described in the earlier post. I do plan on pulling a tractor sometimes and a travel trailer. I have run into a problem. I contacted a salesman at a gmc dealer in Benton AR, but did not get anywhere. I waited all day for him to call me back. I did call him back, and he says he can not find my vehicle anywhere and seems uninterested in helping me or discussing it at all. I know that I may have to order it, and I told him that, still not interested. I don't understand that. I want a polo green with the dark cloth seats. My invoice came to 32,833 the msrp is 36,345. What should I pay. The cash back of 1500 or 0% starts again tomorrow. I also want an extended warranty of around 7 yrs or 70,000 or more. Do you know what I should pay for that. I don't mean to make you responsible for my deal, but I could use some help, so anyone out there have some advice for me? Thank you Pam
I am intereseted in one of the triplets and had my first look at a AWD Bravada. This is one nice SUV! What would be the cons about buying one since Oldsmobile is a short lived company.
pharmasea: Buy the Bravada, buy the extended warranty and join the crowd. Judging from your screen name, you have plenty of aspirins at your disposal, just in case.
About these fan problems and the apparent loss of power the fan engagement causes: What is going to happen this summer when the temps are much higher, the air is on and engine temps go a little higher? Is the fan going to slow us down on the road or what? I don't think the fan is needed when you are moving more than 20 mph, but what about when you are stuck in traffic on the xpress way. I think the ride will be miserable if you have to listen to the fan for an hour. GM drone are you listening?
Have you tried putting it into 1st gear right away and seeing if the hesitation is still there? I've only had the hesitation one time, felt like my trailblazer tried to take off in 3rd gear.
In post #4873 I listed the reprograming done on my Envoy. the symptoms your listing (cold engine, loud fan noise, lack of acceleration) were all identical to what I was experiencing. It's been a couple of weeks now and I've had no repeat of the problems.
Because these post numbers are kind of out of whack, I thought I would copy his post for you folks having the problems..........
Well I finally got my car back from the dealer as I had earlier posted. Wind noise problem and the fan noise/acceleration problem. As I mentioned I had to prove there was a wind noise problem (seals falling off) that was pretty easy, but convincing them about this fan noise/transmission/acceleration problem was a whole different issue.
I'd asked to have them check the TSB's, which they said they couldn't find any, then I faxed them a copy, which they said wouldn't impact the transmission performance and no errors could be found on the computer readout.
So I brought down about two pages worth of everyones comments (on this board) who were having the same problem. The service mgr. got real interested and suddenly they found a programming fix!!! Here's a copy of the service info/programming data for everyone......
# ID Description 1. 12575262 new software to correct case learn issue 2. 12575727 new calibration to correct problem 3. 12575341 new calibration to address delay in transmission downshifting 4. 09351581 speedometer calibration 5. 12576361 enhance ev fan calibration for cooling fan noise reduction 6. 12571574 electronic throttle control calibration
Not only did the noise and acceleration problem go away, it actually shifts better now also. I hope this can help others.......Your post were instrumental in getting the dealer to search further into this problem and finally get it resolved... Thanks everyone
Actually, i've tried a "bazillion" things including trying to start the vehicle off in first gear and still no luck.
Also, for the person who posted a suggestion about the fuel filter, I will definitely run that one by the dealership, but the vehicle has been pretty much doing this from day one. Medolark has a tad bit over 2K on his Envoy and he's experiencing the same problem. Mine has 10K on it thus far. I don't think that fuel is an issue, but I do use 89 octane.. not premium.. not regular 87 either.. But on the other hand, my Envoy has had this problem since day one which included a full tank of 87 octane fuel used by the dealerships, therefore I would probably nix out the gasoline component.
Well, as soon as my father gets home, I am going to take it back to the servicing dealership and let them have a crack at it for the rest of the week, in addition to installing the parts that arrived. I think that I will pass on the "Ford Focus" rental car this time around and use my Grand AM instead. Ha, ha.. Wish me luck..
You Wrote: "In post #4873 I listed the reprograming done on my Envoy. the symptoms your listing (cold engine, loud fan noise, lack of acceleration) were all identical to what I was experiencing. It's been a couple of weeks now and I've had no repeat of the problems."
My Question to You: I think that both Medolark and myself are not experiencing the roaarring fan issue, just the hesitation during initial acceleration when the vehicle has been sitting for x hours (i.e. overnight). The problems that you were having dealt with a "cold engine, loud fan and lack of acceleration," but would you describe your problem as a lack of acceleration or more of a hesitation (almost like a studder or something)?
Where I am trying to go with this is that I know serveral individuals had the "delayed acceleration" issue due to the fan being engaged initially. I don't think that we (myself and Medolark) are experiencing the delayed accel. problem, but more so of a hesitation problem WITHOUT the fan being engaged?
Note- I have now experienced a roaring fan in concert with the lack of acceleration when cold. Since so many others have had this sort of issue, I can't help but think what you and I were experiencing is probably the same as all the others although maybe slightly modified by who knows what. It makes me really suspicious that we are both having the fan roar now. I'm going to see how it goes for another day or so before I attempt to get an appointment.
Actually, I dropped off my vehicle tonite to the servicing dealer, but I've been giving this some serious thought and I think that I will take the morning off from work so that I can spend a little time at the dealership explaining what's going on to the service advisor. Additionally, I am going to give my service advisor a copy of envoyenvy1's "fan noise transmission problems FIXED" (posting # 4873) in order to gather their thoughts on this as well. I do have one question for envoyenvy1.. any idea as to why they would have to do a "speedometer calibration?" I am trying to understand why this would be necessary to resolve a cold accel. problem??
Medolark: Could you please send me your e-mail address to IExplore2000@aol.com. I am quite sure that we have hammered this issue to death and probably should correspond offline if you know what I mean. Everyone here in the forum have been of great help, but I think that we may have enough information to set the wheels in motion with our servicing dealerships.
Where can I find the build date on the 2002 GMC Envoy. I would like to research my vehicle for necessary TSB's. After reading the posts here the only problem I've noticed is the cold acceleration problem. Other than that, the Envoy is a solid, smooth, luxurious vehicle. SUV or not. It rides like a luxury sport sedan compared to the Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited we're turning in. In fact it rides like my Pontiac SSEi, only higher. I'm curious about the gasket around the license plate trim. Mine seems to extend out almost 1/4". Is that GMC's fix in the newest Envoy's. I just picked it up 3/30/02. On the sticker inside the passenger door, upper right hand corner it shows "03/02" Thanks.
Only cons about buying a Bravada are a possible decline in resale... Personally, I don't think it will be that drastic, but I don't plan on trading in less that 5-7years bare minimum. The second would be the lack of a lo-range if you are a heavy duty off-roader. Otherwise, it has a 5year/60K Major Guard warranty at no extra cost. It can also be had for about $3K less than a similarly equipped Envoy (which would also offset any decline in trade-in value).
First off i wouldn't worry about the trade-in before making a deal on a new truck. i think u should try to get the price to $33,620 for the Envoy XL Sle like i said the last time we talked u can get a 3:73 rear if u like,that would would help a little on gas also u can get a single CD and a casst. instead of the 6 Cd changer if u like. I"m sure u will have to order it there arent many around with that pkg i belive u said the 1sd. As far as the warranty my dealer gave me a price of $4770 for 7 yrs & 100,000 miles O dedctuble. i havent gotten much feed back from the message board on this issue some people say u can work on them to lower the prices. i think once u go to the 100,000 mile mark ur looking a alot of $$$ with the 0 deductilbe. i have been in contact with a company called Warrantybynet.com it is a policy that is backed by an insurance company prices are much lower and they cover everything if not more of what the dealer will cover. example for 7 yrs 100,000 miles 0 deductible is $1339 check it out also i would like to know if anyone had any problems with going aftermarket for the extended warranty. hope this helps. byt the way if u would like to send me email its TJCISHERE@ aol.com
I am curious if anyone out there has noticed a loud sharp wind noise that seems to come from the drivers side door when a strong crosswind occurs. Several times when I have been on the freeway and encounter a crosswind, I hear a very loud wind shear/wind noise on the door. It is not your standard wind noise, but almost sounds like if someone (a gremlin, perhaps)were trying to pull open the door while driving. It seems to be along the center pillar (between the front and rear doors), or along the window nearest where your left ear would be. Again, it's a very distinct, non-usual highway wind noise phenomenon. Anyone else experience this? I have an Envoy.
Don't forget this is a rather large x-sectional area SUV. If it's your first SUV you may notice wind noises different than cars. Perhaps the wind is getting caught between the B-pillar and the front door?
Check all of your weatherstripping/seals, including the baffle in your front quarter panels... you can see it with the door open when you look in toward the quarter panel. If everything is sealed tight, you should experience absolutely NO wind noise!
Just wanted to give an update on the A/C problems on my '02 TB LS. I left the vehicle at my local dealership all day yesterday. Quick recap: my A/C has on two occasions blown pure hot air. Of course, as expected, they couldn't reproduce the problem, which is not suprising since this has happened only twice in 7K miles. In fact, they were excited to report that my unit was producing 46 degree air. Someone in this group suggested that low freon might be causing the problem, but my dealership assures me that this is not the case in my vehicle.
Regarding the gasket around the license plate housing, they have ordered it and will receive it in the next day or so. They had a rather luke-warm response to my showing them a printout of the TSB, but I don't really care. They told me that they will be glad to research my A/C problem again when I return the vehicle to add the gasket, but I am not very hopeful.
My question to kudron and his A/C problems: Did you A/C just stop blowing cold air completely, or just that one time after 20 minutes? Also, was your A/C blowing hot when you brought it into your dealership (i.e. they were able to reproduce the problem)? I'm rather frustrated with my scenario. I live in in Louisiana, and 95 degree afternoons with high humidity are just around the corner. I have assured my dealership that if (and when) this problem happens again on one of those hot days, my TB will remain parked at the dealership until some sort of resolve is met. I guess I will just have to drop everything and quickly drive to my dealership if the problem manages to surface again.
If anyone in the group has experienced this A/C problem or similar, or seen any TSBs regarding A/C problems, please respond...thanks!
Actually, I asked envoy2002 to post this issue since both of us have been experiencing this. We are both past SUV owners (probably 4 per person) and the noise that we encounter is not a "normal" noise. Just as envoy2002 mentions, "it's a very distinct, non-usual highway wind noise."
The first time this happen, it literally scared me to death because it seemed as if the door was going to fly open or something, so I slowed down right away. The only time that we have experienced this is while driving at highway speeds. Anyone else out there experienced this issue?? Sorry to open another can of worms, but you all have been soooo helpful that we just couldn't resist! Additionally, once I get my Envoy back from the shop today, I will check out all the door seals as well.
I don't know if anyone else had mentioned this to you or not, but tlauro has extensive experience in this area. If you haven't done so already, check out his website @ www.timlauro.com. He has a pretty comprehensive listing of TSB's and information on what the dealership had to do in order to correct his A/C problems.
Didn't mean to say you guys didn't experience something out of the ordinary on the X-wind. I've just come across a ton of people on here who are first-time SUV owners and are thrown by the large cross-sectional area of the vehicles.
I've experienced the same noise on my TB with very high cross winds. The noise is from the top center of the driver or front passenger doors and you can confirm this next occurrence by pulling in on the trim of top center of the doors. Check your weather-stripping in these areas.
jack51pine: has your problem gone away so to speak after "pulling in on the trip of the top center of the doors," or did it require the attention of your local dealership? If so, please let me know so that I can call my servicing dealer and have them add this to their list of "to do's" while they still have my vehicle!
Hey, everyone. I posed a question here last Friday about discrepancies in pricing and packages for Envoys on gmbuypower. Here is what I discovered after talking with a salesman this past weekend. Turns out that there was a shortage of parts for the ECAS (rear air suspension), so instead of slowing production, GM chose to modify the packages that included it, and discount the package price by the ECAS option amount. If this is common knowledge, I apologize, just thought I would put it out there.
I took delivery last night of an Onyx Black SLT with the 1SH package, with the ECAS missing, using the supplier discount. Love it so far. After looking through the manual, I have a couple of questions.
The manual states that some models have articulating front headrests, however, mine do not. Does anyone out there have them, and does anyone know what the criteria is to get them?
The manual also talks about a rear cargo area shelf, which I seem to be missing. Does anyone have this, and is it supposed to be included as standard equipment?
Is the hitch a weight distributing or weight carrying hitch?
For all triplet owners, do all of your vehicles have that orange peel look to the paint?
All of the information on this site has been helpful, and now that I am an owner, hopefully I can contribute as well.
I have the same problem with a direct crosswind gust. If the crosswind is from the right the left front door is the problem. Wind from the left the right door is affected. In my opinion it's caused by the upper door frame flexing.I tried adjusting the door, but didn't have enough movement to do any good. A thicker door seal would help,but that would have to be developed like the new tailgate seal was. Probally will not happen
IExplore2000, I believe the cross wind noise still exists, but I haven't been in severe cross winds lately to verify. I concur with mytrip2 that thicker door seals are the solution. With light to moderate winds, < 25mph, there isn't a problem.
The hitch itself is not weight bearing nor weight distributing. It is the tounge (the part you insert into the reciever) that determines if it's weight bearing or weight distributing. Weight distributing tounges are more expensive but are safer for towing large loads.
Thanks, paisan. I guess what I was really wanting to verify is that the vehicle was ready for max rated tow weight 'out of the box'. I got the 3.73 rear axle, so I guess I am OK for 5700 lbs.
My Envoy SLT headrests (front seats) go up and down, but do not tilt forward/backward. I assume the manual is using the word "articulate" to mean up/down movement only.
Rear cargo area shelf . . . could this be the cargo cover, or either of the compartments on the left or right in the back, or the under floor cargo area?
My vehicle is Pewter, but I do not have any orange peel or orange peel "look" to my paint . . . actually the paint on the vehicle is great!
Congrats on your new purchase! Hopefully she/he will provide you many trouble-free miles and smiles!
As far as the articulating headrest is concerned, I would try very hard to see if you can make the headrest tilt forward and backward. When I first bought my Envoy, I thought that mine didn't articulate as well until I gave them a good TUG. They seem to be okay after that. If they don't, then perhaps the wrong headrests were installed on your vehicle??
Second, I am not for sure what you are referring to when you mentioned the "Rear Cargo Area Shelf." I do know that the vehicles come equipped with a cargo shade, secret cargo compartment on the floor (pull handle, lift up and viola.. just don't pull handle too hard.. some have "snapped off" so to speak ), in addition to a vertical compartment storage area on the right rear quarter panel.
Hi, I'm shopping around for a 4wd XL SLT and the invoice for what I'm looking for is around $39K. So far, I've gotten quotes of $36K which is still $2000 over invoice.
I took my truck in this morning Regarding the gasket around the license plate housing. My Envoy is Pewter, so the paint chipping hard to see and they had no clue. So while I was waiting, I walked the lot and found four other trucks with the problem (easier to spot as they were dark colors. So as soon as the tech came to tell me he didn't see the problem, I walked him to the other trucks and presented the TSB printout.
He seemed pissed that I had it. He claims that no one else had complained about it. Well, they ordered it along with new mirror actuators.
I'm glad this board exists, because these dealerships just love pushing stuff off!
Comments
I think we mean cold as in x hrs not being driven. the fuel line thing is a possibility, but I have never noticed any problem in reverse (backing out of garage).
I have a brand new development. This morning I heard the fan for the first time. I was wondering whether mine was coming on and I just didn't hear it, but now I know what it sounds like. I now believe the problem Iexplore and I have been having is probably related to the fan actuation. I don't know the details, but I suspect our earlier concerns (before we had fan actuations) were simply the tranny not being in first gear when starting out. It hesitated (like it was in third or something) then realized it was supposed to be in first, downshifted and away you go. Why is that related to the fan? - Not sure, except the fan is electronically linked to the tranny fluid temperature and maybe the progranmming is confused until it has gone through a couple cycles of regular start/stop. Ie it has to "relearn" things every morning and once the fluid warms up a bit the relearning is no longer an issue. Obviously, I'm guessing, but the fan actuation is a big clue in my mind.
-mike
it's certainly not a "learning" issue. The fan is programmed to come on at certain
times based on coolant temperature and transmission fluid temperature. There's no learning going on.
I believe there was a TSB out there that reprogrammed this, as the fan was coming on at too low of a transmission fluid temperature.
I thought I had gotten to the bottom of my fan isse, but it still comes on in the morning when it's cold sometimes. I think that is related to the fluid inside the fan clutch being thick and not it being electronically activated. In the fuse box in the engine compartment, there looks to be a fuse for the fan, so one could test this pretty easily.
I've emailed them about potential products for the Triplets...exhaust, mufflers and yes an insight on a new header.
Will keep you all posted.
tim
-mike
I realize the fan doesn't need to learn anything. However, it is linked to the trans fluid temperature (I haven't verified it is trans fluid temperature - someone else reported that earlier, I believe). I am merely postulating that whatever is causing the fan to actuate when it shouldn't (ie when the vehicle is cold in the morning) could also be causing inappropriate transmission behavior which manifests as poor acceleration when cold. (I'm not totally convinced that the fan pulls so much power off the engine that there is not enough left to accelerate). My "learning" postulate is related to transmission behavior, not fan behavior. Of course I don't even know to what extent the transmission is electronically controlled and how much of it might be based on "learned" behavior.
I'm normally a fan of the KISS method, but a thermo coupled fan is probably too primitive. With the electronic switch it's more accurate, and tunable. Also, you can program it to come on when the transmission fluid is hot.
I think it must be one hell of a fan though, as it drags substantially on the engine and is quite loud. I'm almost afraid to drive by small children and pets for fear they might get sucked into the grille.
-mike
With my Envoy, after returning from the servicing dealer, I left it outside for approximately 30+ hours. When I went on a test drive, the vehicle studdered when I placed it into drive and attempted to accelerate, then it straightened itself out with the fan roaarring until I reached the end of my block. In the past, I have only heard my fan engage a few times during cold starts, but for the most part, my Envoy is ALWAYS in the garage. I linked the fan engagement either to the new program flash that the dealer performed or to the cold temperatures from being parked outside overnight?
As a side note, Paisian may be correct when he mentioned that it could be a bad fuel pump or something similar?? But on the other hand, wouldn't I experience performance deterioration in general if it were a bad pump? For the most part, once she's warmed up, it runs perfectly!
Any other thoughts, suggestions, etc? I haven't heard from the servicing dealership concerning the backordered parts, but I will more than likely have them keep it as long as they need to in order to figure this one out.
Thanks!
IExplore2000@aol.com
IMO, it's probably a computer thing....without a thermostat, it rules that out, but I have a feeling it's an air to fuel ratio issue upon cold starts. with an electronic throttle sending input to the computer that is reading the temps, it could be a programing update that is needed?
how about comparing build dates of the trucks with issues?
tim
Post #4873 looks like a possible solution - Can Envoyenvy1 reply - is it really fixed?
Fuel Pump: The only reason I was thinking down that line is maybe the pump needs to be primed or the back-flow valve is bad? Although that would likely effect cold starting more than after starting. And if it doesn't do it in reverse that would rule that out as well.
I'd have to go with tim on this one also sounds like a bad F-A ratio going on. The no problem in reverse is weird though, that is throwing me. Could it also be a bad intake manifold gasket? I know we had some similar cold-problems on troopers that had bad intake manifold gaskets and were getting a rough/bad cold idle, once the engine was heated up, it wasn't an issue.
My guess right now would be some kind of ECU mis-communication between the tranny and the fuel delivery system. Maybe flip your rear seat foward and smack the ECU around a bit (it's under the 2nd row of seats) and see if that helps
-mike
Thanks!
IExplore2000@aol.com
Still waiting on the mirror actuators and tailgate gasket. When those come in, the Envoy will have all of the issues fixed in one fell swoop!
This may seem like a dumb question, but have you tried changing the fuel filter? I've seen a clogged filter make a cold engine run rough (when the computer won't make up for fuel starvation). Just a thought...
jim f
in the earlier post. I do plan on pulling a tractor sometimes and a travel trailer. I have run into a problem. I contacted a salesman at a gmc dealer in Benton AR, but did not get anywhere. I waited all day for him to call me back. I did call him back, and he says he can not find my vehicle anywhere and seems uninterested in helping me or discussing it at all. I know that I may have to order it, and I told him that, still not interested. I don't understand that. I want a polo green with the dark cloth seats. My invoice came to 32,833 the msrp is 36,345. What should I pay. The cash back of 1500 or 0% starts again tomorrow. I also want an extended warranty of around 7 yrs or 70,000 or more. Do you know what I should pay for that. I don't mean to make you responsible for my deal, but I could use some help, so anyone out there have some advice for me? Thank you Pam
Thanks,
Jim
tim
About these fan problems and the apparent loss of power the fan engagement causes: What is going to happen this summer when the temps are much higher, the air is on and engine temps go a little higher? Is the fan going to slow us down on the road or what? I don't think the fan is needed when you are moving more than 20 mph, but what about when you are stuck in traffic on the xpress way. I think the ride will be miserable if you have to listen to the fan for an hour. GM drone are you listening?
Frank
It's been a couple of weeks now and I've had no repeat of the problems.
Well I finally got my car back from the dealer as I had earlier posted. Wind noise problem and the fan noise/acceleration problem. As I mentioned I had to prove there was a wind noise problem (seals falling off) that was pretty easy, but convincing them about this fan noise/transmission/acceleration problem was a whole different issue.
I'd asked to have them check the TSB's, which they said they couldn't find any, then I faxed them a copy, which they said wouldn't impact the transmission performance and no errors could be found on the computer readout.
So I brought down about two pages worth of everyones comments (on this board) who were having the same problem. The service mgr. got real interested and suddenly they found a programming fix!!! Here's a copy of the service info/programming data for everyone......
# ID Description
1. 12575262 new software to correct case learn issue
2. 12575727 new calibration to correct problem
3. 12575341 new calibration to address delay in transmission downshifting
4. 09351581 speedometer calibration
5. 12576361 enhance ev fan calibration for cooling fan noise reduction
6. 12571574 electronic throttle control calibration
Not only did the noise and acceleration problem go away, it actually shifts better now also.
I hope this can help others.......Your post were instrumental in getting the dealer to search further into this problem and finally get it resolved... Thanks everyone
Good luck all JJ
Also, for the person who posted a suggestion about the fuel filter, I will definitely run that one by the dealership, but the vehicle has been pretty much doing this from day one. Medolark has a tad bit over 2K on his Envoy and he's experiencing the same problem. Mine has 10K on it thus far. I don't think that fuel is an issue, but I do use 89 octane.. not premium.. not regular 87 either.. But on the other hand, my Envoy has had this problem since day one which included a full tank of 87 octane fuel used by the dealerships, therefore I would probably nix out the gasoline component.
Well, as soon as my father gets home, I am going to take it back to the servicing dealership and let them have a crack at it for the rest of the week, in addition to installing the parts that arrived. I think that I will pass on the "Ford Focus" rental car this time around and use my Grand AM instead. Ha, ha.. Wish me luck..
Thanks Again!
IExplore2000@aol.com
It's been a couple of weeks now and I've had no repeat of the problems."
My Question to You: I think that both Medolark and myself are not experiencing the roaarring fan issue, just the hesitation during initial acceleration when the vehicle has been sitting for x hours (i.e. overnight). The problems that you were having dealt with a "cold engine, loud fan and lack of acceleration," but would you describe your problem as a lack of acceleration or more of a hesitation (almost like a studder or something)?
Where I am trying to go with this is that I know serveral individuals had the "delayed acceleration" issue due to the fan being engaged initially. I don't think that we (myself and Medolark) are experiencing the delayed accel. problem, but more so of a hesitation problem WITHOUT the fan being engaged?
Thanks Again!
Medolark: Could you please send me your e-mail address to IExplore2000@aol.com. I am quite sure that we have hammered this issue to death and probably should correspond offline if you know what I mean. Everyone here in the forum have been of great help, but I think that we may have enough information to set the wheels in motion with our servicing dealerships.
Thanks!
IExplore2000@aol.com
Thanks.
Seems very high.
-mike
-mike
Regarding the gasket around the license plate housing, they have ordered it and will receive it in the next day or so. They had a rather luke-warm response to my showing them a printout of the TSB, but I don't really care. They told me that they will be glad to research my A/C problem again when I return the vehicle to add the gasket, but I am not very hopeful.
My question to kudron and his A/C problems: Did you A/C just stop blowing cold air completely, or just that one time after 20 minutes? Also, was your A/C blowing hot when you brought it into your dealership (i.e. they were able to reproduce the problem)? I'm rather frustrated with my scenario. I live in in Louisiana, and 95 degree afternoons with high humidity are just around the corner. I have assured my dealership that if (and when) this problem happens again on one of those hot days, my TB will remain parked at the dealership until some sort of resolve is met. I guess I will just have to drop everything and quickly drive to my dealership if the problem manages to surface again.
If anyone in the group has experienced this A/C problem or similar, or seen any TSBs regarding A/C problems, please respond...thanks!
The first time this happen, it literally scared me to death because it seemed as if the door was going to fly open or something, so I slowed down right away. The only time that we have experienced this is while driving at highway speeds. Anyone else out there experienced this issue?? Sorry to open another can of worms, but you all have been soooo helpful that we just couldn't resist! Additionally, once I get my Envoy back from the shop today, I will check out all the door seals as well.
Thanks!
IExplore2000@aol.com
Good Luck!
IExplore2000@aol.com
-mike
Thanks Again!
IExplore2000@aol.com
I took delivery last night of an Onyx Black SLT with the 1SH package, with the ECAS missing, using the supplier discount. Love it so far. After looking through the manual, I have a couple of questions.
The manual states that some models have articulating front headrests, however, mine do not. Does anyone out there have them, and does anyone know what the criteria is to get them?
The manual also talks about a rear cargo area shelf, which I seem to be missing. Does anyone have this, and is it supposed to be included as standard equipment?
Is the hitch a weight distributing or weight carrying hitch?
For all triplet owners, do all of your vehicles have that orange peel look to the paint?
All of the information on this site has been helpful, and now that I am an owner, hopefully I can contribute as well.
JAW
Lyndell
-mike
My Envoy SLT headrests (front seats) go up and down, but do not tilt forward/backward. I assume the manual is using the word "articulate" to mean up/down movement only.
Rear cargo area shelf . . . could this be the cargo cover, or either of the compartments on the left or right in the back, or the under floor cargo area?
My vehicle is Pewter, but I do not have any orange peel or orange peel "look" to my paint . . . actually the paint on the vehicle is great!
Do not know the answer to the hitch questions.
Enjoy your Envoy!
As far as the articulating headrest is concerned, I would try very hard to see if you can make the headrest tilt forward and backward. When I first bought my Envoy, I thought that mine didn't articulate as well until I gave them a good TUG. They seem to be okay after that. If they don't, then perhaps the wrong headrests were installed on your vehicle??
Second, I am not for sure what you are referring to when you mentioned the "Rear Cargo Area Shelf." I do know that the vehicles come equipped with a cargo shade, secret cargo compartment on the floor (pull handle, lift up and viola.. just don't pull handle too hard.. some have "snapped off" so to speak ), in addition to a vertical compartment storage area on the right rear quarter panel.
Good luck!
IExplore2000@aol.com
A good site on carbuying is http://www.carbuyingtips.com/. It has a nice offer calculator etc. (see Chapter 4).
If you believe this guy given the 3% dealer holdback etc. I should only be paying close to invoice.
Any one else have ideas?
He seemed pissed that I had it. He claims that no one else had complained about it. Well, they ordered it along with new mirror actuators.
I'm glad this board exists, because these dealerships just love pushing stuff off!