Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • jwinkyjwinky Member Posts: 59
    You are absolutely right, you WILL know when it happens. I leave work and head to the parking garage. I get in to my Envoy, turn the key, it starts, and I feel like I have a jet engine.

    My Envoy was built in 4/02, and I have had it exactly 10 days and 360 miles.

    I don't know if it was robbing me of power, because I was afraid to give it any gas -- in a nutshell, the noise is embarrassing. This may just be a coincidence, but when I was able to get enough speed for the tranny to shift from 1st to 2nd, the noise went away.

    Also, because the fan is going bonkers, it seemed to prevent the engine from reaching normal operating temperatures as quickly as normal.

    It would appear as if GM is still searching for an answer. I have yet to contact my dealer, because I want to see if it will rear its ugly head again, but I am sure they will be hearing from me.

    I had a thought. I wonder if there is a bad temperature sensor somewhere, since it has an electronic clutch on the fan. Just I thought.

    This may teach me to not ask questions, as I feel I have jinxed myself. I will try to keep everyone posted.

    JAW
  • sweiblingsweibling Member Posts: 5
    Go to http://service.gm.com and click on Vehicle Calibration Information towards the bottom of the page. You don't need a password for this section of the site.
  • n2sjxn2sjx Member Posts: 12
    I had the same problem (also no running boards) the dealer said that they would not fix it... And it was caused by stones, etc coming from the front wheels. They intstalled molded mud flaps at $29 per pair, however they neglected to tell me that they charge $64 per hour to install them!! So now I have chipped paint and $131 mud flaps!
  • envoyenvy1envoyenvy1 Member Posts: 22
    Thanks for posting the web page. I thought I had included it with the original post. DOH!!!
  • envoyenvy1envoyenvy1 Member Posts: 22
    When I had the fan noise/acceleration problem I was also experiencing the high rpm shifting close to 3000rpm. I haven't seen this since the reprograming.

    Still no repeat of the problems since the reprograming other than two back to back days.
    I guess I just wait and see....
  • baitisjbaitisj Member Posts: 24
    Hey all --

    I hope that everyone is enjoying their triplets. I've been reading these posts concerning shifting speeds and PCM reprogramming.

    I'm curious what the normal RPM ranges for first to second, second to third are under normal driving conditions, and, if you got the PCM reprogrammed, how have the rpm ranges changed?

    I didn't think 3000 RPM was excessive for a six-cylinder engine -- my last car was an 8 cyl stick-shift Ford Bronco and I tended to drive it in the mid-rpm range as that was where it got the best torque (engine had 180k miles so I needed to push it to get it to go), so I have no idea what acceptable shift ranges on the six should be.

    Thanks for all the information!

    -Jeff
  • kspadzinskikspadzinski Member Posts: 2
    Hey everyone,

    I am hoping someone can give me some insight regarding some problems that I have noticed with my wife's TB LTZ (Build date 05/01). Let me know if there are any known solutions ...

    1. Loud Clunk when making a tight turn
    2. Loud buzz/whine noticeable from both inside and outside the vehicle (sounds like electrical noise)
    3. Cooling fan is making a load ticking noise when running
    4. Very loud wind noise at highways speeds (crosswind). Sounds like the door is pulling away from the seal. Not the roof rack issue.

    Sorry if these issues have been addressed and I am asking for repeat info, but with no search mechanism on these message boards it is hard to find.

    Thanks,
    Kent
  • sean48sean48 Member Posts: 37
    Does anyone know of new options/upgrades for the 2003 Envoy? I'm particulary interested in whether a DVD-navigation system will be offered. This and other boards have been helpful to me in narrowing my choices. I'm leaning toward the Envoy, but a nav system is a "must have" for me.

    Thanks.
  • dshepherd3dshepherd3 Member Posts: 194
    My wife found this by accident. Try turning the key on, no start, wait ten seconds, then start, I found the fan never comes on at this time by doing this, we'll see where this leads. The reprogram does not seem to permanently correct the condition.
  • icojonesicojones Member Posts: 61
    I put in my VIN and got a list of 17 calibration changes. Does this mean that I need all 17 of these updates?

    Please advise.

    Thanks.
  • medolarkmedolark Member Posts: 93
    It is my understanding that the list you get off the GM web site is what your vehicle had when it was shipped. Therefore, there is no need to update if these are the latest values. (Get a vin number off the lot from a very late build date and check that one to see if the calibrations are the same as yours).
  • medolarkmedolark Member Posts: 93
    I have tried this a few times and I think it generally works. I wait until all the automatic checking with lites coming on is done and the "service engine soon" light stays lit, then I start up. What I think is significant is that when the vehicle starts up, it goes through the lights again (at least some of them) and furthermore, it drives the gauges downscale. I have watched this occur and I believe that whenever all the gauges are driven downscale there seems to be no problem. Perhaps driving the gauges downscale is a clue that the computers are being reset (eg. if they are not reset they may use some "left-over" value from the last time the vehicle was warmed up and since the "left-over" is inconsistent with other variables this causes a problem). So, is it possible that taking a slow approach to the startup sequence permits this resetting to occur whereas just jumping in a turning the key all the way does not?
    If the vehicle is fully warmed up, there would be no need to go through the slow approach since any "left-over" values would likely still be acceptable. Obviously, this is just a layman's theorizing.
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    Hey Gang,

    Just returning home from a 3 day work related trip to Detroit, I find that I am wayyy behind in these postings once again.. BUT.. that's good .

    As things currently stand, the local dealership still has possession of my vehicle (6 days).. No answer to the cold acceleration issue and no info on the posted recall on this site. I informed my service advisor that I would stop over to the dealer on Monday and take the servicing technician out on a test drive in at least THREE new Envoys to prove that my problem is NOT normal. I will update you all on my findings.

    Dead Battery: I read message # 5585 from vplaza concerning his dead battery experience. I also had my battery conk out on me several times in the past. When I took it to this new servicing dealership several weeks ago, they simply replaced the battery and so far, so good! The interior lights are very bright in the mornings and everything!

    Security Light: I noticed that my security light does operate as stated in the manual. When I open the driver's door, the security light does indeed flash. If I lock it using the key fob or door lock switch, it goes to a steady light (as opposed to a flash). Also, I think (can't be for sure since my vehicle is not in my possession currently) that once I close the door, the light stays illuminated for 30 seconds and then it turns off??

    Calibration Question: I read the posting from envoyenvy1 that listed the gm website for posted calibrations. I printed the calibrations that were listed for my vehicle and will compare them against a new one that I find today on the dealer's lot. I just wanted to make absolutely sure that the calibrations listed on my printout are those only from when the vehicle was built and shipped correct? The listing is not automatically updated whenever the dealership performs a flash correct?

    Last but not least.. I wanted to share some info about a funny experience I had yesterday. Well, after my conference had ended in Detroit on Friday, I decided to cruise on over to the local Acura dealerships to take a look at the MDX. Much to my dissatisfaction, two out of the three dealerships did not have any models available to look at. All were pre-sold at full MSRP. I talked to a local dealer in Novi and he stated that they had 5 new MDX's hit the lots but were all sold. He also informed me that I could come over to view them if I wanted, so I did! I was immediately greeted by the guy whom I had spoken to over the phone. He was even more arrogant in person, constantly stating that the ACURA is the most "luxurious and highest quality vehicle ever made in this category." Well, lucky for me, a GOLD MDX had been prepped and brought onto the showroom floor since the deal slipped through the cracks, so this gave me the perfect opportunity to check it out. Of course playing the naive role, I often asked him to elaborate on stuff that I already knew about just to get his perspective which was completely arrogant and condescending to every other vehicle out there including my Envoy. BUT.. the funniest part is that I constantly had him on the ropes when I talked about the features of my Envoy that the MDX did not have. He was quite shocked and I believe that he was even a little impressed when I informed him that my SUV had the factory DVD in addition to electronic controls in the rear for HVAC and radio functions.

    All in all, the Acura was a very nicely built vehicle.. full of quality type immentities such as the velvet lined coin holder, etc. But I immediately noticed that it did not have nearly as much legroom in the front as my Envoy, nor did the seating position feel as comfortable as the Envoy. I think that Acura has a good product, but this is 2 years on the market, I believe that they will make some serious changes for 2003 to compete with the newcomers. Since I "wasn't allowed to drive the MDX without purchase commitment ($500 deposit)," I didn't have a chance to experience the navigational system but it looked nice!

    My .02 cents!

    Thanks!

    IExplore2000@aol.com
  • tlaurotlauro Member Posts: 504
    Funny story regarding the Acura. It was the same way when I looked at them. I started by looking for my new ride with the TL Type S Sport Sedan.

    I'd have bought it if they would have budge on price, but it's a personal thing. I grew up in the biz and I'll be darned if I'm paying sticker. Money wasn't the issue but principle.

    When I looked at the MDX it was nice, but not my style at all. The manager commented that it was also selling for list and above and that if I wasn't interested in paying that than I shouldn't even look for a ride.

    I told him, I wasn't interested and that I'll probably end up spending more on another vehicle and be just as happy.

    IMO, they can keep them. I understand supply and demand. Heck we sold Olds Aurora's for above sticker and held the same attitude, but at least back then it was a pretty unique vehicle for a 1994 ride.

    The MDX and TL lack style but that's just me.

    Anyway, good luck with your hunt.

    tim
  • mkayemkaye Member Posts: 184
    You all should look at the Honda Pilot forum. Many are stating that it is 'fine' to pay up to $2500 over MSRP for the 'honor' of driving a vehicle such as the Pilot/MDX. Although the MDX, and thus the Pilot are fine vehicles, I would NEVER pay over MSRP. They feel that offering incentives or selling below MSRP is a sign of either a bad vehicle or one that the manufacturer can't move. To be honest, I'd even pay MSRP for an MDX, but $2K-plus over sticker, come on, that's just the dealer ripping off the customer.

    2 syllables, 5 letters: Honda, Acura, Enron, just a coincidence?
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    Well.. that's exactly just what I did.. as I told the guy.. "I am jjuuusst looking.. trying to get some ideas IF I were to decide to get rid of my Envoy." Actually, I think that he was quite disturbed by the fact that I wasn't as excited about the vehicle as he was, in addition to the fact that I pointed out to him many items in which the Envoy had surpassed the MDX (i.e. DVD player, rear electronic HVAC and stereo controls, etc.). Oh well.. I am still fighting the battle with my Envoy.. I pray that they can get everything right because I do like the vehicle.

    Thanks!

    IExplore2000@aol.com
  • rspitlerrspitler Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone notice that the windshield washer does not spray onto the bottom left corner of the windshield? My 2002 LTZ sprays over the roof no matter what speed or if I'm stopped. Just smudging in the corner?
  • icojonesicojones Member Posts: 61
    I can't get to a lot to find a recently produced VIN (in order to check my software upgrades).

    Can someone who has post the VIN on the forum?

    Thanks.
  • pepper50pepper50 Member Posts: 195
    Here's a way to get VIN numbers on stock that dealers in your area (or any area you desire) either have onhand or are expecting in the next few days. Click the link at the end of this posting, and then enter the zipcode and the model you are searching for (SLE/SLT/etc., Envoy/TB/Bravada) Then click "search dealer inventory", and it will bring up dealers in that area. Chose one and then you will see a list of their stock. Click on the particular unit that best matches your vehicle (2WD, 4WD, etc) and another window will come up with the full VIN. But be careful you don't choose a vehicle that might have been on the dealer lot for several months; find the highest VIN you can. Using this method, I see that the calibrations for the new arrivals are the same as for my Envoy of build date 2/02

    gmbuypower.com
  • medolarkmedolark Member Posts: 93
    "Months ago I introduced to this forum the problem of hesitation with the 01 ML320, MB has acknowledge (finally)this problem, and replaced my ECU with a 02 ECU. They stated the ECU coding was unable to read the "blends" of gasoline. Apparently gas comes in summer, winter, and mixed blends. The ECU codes read the gas and sends it to the injectors, and what have you to distribute to the engine. In my truck and others with this problem this either wasn't happening, or the communication was happening too slowly.
    If you are experiencing hesitation (after coming to a complete stop) please don't take "no" for an answer - it took me 9 months to get them to listen to me. Each time they returned my truck they stated there was nothing wrong.....then I called Montvale NJ (MB CORP) and things got done."
  • sbindleysbindley Member Posts: 28
    Project Envoy has shifted to a new sponsor for the high performance exhaust system as the Corsa unit will not be out for a couple more months. Therefore, the new system is coming from Borla. It will be a split rear outlet system, and will be available for order very soon. Part # 140006.

    I will post photos and dyno results soon.
    Scott
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    I stopped by the dealership today in order to test drive a new Envoy with my service technician (and pickup mine from service). WE were quickly greeted with the exacty cold acceleration problem on the new Envoy that I am experiencing with my own. He once again explained how the vehicles are made to run "lean" and that the TAC (Technical Assistance Center) had mentioned that there might be some possible future updates coming out that "might" correct the issue that I feel is unjust.

    Oh well.. My hands are tied, I guess I may just have to live with it :-(

    Thanks!

    IExplore2000@aol.com
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    A journalist is looking for someone who bought one "twin" over another where the manufacturer offers two or more vehicles based on the same basic platform. (a Maxima vs. an I35 (or I30) or the TL vs. Accord)
    Did you know it was basically the same vehicle as the other?
    Why did you choose it over the other?
    Please submit your response to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, May 15.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • noller2gnoller2g Member Posts: 60
    I'm amazed that you could reproduce it in a different vehicle.

    Could it be just you. :) (take that as it was meant)

    I never put any vehicle into motion immediately after starting. I take time to fasten and adjust my seatbelt, adjust hear/AC, mirrors, and so on and to get settled into the seat.

    Probably at least 30 seconds, or more sometimes. During this time, the vehicle rpm will wind down from the initial start fast idle, and all warning lights and such go out.

    I always park in a garage so I have to back out, so I then place the vehicle in reverse and slowly idle out and down the drive way. Then into forward and away I go.

    I've never experienced any hesitation, cough, sputter, lack of power or anything else. Some times I get the fan noise, but it quickly subsides.

    Could it be traction control cutting spark advance cause it thinks your wheels are spinning?

    Could it be just a cold sputter? Impossible on a FI system, but common on carb equipped machines.

    I know you feel this is a major defect on your vehicle, but what would happen if you let it idle for a bit longer, say a half minute, or parked where you had to back up first?

    Just a thought.

    I have a 2WD Bravada, so there is no really good comparison. But I don't have traction assist.

    If you really want to dump your Envoy, I'll give you 50 cents on the dollar, as it looks to be a piece of junk. (again, don't get insulted here)

    WichitaGreg
    Loving his Bravada more and more each day.
  • jwinkyjwinky Member Posts: 59
    Greg,

    Since I am also experiencing this problem (vehicle is only 2 weeks old), I can tell you that I don't think letting it idle will make a difference. The very first time it happened (last Friday), I was leaving work. The parking garage I park in has the corkscrew type ramps to get to street level. While going down this, the vehicle is basically at idle (in D) and gravity is providing all of the forward motion. This was not enough to cause the fan to 'disengage' and everything go back to normal.

    I also had the fan/acceleration issue yesterday, in the afternoon. The vehicle had been sitting (garaged) approx. 6 hours. I haven't contacted the dealer yet, but I am making detailed documentation of conditions (date, time, how long the vehicle had sat, where the vehicle was (garage, etc), and what the conditions were (ambient temperature, general humidty conditons (low, moderate, rainy))). I just want to give them as much info as possible.

    IE and medolark (and everyone else this problem affects), I will be sure to post here if/when I have any new info. It is frustrating.

    On a side note, GM still has not fixed the sunroof/headliner issue. My "velcro" does not stay attached. Looks like I will be adding my own. Hey, is that considered a mod? ;)

    Other than all that, I do thoroughly enjoy the Envoy.

    JAW
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    Well noller2g.. unfortunately no I do not drive like grandpa, so no it does not take me 10 minutes to back out of my drive way and hit the road. As far as adjusting the seat, etc... umm.. I do recall that my vehicle is supposed to take care of the mirrors, seat, etc. So the only adjusting that I have to perform is putting on my seatbelt and maybe adjusting the HVAC and radio controls. Actually I am not going to go into further details with correcting your posting, but I think that you know where I am going with this one .

    Anyhow, several of us have been experiencing this issue. I have done everything under the sun from letting my vehicle idle for 20 minutes, etc. and the problem still persists. I guess the issue is hit or miss with each vehicle because I have actually driven several that do not have the hesitation problem that I am experiencing. Additionally my vehicle is a 4x4, not a 2wd.. If that was the case then I would have settled for a regular station wagon.. :-)

    Lastly, hmmm.. .50 cents on the dollar eh? Maybe you are a little sore because you probably paid more for your vehicle than I did???? Sucks to be you!

    PS: "(take that as it was meant)"
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    Some background - I had fan problems in the past and had my fan clutch replaced. This has made it much better, but the fan does still come on sometimes when starting it up. It's very rare these days, but I probably won't be able to verify the fix for sure until next fall when it gets cold again.

    Anyway, I had the fan come on the other day on a cold & rainy morning. I shut it off and pulled the cooling fan fuse. I started it back up and the fan was still on. This seems to indicate that it's a cold fan clutch fluid issue as opposed to an electronic issue. Not a big deal in this case.
    I don't know if this helps to clear things up or adds to the confusion.
  • dshepherd3dshepherd3 Member Posts: 194
    I tried turning the key on, not start, for 10 seconds and the fan never comes on cold doing this, even on an outside start at 35 degrees, not a fix of course but try it and if this works let the dealer know, it may help engineering figure out whats what.
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    I don't think it's a "not letting it idle long enough" problem either. I'm very much the impatient type... ie, I get in the car, everything set's itself (actually works now that the mirror actuators were replaced!) and off I go... total time is less than 10 seconds probably! I've never once experienced any sort of hesitation! I also have the Bravada... Is it happening only in vehicles with the A4WD setup? It could be programming related, since I'm guessing the ecm flashes would be different among vehicles with different transfer cases. If nothing else, something to ponder!
  • tlaurotlauro Member Posts: 504
    I just thought I'd chime in. As an LTZ owner, I've experienced it and today, pretty badly.

    It's barely 50 degrees and real damp and rainy. Seemed much worse outside after work vs inside my garage. I barely notice it in dry weather. I've yet to play with the IAT sensor, but it could be related to that?

    I really don't worry about it much. As I drive off for the first time, which is all that it lasts, I just floor it and take off a bit hard. It's always gone away completely after the initial take off. I don't even take first gear past 4k rpms. Thus by the time I go 1/8 mile down my street and turn right, it's gone.

    tim
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    I've also started floorring it myself in the mornings just to save myself from the light whiplash that my body experiences from trying to accelerate when cold! It's kind of funny actually.. you are bracing your body in preparation for take off and then you figure out that you aren't exactly going anyplace fast if you know what I mean.. Ha, ha.. Oh well, at this point, I guess my hands are tied. I brought her home tonite from the service department, took her to the touchless carwash and parked her back in the garage for the rest of the week. :-)

    IExplore2000@aol.com
  • missouri2missouri2 Member Posts: 41
    david you are right, leave the key on for 10 sec and it works just fine
  • medolarkmedolark Member Posts: 93
    I am experiencing fan more often now than previously. It doesn't seem to matter whether I hear the fan or not, hesitation is independent of fan noise.

    This morning, the slow start routine advocated by dshepherd did not prevent my fan from engaging. I didn't wait a full 10 seconds, but I did wait for all the lite checking, etc. to be finished. I guess I am far less concerned about the fan than the hesitation.

    So far I have not found anything except a little driving that will eliminate the hesitation. I keep coming back to the "learning" software in the machine. I think it must have to "relearn" to operate correctly every time it encounters an engine temperature less than some value. Why doesn't everyone have it? - Maybe Noller2 is right- the software is sensitive to driver habits. No matter the cause, the performance is totally unsatisfactory for a $35K vehicle.
  • mlauricellamlauricella Member Posts: 24
    Has anyone ever ordered a vehicle, and then changed their mind about taking delivery? I ordered a loaded LTZ on 4/26, and it is scheduled to be delivered to Joe Basil Chevy 5/21. I gave a $100 deposit on my credit card, but now im having second thoughts about the Trailblazer.

    I love the look and styling of the truck, but CANNOT fathom the thought of paying over 30K for a vehicle, and having hesitation problems and what not.

    Besides losing my $100, would there be any other penelties for not taking delivery of this vehicle?

    I understand that alot of people praise the twins, but unfortunately the minor problems that the twins are plagued by are really stressing me out.

    Thanks Mike
  • vindog45vindog45 Member Posts: 35
    Don't Worry.......i have one....best thing i ever did....have not had problems like fan, and hesitation....2500 mi....bought 02/02/02....build date 02/02......FINE!
  • dse1dse1 Member Posts: 22
    In the past there's been some discussion about whether the bravada has a different transfer case that the other triplets. So far as I can tell, it does (anyone with a bravada 4wd should be able to confirm this - you shouldn't be able to select 2hi/auto/4hi/4lo on the dash). Evidence: 1. bravada site claims it's smarttrak and doesn't allow selection of mode. 2. The HELM manual (worth the cost IMHO) for the triplets (2002 ST Truck) claims there are TWO transfer cases - a one speed New Venture Gear 126-NP4 , and a two speed NVG 226-NP8... one plus for the TB/Envoy... much nicer in 4lo for descending steep hills... Also, according to the manual there ARE several lube points with grease fittings, dealer should be able to confirm this... sweet- just had our first earthquake in the bay area in several years...
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    Mike,

    I can completely understand how you feel, heck I would be very apprehensive myself about taking delivery of a new LTZ after reading these postings, BUT just as someone mentioned before in this forum, "You have to take them with a grain of salt." I am sure that there are plenty of happy triplet owners out there that are not active users of this forum. What you are seeing here on this forum are a bunch of triplet owners attempting to discover, correct or address certain issues that we consider to be important in our eyes. In addition to the latter, there are plenty of happy owners posting to this forum as well! Personally, I think that I would be at a total loss facing the service department if it wasn't for the comradely that the individuals to this forum have for each other.

    I honestly think that the Envoy is a wonderful vehicle for the money. You cannot beat the feature content that comes with these babies! BUT.. just as the trend continues, in most cases, if you take the plunge on first-year models, you might as well consider yourself as a "personal prototype tester." This could be a good thing because based off of "popular demand," GM will probably make dramatic improvements the triplets for 2003 based off of customer problems, issues, concerns and research in general. Of course, for those that had the privilege of being "prototype testers," they will in exchange have some of the most common issues/concerns addressed (i.e. tailgate gasket, new calibrations, ECAS muffler filter, etc.).

    As far as canceling your order, you "may" loose your $100 deposit but that's about all that the dealership could do besides being upset and giving you the speal about them ordering a vehicle that they didn't want and have to sell. I've been down that road before in 1996, forfeited my $100, earned a couple of enemies at the dealership and just plain ole walked out. Give it some serious thought, not everyone is the same! Some complain loudly while others do not complain at all!

    Good Luck!

    IExplore2000@aol.com

    PS: If you were to ask the question, "Would you buy a triplet again if you had the chance?" I would respond with a YES, but I would wait for a 2003 model. WHY? Because I am too much of a stickler to just "live" with issues that bother me, but at the same time, I don't have enough time in my schedule to keep visiting my local service department.
  • mgbortulinmgbortulin Member Posts: 2
    I have noticed the same problem on the Trailblazer LTZ. The lower right corner never gets washed and the washer fluid sprays over the top and and on driver and passenger side windows. Other than that and the license plate paint issue I have'nt had any problems. My major complaint with the vehicle is that I must move the driver seat forward to fold down the rear seat. I am 6'2 but I don't think that makes me abnormally tall. Basically though I am happy with the vehicle. I traded in a Mercedes ML320 for the Trailblazer and couldnt be happier. The Mercedes cost about 10k more with less features and was an absolute piece of junk. It was at the dealer at least once a month for over 2 years. The worst quality vehicle I have ever owned.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    In NY/NJ/PA area it's illegal for them to keep a deposit. You can get it back up til time of delivery.

    -mike
  • mtrammellmtrammell Member Posts: 125
    Ordered my LT thru Covert Country in Bastrop, TX. No deposit required on this, or any other vehicle I have ever ordered from them. If I decide not to buy it, someone else will.

    Mike .T.
  • dieselnerddieselnerd Member Posts: 12
    It's true that several lube points are shown in the service manual but the illustrations are demonstrating "general" GM lube points and is not a depiction of what is actually on our vehicles. The picture shows steering that was on older Chevy trucks and SUV's. Ours has rack and pinion and has no lube points. I have been under my vehicle and can assure you there are no grease fittings.
  • jwinkyjwinky Member Posts: 59
    I believe in many locations, dealers are NOT allowed to keep a deposit if you change your mind. You may have to fight for it though.

    Hesitation. Is it annoying? Yes, the 2 times it has occurred. Is it a deal breaker? In my mind, no. Buying now, toward the end of the model year, a believe a number of issues have been addressed (running changes in production). There are so many other good things on the triplets that FAR outweigh the bad, IMO. I would think that a good number on this board would agree. Heck, IE2K has been fighting this for a while, and he still would buy one (albeit a 2003).

    If you think you will enjoy it, go for it. I too was worried about all of the problems that I had read about (just bought at the end of April) but decided in the grand scheme of things, they were mostly cosmetic.

    Hope this helps.

    JAW
  • pauleulpauleul Member Posts: 116
    I've always been told a dealer can't keep the deposit if you back out of a deal.

    I have the Envoy, build date 02/02, purchased 03/30/02 and just under 2000 miles. Have not had one single mechanical problem with mine (at least so far). The tailgate gasket issue was my only problem which I had taken care of within two weeks of purchase.

    I wouldn't blame anyone backing out of a purchase after reading the last two months of postings here. Keep in mind, the number of those having problems is actually small - they just post frequently about their problem and ongoing attempt for a correction. I think that's good. Keeps the rest of us owners informed of what to look for, allows everyone to put in their two cents trying to come up with a cure. Squeaky wheels get greased. Besides, it makes them feel better to know they are not totally alone with their issue. I know I'd feel the same and did with the gasket issue.

    Long story short, my suggestin is go ahead with the purchase. I think you'll be pretty impressed EVEN IF you do end up with some of the problems mentioned here. Eventually they will get taken care of (I think).

    Good luck and if you don't cancel, enjoy!

    Paul
  • bobed2121bobed2121 Member Posts: 70
    We just bought a new Chevy Trailblazer this month. We have taken it on a few 300+ mile trips and I can't begin to express how much we love this vehicle. Everything works fine. No wind noise issues, fan problems, etc etc that I have seen displayed in here. I don't know if I'm just lucky or what but every vehicle I've owned Ford, Chevy, Mercury, Pontiac, Buick, and a few Yamaha's have given me zero problems. Just the usual wear and tear. For those that are doing the research of what to buy I can, without bias, recommend the Chevy Trailblazer.
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    Good to hear stories of proud/happy owners! I've encountered some of the nags here (wandering mirrors, tailgate gasket, loose lower front fascia), but altogether I've been pretty happy as well. There are a few things the General could have done better in the design area, but overall I think they did very well for a first year product with an entirely new engine! I've got 4000 miles now on my Bravada and she runs perfect!
  • bobed2121bobed2121 Member Posts: 70
    Wandering mirrors? What do they do exactly? Does the tailgate leak from bad gaskets? The front fascia is that way on all models we looked at.
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    I'd be interested to know what kind of Gasoline the hesitating is occuring with (RFG with Ethanol, MTBE, plain old regular unleaded or ???) since I do not have a hesitation problem with my TB ( 2WD LS, 3.42:1 gears, made in 11-01) . I know it can be about as drivable cold as it is when hot, and I do not expect it to run like it's already warmed up when cold either. But it certainly gets going OK, I do not wait idling for it to warm up, I put it in gear and go as soon as the normal fast-idle (1100-1200 RPM app'x) goes down to 600-800 range- maybe 10 to 15 seconds max. We use MTBE-laced gasoline here and other than reducing mileage a little it seems to have no effect. (except for the MTBE getting into our water supplies and doing absolutely nothing to "clean" the air, and costing us that are forced to buy it more in $'s in reduced efficiency and mileage- but I digress..)
  • jack51pinejack51pine Member Posts: 18
    I just had the tailgate license plate gasket installed, it looks very good with my TB being black.
    I posted this a while ago, but just for reference, my '95 Jimmy has always had a loud fan noise at start-up. It fades away after about a block. I just heard a late model blazer pull into the service area with the same noise. Maybe I'm a little more accustomed to it, but I've never heard the TB sound nearly as loud or the frequency of occurrence like the Jimmy. If it's just the noise and none of the other symptoms I wouldn't be too worried about it.
  • anjin_navanjin_nav Member Posts: 18
    I called a friend of mine in Detroit who works for GM. He did some digging about the fast idle and engine hesitation we've been reading about, and I thought I'd share. (I may have some of the details wrong. If so, hopefully gmdrone can correct me.)

    The cooling fan is an electric fan. However, it is still hydraulically clutched. When it engages, it can be pretty loud. It sucks in extra cooling air when the engine is under heat stress--usually when driving in harsh conditions such as off-road. Ironically, the "fast idle" and "hesitation when cold" are not a result of the current environment, but rather the conditions of the engine when you shut it off. If you shut it off within about two minutes of having the fan active, the fan stops with some of the fluid still engaging the fan. The only way to purge the fluid, and thus disengage the fan, is centrifugally. So when you start your truck up next, the fan engages and spins until the fluid is purged. This takes about 30 seconds. Since the engine powers the fan, it takes horsepower from the engine when running--about 10%. Thus, if your fan was engaged when you shut off the engine, it will activate the next time you start the vehicle, causing the loud roar--often mistaken for a fast idle--and will require more gas to accelerate to overcome the loss of power. Run it for a block, and everything should run normally.

    That would help explain why noller2g hasn't had the problem with his slower startup routine (I'm assuming he pulls into his garage as carefully as he pulls out of it), and iexplore2000 has experienced it more with his less patient routine.

    My friend said they sent out a new calibration last November that should help minimize the problem. I told him that some folks here are still having the problem, and that in fact at least one of them was driving the new TB EXT, and he promised to see if he could find out more. I hope this helps.
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    1. Tailgate Gasket - the plastic surround that meets metal around the license plate area expands and contracts under different heat conditions. You may hear a popping noise or notice small chips of paint missing from the metal around it. GM made a rubber gasket that prevents this, and it should already be installed on the newer vehicles (post 02/02).

    2. Lower fascia - you may want to have your dealer epoxy the push pin rivets in the closed position to prevent them from loosening.

    3. Wind noise - check all of the weatherstripping to see if it is loose. Reposition or remove the crossbars for the roof rack. Also check the rubber gaskets inside the front quarter panels (you can see them when you open the door and look in at an angle)

    4. Wandering Mirrors - effects vehicles with memory seating... the mirrors forget their memory presets and wander whenever you push the key fob or start the car. There's a TSB for this, and they will replace the mirror actuators.

    5. Wheel binding - I haven't experienced it, but some think it's the transfer case, other's the eaton gov locking diff...

    6. Hesitation - Many theories here as well...

    7. Paint - Some have complained of Orange Peel. Others have had problems with rocks/sand stripping paint on lower rear fenders. Personally, my paint is holding up very well and looks great! It's just impossible to keep the indigo blue clean.

    8. Spontaneous shutdowns - Recall issued for Fuel filter seal and ecm tsb programming updates.

    Can't think of any more, but I'm sure they're out there. Check out www.timlauro.com Tim has a pretty comprehensive site, and even some of the TSB's he was able to round up while we had access to the service GM site.
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