Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

mdey

The nozzle of the windshield washer fluid jet is adjustable. Take a straight pin, put it inside the jet and move the jet to adjust the direction of the stream of fluid. Pretty straight forward adjustment and works on most cars.

macman246

I've had my Envoy SLT 2WD 4.10 axle since 9/01 (build date 6/01), and 7800 miles later I'm still happy with it. Smooth quiet ride, no wind noise, lots of power, awesome kick in horsepower at 4000 rpm, cool electronics/gadgets galore, awesome Bose system, and 17-18 mpg for mostly city driving.

I had the software updated to fix a delay in transmission downshift when I floor it to pass. The update also supposedly fixed the fan roar, but I still get that occasionally for only the first minute it's running. I also installed the GMC mud guards and running boards to help protect the lower panels. So far, no new chips in the paint. I also installed a bug guard and PIAA bulbs.

Minor problems that still need correction when I have time: 1) license plate gasket for the paint scraping, and 2) rear tailgate window has a minor water leak.

My wishlist: a bigger gas tank.

My concern: the air compressor for the load levelling suspension will eventually wear out. It's doing what it's supposed to do, as I can see it lowering the back end when stopped facing downhill, and pumping it up when stopped facing uphill. I already had it checked for leaks, and it's fine. I don't plan to have them install the filter to get rid of the hiss when it inflates.

Overall, I'm happy and would do it again.

cmack4

Macman246, well put and Amen to the bigger gas tank! You listening GM?

medolark

I have been one of those with hesitation problems and we have MTBE in the gas.

I am getting ready to head out on a 5000-6000 mi trip with the Envoy so maybe I will have something new to say when we get back.

I expect the hesitation problem will enventually get solved either by a change in my driving habits or GM coming up with a new calibration. There is no doubt in my mind about which solution should occur.

mlauricella

Thanks for all the positive comments guys. Im still not sure what i'm going to do. I REALLY WANT THE TRUCK. Its a Black LTZ, with a roof, Bose, 3:73's, and a Locker.

Ive looked at every other SUV on the market, and the TB was my choice.

My 97 Grand Prix GTP was a first year model, and its been the best car I ever owned. I will keep you posted.

Thanks again, Mike

gam2

Just an update on my Bravada. So far the transfer case fix seems to be working. I haven't experienced any binding. Olds called last week and gave me a real shock, they offered me free routine maintenance for 2 years for my problems (16 days in the shop). I guess it pays to complain if you're not happy.

Amen again to a bigger gas tank. 21+ gallons seems to be the norm. 18.7 just doesn't cut it.

GAM

medolark

I have tried copying several different VIN numbers from local dealer inventory into the website with calibration data and none of them work. Maybe the data is not made available on the site until the vehicle is sold???? Sneaky buzzards. They probably keep changing the calibrations and just don't want everyone to know there is something more current.

pepper50

While I admit that 18.7 gallons is slightly low capacity, it doesn't matter much when you consider that you should never let your gasoline level get very low because you put your electronic fuel pump at risk of early wearout. The pump is cooled by the ambient gasoline in the tank, and the lower the level, the less it is cooled, which shortens its life. These fuel pumps are VERY expensive to replace. Several folks have recommended to me that I refill when the tank is only about 1/3 empty (2/3 full) or certainly not less than 1/2. Occasionally, it probably wouldn't hurt to let it get close to empty, but you wouldn't want do that routinely. 18.7 gal seems likes a lot compared to my Grand Am's 13 gal, but the latter gets 30 mpg which makes up for the difference.

pepper50

Not sure why your VIN entries didn't work. All of the ones I tried off of GMBuypower dealer inventory worked. That's how I became confident I had all the latest calibrations for my Envoy. I know if you make one typo it won't work, because that happened to me a couple times, but when I corrected it, it worked OK. Also note that none of the VIN's have the letter "I" or "O" because these can be confused with digits. So it's always a 1 or a zero.

acl1966

I also have an Envoy SLT 4WD with the 1SK package/running boards. Thanks to all the great input on this board, I learned of the tailgate license gasket and had it installed 3 weeks ago. My vehicle is black so the gasket looks real nice. I feel that my truck is now complete as a "first class vehicle". After that gasket was installed, I gave the Envoy another coat of Zaino. That tailgate never looked better. Macman246 is correct in stating that the features on the triplets are outstanding. As he stated, the Bose system is awesome. Everyone who hears it is impressed, especially after listening to the Bose Demonstration CD that came with the truck. The DVD player is also "state of the art". I've had my truck since 9/6/01 (built 8/24/01) and have not had any problems at all, except for the gasket. As far as choosing 2002 over 2003, I'm glad I chose the 2002. I'll own it one more year before GM makes a styling change and afterall, it's the 2002 which got all the hype and made "SUV OF THE YEAR". As stated before, I'm sure the 2003's will be better than the 2002's and the 2004's will be better than the 2003's. So where does it stop. I'm going to enjoy my 2002 and hope that my vehicle will not give me any problems in the future. PS, Onstar still hasn't made available the personal calling feature to us poor folks who live in South Florida.

biggie4852

No post on some board should be the key to buying a 30,000k truck. Look at it and judge it for what you think it is worth to you. I love my truck the TB LS 2wd. This car total price and payment was more afford able for me than the LTZ I wanted. But maybe it was a blessing in disguise because so for 7800 mile no problems. However this car has no power mirror, on star,DIC or any of the associated concern dealing with the 4wd function, binding in turns and transfer case problem. My only real complaint is a bigger gas tank would have been nice. But hell it to late now and I never second guess myself. I love my truck until I trade it for the next one.

bobed2121

I went to the vehicle calibration web site, entered my VIN and it brought up a list of transmission, speedometer, system, throttle control, engine, and operating system histories. What does all this mean?
Thanks

bojo22

I took my Bravada in yesterday for the tailgate gasket fix and the fuel filter connection recall.
From the feedback and photos on this board I was
expecting the black gasket to be visible after installation but mine cannot be seen at all. This
makes me wonder if the dealer really installed the
thing at all! Have any of you had the gasket installed so that it is not visible? I could understand if the truck was black but it is a jewelcoat red Bravada.

penny14

I went into this location and ran a check on my 02 Bravada. I also ran a check on a VIN number for a new vehicle at a local car dealer. Both lists are identical. Please explain what this means. Do I need to have all of these calibrations performed? Have they already been performed? I am confused.

In the last 100 or so posts someone asked the question about the loud fan noise and if it were particular to only one type of triplet. I do have it in my 02 AWD Bravada. It is pretty sporadic, though, and doesn't appear to cause major hesitation in driving.

Despite the problems I have had, I still love my vehicle. It is the best vehicle I have ever owned. Our 98 blazer 4wd is a dog compared to this vehicle!

pauleul

Not possible. Click on this link to see a gasket:

http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/paint-chipping-before-after.htm

Did you have any paint chipping? If not, I would assume your plastic pocket was not bolted in tight enough to cause the chipping problem. If that was the case, your dealer probably didn't see any reason to put the gasket on. Check and see if you can move the pocket at all, if you can it is probably too loose. If you tighten it, you will then have the chipping problem.

I would demand the gasket either way just to be safe.

tblazed

That list consists of all software updates done as of the date of production. If the numbers match then yours has all the same updates as the newest production one you checked against. Some variances I noticed were from a different rear gear ratio effecting the speedo and engine calibrations, but as long as you compare "apples to apples" you should get an accurate list of the changes as they applied when it was built. I compared mine built 11-01 to a friends built in 2-02. If theres no difference then there's no new update.

triumphbobk

GAM,

I have a 2002 Bravada and I believe it has the binding problem. The dealer says that its the SmartTrak and its working as designed. The only thing is, it just started happening about 3 weeks ago with about 6000 miles.

I will call the Olds help line and open a case on this. Would you tell me the name of your dealer so that I can put my dealer in contact with them so they can become informed of the problem? Also, could you give me your case no. so I can reference it during my discussions? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Bob K

bojo22

I thought this might be good for a laugh...

Upon closer inspection of my tailgate area where my dealer supposedly installed the "invisible" gasket, it turns out that they installed it on the
actual license plate and not the plastic insert!

Somehow, I don't think the technician had a clear understanding of the problem! My Bravada goes back in tomorrow for the proper fix.

jwinky

LMAO!!

Uhhhh......Yeah. That is why we have to go in armed with as much info as possible when trying to get issues and TSB's addressed. I am not saying that it is this way with all service departments, but man, that is too funny.

JAW

bojo22

I thought this might be good for a laugh...

Upon closer inspection of my tailgate area where my dealer supposedly installed the "invisible" gasket, it turns out that they installed it on the
actual license plate and not the plastic insert!

Somehow, I don't think the technician had a clear understanding of the problem! My Bravada goes back in tomorrow for the proper fix.

gam2

Bob K,

The binding problem is NOT normal, especially if it didn't do it before. My case number was C-06792229. They should have all the information they need there. The dealer replaced the Encoder Motor in the transfer case (p/n 88935687). Hope this helps.

GAM2

pauleul

I'd like to say UNBELIEVABLE but......

Did you check to see what he hooked your fuel pump up to? I would use great caution before I used my windshield washer squirts again. ;>)

Want to bet on him trying to use the same gasket where it really belongs (what is left since he had to cut it much shorter)? At least it will still cover the top and maybe an inch or two down each side.

You can print out the TSB from Tim's site with a pretty drawing included showing exactly how/where to help them out. Kinda like paint by numbers.

dva10

I JUST GOT BACK FROM THE DEALER,WHAT A TRIP!I ASKED ABOUT THE GASKET AROUND THE LICENSE AND WAS TOLD THEY CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T SEE ANY CHIPPING YET.I GUESS I HAVE TO WAIT THEN GET THE TAILGATE PAINTED AND THE GASKET. I CANT SEE LOOSING A CUSTOMER OVER AN $8.00 GASKET.
I ALSO HAD THE COMPUTER FLASHED AND I ASKED FOR A LIST OF THA UPDATES THEY DID BUT THEY SAID I COULD NOT BE PRINTED OUT!
MY CITY MPG IS ONLY 12.5 AND I SEAM TO THINK IT SHIFTS TO HIGH, AROUND 2800 TO 3000 BUT THE DEALER SAID IT'S NORMAL. (342 GEARS)
DOES ANYONE HAVE A RATTLE ON THE LEFT FRONT,ONLY ON SMALL WASHBOARD TYPE BUMPS? THE DEALER SAYS IT'S - NORMAL. I AM STARTING TO HATE THAT WORD.

pepper50

dva10, I'm not sure how large your city is, but if you are in a metropolitan area like me where there are 5-6 GMC dealerships, then I'd tell my dealer that I'll take it for a second opinion and whichever dealership is most congenial and compliant will then win my routine service business. Another approach is to ask to speak to the service dept manager, if you already didn't. If that fails, you can even go over his head to a dealer principal. Then there's even the zone manager... If your dealer understands you are willing to take all your service business somewhere else, it might make a difference. Also ask them to document it in writing that you asked about it and that they refused it; that will make them paranoid. One thing the dealership really fears is a Better Business Bureau complaint.

tjcishere1

I asked this same question a while back for any new people reading this i need your help i still have a few weeks before my Envoy xl Slt comes in im still looking into different warranty companys. my dealer offered me 7yr 100,000 miles 0 deductable for $4770. I think this is too high what are you people paying oh by the way that was the Gm major Guard thanks for you input
Tommy

dshepherd3

Never heard of an extended plan anywhere near that high. GMPP is 1550 for 5/75 covers every thing 100 ded. roadside service and rental. Try GMPPDIRECT.com, for info.

bobed2121

I got a 5/60 $0 deductable for $895. I think it's too much to pay but if that 4x4 or transmission needs work down the road I'll be singing like the fat lady!!

previousamigo

If you buy other than the GMC warranty, read the fine print. The Chevy dealer sold me a 6 yr/90,000 mile warranty with a $50 deductible for $1,200 (negotiated down from $1,800). I was reading the fine print yesterday and I must change the oil every 5000 miles and the timing belt at 60,000 miles for the warranty to be valid. This is a different schedule than the owners manual for my TB.

I was suprised the Chevy dealer (Sid Dillon in Blair, NE) didn't try to sell the GM warranty??? I was able to finance the warranty over 3 years with the 0% offer with the TB.

I'm still having the cross wind noise from either the mirrors, lack of baffles, or door seals. Tough to locate when doing 75 mph on the interstate. Are the baffles not on/in the TB??? The door seals look good and when I pinch/squeeze/pull the door tighter even around the window, I still get the painfully sounding wind noise.

iexplore2000

I got the 5 yr/75,000 mile GMPP with $0 deductible for $1,340.00

iexplore2000

Medolark & EnvoyEnvy1:

For the past several days, I've been starting the vehicle and letting it run for approximately 30 seconds, turn off the ignition, let it sit for 10 seconds and fire it back up again. So far this is a SUCCESS at removing the hesitation problem that I have been experiencing. The vehicle accelerates VERY smoothly and seems to perform a little better overall too!

Anyone have any ideas as to why starting/restarting the vehicle seems to correct the problem?

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

anjin_nav

I think the reason your solution works, IExplore2000, is because when you first start your truck up and let it run, you let the fan spin off the fluid and disengaging the fan's clutch (see my last post).

I'd feel better if we could get some confirmation from gmdrone, but I think my friend's a pretty good source.

medolark

I too have been having some success with what I call "slow startup" process. I don't go through a restart, but I do leave the key on for a few seconds before engaging the starter. Just long enough for the lights to go out. Then if I hear the compressor going, I let that finish also. Then I start and let it run until rpm has dropped to around 700 or so. Then it is ready to go. It appears there is no problem at that point.

The only explanation I can see is that the computer has priorities and if it it does not have time to get everything all set up, things like the compressor trying to fill the air springs could temporarily interfere with other programs. Also, anjin's suggestion about the fan effect makes sense. (I still doubt that "hesitation" is caused by loss of power to the fan, but I do believe the effects are inter-related somehow).

xntrick

Thanks to many of you for taking the time to post information highlighting concerns and/or praises for the triplets. We will be picking up our Envoy in Ontario and driving it to Texas over Memorial day weekend. Please feel free to give us some advice on areas of concern before we make the trip (e.g. the tailgate gasket issue). Our vehicle was just completed 5/02 but I am not presuming that many of the earlier difficulties have been rectified. If you like you may email me directly at les_akins@yahoo.com. Regards, Les Akins

iexplore2000

Anjin: I honestly don't hear my fan during initial startups. I can usually tell when it does come on, but for some reason, my fan seldom become engaged. Therefore I kind of believe that the "fan spinning off the fluid," may not be applicable to me? But then again, I could be wrong.

Medolark: I agree with you on the "slow start" operation as well. I noticed that if I turn on the ignition and let the fuel pump prime the engine until it shuts off, accompanied by the gages running their checks, I can usually start the vehicle without any interruption. I am going to test this theory for the next few weeks to see what I can find. Medolark, possibly you could do the same as well? Hmm.. I think that we are finally on to something!

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

tblazed

"Tailgate Gasket Fix..uh..Flub" and "Dealer refusal to install gasket" - These are two perfect examples why I feel we owners need access to TSB's and why I prefer to do the simple tweaks and fixes myself. Each to his (or her) own but I actually LIKE doing my own fixes. Of course there are a lot of things no one can do without the proper tools and diagnostic equipment. THAT'S when I go to a dealership. Someone not inclined to do simple fixes- go ahead and put your vehicle in the shop for days at a time. To those who email me saying "just take it to the dealer and have them do it"... what more can I say.

paisan

No offense to you or other GM owners but until you guys hit em in the pocketbook by not buying their cars, they will continue to have poor service and sub-par quality vehicles. Once they get hit on their bottom line, then they'll stand up and take notice.

-mike

bobed2121

I used to believe that. Used to think I'll fix them I won't spend anymore money at that store/shop/resturant/town...but it don't matter. There are just toooo many people that will take up the slack. No offense, but that just don't work these days.

jack51pine

I noticed the fan noise at start-up for the first time this morning, I've noticed it before, but never first thing in morning after sitting all night. The one thing different about this is that the wife drove the TB last night, normally I drive it. It didn't affect the power at all and no hesitation, but I wonder if it also has something to do with the way the vehicle is shut off? I usually have do a slow shut-down, put it in park, turn off radio, lights, etc. then turn it off.

triumphbobk

GAM2,

Thanks for the info. The problem seems to be getting a little worse, but maybe its not what you'd call "binding". It feels like you're in 4WD and the rear end is locked. I went to a dealer near work and spoke with the service advisor about the problem and the other dealer's position that it was "just the SmartTrak doing what it's supposed to". The service advisor immediately recounted his personal experience with his GM truck, (not a 2002), and said that the problem may be related to the fluid in the rear end being the problem. He said that there was a TSB for this problem on pre-2002 GM trucks and that the solution was to drain and flush the fluid in the rear, twice, and the problem should go away.

I seem to recall awhile back that someone else on this list had a similar operation performed on their triplet. Does anyone recall this? Did it fix the problem?

I'm going to give this new dealer a shot at the problem before getting into the transfer case rebuild. Maybe the fluid change will work. I'm wondering, though, was the incorrect type of fluid originally installed, or did it break down? Anyway, I'll give these guys a shot, and perhaps it will lead to the proper resolution.

Probably the biggest problem I have is convincing the dealer that there's a problem. Are they just uninformed, or are they playing the "squeaky wheel" game, hoping I'll just go away and not bother them? I don't get it.

Bob K

tblazed

Hit'em in the pocketbook? Sort of hard to do that when GM sells as many vehicles as Ford and Daimler/Chrysler combined. Besides my experiences with GM vehicles going back to and including my '55 Cadillac Coupe DeVille (wish I still had THAT!) and my '65 Corvair Corsa has been excellent. After all the initial little "bugs" - and I am not talking about many - get worked out, then I can expect years of reliability. I still have my '86 IROC-Z and my '88 S-10. The two times I deviated and bought two Ford products (1st one was so bad I could not believe it and traded-bought another 16 months later - yep - that bad, but I am talking Mustangs) and one Nissan product (King Cab PU), I learned why all manufacturers have parts and service departments! Not knocking Fords or anything else. Heck, my best friend only buys Ford. Just my particular experiences. And, I do like doing simple fixes myself and sharing them with others that are interested.

macman246

Check your tire pressure right away! As simple as it is, don't trust the dealer to inflate them properly. My Envoy was 8 lbs under on one of the tires.

pepper50

Would someone who has installed their own license plate gasket, please post a very detailed step-by-step description and instructions--sort of a "Gasket Course for Dummies". What all has to be removed from the inside of the liftgate to access the attachments for the license housing? I see my Envoy has a 2-3" round plastic disc on the inside of the tailgate. Do you remove that disc in order to remove the rest of the inside plastic cover, and if so, how do remove that disc? Thanks for any detailed info.

bobed2121

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/53479/page004.html

BTW what does TSB stand for?

tblazed

I will reiterate what I found on my TB and what macman246 says- before you take out on your trip get a good tire gage and check-adjust your air pressure yourself! I specifically asked the dealer I bought my TB from to do that mainly because he was in OK City and I live in D-FW about 200+ miles. Got home, checked next day after cooling off all night, tires varied btween 40 and 46 PSI. Not good. Also I would get a torque wrench and torque all the lugnuts to 100 ft-lbs. When I checked mine some were almost loose some were very tight beyond 100 ft-lbs, a few were actually torqued to spec. Just some basic things to check and verify before you rack up 1000's of miles. Have Fun!!

tblazed

Technical Service Bulletin

blrmkr

Has anyone upgraded their non-Bose stereo w/ new speakers? If so, was the process fairly simple? I was not fortunate enough to get the Bose option back in 4/01, although I regret not ordering it now. I'm at least hoping to make tunes sound a little better.

I've driven 23k miles now (built 3/01) and the TB LT keeps on going...

vplaza

Man, just when you really thought it was clear, my wife just called me to let me know that the Envoy is giving a very loud fan sound and is hesitating. She's on her way home from the grocery store, but she is really upset.

What is the official description of this problem and is there a TSB for it?

Thanks in advance.
Vince

dshepherd3

again, guys, till they have a permanent fix, turn the key on for 10 seconds before starting, it seems like this necessary only during the first start of the day, and then start engine, this seems to prevent the fan engagement.

a6wagon

Current happy owner of a BMW X5 4.4i. With two kids and a dog, the X isn't big enough anymore. I checked out the Denali, but I thought it was too big. Then I saw the new Envoy. It was loaded!! Leather, dual climate control, three rows of seats and DVD player all for $37K. Could I get some feedback on the pros and cons of the Envoy? I have not purchased an american car since 1995.

gam2

Paisan: Your comments hit the nail on the head. No offense to you or other Isuzu owners, but maybe that explains Isuzu's horrible sales lately.
How much will Honda dealers have to discount Passports (Rodeos) so that they can sell Pilots for list price or more?

Bob K: I thought my problem may have been the rear end, but the problem hasn't returned since the transfer case fix. My truck would spin the inside rear tire on sharp turns like it was in AWD. Someone here had their transfer case flushed but I'm not sure it helped. The Eaton rear end uses conventional lube oil with no additives. Someone suggested adding Positration fluid to help things if it is indeed the rear end. Maybe you can disconnect the electrical connection to the transfer case and see if the problem persists. That should tell you where the problem is.

GAM2