Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • gmdronegmdrone Member Posts: 78
    Do Not Drive the vehicle in either Low or High range LOC on DRY PAVEMENT!!!!! As explained in a previous post, when the transfer case is engaged in either lock position, the inter-axle differential is disengaged, allowing all power to go to both axles, and causing them to turn at exactly the same ratio. When you turn the front wheels in a lock position (Hi or Low), the tires will try to spin at the same speed, because there is no differential action, it is locked out. That is what a differential is for!! If you want to use the lock position, wait until it rains, snows, or find a sand pit or mudhole to play in. If you do drive it on dry pavement, and turn the wheels, expect that sooner or later you will rip the guts out of your a) suspension,b) differential,c) axle shafts,d) u-joints or any combination of the aforementioned. If you don't understand what I am saying, PLEASE ask a qualified mechanic that you trust to EXPLAIN how it works, because I have heard of all sorts of owners who have ruined a drive train, and then gone to the dealer to get it fixed, only to be laughed out of the service department. As explained above, that is why it pays to read the owner's manual, believe me, we wouldn't give you one if we didn't think you needed it, it costs money too!!!

    Regards,

    Mark
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    I thought a diversity antenna system uses 2 antennas to automatically switch between to receive the best signal and minimize FM multipath etc. That's the way a friends Toyota works. If one antenna is on the rt-rear 1/4 glass where's the other antenna?

    Seat back loose is "normal"?? " The dealership is saying this is 'within normal movement' on the specifications of TB." I would ask to see GM's "specification" for seat back looseness. (Sounds like someone at that dealer doesn't want to bother with it to me) Then I would go to a different dealer!
  • pauleulpauleul Member Posts: 116
    The body shop did mine since I was the first. All others will be done by the service department (so my dealer said). They rip panels apart all the time too, fixing problems in the doors, dash etc. I'm pretty anal and I still didn't demand the chipped area to be painted. There is no reason (unless the primer also has been worn through). The gasket more than completly covers the affected area. It will never be seen again and as long as the primer is OK, it can't rust. Any dealer doing it is probably just trying to suck out more warranty money from GM. Any owner demanding it is paranoid (just my opinion).

    RE mileage:

    16-17 mixed driving and 20-21 highway with 2,000 miles now on the Envoy. Still (0) mechanical problems.

    Just to try to make sure nobody misses the previous message, DON'T USE FOUR WHEEL DRIVE ON DRY PAVEMENT!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Three amigos

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • jackkajackka Member Posts: 25
    May I have an owner's report on the new in-line six cyl engine.

    Your observations on reliability and mileage will be appreciated.

    Many thanks.
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    Scroll through all of the complaints here and You'll find very few concerning the engine! There were a few early block failures due to the sleeve seperating, causing the piston to sieze, but those were only a few isolated cases. I've seen people here with as many as 30K+ on them already and no problems! You'll get varying reports on mileage, but I think the stated 15/21 is pretty accurate.
  • dshepherd3dshepherd3 Member Posts: 194
    4500 miles so far, performance is excellent, 16-20.5 mpg, GMDRONE might help us out with answers on growl/resonance issue at 58-62 under lite load and slight engine tapping during 1st minute of cold start. I have done some experimenting with the growl, e-mail me at djsljsrn@capital.net, GMDRONE, I think you are probably on the same track as I am.
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    I am extremely pleased with the I6. Good low end torque, an awesome top end, and SMOOTH! I especially like how you can hardly tell it's running at idle, but get it up past 5000 and it's got a nasty streak to it. Sounds great and doesn't require premium either.

    The 15/21 mpg is accurate and is as good or better than many smaller, less powerful SUV's.
    I just crossed the 20,000 mile mark and plan on getting up to 300,000. I'll report back in 15 years.
  • pepper50pepper50 Member Posts: 195
    I'm in the process of getting my license housing gasket and I noticed that my Envoy dealer said the price would normally be $17.09, and I knew that the list price was $8.50 ($6.38 wholesale price). Granted it's covered under warranty, but I decided to call several dealers and see if my dealer was just hiking the price, and the results I found out were incredible!! This same part number 15170981 is used on all the triplets. As you can see from the table below, at least here in the Dallas area, with only one exception, GMC dealers appear to commonly be charging double or more for the same part than from Chevy dealers Whether this trend continues on any other parts they might need to repair your vehicle later on, I don't know. But if you ever order a part, call a couple GMC dealers and a couple Chevy dealers before you decide where to get it. Also remember the Chevy dealer can order you a GMC part, too, so his price on a GMC part will likely beat the GMC dealer. Here's the results of my phone survey in the Dallas area with the dealers chosen at random:

    GMC Dealers
    1. $17.09
    2. $16.80
    3. $18.50
    4. $22.60
    5. $11.99
    Chevy Dealers
    1. $8.50
    2. $9.50
    3. $8.50

    GMDrone, can you make any comments on why there is this discrepancy between a part ordered thru Chevy vs GMC? It must be a generalized directive of some sort at least for this zone, since not one GMC dealer I called had an offer near the GM suggested list price.
  • quickdtooquickdtoo Member Posts: 266
    My experience with dealer parts prices is that they can add any amount of markup they think is appropriate! I belong to another owner's club that has corporate sponsors giving parts discounts to members. One of those dealer's parts managers is also a member and he has stated this fact. His company sells us parts at cost +10% and comparing that price with local OEM parts shows the marked up cost to just about double the cost of the part!
    I'm just glad that we have gmpartsdirect to deal with, but even they add a bunch of shipping on some items. Tim
  • pauleulpauleul Member Posts: 116
    When the GMC dealer did my Envoy, he read off his cost and the list. I don't remember the exact numbers, but list was in the high $7 (I think he said $7.92) and his cost was low $5 range. He didn't say if freight was included or not. If you've seen how the part ships, you would know the packaging and freight have to cost more than the actual gasket. I don't know how the chevy dealer could sell it for $8.50 and cover the cost of the part plus the freight. Combined shipments? I know mine shipped right away (to Oregon) and my Dealer is pretty small so he wouldn't have a large combined shipment. UPS on this part would have to be at least $3-4 to Oregon.

    Just for fun I called the largest GMC dealer in the Portland metropolitan area. They quoted me $8.50 with no additional shipping charge.

    GM Parts Direct sells if for $5.10 plus $9.95 for shipping and handling.

    Go figure.
  • pepper50pepper50 Member Posts: 195
    GM Parts Direct sells it for $5.10 plus $9.95 for shipping and handling.

    GM Parts Direct adds $9.95 for S/H to the first item of any order, whether it's a $5.00 part or a $100 part. So it doesn't pay to order small items from them unless you have several other items you need at the same time. But yes, they do make up part of their discount by charging a bit steep on the S/H. So you have to be careful and do your homework.
  • racoonlodgeracoonlodge Member Posts: 34
    Thanks Mr. Steve Host for the link to 3 amigos...
  • pauleulpauleul Member Posts: 116
    What you said doesn't appear to be true. I went to the site again, put in a quantity of 4 part number 15170981 and got a price of:
    $5.10 ea - total $20.40 with a shipping charge of $39.80. That means they are charging the full $9.95 on each part.

    Maybe what you said only works if I were to order 4 totally different parts. In any case, it doesn't make any sense and is a total rip off on 4 of the same part.
  • pepper50pepper50 Member Posts: 195
    That should be a software/programming error. Under their page for "Site Policies" they state that the first item is now $7.95!! It used to be $9.95, so it's lower than the last time I looked at that page. Here is what it now says:

    In the 48 contiguous states of the USA the minimum handling and shipping charge is just $7.95 for the first part on the order and a discount off minimum handling and shipping fee from each additional item not to go below 20% of the cost of the item order, whichever is greater (unless specified on larger sized items).

    I have had incorrect S/H show up on there before, too, due to programming, and they changed it when I pointed it out. So if S/H ever looks weird on there (like it does in your example above) call them first and get them to correct it. One reason their S/H is high is that they are just a dealer, and if they don't have something in stock, most items have to be shipped to them first, and then to the customer. With a few exceptions they can have some items shipped directly from the factory. I ordered 4 items from them a while back. Three were shipped to them and then to me; one came direct.
  • gmdronegmdrone Member Posts: 78
    As most of you know, dealers are actually independent from the manufacturers. They purchase a franchise to sell the vehicles and represent the manufacturer, but the final decision on what prices they charge is up to them! This has been a source of irritation to both consumer and manufacturer for years, and the consumer blames the manufacturer for the dealer, etc., etc. I know personally of at least 2 dealers here in Detroit that GM has tried to get rid of for years, but has been unable to dis-enfrachise them because they are operating right within the "legal" agreement. So, I sympathise with all of you who have no choice but to pay the price. I would advise you to shop around, which all of you have seen fit to do. The best way to stop this kind of "in your face" attitude is to vote with your wallet, take your business elsewhere, AND let the guy know WHY you are not patronizing his/her business! If you just walk away and don't let them know, they will just find another fish to bait.

    As far as the growl noise goes, I have put out my feelers, but so far I haven't found out anything concrete, and I tend not to speculate on issues that I am not familiar with. If Ihad to guess, I would bet that it is a resonance issue of some sort, either in the drivetrain, exhaust, or other vibration/moving part area. I'll let you know what I hear, when I hear it.

    Have a safe and enjoyable holiday weekend!!

    Mark
  • gcunninghamgcunningham Member Posts: 2
    Does anyone know the power rating on the standard radio in the trailblazer? I am considering upgrading to a component speaker system and need to know if the stock radio will push a component speaker set.
  • macman246macman246 Member Posts: 118
    My turn to chime in. 7800 miles so far and no problems. Awesome power, smooth, and quiet. There's a nice, healthy kick in horsepower around 5000 rpms. It's about as close to flying as you can get without leaving the ground (or buying a Porsche). I smile everytime and look in the rear view mirror.

    I'm averaging about 17.2 mpg with the 4.10 axle in mostly city driving.
  • malibu99malibu99 Member Posts: 305
    Someone might have already asked this but I was wondering....has anyone had dual exhaust put on their Trailblazer? If so how does it sound? Look good? Cost?

    Thanks
  • jackkajackka Member Posts: 25
    Thanks to all who responded to my request for I6 owner's report.
    I hope it continues to serve you well for a long time.
  • sweiblingsweibling Member Posts: 5
    Can anyone recommend a good oil change place? Are the dealers very good? I just got back from Jiffy Lube, where I noticed the tech repeatedly checking the dipstick, then adding more oil. I went over to him and told him that the Trailblazer takes 7 quarts, which seemed to surprise him. When he was going over what they did after the service, he listed the tires as being inflated to 40 psi. I told him that the door sticker said 32 psi and the tire said 35 psi, he went outside to check with another person. He came back inside and said that they were at 35 and changed the computer list, but when I asked if he had checked the tires again he responded with "the other guy said he inflated them to 35 psi, we have another Trailblazer out there and I'm getting them confused." This confused me, as the only other SUV at the place was a Landcrusier. Of course when I got home and checked the tires, they were all at 40 psi. Was going to try the dealer this time instead, but they couldn't get it in until Tuesday because they were so busy (so much for the promises the finance guy made of "no appointment needed" when trying to sell the lifetime oil changes. Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to share an experience.
  • tomwilson1951tomwilson1951 Member Posts: 7
    After several trips to the dealer to find the cause of my battery running down, the tech spent several days tracing every circuit in the Bravada. He had found there was an intermittent power drain, but couldn't find it without going through every component. He finally found that the HVAC module was occaionally causing a drain even when the vehicle was off. He replaced the module which I hope solves the problem. We also had the air compressor hiss filter fix, the license holder gasket installed and both mirror actuators replaced. We have almost 20000 miles on the Bravada and still like it a lot even with all the problems.
  • mkayemkaye Member Posts: 184
    I hope that solves your battery drain. I just couldn't help thinking that the era of the backyard mechanic is just plain over. With a new vehicle like any one of the triplets, "Hello Mr. Dealer."
  • racoonlodgeracoonlodge Member Posts: 34
    My problems, highlights, lowpoints and wishes with my LTZ after 12K & 8 months....
    Black/Pewter 2 tone, (options) 3.73 rear, running boards,
    heated seats, sunroof.

    PROBLEMS ENCOUNTERED:
    * 4 wheel drive switch did not work, replaced.
    * key stuck in ignition, had to replace
    trans module.
    * Marks on my 2 tone pewter (wheel-wells) - had
    them buffed out.
    * Driver side mirror was shaking at highway
    speeds - replaced with no problem.
    * Dealer will install gasket around license
    plate for no charge.
    * Build date is 9/2001, guess I'm part of fuel
    line recall, haven't received letter yet.
    Do have to admit, dealer has been very good with me and my LTZ.

    LOWPOINTS (my opinion)
    * Wind noise is terrible both cross wind & highway speeds. If you look & feel the rubber moldings, I think you'll see that is the problem. I plan to work on this and report back.
    * The front seat heater controls are too close and accidently turn them on at times. Should be moved up past seat controls.
    * My LTZ of course has the fender holes plugged in due to the two tone paint combo. I think all LTZ models should come with those holes plugged.
    * The controls for the 4-wheel drive and rear wiper look silly on the panel (out of place.
    * Also, I think the bottom of the panel (extra 12 volt plug & lighter) are out of place looking . GM could have devised a better looking panel (symmetrical).
    * Lets face it, The cup holders really don't do justice. The front two are useless, unless you put coins or candy in them. Don't believe me, Jam a bottle in those little holders (while in drive) them put the lever in park! GM could have come up with a better way.
    * I've seen this on other TB's, mine also, the passenger wiper rests a little higher on the windshield then drivers.
    * They could have done a better job on the "looks" of the interior doors. A little plain, even pad the door pocket (map holders) with carpet or something.
    * The back seats have a couple of problems....
    one being half the back seat looks like hinges or metal brackets. GM should have done better.
    * Pushing down the rear seats for more cargo area is a pain in the neck. They (I'm sure you know) do not lay flat and rub against the front seat. GM could have done better....

    ** Again, my opinions and these are constructive criticism s.

    HIGHTLIGHTS:

    * OnStar works great for me , never had a problem, always clear and OnStar never complains about my numerous testing.
    * Love the controls on the steering wheel including the heat/AC temp & fan.
    * Mileage I cannot complain. My Driver Info Center tracks me at 18.2 (Combo city & highway). My actual manual tracking has it about .6 less.
    * BOSE - let me tell ya, if you're thinking about the Xtra $$$$ for it, IT'S WORTH EVERY NOTE (both money & Music) WOW!
    * The Ride in general - Its great! I rode all the competitors before buying LTZ, and NO ONE is with us !
    * The looks are great!, If you think about it, The trailblazer has a sport look to it as well as, an elegant look! It can and does look either way.
    * Running boards on the TB look like they belong there. The body of the TB has a sleek style, not that Boxy look of the others.
    * 270 Horsepower and uses regular gas! what more do you want!
    * Nice touch with the amber lights under the mirrors.
    * Do like all the "bells & whistles" on the DIC .
    * Lets face it, GM did a fine job in all these areas.

    WISH LIST:

    There are my wishes for the TB:
    * Maybe, I'm old fashion, but I like to see a blinking alarm light on my dash for the alarm system.
    * Bigger gas tank....
    * Have the steering wheel remember driver 1 or driver 2's location.
    * The sun visor should be longer (when you put it to the side window. There is not a pull out piece, but instead you pull the visor down on the bar. Rather have an extension piece incorporated.
    * The rear lights look a little dark. Maybe I like bright red brake lights! But, even maybe add "amber" lights for color.
    * Maybe an automatic rear door opener!. Can't think why there isn't one.
    * Wish my rims had black inserts painted. They had these on previous Blazer's. Due to brake dust, it shows up on rims very easily.
    * Under both side mirrors, puddle lights would be nice.

    If I had to do it again, NO doubt, I spend my hard earned money on LTZ. GM took big strides with these vehicles. The Trailblazer looks great moving down the road, or just sitting in the driveway. Nice job GM!
  • pepper50pepper50 Member Posts: 195
    1500 miles on my pewter Envoy with no major problems until today, and not even sure about that. I left a store and noticed that the air-conditioner was not cooling well. It was cooler than ambient temperature, but was not as cold as I had remembered. Usually it is cold enough that I have to turn it down or away. I was concerned it was too low on refrigerant from some leakage problem, so I was very depressed as I envisioned taking it in and leaving at the dealer for several days. At my next stop I got out and felt of the air-conditioner lines and they were hot instead of cold. While I was there I pushed around on some of the visible wiring; nothing really seemed to be loose. When I started next time, things cooled fine, and seem to be cooling fine the rest of the day. So as far as I can tell now everything is normal. I don't know now if there really was something loose in the wiring that I corrected, or whether the A/C problem is intermittent. I guess only time will tell. I don't think I'll mention it to my dealer unless it recurs or persists. I don't want him monkeying around with it unless he has to. I had another brand vehicle once whose A/C went out in the first year, and never was a good A/C again; it had to be worked on each year with major parts and expense, which turned me off to that company. Just the opposite is my 1986 Grand Am, which cools great and whose freon level has never even needed tested; so I'm hoping this GMC air-conditioner is good.

    As far as minor things, the door rubber weather stripping/gasket is coming loose in 2-3 small places, but I can tell that is due to almost no adhesive being placed; GM for some reason is very stingy with the weatherstrip adhesive. A dealer's bodyshop is set to put on my license housing gasket next week when the part comes in. Otherwise everything else seems to be fine .
  • biggie4852biggie4852 Member Posts: 34
    Register on the GM website and under the schedule it call for 12000 mile oil change. I believe this to be wrong must people say 3000-5000 at most. Does the 7.5 quart of oil give increase protection?
    And yes I always verify the oil is fill to correct level because a Jiffy lube attendant was not aware{only put 5} even though I inform them of the larger amount need.
  • littestlittest Member Posts: 7
    I have a 2002 Trailblazer and have experienced a significant problem with it since I first got it in late December of 2001. -- Sometimes (not all the time), when I first start up the car, the engine races wildly and doesn't "kick" down. If I try to drive it, the car starts to loose power and can hardly make it up a small incline and all the while the noise gets louder and louder! -- I have had it to the dealer twice to see if they could repair it. They did install a new "clutch fan", but that hasn't corrected the problem. Has anyone else experienced this problem? Any suggestions as to what might be causing it? I sure would appreciate any input, because other than this, I really like the SUV!
  • dshepherd3dshepherd3 Member Posts: 194
    This not a fix but try turning the key on , no start, for 10 seconds then start and see what happens.
  • archie34archie34 Member Posts: 8
    I have had my 2002 TB LTZ with the auto climate control since 5/01. Never had a problem and it has operated as advertised. Just this past week after sitting overnight, when I started the TB in the AM at about 40 F the A/C came on by itself. Pressed the OFF button to shut it off and it turned itself back on after about a minute. Repeated cycle 3-4 times then it stayed off. The next day the same scenario. Then no further problems the rest of the day nor for the past 4 days.

    Has anyone else experience a similar phenomenon?
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    When I registered my TB it said the oil change interval is determined by the GM oil life system. Its computer will supposedly calculate when to change the oil based on driving conditions. Might go up to 12,000 mi according to the owners manual but not likely. Also the capacity is 7 qts. not 7 1/2.

    The tire pressure issue from "Jiffy Lube" above, as far as what it should be set to, is the indicated pressure on the inside of the drivers door (32 psi). The pressure on the tire sidewall is the absolute MAXIMUM pressure it should ever be cold, not to be confused with the pressure GM says is correct for the tire and vehicle combination. Go by what it says inside the door. The psi will go up as the tires warm up.
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    I would like to find a clear deflector for my white TrailBlazer. All I have seen so far are dark colored ones. Any suggestions or recommendations?
  • thehamtheham Member Posts: 20
    Is anyone else completely annoyed by the fan noise. My TB LTZ seems to have the loud fan noise just about every morning now. I am thinking of starting to pursue a buy back. I have taken it in to the dealer 3 times with the problem and they are trying to say that it is normal. I completely disagree. An engineer did not sit down and say one day "I think I will make the trailblazer sound like a leaf blower. Let's put that in the design. Because I think it is acceptable for consumers to find work arounds like turning the key 10 seconds or waiting until the noise and loss of power goes away."

    This is completely unacceptable and I hope everyone else with the problem doesn't say oh well and live with it. Take it to the dealer every time that it happens. And complain to GM about it. The number is 1-800-222-1020. This is for the chevy customer service line.

    Normal operation is not defined as an auto that has sporatic loud fan noises with loss of power. No other auto out there has that same problem and if it does then it would be fixed. So if normal is a comparison against all personally operated vehicles bought from an auto dealer affiliated with an aut manufacturer, than the fan noise problem is not normal.

    There have been prior discussions on this but the description of the problem is when the car starts in the morning a extremely loud noise comes from the engine compartment (the clutch/fan)that sounds like a gas powered leaf blower. If you drive away with the noise you can feel that you have less power and the fan noise is louder when you accelerate. Then it will go away in about 1 minute or half a mile.

    Anyone else as frustrated as I. All I know is that in washington the dealer has 4 reasonable attempts to fix the same nonconformity or it is considered a lemon.

    Thanks for listening to me vent.
  • biggie4852biggie4852 Member Posts: 34
    Per my VIN number with a current mileage of 7900 this is what the site gave as recommended oil change.

    "Engine Oil and Filter Change
    Interval: As indicated by Engine Oil Life Monitor or every 12000 miles or 12 months whichever occurs first. In dusty conditions, change every 3000 miles or sooner
    Next due at: 19880 miles"

    This is what the GM owner site had as you see it.
    Help anyone is this safe or what?
  • littestlittest Member Posts: 7
    This is the noise that I was trying to describe in my message (#5852). I've been to the dealer twice now and the noise is still there! I, too, will pursue taking advantage of the NYS Lemon Law if this problem does not get solved. I paid over 37K for this SUV and don't plan to spend the rest of my life having the neighbors wondering if a helicopter is landing in my front yard each time I go down the driveway in my fancy new Trailblazer.
  • jb76jb76 Member Posts: 2
    You should consider using a product from Clear Guard (www.clear-guard.com). Its a custom designed paint protection kit, which uses a clear/transparent film Mfg. by Avery Dennison called "stoneshield". I have a Clear Guard kit on my Envoy and I'm really pleased. Its more expensive than a bug defector, but you can't tell the kit on the vehicle! Each kits has a 4-year guarantee, that the film will not yellow, crack, shrink or peel.
  • jb76jb76 Member Posts: 2
    I just purchased a Corsa exhaust tip for my 2002 Envoy. The Tips are rear exit, dual 3 1/2 stainless steel tips. They look so much better than the factory tip. They've got pictures on their website (www.corsaperf.com/truck_suv_tips.htm).
  • dieselnerddieselnerd Member Posts: 12
    My Trailblazer LT makes the fan noise from time to time. Turning on the key for 10 seconds DOES NOT make it go away. If it does it's probably just coincidence. I've owned many Chevy trucks and every single one of them made fan noise first thing in the morning. This is a characteristic of a silicone fan clutch. I also currently own a Dodge truck. It too makes fan noise starting out, it's just harder to hear over the diesel noise. The sound goes away after about 2-3 blocks of driving. The Trailblazer is so quiet compared to other trucks that the noise just sounds louder. What you perceive as a loss of power is just the extra power required to turn the fan. I might add that if your fan does not make noise from time to time the fan clutch has probably gone bad and won't work when you really need it like towing a load in the summer heat. The older generation of trucks had a little thermostatic coil in the front of the clutch that moved a valve to engage the clutch when enough hot air moved through the radiator. This caused delayed engagement when towing with a tailwind and the engine could overheat. (I know this from personal experience) The Trailblazer uses sensors in the engine itself to tell the fan clutch to engage instead of the thermostatic coil. This is what "reprogramming" can alter. Reprogramming CANNOT overcome the natural characteristics of a silicone fan clutch which needs time to spin out the silicone that accumulates when it stands overnight or longer. This is not a problem with cars since they usually have electric fans. The Trailblazer is a TRUCK and behaves like one. It has a heavy duty cooling system so it can tow heavy loads. This requres an engine driven fan that uses a silicone clutch. So, as the dealer is telling you, it's normal! It's possible that changing out your fan clutch may make the noise occur less often since some leak down faster than others simply due to manufacturing tolerances.
  • mytrip2mytrip2 Member Posts: 12
    I think (dieselnerd) is 100% right about the (fan noise) In my opinion there will not be any BUY backs because of a little fan noise at start-up. Some vehicles may vary in the length of time it takes the fan to normalize after start-up,but as for any measureable power loss, I have not experienced that.

    I hope all the triplet owners who are bugged with the fan noise will read and understand (post 5862)

    I know some people are still going to disagree about this, but I think you will just have to live with it.

    Just wanted to share my opinoin on this subject.

    It's not my intention to flame anyone, just that I think it's the way the system is designed to work. KEEP-ON TRUCKIN.
    L.Webb
  • tbcanadatbcanada Member Posts: 1
    I hate to be too picky, but my TB is 3 weeks old and I get this knocking on the driver rear door when I turn left and go over a bump. It feels like the door is banging against the frame. I also find the suspension is squeaking when I drive down a road at a low speed and hit even the smallest bumps. Anyone else have this? A fix??
    Thanks!
  • sean48sean48 Member Posts: 37
    ...on 2003 Envoy equipment changes or new options? I'm still hoping GM will start offering a DVD-navigation system w/LCD screen for the Envoy. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.
  • food4kpfood4kp Member Posts: 8
    The Envoy does come with OnStar as standard equipment, so there really is no need for a navigation system with an LCD screen because all you need to do is call your friendly OnStar advisor and he/she will be happy to give on-the-spot directions. It's like having a companion next to you. And frankly, I think that's better than the "screen" method which forces you to frequently take your eyes off the road just to look at that screen, thus creating a potential for an accident. With OnStar, you never have to take your eyes off the road. Plus, you get personalized service.
  • jaguar0027jaguar0027 Member Posts: 387
    getting a new Chevy Trailblazer.

    Can any current owners tell me reasons why you chose the TB over Explorer, Pathfinder, Forerunner etc...

    Also,

    How is the comfort, reliability, gas mileage etc been for you? Have you been back to the dealer numerous times for TSB's?

    I plan to test drive one soon.

    Thanks in advance.
  • pbshannpbshann Member Posts: 20
    Fan noise is normal and my 4.3L Vortec in my S-10 did the same thing. No worries here!
  • jmw4jmw4 Member Posts: 67
    I must disagree that this fan noise and the associated lack of acceleration which prohibits you from reaching 30 mph in the 1st 3 minutes upon startup is normal. If it was normal, it would happen every startup including on our initial test drive. Imagine the salesman responding to a customer's question regarding the issue by stating that this delay/fan noise is just the latest in advanced technology from GM. Since there are TSB's for the issue it does indicate that it is in fact a problem. Unfortunately a tech I spoke to at Chevy stated that there is not yet a fix. Fortunately it is a livable issue since it doesn't strand anyone.
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    I have to agree with the several other individuals concerning the fan noise issue. Both my father and I had 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V-8's and they did the exact SAME thing EVERY morning (or whenever the engine was completely cold). When accelerating, the engine would roooaaarrr until maybe the vehicle would hit approximately 20+ mph! Also, my best friend (who just purchased a Green Envoy) had a 2000 JGC Limited V-8 and his performed the exact same way. Additionally, my mother bought a 2001 JGC Limited V-8 last September and hers does the exact same thing.

    Actually, I was a little surprised with my Envoy because on most occasions, my fan rarely ever engages?? All of the SUV's that I've owned in the past had the engine fan roooaarr at initial acceleration upon startup.

    Just my two cents.. not trying to discourage anyone, but I really do believe that the fan concerned is dubbed as "normal." I would just check to make absolutely sure that your triplet has the correct programming updates for the fan. I believe that there was a TSB issued for this. Check out tlauro's website: www.timlauro.com

    Good Luck!

    IExplore2000@aol.com
  • dieselnerddieselnerd Member Posts: 12
    It's true there are TSB's for fan noise. This has nothing to do with noise on the start up of a cold engine. There is no way to program around the cold characteristics of a silicone clutch. The clutch control valve is opened or shut electrically instead of mechanically like older ones, that's the "new" technology. The fan speed is measured by the engine control system and is speeded up or slowed down depending on how much cooling is called for at the moment. If it doesn't respond properly, an error code is set that can be scanned by the dealership. Let me quote from the Factory Service manual, Engine Cooling, page 6-267, Fan Clutch Diagnosis. Step 2 asks: Is there excessive fan noise? if yes go to step 3. Step 3 says "Fan air noise is normal during cold engine start up" it goes on to ask if it goes away as the engine warms up. If yes go to step 13. Step 13 basically says if the fan noise stops go to step 16 which says System OK. This manual is what the technician uses to diagnose your fan problem. In the absence of any error codes, there isn't anything else to do. If as one person wrote, it won't accelerate past 30 MPH for the first 3 minutes, I don't think we are talking about the same problem. The fan takes power to run but not so much you can't exceed 30 MPH. You should easily be able to achieve highway speeds with a fully engaged fan clutch.
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    "Engine Oil and Filter Change Interval: As indicated by Engine Oil Life Monitor or every 12000 miles or 12 months whichever occurs first. In dusty conditions, change every 3000 miles or sooner"

    That pretty much says what I said above. You MIGHT go 12,000 mi under some optimum condition but when the built-in Oil Life Monitor comes on (assume well before 12K miles for most driving conditions) definitely change it, and if conditions are harsh like lots of dust change it even sooner. Also, if you just don't drive much (like less than 5-6K miles a year which probably would never turn on the oil change light) then at least change the oil once a year regardless of the low mileage. They are basically saying use your best judgement when to change the oil, and to consider the operating environment dust etc since the Engine Oil Life computer doesn't count things like dust in its calculation. I changed the oil in my TB at 1400 miles without resetting the Oil Life gizmo (just what I think it is - a "gizmo") to see how long it thinks the original oil should be good for. FInally, If I spend $25-35K for a vehicle I intend to get at least 10 years from I would certainly not trust a 12,000 oil change claim even with the 7 qt capacity and the built-in Oil Life monitor.
  • thehamtheham Member Posts: 20
    I agree and disagree with the fan noise issue. It is nice to hear a technical explanation of how the Trailblazer fan works. However I think the behavior of the TB fan noise is different from normal opperation. I have heard a fan noise in other vehicles (this is my second blazer, and 4th blazer in my family) but nothing compares to this. When I picked it up from the dealer 2 days ago I could hear my car coming from the back of the service lot. If this fan noise is the desired effect of a truck cooling itself on a daily basis, then we should be able to consistently reproduce the situation where the fan is needed to assist in the operation of the vehicle. I have tried to reproduce the fan coming on. Whether it be extremely hot and I use the vehicle all day long the leave it overnight. (Which should bring the fan on because of the extra cooling required the day before and the excess build up of silicone). I have tried every normal and abnormal driving situations I can think of(varying start times, in garages, driving the exact same route only for certain days) to reproduce the behavior consistantly. Whenever I think I got a pattern down. The fan will either not come on or come on. So my question is if this is normal why is it not reproducable behavior? If this is a desired effect of the car due to manufacturing tolerance why can we not get a measurement of what the tolerance entails instead of dealing with it randomly? Why are ther service bulletins where GM is trying to fix the fan noise "problem" if not is normal opperation? Why does the problem seem to get worse then people say just replace the fan/clutch and it will happen less? If this is just how it works then it should not get progressivley worse or better by replacing parts, and you should at least be insured by an interval of randomness that it will occur. i.e. every 4 to 6 days or so.

    The power draw is very drastic when compared to other vehicle with a working fan. And there is a definate power draw in the vehicle when the fan is engaged at that level. Anytime you have a noticable power draw in a vehicle I doubt that someone designed the fan/clutch to cause a power draw in the vehicle.

    I could understand the fan noise if I could consistenly know when and where it needs to clear out the excess silicone and thus provide my vehicle with a power draw and a loud noise when I expect it. But it does not.

    I know I sound like a child asking why, why, why. But I am feeling frustrated with this expensive purchase an would like to be enlightened on what a manufacture thinks is acceptable when they build a product. And what we the consumer should just learn to live with no matter how frustrating.

    Feel free to flame away. I don't mind

    The post continues. Not to dilute the conversation topic. But i get this behavior from the HVAC.

    My car sat outside from 9 pm to 1:45 am last night. I have the auto HVAC set to 70 degrees. The external temperature is 54 degrees. For my entire 45 minute ride home the hvac is blowing at around hal to 3/4 strength cold air. I even rooled all the windows down and the sunroof. Turned the auto off then back on and it stills blows cold air. And I was freezing. I dont actually get hot air on manual or auto no matter what thetemperature inside or outside the car until I turn it up past eighty degrees. The dealer said it was a problem and said they fixed it once. It seemed fixed for 2 days and now does it again.

    Thanks Sorry for the long whingin post
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    One thing I have noticed the few times my fan came on fully engaged from a cold morning start, I revved the engine up to about 1500 RPMs and listened to the fan. After 15 seconds or so, the fan started slowing down and finally the air/fan noise would diminish to basically inaudible. This seems to give some credence to the description earlier of the silicone viscous coupling stuff inside the fan clutch getting relocated within the clutch from centrifugal force after start-up and this phenomenon being just the mechanical nature of a viscous clutch. If it were consistent on my TB, I would try connecting a meter to the terminals on the fan shroud to verify whether it is being turned on electrically or just the mechanical nature of the clutch. Has happened maybe twice in the past month to me. Something to try on those that do it a lot anyway- just rev the engine to 1500 RPMs for 15-20 seconds and see if the fan slows down.
  • thehamtheham Member Posts: 20
    I think I have come to the conclusion that the fan noise that people on this board are really complaining about is different from the fan noise people are calling normal. I started my TB this morning and noticed the fan came on louder than when the car is running normally. I could physically hear the fan and after I pulled out of the garage I could tell this was normal fan noise that you would hear in all vehicles. A fan does have to displace air right so it is hard to conceal a fan noise especially if it runs faster on cold start in the morning. to clear itseld However this is entirely different from the fan noise I am complaining about.

    The fan noise I am complaing about is not something that you have to try to listen to. For decibal noise comparision. The fan noise is louder than the engine itseld running at redline. And the power draw is drastic. Not just a little taken away from the horsepower but enough to where you are afraid to cross a busy street.

    If people are saying this is normal please describe the fan noise that you are calling normal that you hear on your vehicle. Because I am not complaing about the fan working a bit of overtime to clear itself. I am talking about the random occurances of jet engines noises which is something your neighbors would hear from inside their home, and the loss of acceleration associated specifically with that. A fully engaged fan sounds alot different than a fan that works in triple overtime.
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