Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

pauleul

Here are some instructions, but remember, you are doing this AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Use a torx driver to loosen the one screw holding the pull down strap. Once you can tell it is backed all the way out, you can stop. You don't need to actually remove the strap since the outer part of the strap housing has ridges that hold it in the rest of the inside plastic tailgate cover. If you do take it all the way out, be sure you push it back in until the ridges catch when putting it all back together. Otherwise, you won't be able to get it back in flush by just tightening the screw.

The center plastic disc doesn't do anything, ignore it. Start on the passenger side at a point roughly equal to the bottom of the back window and work your fingers under the plastic cover. Gently work it until the clips pull out, then continue around the rest of the plastic cover. As I recall there was one clip in the very center at the point near the bottom of the window that is the hardest to remove. I left it in since I was able to push the plastic far enough out of the way to loosen all the nuts holding the license plate pocket on. There are 6 or 7 (can't remember exact) nuts that require a 10mm deep socket to remove. You should be able to just loosen them enough to pull the pocket out and be able to put the gasket on. If you decide to completely remove it, you will also need to disconnect the wire harness. Be sure you clean the edge well since there is adhesive in the deepest part of the gasket and it well stick better if you do. There are mold lines on the bottom inside edge of the pocket bottom that can be used to show you where the gasket should start and where it should finish. Also, take a look at the picture on Tim's site of an installed gasket so you have a good idea where it starts and stops.
It DOES NOT go completly around.

continued...

pauleul

There is a TSB posted on Tim's site with a picture (under problems):

http://www.timlauro.com

The hardest part putting the inside plastic cover back was dead center. Had to reach in with a flat bar to push the clip up enough so it would line up with the slot. All in all I thought it was pretty easy, but there is always the risk you might screw up somthing or break one of the clips.

I think that covers everything I ran into. I did a dry run before the dealer actually put the gasket on.

Hope this helps and Good luck,

Paul

pauleul

a6wagon,

If you scroll back through and read the last 100 posts or so, you will more that answer any questions you may have on the triplets (Envoy).

Just keep clicking on the scroll up 20 messages at the top of each page.

Enjoy.

bobed2121

I'm ready to change out my motor oil. I have always been a valvoline man. Anybody use the chevron oil thats recommended?

pbshann

I've had this happen several times since I bought my truck in Sept. It has never really worried me because it goes away in less than a minute and I also had the same experience with the 4.3L Vortec V6 in my S-10. The fan definitely comes on for no reason but it never seemed to harm my Rock Solid Vortec so I can easily live with it happening in my T-blazer. On a lighter note, I had the truck back on the beach again on the OuterBanks of NC and again it performed flawlessly. The only complaint was I was plowing some sand with the undercarriage, man what I wouldn't give for 2 more inches of ground clearance. Oh, well hope everyone enjoys their T-blazers, fan noise and all!

envoyenvy1

I don't buy the whole fluid and spinning issue in regards to the fan. If it was simply a case of fluid remaining and needed to be spun to be removed, then I could go out an hour or two later (after stopping) and I would experience this condition. That has never happened (at least to me). It's always been when it's cold. Not a direct reference to weather, but car sitting for an extended period.

I do believe the reprograming helps, as I was experiencing this on a daily basis until I had it reprogramed. A month later, it's happened only three times.

Yes, sitting after startup for 30 seconds does seem to take care of it, but Jeez, I just paid $32,000 for a new car and now I'm fortunate enough to be blessed with "waiting" for my car to work right?
I don't think so.... GM has got a real problem here. I'm taking it in one more time to try and give GM another opportunity, but failing that I'm going to beging speaking to council at work about legal options

pepper50

previousamigo recently wrote:
"If you buy other than the GMC warranty, read the fine print. The Chevy dealer sold me a 6 yr/90,000 mile warranty with a $50 deductible for $1,200 (negotiated down from $1,800). I was reading the fine print yesterday and I must change the oil every 5000 miles and the timing belt at 60,000 miles for the warranty to be valid. This is a different schedule than the owners manual for my TB."

The triplets don't have timing belts, do they? Surely they have a chain, don't they? (hopefully). Perhaps that statement above is from a generic insurance policy that doesn't specifically refer to a triplet? However, I'm no mechanic, so maybe someone smarter than me will clear this up. I'm surprised no one said anything about it.

paisan

Um no offense taken since Isuzu is rated #2 in reliability behind Toyota 4-runner in both JD Power and Consumer Reports (which hates Isuzu) Didn't see any of the GM ones up there in reliability. The reason for Isuzus downfall? GM owns 50% of them, and strangled their already poor marketing. I don't want to start a "isuzu v. GM" arguement on here. I was simply pointing out that people here complain to no end but then say "I'd still buy it even though it has all these problems" and the only solution to ensure any manufacturer be it GM-Honda-Ford-Toyota not put out crappy cars in the future is to no buy the ones with bad relibability/fit-finish/etc. That is how capitalism works here in the US.

-mike

dieselnerd

Rest easy Pepper50, the engine in the triplets DOES NOT have one of those rubber timing belts that need periodic replacement. The twin overhead camshafts are driven by a chain. Check out this engine press release for a lot of nice detailed pictures of our engine.

 http://media.gm.com/division/powertrain/index.html

According to my service manuals there is no specific mileage to replace the chain as is normally the case with any timing chain.

penny14

I have the loud fan noise only sporadically and the last time it came on after the vehicle was sitting for only two hours in 70 degree weather. So I do not believe it is only an early morning start thing. This is not the first time I have had it come on after the car had sat for only a few hours.

cmack4

Must be generic insurance lingo, because the 4.2L L6 has a timing chain with a hydraulic tensioner that adjusts based on the variable valve timing. I had asked my service department about it, since it's not in normal warranty, and they stated that it would last approximately 150K! I'll probably still swap mine at 100K as a precaution...

cmack4

Is the fan noise really that loud? I can hardly hear mine when it kicks on, and yes it does spin up for a couple of seconds when you start the vehicle... Probably as Anjin suggested, to get rid of excess fluid. The only other times I've noticed it were when I was outside of the vehicle. GM went to a lot of trouble to isolate road noise and what not... I know the baffle/insulation in my engine compartment is pretty thick, and like GM claims, I have trouble telling if my engine is even running when it idles. You sure know it's running when you start it up though... It gives a little shimmy from side to side from the power

2002slt

I don't buy anything based solely on reliability alone. If that were the case, I wouldn't buy anything from Microsoft. Anyway, you can keep your Isuzu. I never much cared for their styling. I like things that look good and perform well. Sure, there are some problem vehicles out there, but not the majority. Mine has been flawless. I wouldn't trade it for anything, in, or near its class.

paisan

That's cool, that is what makes this country so great!

-mike

scottc454

We need to get some facts straight.
GM is SAVING Isuzu. Without them Isuzu would be doing nothing but building commercial trucks.

cmack4

I think the biggest attraction to the triplets is the engine and the ride. Anyone who has ever driven one, will undoubtedly comment on both! I still find myself impressed by it every time I drive it! I would rate my Bravada as one of the most enjoyable vehicles to drive I've ever owned. That being said, it has had some minor flaws... but, if I were in the position to buy again, knowing what I do now, I would still buy my Bravada as my daily driver!

cmack4

or lack thereof has been their downfall from the beginning! It was a problem before GM, and it's still a problem! Let's face it, Isuzu does have have a niche in the rugged, no-frills market. So what does GM do, they cancel Isuzu's best vehicle, the Trooper, and replace it with a vehicle that really doesn't fit the image, Ascender. I wouldn't exactly call that rescuing...

paisan

Like I posted above. I have no intention of debating the Isuzu v. GM thing in this forum. Marketing has always killed Isuzu and they've been owned by GM since ~1980 something.

-mike

jdennehy

We picked up our Envoy on April 1st and so far I have been to the dealer several times. The on star needed to be fixed, couldn't get it programed, the radio sometimes worked and sometimes did not, they replaced the amplifier, it's fine now. It also does this strange thing when it's cold or the first start of the day, where it sounds like a jet or sounds like you have the car in neutral and you are flooring the gas pedal. Once I get to the end of my ally the sound goes away, but as I'm going down the ally ITS VERY LOUD. The dealer says there is nothing wrong. Has anyone else had this happen to them ??? Now it's at the dealer because yesterday when my family and I were going to the store, the air bag light was on the entire trip, when we came out of the store and started it the air bag light was gone, but the service engine soon light was on and when I put the car in reverse to leave the wheel was tight and the brakes felt strange almost as if the car wasn't even running, but it was !!!! I shut the car off and when I re started it everything was fine. Strange !!! I love the vehicle, but my confidence is slowly leaving. Anyone else out there with strange Envoy problems ? Just got rid of a Jeep because I was in the dealer too much. Here I go again !!!

scottc454

I guess we can agree to disagree. They will sell way more Ascenders than Troopers.

penny14

You would know if you had the fan noise. It is really loud (and embarassing). At first I thought it was the engine racing. Sounds like a jet engine.

paisan

Probably will sell in it's initial year well due to getting the V8 engine before the Envoy/Trailblazer LWB versions. Other than that, and only until the V8 is available on the GM versions I don't see how it's going to sell at all. Also pricing will also effect the Ascendor sales, if the Ascendor is priced the same as an equivilently equipped GM/Chevy version, then it may sell due to the 3/50K and 10/120K warranty that is included. If it's more $ then it will flop. Personally? Even though I'm an Isuzu fan, i'd buy the GM/Chevy version only because the dealership network is much larger for repairs on these vehicles compared to the very small Isuzu network (less than 400 dealers total IIRC)

-mike

mcupps

I'm also interested in replacing the stock non-Bose speakers with Infinity's (Reference or Kappa series). Crutchfield's website says the 6 3/4 speaker is the best fit, but Infinity's says the 6 1/2 is the best. Does anyone have any experience in this? How hard would it be for a person to install new speakers in the Envoy? Do you have to remove to entire door panel or just the speaker grills? Do you have to modify the hole in the door much to make them fit? Please provide all the details you can.

Also, does anyone have any pictures of the GMC splash guards installed? I have the dealer installed running boards, so are there any issues with the front guards fitting? Again, any links with pics would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, MCupps

tblazed

Has anyone added tweeters to the existing places in the top of the dash on a non-Bose TrailBlazer? How did you do it? I have the non-Bose stereo and would like to add tweeters to the dash holes that are provided for the Bose systems. This thing has PLENTY of bass and adding those tweeters would help balance out the sound.

bryancos

This morning I had the displeasure of playing bumper cars with a Saturn. I was at a light behind a coworker and traffic had just began moving. Suddenly the car in front of him braked, and he nosedived to a stop just missing the car in front of him. I wasn't so lucky. At 5mph (or probably even less), I slid into the rear end of my coworker's Saturn SL sedan. (Saturn owners will be happy to know that the claims of their bumper holding up to impact are true.) The only damage to my coworker's car was to the paint on the rear bumper cover, (caused by the license plate bolts on the front of my Envoy). Damages to the Envoy are more significant... in addition to a bent plate bracket and a caved in license plate, the front plastic fascia is "dented" much like what an aluminum can looks like when you squeeze it. But at least there's no paint damage. Unfortunately the Envoy/TB bumper crash test results held true, and I suspect that if I can't remove the fascia and simply "pop out the dent" I'll be faced with a nasty repair bill. Has anyone removed or adjusted the front bumper cover? This will be an opportunity to remove the annoying gap...

If GM can make a Saturn bumper stand up to a minor impact, you'd think they'd be able to repeat it in an SUV. Wake up GM! I'd hate to see what a mere shopping cart will do...

dse1

I've heard that for the 2003 models, the tahoe/yukon and suburban/yukon xl will have all the current TB/Envoy accessories and features, and back to the usual engines and 3/4 ton models that seem to have disappeared this year (in order to market the tb/envoy). Can anyone confirm this?

mkaye

The point for virtually all SUV manufacturers is they DON'T have to make the bumpers better. The vehicles are classified as trucks and do not have to meet the same standards as cars.

paisan

They don't have to have any bumpers at all in fact.

-mike

cmack4

It's actually a really easy process, and you shouldn't have any trouble doing it yourself. If I remember correctly, there are about 10 Push-pin rivets you have to remove, and 2 plastic cables.

Here's where to look...

Across the middle bar:
There are 5 or 6 evenly spaced that snap into an anchor in the bumper assembly.

Under the vehicle:
There are 2 that fasten dead center on the bottom of the fascia, that keep it from sliding forward

Left and Right Underneath:
There are 2 fasteners that hold the cables in place

Twist the wiring harness for the lights and it pops off. Do that for all of the acc lights and fog lights. Pull gently forward and down on the fascia and it will slide off of two metal supports and come completely off. While you're in there, if you replace the cables with metal and epoxy the push pins in the close position, it will eliminate any of the wobble you may have had before.

mharris6

Our envoy is going in for all the TSBs next week that are currently known and not yet done. Both mirror actuators, the gasket around the license plate, and the new fuel filter recall.

Also having a problem with anti-lock brake light coming on.

gam2

Paisan: Isuzu faces the same problem with the Ascendor that Honda had with the Passport, it's just a rebadged vehicle from another manufacturer.
I'm guessing the true Isuzu fanatics won't give a hoot about the Ascendor (especially if they read this site). I think Isuzu's quirkiness is what made them different. Unfortunately, there's too much competition out there, and people are buying
SUV's based on looks, power and ride, not off-road capability.

After reading these posts (and my own experiences), I truely hope we are in the minority as far as problems go. In my case, it doesn't matter what I buy, they turn to junk as soon as I drive them off the lot (includes Honda,
Toyota, and Subaru). I feel for the rest of you that have problems and hope SOMEONE from GM reads these posts. Maybe the new car survey I got will turn a few heads at GM (ha ha ha).

GAM2

paisan

True True. It pains me sooo much about how poor the big 3 are at execution. I was a die-hard American car fan til I got burnt, and I have been pulling especially for GM for a while to get their act together. Hopefully Year 2 of the Triplets will work out.

-mike

PS: I'd love for them to bring back my '74 Old 98 with the 455. Yum yum

richardcoulson

tblazed, I replaced the tweeters in the front dash of my trailblazer with a bose system in it. The factory tweeters are cheap 2" $10 paper cones that were a little harsh for my taste. Since you don't have the bose system, you will not have the bracket or the appropriate wiring. However, you can make a bracket out of 1/8" abs plastic and run wires down from the dash, to the kick panels, through the rubber tube and into the door. You can then splice the wires to the existing front speaker wires. If you are lucky enough to find the speaker wires in the dash, you can splice there. I suggest using some nice 1" soft dome polyester tweeters. You will also need to add a cross over to keep from overloading the new tweeters. A 20uf capacitor will bring a 4 ohm speaker down to 2000hz. A 10uf capicitor will bring it down to 4000hz. Just solder the capicitor in line with either the + or - wire on each speaker. You can determin the + and - wires by using a 9volt battery. Once you have spliced in the new wires, touch one lead the + and one to the - side of the battery. If the door mounted speaker cone moves forward, then the wire connected to the + side of the battery is the + wire. If the speaker cone moves back, then the wire connected to the - side of the battery is the + wire. If you need instruction getting the pannels off the door and dash, let me know.

tblazed

Hey Richard thanks for the input. Yes I would very much like to know how to get the dash and door panels off to install some tweeters. The rest I can follow no problem. The dash especially looks intimidating. If you want, email me at tblazed@ev1.net , or you can certainly go into detail here as I am sure there are a few more that might be interested in doing this. Which tweeters did you choose? A specific brand and source? THANKS! Ed

gam2

I still have my '72 Cutlass Supreme with a 455.
Unfortunately, it's apart for restoration. 12 mpg on premium is hard to take though...........

GAM2

bryancos

Thanks Cmack! After getting under the car and loosening the bottom of the fascia, I found that I have more damage than I thought. The metal bumper frame is bent, which caused the fascia to be deformed. Also the lower brackets for the front grill were broken off... guess I'll have to take a trip to the body shop afterall. Hoping they can just straighten the frame and reattach the existing fascia, as there's no paint damage.
I was hoping I'd be able to fix this out of pocket, but now I might be filing an insurance claim. The license plate bracket pretty much hides the damage tho, so I might just wait on repairs...

paisan

Yep I was lucky to get 10 with the 98 Hardtop. Unforutnately rust and electrical problems got the better of it But when that 4bbl 455 "rocket" let loose, what out!

-mike

cmack4

Sorry about the damage... I guess this is even more reason to want that bull/safari bar! Anyone find one yet? The bull bar can be both a blessing and a curse though. It helps out in fender benders, but in more severe accidents, it can actually multiply the damage.

ficuss

bryancos: did you really slide into the car or is that a just a phrase. The ABS system should have prevented wheel lockup especially at 5mph. I have not been totally happy with the soft feel of the brake pedal of my TB LTZ. I have commented that it feels like low speed stopping power is a bit low, or at least it requires more brake pedal to come to a stop than with other cars. Possibly this is due to the inertia of the car and rpm's that keep pushing the car forward while you are braking. Do you feel the car should have stopped short of impact, or were you just distracted? I am not trying to pin blame, just trying to figure if the brakes are adequate.

Frank

bruser1

Fluid Type:
DEXRON® III
TrailBlazer 4.2L L6 "Vortec 4200" (LL8) Hydra-Matic 4L60-E (M30)
Just curious if anyone can educate me on Dexron III specifications. I see we have it in our vehicles. Is it referencing synthetic, modified, or petroleum base? Does DIII call for a synthetic replacement? I want the synthetic fluid in the tranny, so if it ships with synthetic my objective is complete. However I can't find the specifications for Dexron III. What little I have found points to synthetic.
Bruce
The technical info above is courtesy of dieselnerd and his GM Media link-Powertrain. Thank you.

pepper50

Dexron III is not synthetic ATF. It is the standard petroleum ATF that GM uses in its vehicles. The synthetic ATF ads and literature claim that they outperform Dexron III. I plan to switch to a synthetic ATF at some point in the future; I haven't decided at what mileage yet. I will also switch to synthetic motor oil soon, although that will be expensive for 7-quart capacity. Probably at the second oil change. I plan to do the first oil change early at appox. 1500 miles. Have any of you put in synthetic at the first oil change?

triumphbobk

Not being satisfied with the first dealer stating that the binding in the front wheels was normal, I took my Bravada to another dealer who was actually willing to listen to me. At first the service advisor thought the problem may have been with the fluid in the differential, but after test driving the vehicle and consulting the GM "Technical Helpline", he was informed that there have been several instances where Bravadas have had a problem with the transfer case in that the encoder motor loses its memory at between 5000 and 7000 miles. The problem and solution has been documented as follows:

"CHECK WHEN TURNING BINDING ALSO WHEN BACKING UP AND TURNING SHUDDERS ON TURNS AND BACKING UP TEST ALL SYSTEM
CALLED GM TECH SERVICE FOUND ENCODER MOTOR LOST MEMORY RELEARN ENCODER MOTOR ROAD TEST OK"

In any case, it's working perfectly now. The advisor said that it takes approximately 2 1/2 hours to run the procedure for the encoder motor to "relearn" its memory. I wonder how many people are just living with this problem thinking its normal?

GAM2, thanks for the insight. Without that I may have accepted it the way it was. Things that just start up out of the blue usually don't go away without causing some amount of damage. Now on to the lisence plate gasket and air compressor filter fixes.
By the way, I cleaned my dashboard and console with Windex yesterday and wouldn't you know it, the black plastic piece in front of the shifter that holds next to nothing is turning light brown like the color of the dash. I think the black is rubbing off. That's the only piece thats doing it - the upper console is fine. Maybe just a bad dye job?

Its always something.

Bob K

paulpro

I too, would like to add tweeters into the dash opening. I have a set of shop manuals for my Envoy and see the Bose system includes an auxilary amplifier that powers the front tweeters. The non-Bose system does not have the amp and has a set of tweeters in parallel with the front door mounted mid-range speaker.

You can get easy access to the dash to mount the speakers (book calls for 2 1/2" size, haven't been in the confirm opening) but if you tap into the front door speaker wires, you can foul up the system, impedance wise. Are any of you electronics wizards to sort through this for us that want this mod?

If you put the tweeter (third speaker) in parallel, my rough calc's say's it needs to be 20ohm to keep the system at its 4 ohm range. Or should it be in series with the door speakers? I have some of the background details from the shop manual if someone can provide the technical expertise to size the system properly.

Any help out there?

Paul P

tsk3

Purchased in March 2002 Trailblazer. I am experiencing a knocking sound from the bottom of the engine on my TB, when first starting up (cold engine) for 5 minutes after which it seems to disappear. Is anyone else experiencing this with their TB, and if so, is this normal or is their a solution for it?

gam2

Bob K: Glad they fixed it, the fix is similar to mine except they replaced the part. I think this is a legit fix, rather than the fluid change attempt. I bet there are a lot of Bravada owners who don't realize they have a problem. Abnormal wear to the tires and driveline are the result of this problem.

GAM2

ficuss

tsk3: my TB LTZ has been making what I would describe as a harsh growling sound recently when the engine is cold. This is not to be confused with the roaring fan sound being heard by some. I have not figured out if it is caused by lower octane gas causing the engine knock detector to work harder or if it will lead to a more serious problem. I am not worrying about it though. I bought the extended G M warranty after my engine was replaced due to a bad cylinder sleeve. I'll continue taking it to the Chevy dealer for oil changes, and let them worry about it.

Frank

tonkadave

Anyone put bigger or wider tires on their Envoy. Im not crazy about how it looks from the back with those bulging fenders and then the skinny wheels sunk in there. I Wish the wheels would be as wide as the vehicle.

tblazed

I too hear a very light knock-knock-knock sound from my TB for the first few minutes til it warms up (built last Nov bought mid-Jan 02 now with 2100 miles on it.) I hear it especially in my quiet enclosed garage. Seems like most engines I have owned (even two Fords) tend to make some "extra" noises til warmed up. I changed the oil to a 10W-30 (Owners manual says OK above 0°F) and that reduced it. Not too concerned about it since this is related to the engine being cold and different metals contract and expand at different rates, and the slight knocking sound goes away within the 1st few minutes. I WILL become concerned if I begin to hear it after warm-up. From what I have read a mystery knock that does not go away, that was not there before, could be a precursor to a cylinder sleeve beginning to fail. I figure there is 3 years of warranty to see what happens. Let us know if you take it in and what they say.

cmack4

I switched to Mobil1 on my first oil change! KMart had a sell off on the Tri-Synthetic to make room for the new SuperSyn SL rated, so I went with the Tri-Syn... It came out to be $1.82 a quart, and they had 4 cases left, so I bought them all You'll see about .5mpg better fuel economy in addition to the other synthetic benefits. I plan on making the switch over to synthetic ATF as well at my first transmission service (probably 35K).

tblazed

My experience with synthetics- Mobil 1 and Amzoil too- has been it seems to "find" leaks! I have had this coincidence happen every time I switched. Not sure if the synthetics cause the gaskets and seals to shrink or contract, but with todays oils and the standards they have to meet, I think changing regular oil more frequently is better (unless you are running a turbocharged vehicle. Turbo bearings get unbelievably hot.) Synthetics get dirty just as fast as a top quality regular "dino" oil. Also, I have never seen any measurable gain in gas mileage after switching to synthetic. As far as trans oil, I have not checked the trans in the triplets but normally you cannot get all the trans oil out when you change it. A good portion up to maybe 1/2 the total capacity stays in the torque converter, so you will end up with a mix of two different types of oils. I think I'd wait til it is out of warranty. My 2¢ worth.