Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

quickdtoo

This symptom is not what the belt recall is about, but there is a tsb for the problem. The dealer will replace the passenger seat belt with a longer belt. Just tell the service writer the problem, don't mention that you know about the tsb, lest you have to if they don't respond. I had mine replaced for the same reason.

ericevans

Would anyone here happen to have a wiring diagram of the 24pin radio wire harness for the '02 Trailblazer LS? There is also the second harness I'd like to know about.

Thanks!

ericevans

I'll have to see if I can get them to replace it. Gotta get my rear wiper switched replaced also.

quickdtoo

See message #9182 for complete TSB text.

kackysmom

pepper50

On the 2002 Envoy, how do you open the headlight lens to replace a bulb if needed? I don't have to yet, but I got to looking the other day just out of curiosity to see how much of a chore it might be some day in the future when I'm out of warranty. Does anyone know all the steps necessary to do so? It also looks like quite a job to change a battery with that overlying support rod, one end of which is under the plastic cowl, which I presume would have to come up, too. Thanks.

01_hoe

No need to open any lens. The bulbs are replaced from behind the lens. If you want to take the whole headlamp assembly out, there are two metal rods on top of the assembly that you pull straight up and the whole assembly comes out. Takes way less that one minute to get the assembly out.

quickdtoo

See messages 6488 thru 6501, then decide for yourself.

paulpro

I put most of my miles on via Highway (70MPH) miles. A 3000 mile oil change is wasteful for me. I have been using about 6,000 miles. Most recently, using a Tech II, I checked the Oil Life monitor on my Envoy. After 6300 miles, it was showing 47% oil life remaining.

Does anyone have any experience on the accuracy or quality of this indicator?

I don't want to get into a flame war on whether I should be changing at 3,000 or 6,000 or what ever, I am looking for valid input on the oil life monitor.

I saw some articles that indicated a vehicle, under certain conditions, could go as much as 15,000 miles before the light would trigger. I think this may be stretching it, but, if at 6,000 miles, I've only used 1/2 of my oil life, a few more miles wouldn't hurt.

Physically, the oil doesn't look bad. It does show dirty but it's translucency is still there. Putting a drop on blotter paper and letting it spread doesn't show appreciable dirt.

Comments

Paul P

hardhawk

Paul, your experience with the monitor is about like mine. If left unchecked, I think many of us will have our monitors regularly go 10,000 miles or more without indicating the need for a change. My brother has an MB ML320 and his oil life monitor regularly goes over 10,000 miles before indicating that a change is needed. With the increased capacity of the crankcase and mostly highway driving, you probably can go longer than the 6,000 intervals you now use. My comments are based on my 2002 Envoy 4WD SLT with the 4.2 six engine. It will turn 3 on July 19th and I have about 34,800 miles on it now. Hope this helps!

stever

You can get an oil analysis for around $10. See Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2 for some links. I don't think you can really tell much about remaining life by looking at or smelling normal used oil.

I change my oil at 7,500 miles like my owner's manual says (ok, so I let it slide a 1,000 miles now and then <g>).

Steve, Host

ficuss

Would it be fair to say that an oil life monitor indicating 47% remaining usable oil life would also indicate oil is performing at 47% of original oil performance? What does the oil life expectancy meter actually tell us? Would I or should I want to drive with oil performing at only 50% of its original rating. An indicator is useless if its indicated results are not explained in plain English to the end user. A volt meter on most dashes is useless if the driver doesn't understand what a volt is and why the meter reads very low when the car is started. Cars have fuel gauges and some people still run out of gas because they think they are smarter than the gauge. BTW, how accurate are the fuel gauges on these cars? This oil life monitor might as well be an idiot light if the readings are not explained.

ross1962

Would it be fair to say that an oil life monitor indicating 47% remaining usable oil life would also indicate oil is performing at 47% of original oil performance?

I don't know, what does that say about me, being 41 years old at about 50% of my life expectancy? :-)

ficuss

I think you see where I am going with this. Your oil begins to degrade as soon as you start the car the first time after an oil change. The performance of the oil at 50% use may not be terrible for the car, but it isn't optimal. I believe marine life jackets must be replaced after so many years because they don't hold up (no pun) as well as when new. Oil that is less than 50% as effective as when new should probably be treated the same.
BTW, to bad they can't plug a Tech II instrument into one of our ports to determine useable life left. The only DIGITAL exam they have has nothing to do with computers!!!!!!!!!

gam2

I assume that means 47% of the acceptable life of the oil is used up. When the meter reads 0%, the oil is no longer capable of doing it's job within the mfg's limits.

I was looking at a car mag from the late '60's and most auto mfg's recommended oil changes every 5000 miles. I think oil has come a long, long way since then and we should be able to go at least that long without worry.

GAM

ficuss

The reading starts at 100% and decreases from there. A reading of 47% indicates life remaining, not life used up. I don't know if I would agree that todays oil products are that much better than those from the 60's. 10 w 30 is 10 w 30. the additives make a small difference. Todays cars run much hotter than the 60's cars. Most cars today have Air and more cramped engine compartments. Transverse mounted engines ensure unequal cooling by way of the cooling fan. IMO, the small cost of oil changes VS possible damage caused by less than optimal oil performance justifies more frequent not less frequent oil changes. One more thing, with self serve gas pumps now, how many times does the average driver check the oil level between oil changes. I would bet that most people never look under the hood of their cars anymore, they pull up to the pump, gas up and go.

scottc454

I have to chime in here. The statement that oil is the same as in the 60's is simply not true.
There's a whole mess of properties other than the 10w30 rating - things like high temperature oxidation resistance and film strength.

Engines last longer than ever these days. In fact, most motorcyles recommend that you do not break them in with synthetic oil. Why? Because it lubricates too well for the rings to seat.

As far as engines running hotter - running an engine too cool will cause more engine wear.

Let's at least be somewhat logical and scientific about this instead of believing the 3000 mile myth. There's an extra 2 quarts of oil in these things too. That ought to count for something.

Anway, most people get rid of their cars long before the engines wear out. Things like A/C compressors, fuel pumps, alternators, power steering pumps, and water pumps start dying and it gets to be a real pain replacing all those.

bertman48

Whenever I play a CD in my '03 TB, the Radio/CD unit gets really hot, as does the CD. Is this typical or is this a symptom that a fan is not working, thus not displacing the heat?

01_hoe

I have seen this concern posted either here or on another forum. I don't recall seeing a fix.

tony10

I have a 2003 GMC Envoy and have had radio problems 3 times in 15 months. The first two times there were loud cracking noises on the speakers or a very loud squeal. Last week when I started it, the radio was totally dead. The next day the radio would come on again. It's been dead the past 3 days, so I took it back to the dealer. They are ordering another new radio for the 3rd time! Is there a wiring problem causing the radio or amp to short out? I don't want to have to replace the radio every 6 months once the warranty runs out.

ross1962

Transverse mounted engines ensure unequal cooling by way of the cooling fan.

The fan cools the fluid in the radiator, which is then circulated throughout the engine's water jackets to cool the engine.

BTW, oil is the 60's was prone to viscosity breakdown (Changes to the thickness of the oil), among other things, resulting in accelerated engine wear. In addition, multi-viscosity oil was not yet available. Another cause of pre-mature engine wear due to old oil is dirty oil. Eventually, the filter loses its ability to adequately clean the oil.

ficuss

so what does the 47% mean? Is the oil only 47 % as effective as it was when new. What is the cut off point on the DIC readout when you should replace the oil?
 You seem to imply that air flow over the engine has no effect on engine cooling. I don't know if I buy into that. We were always told that keeping the exterior of the engine clean would promote better cooling. Certainly, the oil is not water cooled.
 Getting back to the original question of oil change intervals, I still maintain more frequent oil changes will never hurt you. Why spent 30 to 45K dollars on a car and then get cheap with oil changes?

scottc454

so what does the 47% mean? Is the oil only 47 % as effective as it was when new.

Someone already said it best - it's got 47% of its lifetime left. After that, it no longer meets the minimum specs needed for adequate lubrication. For all we know, that could be 90% as effective as when it was new. It's like replacing tires. Certainly they're not at 0% of their effectiveness when you replace them.

Why spend 30 to 45K dollars on a car and then get cheap with oil changes?

It's not always a case of being cheap. I use synthetic oil and respect the engineers who wrote the manual that says when to change the oil. I don't believe the people that are in the oil change business and I have better things to do than change oil all the time. With 66000 miles in 3 years, I'd be my own Jiffy Lube if I changed oil every 3000 miles. Make no mistake, when I get to 300,000 miles and the engine still runs fine, I will have proved my point.

adamjeeps

ScottC: You really plan to keep your vehicle to 300,000 miles? I personally have not seen anyone I know make it that far. My boss's Volvo made it to 285,000 or so before electrical gremlins forced him to get rid of her. I wonder whom here has the most mileage on their TB/Envoy?

dlare

The oil life monitor in the Trailblazers is rather meaningless anyway. It doesn't 'test' the oil or sense the oil's condition, it just CALCULATES the oil's life (based on the number of miles driven, engine loading, temperatures, etc) since the last time the idiot light has been reset.

Dean

jac27

I'm sure I don't have the most in a triplet, but I do have around 65K on my '02 Bravada. Had the usual problems with mirrors, front transfer case, and front suspension, but overall it has been a very reliable vehicle. I use Mobil 1 and pretty much follow manufaturers recommendations. Since Olds had the free 60K warranty, I am just off of it and am hoping for no major problems.

bradrx7

Being a throwback, old school hot rod guy... I am looking at some American Torq-Thrust II wheels to put on my 03 TB EXT v8. I know the size is 17x7, but does anyone have info off-hand on backspacing and bolt pattern size? I can measure the wheels myself, but it would be easier if one of you guys had the data handy. Thanks in advance.

01_hoe

Bolt size is 6 X 5. Here is a pic of them in 20" size.

scottc454

Maybe not 300,000. 200,000 at least. The real plan is to get a car after a certain time and still keep the Trailblazer for practical needs.

Anyway, I must thank you for supporting my previous theory. Your boss got rid of his Volvo for problems other than the engine going bad.

bradrx7

Your envoy looks nice, thanks. Any idea on backspacing?

ficuss

your point is well taken, but when you get to 300,000 miles in 10.6 years, will it be because of less frequent oil changes or the synthetic oil that the GM engineeres did NOT specify to use?

01_hoe

Which size of wheel, 17" or ?
http://www.americanracing.com/appguide/final.asp?section=app&- detail=60488556&descript=18X8%2E5+SPORT+TRUCK+TT+6X5&pict- ure=604&make=CHEVY/GMC%20TRUCK/VAN/SUV&model=ENVOY+17%22+- WHEELS+2001%2DPresent&Comments=&softid=&sort=75&b- rand=americanracing

bradrx7

Thanks. That was exactly what I needed.

scottc454

They did NOT specify to use it but they did NOT specify to NOT use it. I'd be concerned if GM specified to NOT use it.

gam2

I guess we can beat this to death. 3000 miles is a big waste of time and money, not to mention oil. I'm changing at 5000 miles with conventional oil. That's half of what the DIC suggests so I'm guessing that changing the oil at twice the rate the factory suggests will do no harm. Only the oil change places and the dealers recommend 3000 mile oil changes and you know what they are after, your $$$$$$$! Then again, if it makes you feel good, do it.

GAM

ficuss

tha last unanswered question is how often does the average driver check the oil level now. I for one don't check the level often enough, depending on the 3000 mile interval to protect me.

scottc454

I don't know if it's just the 2002's that have this, but there is a low oil level indicator. Last time I changed my oil, I put 5 quarts in and verified that it functions. I did not test it with 6 quarts.
This is a good feature.

ross1962

ScottC: You really plan to keep your vehicle to 300,000 miles?

I'm anxious to see how long these engines last. The inline 6 design has a proven longevity record, but this one may not last as long as older designs due to aluminum block, higher compression and other features designed to get more horsepower and better efficiency.
In the 60's and 70's, it was not unheard of to get 300,000 miles out of a slant, or straight 6 if you took good care of it and drove it easy.

We will have to wait and see!

twinrotts

I did some searching and did not find exactly what I was looking for so please tolerate this question which will appear as a throw-back.
Noticed for the 1st time this week a change in climate control operation.
Car sits out during the work day in the sun, I start up and have A/C immediately. Outside temp guage reads hotter than outside temp, but quickly begins to adjust once I start moving.
Drive for a distance, and shut down. Start back up and have cool air from A/C immediately, put the "outside" temp guage reads 50.
Guage stays at 50 for several minutes and then begins to rapidly correct itself. At some point in this adjustment, the A/C blower finds a higher speed.
Can this be one of those pressure switch issues?
2002 TB EXT

n7don

Not sure I fully understand your question. The outside temperature gauge updates as a function of speed. Slower speed, longer time between updates. At lower speed there can be some backwash of hot air thru the radiator that can give a false high reading.

twinrotts

Thanks for your thoughts n7.
My issue is that the outside temp gauge is reading much lower than the actual temp, which it should not do. It is very common for it to start out reading higher after sitting with stagnant air.
I'm not sure if this is a possible thermocouple issue or whatever they are using to sense outside temp. It is definitely tied into A/C operation as I believe the outside temp is one of the several inputs processed to determine how to respond to cabin temp.
As I said, this condition just appeared last week both times after driving for a distance, shutting down and re starting.
The first time, there was a 2hr down time, the second time a 10" down time. Both times everything corrected itself within a few minutes of driving. I am assuming this will only get worse with time and was hoping to have some insight prior to calling the dealer

baltychen

My trailerblazer now hits 28000 miles and recently I noticed that at every initial starts there was a roller ball bearing noise coming from the hood. I can hear it from my driver seat. And it went away after two to three seconds. I took the truck to the dealer and they couldn't locate the problem. The writer told me he couldn't hear a thing. The truck went well on the road. I am planning to use a recorder to record the noise.

Anyone has the same problem? I will be appreciated if some one can help. Thanks first.

igystarr

I have had the same problem with my '02 SLT but I only notice it after I fill up the tank. I don't know if it's the hose that goes from the filler to the tank. I checked it out it seemed ok. Not sure if maybe the gas is seeping through the hose causing the smell???

pete2002

I used to change my oil/filter every 3-4K. Now that I have done some outside lab testing on oil samples for several oil change outs at various intervals, I am a converted believer of extended use. The oil is good for over 8K miles. The only thing that concerned me was the oil filter. The lab recommended a higher quality filter because insolubles were getting to close to the listed allowed limit. I now use a mobil one filter and synthetic oil. I plan to let the computer prompt me for my next change out.

ross1962

...a roller ball bearing noise coming from the hood.

Are you sure it's coming from under the hood? Do you just hear it from the inside? There's a very common problem with noise coming from the tachometer that kind of sounds like that. It's benign, but a little annoying.

There's another common noise problem with many GM engines, including our I6 and that is piston slap. Also benign, yet annoying.

The third possibility would be the water pump.

mcafee1

I have the same problem on my 2002 TB. It started during some hot weather several weeks back and is getting worse. When starting out for the day the outside temp appears to be correct or maybe on the low side. After stopping for a few minutes and then starting again the outside temp reads 50 (always 50), sometimes recovers in 10 min and sometimes much longer. Prior to this the temp readout worked just as in the book. The HVAC fan speed is also affected, so the temp is an input to to the HVAC control. Maybe also has effect an the engine control??

hsche

Hello all. I have a 2003 Envoy XL SLE. I am extremely happy with the car. Find it to be more practical (cargo wise) than the other mid-size three row trucks that we looked at.
Recently, the driver side front door guard came up a little at the front of the door (closes to the bumper). Every time I open the door, it gets bent back further. I brought it in for service this morning and the guy told me that it is not under warranty. Does anybody out there have a similar problem - was it covered? not covered? why? if its not covered, any ideas on how to fix?

Thanks

wlbrown9

Hum. How many months has it been in service? How may miles? The GM warranty seems to say that everything except specifically excluded items are covered for 24 months regardless of mileage under the bumper to bumper warranty. Unless there is some special circumstance, I would assume this would be covered under that clause or under the 36/36,000 warranty.

What are you calling the door guard? I'm not sure what you mean? Body side moulding to protect against dings perhaps? If it is that, I would think it would be covered.

Not knowing all the details, hard to say. But if I thought it should be covered according to the warranty statement, I would contact GM if the dealership continues to claim it is not covered.

dse1

Anyone had the fuel filter connectors come loose (not completely off, but enough to drip a lot of gas) while driving? Mine (2002TB) just recently came loose while driving on the freeway - luckily no source to ignite the gas since the back end and underbody were dripping gasoline (fuel filter replaced ~8k miles before this). There was a recall on this, but only for certain VINs, which mine was not one of (they claim 130000 vehicles were affected). I filed a complaint with NHTSA, and talked to Chevy but they claim it's not under recall for my vehicle and I'll need to pay to fix their (known) defect since I'm out of warranty... happened at 41.5k miles, so beware, it's a timebomb ticking ... I feel bad for whoever was driving behind me...

wpkelleysr

02 - TB. 71K miles and doing about 36K a year. I'm planning, not just hoping, for at LEAST 300K