Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

sabotage

No it just shifts really har into second, not like the smooth shfts prior to the problem....Work great last week and disconected the battery for a while and plugged it back in and i swear the pcm reset it self but the dealer says no way..

gmfan

Not that I try often, but I cannot get my TB to smoke or bark the tires, even just a little, when I stomp on it from a dead standstill. Does anyone's? Don't get me wrong, the TB is quick (when rolling), but mine is dog off the line.

tblazed

There is something possible that happened when you disconnected the battery. These have "adaptive shift control" that makes adjustments on the fly, that are stored in memory. Maybe try disconnecting the battery for 35 min or so ( that's what the manual says) to clear and reset things. Then you need to drive it so it can relearn the adapts.

Here's the description from the 4L60-E overview:

ADAPTIVE SHIFT CONTROL
The 4L60-E uses sophisticated electronics to modify shift patterns as conditions dictate. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) monitors factors such as throttle position, vehicle speed, gear range, temperature and engine load. The PCM also measures changes in the operating condition of the vehicle, which occur naturally over time as components wear. Based on these measurements, shift timing and hydraulic line pressure are adapted to maintain optimum shift feel under different conditions - for example, during heavy hauling or trailering. This results in improved drivability and fuel economy. The PCM also allows the system to self-adjust for minor variations in each new unit, ensuring that every customer experiences consistent performance, and ensuring that the transmission will produce a constant high level of performance for the life of the car.

tblazed

You're welcome... I posted those part numbers to help encourage you to buy these new if you are going to do that. If you did find some decent used take-offs, you’d have to deal with the remnants of the old adhesive stuff that would be stuck to them, and then find a suitable adhesive tape to remount them. I took off just the Trailblazer and Chevrolet emblems on my liftgate. It wasn't too difficult cutting through the foam adhesive with nylon string once I got it started, but cleaning off all the remaining sticky foam tape stuff from the painted surface took patience... and some naphtha to loosen and dissolve the old adhesive.

sabotage

Where in the manual is that located???? gm techs @ dealership said that disco'n battery does nothing..Should I disco both postive and negative and is there a trick, like turning on the headlights and doin that??Thanks Sabotage

01_hoe

Welcome to dogsville. The 4.2L I-6 PCM has total control, and it will not let you smoke the tires. It's called Torque Management, and this engine IS managed! The throttle does not even open all the way till 3000 rpms. Notice no red line on the tach? The computer controls all. It keeps you safe

stever

GM & Ford will have to reduce their debt and the only way to do that is to sell cars and trucks

RealMoney says it's not selling cars and trucks that's the problem but funding health care. Although I don't have a subscription so I wasn't able to read anything but the abstract.

GM & Ford also have financing arms and other assets they can sell - Ford can cash out Hertz for example. Interesting times - Chinese motors are winding up in Equinoxes. (Inside Line)

Steve, Host

fandb

What would everyone prefer more, a Trailblazer SS or a Trailblazer Z71
Thank You for your input

sabotage

I love the look of the SS, very sporty and very fast.....I would love to have a suv that could beat alot of cars @ a red light!!! Just 2 cents

tblazed

When I run across that again will let you know. It was either in the GM Service Information, or in a GM Techlink article. Disconnecting the negative terminal will kill the power.

aldan

I can only be humble about WAAG products holding up, I have the tail- light guards and after 2 winters they are starting to peal in places and rust, I would not recommend these again. Pay top dollar for these, anything made in California is not designed for North East winters, even if it states it is!!!

The clunking noise, is the front swaybar links, they get loose and clunk, get it fixed or buy the part and do it yourself this is not a hard fix. But it is an annoying noise.

The trailblazer is holding up well. Mileage is still around 17MPG 50/50

aldan

You have a dirty valve body, easy fix, very common!

sabotage

do not know if you were replying to my thread, but after 2000 miles, this happens???? Cannot find where to find service bulletins for this problem, like the dealership said...the truck drives fine except for 1 -2 gear and 3-4 is almost normal..Seems like the rpms and something else are off!!!! I really want my baby CHARLENE back in running @ %100... They sent a flash to the pcm to fix the hard shift but still is the same..As you said this is common?? but only after 2400 miles???? Also the transmission fluid was 1 and 1/2 quarts over!!!! drained a little out and still did it!!! thanks, Jim :sick:

aldan

I would say it is the drive shaft, I had mine replaced when it was new, if it is out of warranty take it to a speed shop to get it balanced!!!! I know exactly what you talking about, mine was between 45 and 50ish and re appeared around 65-70. When it upshifted around 44 it would do it, but as soon as they replaced the shaft all vibrations went away. Dealer stated shaft was within GM Specs and could not figure out why I could feel it. It was frustrating but it was the shaft!!!

01_hoe

TrailBlazer SS here. With the front driveshaft going thru the oil pan, a Z71 would be hard to do correctly.

tblazed

Found it documented. Was in my GM Service Info as a TSB-

This is in my GM 2002 service info. I think the same would work on a 2004.

Document ID # 793757
Tech 2 Information on 4L60-E Shift Adapts (Clearing Shift Adapts)
#01-07-30-018 Issued 04-18-2001

2002 Chevrolet Trailblazer

2002 GMC Envoy

2002 Oldsmobile Bravada

with 4L60-E Automatic Transmission (RPO M30)

and 4.2 L Engine (VIN S -- RPO LL8)

The above listed vehicles have PCM software that does not allow the Tech 2 to display or clear shift adapts. Even though the shift adapts will not display, they will function as expected. Since the shift adapts modify line pressure, it is required to clear them during a significant transmission repair.

Important
If the adapts are not cleared, the customer may comment on either soft or harsh shifts after a major repair.

To clear the shift adapts, it is necessary to disconnect power to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) for 35 minutes. Refer to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Replacement procedure in the Service Information.

twinrotts

Had the very same issue but 3X the trouble with the front and rear bumper bars failing as well.
I took everything off this spring and took to the local paint shop for a blast and repaint. Everything back on now and I'm a happy camper with $200 less in my pocket.
When the tail light cages were painted the bodyshop removed the lens tape anchors. The nice folks at WAAG mailed me 4 replacements for free.
I did write them to tell them about the "indestructible" powder coat that is not!!
They thanked me for the feedback and supplied the parts.

gmfan

It depends. I like the idea of a 6.0L in the SS. If you can stiffen the ride of Z71 and include the 5.3L, then you have a winner in my book. I used to own a 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.2L with the High Country suspension package. It gave the vehicle a one inch lift from stock and offered a stiffer ride around town, but I knew I would not be replacing the suspension. I kid you not, when I get rid of that vehicle at 130K miles, the suspension components were still tight as the day I drove off the lot. The current stock suspension on my 2002 TB is too spongy- however, I have gotten used to it. I personally like a more active suspension even it delivers a less smooth ride around town. If it was not for a $3,000 electrical problem/malfunction with the JGC, I would be still driving that vehicle today, but that was the last of Chryser in my books. However, I would not buy a Z71 Trailblazer if it did not have come with the 5.3L. Don't get me wrong, the 4.2 is a good engine, but it needs to have stronger torque.

raleigh

twinrotts - The moral to this story is don't believe everything you read -- especially if it is on the internet. What you hearing is what is also known as "the Italian tune-up" -- useful on Alfas and Ferraris and such that have been lugged around in city traffic -- usually in high gear! There really is no need for such measures with most modern engines -- especially engines that lean more toward the draft horse than thoroughbred side. Still, I think it does no harm to give it a little work out on occasion. It blows out the pipes and may help seat the rings if done just after break-in (not keep them free of carbon). It should also put a smile on your face. :P

ross1962

It's an inline 6. Usually these aren't real torquey on the low end. Try it in a BMW and you'll see the same thing. The V-6 in my '93 Blazer was another story. Easy to wear out the tires in that one!

gam2

Just got back from a 2200 mile trip with my '03 Envoy. Good news, 21 mpg for the trip. Bad news, I spent 2 hours the first night in the Motel parking lot trying to fix the brake lights. They would NOT turn off. This is the second time. I guess the dealer didn't fix it the first time. Also, when I got home, I noticed rust and peeling paint on the inside of the rear doors. Arrrggghhh! This just is NOT right! Can GM really be this bad????

Greg

gam2

This is so funny I could.............
The cruise on my Envoy didn't work on the way home. Come to find out the brake lights are stuck on again and won't let the cruise work. Drive it right to the dealer. They have no brake light switch in stock and want to talk to tech services as this is the 2nd time this has happened. They arrange for a loaner. The rental company comes to pick up someone else but forgets me. Finally, they come back and get me. I get to the rental car company where they tell me they can only give me a GM vehicle as that is all GM will pay for. They are out of GM vehicles except for a 1 ton Chevy cargo van. Guess what I get, a flower delivery vehicle. Guess who's vehicle shopping this upcoming weekend.............enough is enough.

GAM

gmfan

Sorry to hear your troubles. Is is the same thing as the brake light circuit recall GM did a while ago on the triplets? Or is it a seperate item? The rental car needs to be comprable to what you are driving and this is not acceptable in my book. The dealer needs to compensate you with some measure. Dealer needs to have rental backup plans when their rental agency cannot accomodate its customers. I do not buy that rental car agency bull that they can only put you in a GM!!!!. Twice in the three years of owning my TB, I have driven a Ford F-150 quad cab and a Tahoe as rentals. Guess what, the dealer pays Enterprise and it does not matter. The more I read your post, the more angry I get!!! Turn up the volume and start making some noise.

gmfan

gam2

I've already had the tail lamp recall done. This is the switch on the pedal itself.
It get's so hot from being on all the time I'm surprised it doesn't start a fire.

This whole situation is extremely frustrating. GM replaced my Bravada with the Envoy because of numerous problems and this one isn't much better. I expect more from a $38K vehicle. No complaints with the dealer. They have been good to work with. I'm jealous of all you out there with good ones!

GAM

ficuss

gam2, Greg, channel that anger energy and drive directly to any dealer other than a GM dealer. GM will eventually feel the anger. I did just that and have been much calmer for 2 months now. My Mitsu. 05' Endeavor has been everything I expected the TB to be and better at that, and I still don't know my Mitsu. dealer mechanics by name.

macatowa

I have an 03 TB w/60 k and my stabilizer links are bad and have been bad for a while. I like my truck and love the way it drives and the only problem I have had was the a/c cut out (warranty) and the rear tail lights (warranty. That said it ticks me off that GM could not and does not (Dodge does the same thing) make suspension components that can be lubrcated!, why do Oil Changes say "lube oil and filter" when no one lubes anymore and parts break. How many metal on metal part are going to last in Michigan or anywhere else for that mater? This is also why the Dodge Durango that I just got rid of got recalled. WAKE UP BIG THREE OR YOU WILL BE KNOWN AS THE LITTLE THREE. Stop trying to save pennies at my later expense, or we''ll all be driving foreign!

gam2

Well, the brake light switch didn't come in but the dealer gave me one of their cars to replace the cargo van. I'm driving the official car of AARP, a Buick Century (no offense to AARP members). I feel like I'm a Century old but I've forgotten how quiet a vehicle can be.

GAM

tblazed

Why not just replace the worn links? You can get Moog replacements that have grease fittings for about $20 each.

Also I thought the Dodge Durango had problems with the front upper ball joints coming apart, with the potential of a wheel falling off as a result. As I recall from the news coverage, a defect Daimler-Chrysler tried to ignore. Worn stabilizer bar links making noise do not pose a hazzard to your life, like a wheel falling off. When Trailblazers were first sold in 2001, GM recognized a suspension problem right away and fixed the problem before anyone got hurt and NHTSA had to force the issue.

gam2

Oh boy, let's not go there! Why should I have to replace the links on a 20K mile vehicle in the first place, much less with parts from the aftermarket? Why did they
do a recall on my vehicle for tail lights/brake lights that would not go on when they can't figure out how to make mine go off? They announced another recall today for the triplets because the turn signal may activate both sets of lights (looks like your hazards are on). This is simple stuff that should have been perfected 50 years ago!

On another, funny note, when I told 7 or 8 people here at work that my loaner was the official car of AARP, they ALL said "you must be driving a Buick". Now there's a reputation I'd like to have. I bet GM goes bankrupt in less than 5 years.

GAM

ficuss

gam2 is right, if a person wants to customize his car that's fine. GM should have designed these parts to last a lot longer than they have in the first place. GM probably owns several after market parts suppliers and this is their way of getting back the discounts they give us to buy the underdesigned parts. Make money in the repair parts business in addition to the manufacturing and sales bus. It's no better than old fashioned bait and switch. Then again, Chevy trucks never have had very strong front end parts to begin with. I test drove a used Chevy full size van many years ago and it made the same clunking sound that the triplets do now.
GM should follow the carpenters rule, measure twice cut once.

tblazed

Why should I have to replace the links on a 20K mile vehicle in the first place

I responded to macatowa with 60,000 miles. At 20k, those should have been covered by your warranty. Of course these should not normally need replacement at only 20k miles; that's what the warranty is for.

Aftermarket replacement parts- why not, if they are possibly improved or have something you miss, like grease fittings. Moog-Federal Mogul makes a lot of OEM parts BTW. Stabilizer bar links and bushings, like brake pads and tires, will wear out eventually, some sooner, some later, depending on how and where you drive.

snoking

OK, I asked this on the Rainier forum, but the Rainier or so quiet that everyone is asleep over there.

I would be cool if we could figure out how to add a button on the dash of the Rainier AWD units to lock them into 4WD. Anyone have a shop manual and knowledge to look at this issue. I also just call the transfer case company, now Magna Drivetrain and they let me leave a message with the sales department for someone to call me.

I wonder if others are using this 126 transfer case with better results.

Little afraid at this point to send my wife up skiing with the reports I have read about it.

SNOKING

njfilmmaker25

The lights in my Rear Spoiler went out. Are they LED lights or is is a bulb? Does anyone know how you would go about replacing or fixing them? Truck wont pass inspection because of it.

macatowa

That is exactly what i'm going to do next week, and yes I'm going with the Moog because they can be greased, Mine started to make noise just out of warranty. I like my Truck it is a good ride, and I spend 2 -3 hrs per day in it, but why make parts that you know will fail and chance loosing a customer to another brand. This was my first GM purchase and I'm 45 years old. My point is win people over with features and benefits and good old fashoined durability "like a rock" not sandstone. As far as the Durango goes those upper ball joints failed for the same reason (no grease),
BTW my dealer had not heard of too many links failing but he could fix me up for a mere $500. I'm having a private mechanic fix it for less than $150. What snakes!

longdistancetb

I think its one long tube light. I priced one and it is between $50-$100 depending on your dealer parts discount (if any). It is easy accessible via the rear glass.

gam2

Snoking,

Don't fear sending her up in the snow. My Bravada had the same drivetrain and was good in the snow.

GAM

gam2

Tblazed,

I want to like my Envoy but it just has so many problems that shouldn't exist. The Bravada was even worse. The drivetrain is great and I like the styling. I stopped at the body shop to see about the rust on the inside of the doors. The body guy said he seen several like mine. '03 vehicles with rust problems? Maybe with '70's technology but not today. Oh well, I guess I have a decision to make. Unfortunately, I've lost over 50% of the value of the car as a trade in in 2 years.

GAM

gam2

WRONG! I still have my Envoy. Just got it back from the dealer yesterday read the posts). GM gave me an Envoy to replace my lemon Bravada (32 days out of service in the first 9 months for over 15 different problems). Now I see mine is being recalled again. Like I said, I'm jealous of those with good ones. I've got 2 bad ones in a row.

GAM

snoking

You should have an exented warranty for rust issues. Have you talked to the dealer? SNOKING

gam2

Yeah, the rust is covred under warranty. The dealer said they have fixed several Envoys already. Must be more common than we thought.

GAMM

bobed2121

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Moody's Investors Service on Thursday sent Ford Motor Co.'s credit to the brink of junk status a week after fellow ratings agency Standard & Poor's slapped a non-investment grade rating on the struggling automaker.

tidester

Were you looking for News & Views?

tidester, host

ndmike88

When I dropped my '03 TB off at the dealers last night the mileage was 19,797. Today I picked it up (after hours). They replaced the instrument cluster, and I noticed the mileage is 19,005. 792 miles LESS than when I brought it in for service. Before I call the dealer in the morning, can someone here please explain this to me. :confuse:

ficuss

Not knowing where the mileage figure is stored makes it impossible to determine exactly what is going on. If the mileage is stored in the instrument cluster memory, then the new clusters' memory had to be set to the mileage you went in with. If so, they got close and said good enough. If the mileage is stored deep in the cars operating system, you picked up the wrong car.

01_hoe

The new cluster had to be programmed. This was possibly done at an offsite GM repair shop. I am assuming that you had the vehicle in once before and they said the cluster needs replacing. They ordered a cluster and probably guesstimated what miles you would have on your vehicle when you returned for the installation of the new cluster. Looks like they were off a little. Some dealers can program at the dealership, maybe they just made a ops if this was the case. May have put the new one at 19K and test drove to make sure the cluster was ok.
I think the PCM and or the BCM also retain the mileage of the vehicle.

raleigh

You're right again, tblazed. A mechanic friend has a new Durango ... and he said the ball joints were total crap -- smaller, in fact, than the ones on my Alfa sedan. He replaced them with Moog parts.

That said, I am amazed at all the whining on this board about seemingly insignificant things not working properly (brake lights, noisy stabilizer bar links, etc., etc.) on what is a very complex vehicle. People seem to expect perfection in everything these days, but I think those expectations are not very realistic. Just take a run through some of the complaints about other makes on these boards .... And quityourbitchin. If you don't like what you got, get something else and be done with it. :sick:

raleigh

Thought I'd share a few thoughts on my trek this afternoon to Fed Ex field (home of the Deadskins) where GM was holding its "Auto Show in Motion." This is a chance to drive all of GM's products on "courses" set up on the enormous parking lots that ring Fed Ex field ... and to compare them to the competition. There were so many vehicles that the courses were necessarily pretty short ... maybe a half mile twisting thru cones, with a couple of short straights for braking and acceleration. Even so, it was very well run and you had a chance to at least get briefly acquainted with a wide range of vehicles.

I drove 3 -- the Cadillac V-6 SRX, the Cadillac CTS-V (which is the competitor to BMW's M-5 with the 400 HP Corvette engine from last year's ZO-6), and just for the heck of it, a wagon that I have always liked, the Saab 9-5. I absolutely loved both Cadillacs! The SRX is a definite "buy." I loved the handling and the V-6 engine is plenty strong and supported nicely by the transmission. It had the $1,800 super sunroof that extends almost the length of the vehicle. Makes it almost like driving a convertible! The CTS-V was also a stunner -- wonderful handling, wonderful brakes, incredible acceleration. I want one! The Saab was nice, but not in the same league with these two. I wanted to drive the new Corvette, but there were too many people lined up for a ride. Ditto for some of the competitors -- particularly a couple of BMWs. You also get a ticket for a free lunch!

All in all, this must have cost GM a bundle ... and they are putting on these dog and pony shows at several venues across the country. I hope it helps their sales. Incredible as it may seem, based on their respective stock prices, Harley Davidson is now worth more than GM! (That's as whacky as paying some kid millions of bucks to play ball.) In fact, just 1 year of Toyota's profits would buy all of GM! Should that translate into some good deals? You betcha! (Anyone want to buy a lightly used 04 Envoy with lots of goodies on it?)

gam2

Raleigh,

Uh, what planet are you from? Really? Non functioning brake lights insignificant?
Are you completely out of your mind? I suppose if I get rear ended on the freeway because of that it's insignificant. GM can't figure out how to do turn signals either, based on their latest recall. This stuff should have been perfected 75 years ago.

Hyundai learned how to make a better car and now they are at the top of their class. Can't I expect my $38K GM to be as good as a $15K Hyundai? I can't afford to get a different vehicle as the resale sucks so bad that I'm barely ahead of the game. How PO'd would you be if your 2 year old vehicle was rusting. GM just doesn't get it and neither do you!

GAM

raleigh

GAM =

So why didn't you buy a Hyundai and save 15 Grand ... and a lot of grief? (A non-functioning brake light can be remedied in 5 minutes by changing the bulb.)

ross1962

You're killin me here! Hyundai is better than GM? Not on this planet. And honestly, I don't know why you paid $38K. Must have made the salesman's day! He could have bought himslef a Hyundai with the fish he reeled in!