Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

akajoe

Here are some links to articles about the I6. One is on the GMC Envoy site. Cast iron sleeves is a big plus - aluminum pistons in contact with aluminum cylinders is a high friction interface. Rub a piece of aluminum against another and you'll get the idea.

http://www.autoaluminum.org/latimes.htm

http://www.gmc.com/envoy/oakland_press.html

Casting sleeves in place, or pressing them in place are two methods in use for mating iron sleeves with aluminum blocks. Both are "dry" sleeve designs where coolant does not come in contact with the sleeves.

The old GM Buick Aluminum V8 used the cast-in method back in 1955. After bean counters got to it, GM discontinued the engine, but Range Rover licensed it and developed it (still in use) for the Land Rover. Talk about being way ahead of their time...

The new I6 uses the lost foam casting method where a styro-foam block in the exact shape of the block is packed in very fine grain sand forms. The molten aluminum is poured in causing the foam to vaporize while being displaced by the aluminum in such a way that the sand form does not distort. The result is a near final casting that requires very little machining. This technique was developed by Saturn. However, it makes cast-in sleeves difficult to do. Instead, they press-in.

But to get a tight fit and not damage the aluminum cylinder during the press-fit, they supercool the sleeve, slide it in, align and clamp it in place, and warm it back up. Presto!

footballfan777

tlauro,

Yes, I'm inferior because I chose an Exploder versus a triplet. I have such a deep longing to own one, but I simply couldn't afford it. And excuse me for visiting this forum, but I considered buying a triplet, and as a consumer who likes to be informed, I tend to stay in touch. My observations of this board compared to the Explorer board lead me to believe triplet owners are having many more problems than Explorer owners. Just an observation. And you talk of a "road rager", yet you take great pride in the fact you shut him down, so who is the person suffering from "road rage"? Now let me get to the point.

I'll put up $500 clams against your Snailblazer, or Convoy, or Enchilada or whatever it is you own, in any sort of duel you want. Bring the thing to Oklahoma City and challenge me. I'll race you 0-60, 1/4 mile, or trailer towing. I have four trailers to choose from, but one is a 4X8 utility which doesn't weigh anything, and one is my boat, which I won't allow you to tow. But we can do the comparison with either my 16' trailer (1500 lbs empty) or my wife's hoss trailer (2500 lbs empty). So you make the choice...you beat me in any duel, and I'll give you $500. I beat you, and you give me $500. Just so you know we have an 02 2WD with V8 and tow package. And this is only offered if yours is completely stock.

I'm waiting tlauro

sunpirate

I have the same tinny sound as you. Mine seems to be in the same place and it's coming from the right side of the dash.Let me know rkh19 what the dealer finds out.It's very annoying when you don't have the radio on.I have a LT Trailblazer with 700 miles.Thanks,
Sunpirate

dindak

You must be one die hard Ford or nothing guy. Let's face it, both trucks are very good and they both have their faults. Fact is, neither is vastly superior so you mite want to stop with the ridiculous comments. Drag racing SUVs in OK city, what are you, 18 years old? Is this your idea of SUV superiority??

Take a read through the September issue Motor Trend truck shoot out. The Explorer is in the hunt, but it's nothing superior.

pdqgp

Well footballfan keep waiting as I wouldn't drive to OK for $500 if you gave it to me just for doing it...so your challenge is pointless.

I wasn't calling you inferior for owning a Ford, just for trolling our section and adding some less than smooth comments. It happens everywhere and this is by far a much less intense board than others I frequent & moderate.

When it comes to dragging these model SUV's, probably won't happen in either your world or mine unless you compare time slips. The crowed and following just isn't around yet. I'll be posting mine on my site shortly.

Overall, the V8 you have is so close. Stock for Stock it's going to boil down to driver and track conditions in a controlled environment anyway. I've yet to see one slaughter the other.

Regarding modifications...too late. I don't believe in keeping them stock. So far just a typical CAI has been installed, Next is a reprogrammed PCM to modify computer controls, the Exhaust will follow but there are few part fabrications that manufacturers are finalizing before I'll move forward. That's the downside to have a brand new model. According to all, they should be ready by year end.

Best guess is by next summer, I estimate low 15's in the 1/4 and an extra 35-45 hp. Not too shabby for an SUV.

Why? some ask....because I can and it's fun. I'm not into wild looking modifications or loud dual pipes out the back, as I tend to keep the appearance and function very close to stock, but the changes are simple and the abilities pretty much endless. Why settle for average is how I see it.

As the vehicles progress and issues come up...I've actually seen more serious issues within the Ford and Mercury models posted just within the Town Hall sections than with our triplets, but then that's my observation.

In closing, we all suffer from an occasional stomp of the pedal. That's not road rage. The fellow in the Ford passing people on the right and weaving through traffic...I'm sure he has other issues besides road rage. For me, it was a stay in the left lane and enjoy the fields as I zipped down the highway while showing him I wasn't an easy one to cut off. Call it what you will, cetainly not something I'm bragging about. Especially since it really wasn't much in the way of a contest from a roll.

Enjoy the SUV.

tim

redline65

Can a Trailblazer really do 1/4 mile in 15.765 seconds? I didn't think an SUV could go that fast (other than those little ones with the V8's from BMW and Mercedes). The Trailblazer must be the fastest in its class!

stu13

Just received my new 2002 Trailblazer on August 7th. It has been in the dealership ever since. The problem is a severe whistling noise coming from what the foreman says is one or more dry seals somewhere underneath the car.

If anyone has this problem or knows how to fix this please respond. The dealership had the car up and reproduced the noise. The mechanic started lubricating the seals, the noise stopped.

Took the car home and as usual about 20 miles into the ride home the noise started again.

vfont

I've posted before about a problem with my Envoy intermittently not accepting gas. Someone said they thought it was vapor lock. Until today I was always able to get gas into the tank by turning the gas pump nozzle upside down. Today, however, the pump turned off after about 3 gallons went in and I could not get any more gas into the tank. The filler tube would fill up acting as though the tank were fill. You could see the gas sitting in the tube and going down very, very slowly.

It's my understanding that vapor lock is caused by the heat and it's been sweltering in the Northeast for the past few days. Does anyone have any experience with this and what can I do to alleviate the problem? Of course, it doesn't happen when I take the car to the dealer so I don't know what they think. Please help anyone. I'm looking for suggestions.

vfont

What exactly is the CAI and PCM you refer to in your post. I'm not a mechanic and am not familiar with the acronyms. Thanks!

pdqgp

yes, the TB does pull high 15's in the quarter mile. I've only made three passes down the track with all of them being bone stock in configurations and all being very close. 15.779, 15.820, 15.765 actually.

Not the fastest in the bunch but certainly no slouch for a 4500lb vehicle....I've seen several 5.9 Limited Jeeps do high 14's with modifications. Not sure where they run stock, but my guess is pretty strong. Not many that I see or talk with the owners of are stock anymore.

My bad for the Acronyms....CAI is Cold Air Intake. It's the combination of a cylindrical filter with a more generous cover/housing around it to allow for more air to surround the filter. Air that is drawn in much great qty than a stock set up and from outside the vehicle.

PCM is the Power Control Moduel or basically the computer brain that controls the engine. Many aftermarket companies make chips that can be added or used to replace ones installed, but others need to have the computer replaced. I prefer to replace it as they are relatively simple to remove and replace with a stock PCM if ever warranty service is needed.

tim

bryancos

vfont
I've had trouble with the auto-shutoff when pumping gas before too... (tho not w/ my Envoy) My trick was to NOT insert the nozzle all the way down the filler tube. I just put it down 1/3 to 1/2 way down the neck far enough for gas to get into the tank and that seemed to keep it from kicking off...

cliffwilson

Vapor lock isn't your problem. The high gas line pressure of a fuel injected engine with an electric fuel pump versus the low pressure of a mechnical fuel pump with a carb rules out vapor lock. The higher pressure raises the boiling point of the liquid gas. It will not vaporize as we all remember with our older cars. Since you're not encountering any malfunction in the form of a check engine light, I don't suspect the EVAP system is creating a problem with gas tank pressure. For the heck of it depress your rear bumper up and down several times after you have removed your gas cap. Then begin to fuel the vehicle. Sloshing the gas in tank with the cap off should evacuate any differential pressure between the gas tank and the ambient air.

footballfan777

pdqgp,

Fair enough...I'll buy that.

sostrouble

I had the same problems with pumping the gas shutting off every 50 cents. I finally was so mad I went inside to talk to the clerks. the clerk came out and did something with the hose. It worked fine after that. He said that the person before me must have topped off their tank. When they did it caused some fuel to get into the recovery system, which caused the pump to keep shutting off. That may not be the same problem as yours, but it did work for me.

bradcar

A week or so ago I reported problem with periodically losing all audio.

Dealer, after discusssions with GM, replaced the "audio amplifier" and problem has been resolved. The audio amplifier was out of stock and on back order so had to wait about week to get part, which probably means others are having similar problems

Wife now has TB on trip and loves the vehicle.

kozak1

Here's a question for any triplet owners with four wheel drive. When I turn the selector switch on my TB to A4WD or 4HI, I get a brief flashing light and then a steady light to indicate which mode I'm in. However when I try to switch to 4LO, I just get the blinking light (never goes steady). I've tried putting it in 4LO while in Park or in low gear and I get the same result. If there is a problem with the transfer case, shouldn't the "service 4 wheel drive" light come on? Any one else notice this? Any ideas?

jgdobak

IIRC, the transmission needs to be in neutral to shift to 4LOW. I might be confusing another vehicle with mine, but that's as I remember it. Try stopping and putting the vehicle in neutral, first.

drew_

Please refer to your owner's manual for more details on the procedure and conditions in which you can engage 4WD Low.


Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

sostrouble

I had to have my switch replaced. It wouldn't lock into anything and defaulted into 2 wheel drive. They replaced the switch and I haven't had any problems since.

pureevil

Over the last month, I have test driven every mid-sized SUV available, as well as some larger ones(Expedition, Tahoe). Based on my test drives and some info garnered from the net, I made a short list of vehicles to drive again. Some of SUV's I drove were horrible. The Montero was big, clunky, slow and downright midevil. The Montero Sport didn't fair much better. It truely surprised me how poorly made they seemed. The Passport/Rodeo twins were outdated and every bump was felt...you could measure these two in BPM (bumps per mile). The 4runner was underpowered and was a bit behind in the interior department. The Durango and Grand Cherokee, while powerful and good looking just couldn't modivate me.

This brings me to my short list. Ford Explorer, Nissan Pathfinder and Chevy TB. The Explorer while a great SUV (look, their everywhere)was the least nimble, the slowest (IMHO) and drove to much like its old cousin the Bronco II.

The Pathfinder is one heck of a quality SUV. I swear, I drove this thing 4 times and had 2 different deals on the table. Fact is, they are too much money for the features they have. I was going to pay 29,500 (that includes MA sales tax) for a Pathfinder SE 5 speed, with a sunroof and entertainment system. For $3,300 dollars more(also includes MA sales tax), the Chevy TB included: sunroof, auto tranny, auto 4x4, heated mirrors, tow kit, 20 more HP, more interior space, leather interior with power seats (pathfinder didn't even have power seats), Driver info center, rear radio/heat/ac controls, onstar, duel auto climate control.

The TB drove like a dream, but it took lots of convincing to pay that much more. The Nissan is a great SUV and I wouldn't rule out getting one in the future. But what I really wanted was that TB. In my opinion, it is the best mid-sized SUV on the market (at least this year). Funny, I didn't even consider the Blazer/Jimmy.

The real comparison here shouldn't be Chevy TB vs. Ford Explorer, it sould be TB vs. PF. Just my thoughts. Sorry for the boring post, but I had to ramble about my experience. I know I haven't said alot about my test with the TB..you should test it yourself if you already haven't. This is my first GM car, and if they continue on their current quality/updated looks trend, it won't be my last.

Don't bother with the Ford.

pdqgp

thanks for the opinions on the other SUV's you've looked at. I didn't test drive many of the imports. Acura's SUV or Man-Van as it feels to me was great and had everything I looked for and more but I'm not paying sticker for any vehicle. They sure are proud of that thing.

The explorer was okay. Too bland in styling though. Needed the V8 to get me interested and by then with all the goodies my TB has, it was over $3k more. No thanks.

I read somewhere that the Rodeo may be sharing the TB's platform next year? Pretty sure it was the Rodeo...one of the imports anyway.

Good luck and enjoy.

mfullmer

Besides the fact that Nissan has failed to realize that SUVs are purchased more for their luxury these days, here are some numbers also:

Here are the advantages the Trio have over PF

Length - more than 9"
Width - nearly 3"
Height - more than 3"
Wheelbase - nearly 7"
F Headroom - more than 1"
R Headroom - nearly 2"
F Shoulder Room - more than 2"
R Shoulder Room - more than 2"
F Hip Room - 1"
R Hip Room - nearly 7"
F Leg Room - more than 4"
R Leg Room - nearly 6"

Go GM!!!!!

jefeconnolly

I just picked up my Black TB LTZ last weekend. Awesome vehicle. My dealer recommended purchasing the paint protection for the car which would eliminate the need to wax the vehicle going forward. It also includes treatment for the leather seats, carpeting and undercoating (which reduces sound noise). The cost is $599 for the first 2 years and $79 per year thereafter. I am a little skeptical and wanted to see if anyone else has done something like this. Let me know. Thanks.

mfullmer

That is a big money maker for the dealer!

First the "Paint Protection" - That is the biggest load of hogwash there is. What they do is have a company essentially wax the vehicle with a special product that UNDER PERFECT CONDITIONS will keep the car in that "waxed state" for about two years. I did some accounting for a friend of mine who owned a detail shop. They charge the dealers anywhere from $18.00 to $39.00 for this treatment. They will also tell you there is a warranty on the treatment but if you read the fine print it is extremely prohibitive (you cannot wash the car with anything except a "special formula" from them, you must wash the car every x weeks, etc.) It's a load of crap. You would spend less money HAVING the car waxed once or twice a year.

The "leather" protectant is a load of crap also. There is NOTHING on the market that will protect a NATURAL material, as leather, for any significant period of time. Your best bet is to get a leather cleaner/protectant and use it once or twice a year.

The undercoating is not only a rip-off but it could void your factory warranty. THERE IS NO NEED FOR UNDERCOATING ON A NEW VEHICLE. It is thoroughly protected from the factory and saying that it will "reduce noise" is the same as saying that draping a piece of sheer material over your head will reduce noise. It just doesn't work to any conceivable degree. Further, the material that they spray on can damage parts of the vehicle and therefore void any factory warranty on them.

Tell your dealer he is pretty shady trying to sell you something that it constantly being revealed a scam! Also tell him he owes you your first oil change free for being so deceptive!

Good luck!

gregb5

Don't go anywhere near that offer. There's no magic formula they'll apply to the car; they're just putting a coat of wax on it. The interior stuff is the same stuff you can buy and apply. The whole thing's worth no more than a $129 detail job; only difference is that they are starting with a brand-new car!

jefeconnolly

Thanks for the help.

lahock

My 2001 Trailblazer leaks(sprays) from the tailpipe onto the back of the muffler and onto the ground. The service department told me that was normal for it to leak there. I know that if the water comes out the back through the tailpipe that is ok but I have never had a car/truck that leaked water from the tailpipe/muffler before it got out the back through the tailpipe . Does anyone know if this is normal?

kozak1

jgdobak; Thanks. I tried it and it works.

Drew; You were right, it was in the manual, I just didn't spot it the first time. Thanks.

pureevil

Well, I no sooner praise the vehicle...and now there seems to be a problem. Sounds like a rattle of some sort coming from front passanger side quarter. Anyone else hear this? May have to have it checked out..it is annoying

mfullmer

This is most likely coming from the console (I know, I know, it sounds like it's coming from farther away). I found this out after two trips to the dealer. I leaned on the console and it made the squeak. It hasn't been back to the dealer since but I'm told there is some kind of TSB about the console and that they are aware of it.

bcatera

We purchased our 2002 Envoy on 5-25-01 and while my wife and I like the vehicle it has developed afew problems. On 8-9-01 after a highway drive my wife reported the truck was making a loud noise and that the steering was binding. I discovered the power steering reservoir was empty. After refilling the reservoir I restarted the truck and turned the wheel left and then right next I discovered the power steering rack was leaking fluid at the drivers side. Friday morning wife returned the vehicle to dealer who confirmed that the steering rack needs to be replaced. Since this is a potential safety defect I have filed a complaint with the NHTSA and alerted the General. The truck had a oil change at the selling dealer on 7-25-01 and reportedly all fluid levels were full. In addition, the differential is leaking, the OnStar system has not worked since delivery, the windshield weatherstripping blew off at highway speed, the drivers side front and rear doors rattle and flex over large bumps and the interior courtesy lights do not go on when you open the passenger side front door. Who knows when we will get it back from the dealer.

teo

You got a Lemon. Fill the BBB arbitration papers, quick!

pureevil

Thanks MFullmer...That could be it...although it sounds like more of a metalic rattle. But, your right, when i open the windows i don not hear it anymore...so it could be an inside thing. I'll keep you posted

pureevil

Sorry for the many problems with your new Envoy. I've only had mine 2 days and have had no problems at highway speeds yet (except for a rattle that I think I have solved). I would deffinately consider the Lemon Law at this point if I were you. I have seen no other reports from other owners with those same problems.

Regarding the interior lights: On the TrailBlazer there is an interior lights over-ride button below the head-lights switch, and to the left of the dimmer switch. Does the Envoy have this? Perhaps you inadvertanly bumped it. Press it again and see if that helps. If you have, Im sorry for the crappy advice.

Hope all works out well for you...Good Luck

pureevil

Thanks for wishing me luck. My hope is that Chevy won't have tons of problems with the TB, as is common with first year cars. Seems it normally takes a few years to get everything right, and then 5 full years to perfect the vehicle. And then what do they do?? They change platforms or apearence or body style and the cycle starts a new. LOL.

Have you had any major problems with yours? How long have you had it? All considered, would you slap down the 30+ G's if you had it to do all over again?

Good Luck...So far I'm quite pleased.
(PS..my 5 year old loves this thing..big back seat, own stereo, etc. The reason hes likes it most: The rear windows go all the way down! LOL. None of my previous cars had windows that did.)

isutherland

I am expecting delivery of my TB this week and I need to install the Tekonsha Brake Controller as soon as I pick it up, to prepare for trailer towing. Apparently there is a harness under the dash for this purpose but when I looked at the dealer it was not obvious. Has anyone had experience installing a controller on this harness? If so, can you tell me how to locate it under the dash? Do I need to remove a plastic panel to find the harness? I would appreciate any help from someone who has done this....Ian

tlauro

you will see plenty of don't do its, but review the contract and details before you say no.

as a former dealer principle I'll tell you the following:

sure it's a profit center. it's insurance. it's not meant to be a never was again service, regardless of what has been said.

for the interior more so than the outside, typically its a warranty that is underwritten by an insurance company that allows you to claim the stain or damage that is caused and get a replacement.

example...stain the leater with oil while moving a lawn mower...try cleaning it. if that doesn't work, call the 800# to begin a claim. they will send you to a local detail shop that is in their network. if they can't get it out, they approve the claim and send you to the dealer to get the seat cover replaced.

same thing for a paint flaw caused by bird dung or like.

so again, it's a warranty more than a never worry about it protect all.

any quesetions, just email or post me.

tim
tlauro@iwaynet.net

tlauro

yes, or condensation dripping from an exhaust is common and okay. will be most noticable during cool weather too.

it's just moisture that has built up while the motor is off and warming up that being forced out.

that's what causes an exhaust to rust out faster in cars that are stored durning winter months...thus running them on the road for longer periods is better than just starting them. it burns off that moisture.

nothing to worry.

tim

tlauro

yes, I'd do it again. I'm an avid lessor of cars so really only pay $20 more per month than my Grand Prix GTP vs taking out a note or commitment for $30k but yes, I would do it again.

no real worries over 1st year cars. heck, look at Ford Explorers...they've had more practice over time and in shear numbers and look what they have. I heard recall paperwork forms are pre-completed and part of the last few pages of their owners booklets

no major problems. I've posted a couple on my web page for others to review and email me more of their own with details, but have yet to really elaborate on mine but again...they've been pretty minor.

tim
http:/www.iwaynet.net/~tlauro

just click on the TB Main Page

rkh19

I had that metallic rattle on my TB, and believe it or not it was coming from the passengers left sun visor holder(clip). The Chevy mechanic said it took him all day to find it because the rattle sounded like it was coming from the front of the console. He had to remove a portion of the inside roof panel to get at it, the visor holder has a metal clip that was very loose and made that metallic noise on every bump. I have not heard this rattle since.

labrecque

Quick question. I am about ready to order my Envoy, but I have a question about the pricing. I get GM Supplier pricing. Questions:
1. I am going to order it. Do I get a better price?
2. How much off of MSRP should I expect? MSRP is $36,385.
3. Do I have to pay Admin fees? In prior purchases I didn't have to when using this.
Can't wait to get it!

pureevil

Does anyone have a Majestic Red TrailBlazer? Looking at pictures on the web of the Mejestic red and tlauro's Black TB, it looks like the side under-trim, front and rear trim should be black. My Majestic Red has a gray trim. I really liked the look of the rich black trim I've seen in pictures, and I am a little disappoined. Anyone else have gray trim? The part I really cared about was the trim about half way down the door. Whereas Im sure the gray will be easier to care for (won't oxidize as bad), I have to wonder why. I even put trim dressing on it thinking maybe its faded...but nope...its gray alright. Any input? Anyone else with gray trim on Majestic red? I don't think the model trim (LS, LT, LTZ)makes a difference, but mine is an LT.

fletch45

The LTZ has the dark gray front, back, and rocker trim, but the door trim, door handles, and grill bar are body color. Tim's is an LTZ.
jim f

pdqgp

Questions:
1. I am going to order it. Do I get a better price?
Yes, GM Suppliers and GM Employee programs are specials that only qualified candidates receive.

2. How much off of MSRP should I expect? MSRP is $36,385.
I've been out of the business for a while....wish I could help....check with the dealer or dealers fleet agent...they are the ones who order it up and will be able to go over it. They should be fine...they make a pre-set dollar amount that covers what little work is involved.

3. Do I have to pay Admin fees? In prior purchases I didn't have to when using this.

Admin fees? like lease fees or what not? answer is probably yes as those are fees from the lending institution not GM. perhaps they covered it with money down or trade equity in some way. overall, if it's not part of the program I'm sure they rolled it in somehow.

good luck and enjoy!

tim
Former Dealer

labrecque

The admin fees I was discussing were by the dealer. IE, his administration fees.

ralfo

Does anyone else have any problems where the passenger side roof rack bar keeps unlatching itself over time. I find that when it does unlatch, it starts rattling around and is quite annoying.

pureevil

I read on this forum somewhere (to many messages to check now) of at least one other person having this problem. I believe he returned to the dealer and had the cross member replaced and experienced no further problems. Sounds like it was an easy fix. Must have been some defects during manufacturing that went unnoticed on some of the rack cross members. Hope this helps...good luck

jbossert

Recently, I saw that someone tried to post a vehicle for sale on this board. They were told to post the vehicle on another board/location within Edmunds. Could someone please post the location again? If you look, all of my posts on my TB are very positive, I'm just moving over to a sports car.

pureevil

Okay ralfo...here is a brief qoute from user "debbin67" in post # 1840:

<"Luggage rack latch-wouldn't stay latched, they replaced the whole bar.-Very good, as this was causing major rattling on top and was driving me bananas!">

Sounds like dealer fixxed it...Good Luck

pureevil

JBossert,

I believe this is the link you are looking for:

http://applications.edmunds.com/products/ups/UsedPowerShopper?id=lin0038

Also try

www.SeeTheCar.com

This site allows you to upload pics

Good Luck