Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

malibu99

This is the first time I ever owned an SUV. I just wanted to know if the wind noise is normal or do I need them to check the door seal? There is a wind noise on the driver's side. Any help will be appreciated :-)

hambone7

See #3456 posting.

malibu99

Thanks hambone7!

The covers do exist, mine has all of them.
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check this fix this weekend.

shapiro3

I was just reading a review of the Envoy on CanadianDriver.com and it had an interior picture of the Envoy. On the middle of the front seatbacks where there is a blank space in the leather, the name "Envoy" was embroidered on the seatback. Is this something unique to Canada or maybe something on a preproduction vehicle that didn't make it to production? On the Envoys I have looked at they didn't have this stitching and the brochure I have doesn't show it either.

Just curious...

shapiro3

I just got off the phone with GMC customer service (1-800-GMC-8782). I told the girl that I am looking at buying an Envoy (which I am) and it has a paint chipping problem around the license plate frame. I told her that all the other 8 Envoys on the lot had this same problem. She said she had never heard of this issue and there was no record of anything like it in the computer. She told me that if I felt that it was an issue, I should bring it up to the Sales Manager at the dealership before buying the car and get him to agree to fix it. I then told her that I was worried about it happening again so she suggested maybe there was some way to remove the plastic license plate surround from the car! Her final comment was to let the sales manager know also so that he can tell the regional sales rep because that is the only way that anything will be done about it from GM's end.

She was very nice and polite on the phone but useless...she took my name and said she would open a file about the problem. I have already told the dealer I will buy from about the problem and I also went to an Olds dealer and pointed out the problem to the sales guy. Both said they are going to bring this up to their reps...maybe something will eventually get done. For now, I will probably buy the vehicle with the knowledge that I am going to have to create my own fix (probably make a gasket to fit and then fix the chips).

edl55347

Hambone7, in an earlier post, you indicated that you were going to see about getting the bracket covers under warranty. How did that work out?

touchngo

I thought that I would share my misery with my fellow SUV fanatics. A few weeks before Christmas I purchased a 2002 Envoy SLT. I was so awestruck with the vehicle's beauty, plush ride, and apparent quality that it didn't take me long to fall in love. Unfortunately, the honeymoon is over. I know that the new 4.2 engine is touted as being world class and next to silent. I believed that little fairy tale for two short weeks and 400 pleasant miles. Now here I sit, over a month later, and I haven't seen my vehicle in 3 weeks. Was I the victim of a car thief? No, not a chance. Unfortunately my truck developed a knock in it's state of the art engine. The dealer claimed the #6 piston was bad, but I still await word on the fix. I am tired of calling people and complaining. The dealer has been gracious throughout the ordeal, my salesman is a real gem. I can't blame them, they didn't design or engineer this "cutting edge" power plant. I talked to customer service at GMC and that was a joke. They are sorry for the inconvenience, but deny that they are experiencing many problems with this engine. I find it hard to believe I am alone. Build quality like this can destroy a company. For me, I can only hope that my truck will spend 30 days in the shop so I can get a refund under the lemon law. After talking to GM's customer service, there is no way I want another Envoy. This is coming from someone that has been a die-hard GM customer my entire adult life. I still own 3 other GM products, but am greatly disappointed with my latest purchase.
Anyway, sorry to take up so much time, but I will make sure to let you know how things work out for me.

choots

Besides being very annoying this high shifting has to be affecting my gas mileage, which is very bad around town. My dealer has told me this shifting is normal and that the shifting is computer controlled and can not be changed. Has anyone else had this problem and know of a fix?
Carl

hambone7

I am waiting for a lumbar support part to arrive before I return to the dealership. I've been waiting for 5 weeks. When I take the TB in for the lumbar support repair (the seat back squeaks) then I will report the missing outer seat support brackets. If they won't replace them, then I'll buy them myself and complain to the GM district manager (not that I expect them to do anything). When and if I get a part number I will post it.

bobmn

I feel the same way. Ever since I had the transmission reprogrammed for the recall my TB shifts much higher, too high. It doesn't shift until I hit 2500 rpm or better. Last shift comes exactly at 50 mph.I try letting off the gas at times to force a shift. Majority of my driving is in the burbs, the best mileage I've been able to achieve in the last 3 fill ups is 14.3, 14.9, 14.5 actual. I have the 3:42 axle ratio which I think now is hurting my mileage since I don't do much freeway driving. I only expected 17 or 18 mpg with this vehicle but 14 is very disappointing. At this point I only have 2100 miles on vehicle, maybe mileage will improve.

malibu99

Is 18 MPG the average? The sticker said 15 cuty , 21 highway. I do mostly highway and with 320 miles I am getting 18 MPG. Is this as good as it gets or does it get better with age?

My Malibu was aful at the beginning, after 3000 miles I was getting 30MPG highway, hoping the TB can stretch to at least 24MPG highway. Is tha not realistic?

medolark

I filled up for the first time last week. With 260 miles on the truck, about 70% in town, the on-board computer said 15.8 mpg and my own calculation said 16.1. I realize neither of these will be very accurate, but it will be interesting to track for awhile.

agenteleven

Depends heavily on how fast you drive those highway miles.

I have been able to average 22.5 MPG over a 200 mile trip. That was driving at an average speed of 53 MPH with 2700 miles on the odometer.

That was an extremely rare case for me. I currently average about 15.5 MPG with 4600 miles on the odometer. I believe my low average is because I take many short trips at an average speed of 25 MPH (stop and go traffic 2 miles to work and back everyday).

I NEVER rely on the average MPH in the DIC, though I get my average speed by taking the difference in odometer readings between each fill-up and dividing it by the DIC timer reading which I reset and restart each fill-up.

hambone7

I'm lucky to get above 14.5 MPG (with the 3.73 rear end) in combined driving, mostly suburb driving. My highway average is about 20-21, but the city/suburb average is about 13, which really stinks. I am not do hard acceleration.

I have over 4500 miles now and have not noticed an increase in acceleration. I now use 89 octane to reduce pinging.

malibu99

Wow, i guess 18 is not that bad then. Unfortunately I have a 30 mile commute to work each way. I guess it's time for a job closer to home!
Thanks for all the info guys. I am really enjoying my Summit White Trailblazer, it just takes getting used to a different fuel economy than my sedan, but I wouldn't trade this TB for the world!

scottc454

I have noticed a decline of a couple miles per gallon in the past few months,
but that is normal if you live in a place that gets cold. That oxygenated fuel they
use in the winter has less energy than normal gas, hence poorer gas mileage.

malibu99

That makes perfect sense! Forgot about that one! :-)

mfullmer

My gas mileage was in the low 15 range before I had my transmission repogrammed a few weeks ago (Bravada AWD).

Since then, I've been in mid 18 range. I commute 32 miles, each way, through Atlanta traffic. I also drive many miles through the midtown areas of Atlanta so I don't think it's doing that bad "around town".

Since I've had the Bravada (May '01) I've never had it on the highway for more than 20 miles or so. I can't wait till I do so I can see what she gets then.

bryancos

I would surmise that you could re-adjust the throttle body cable tension to change the response from the gas pedal... but the shift points themselves would most likely not change.

malibu99

Ok I'm gonna sound ignorant here but why did people need to have the tranny re-programmed? Mine doesn't shift to second gear until about 2300 RPMs, is that what the issue is? My Malibu shifted a lot quicker but then again this IS my FIRST truck so I don't know what is normal for trucks.

choots

I find it interesting that some of you have had your transmission re programed. My dealer tells me that he can not do that. Or is he telling me he wont do that???? I am very suspicious at this point.
It should be pretty basic that a car that stays in low gear for to long a time is going to get poor gas mileage.
I do not buy the theory that because it is a truck it will shift high, I have a Toyota pickup and a 3/4 ton Suburban that shifts so smooth you are not aware that they have shifted.
Carl

noller2g

There is no cable from the Throttle Body to the transmission. The computer does it all. There is no throttle cable, it's a drive-by-wire system.

Everything is programmed into the PCM (powertrain control module) including injector duration (how much fuel) spark advance, shift points wheel diameter and so on.

There may be a device where the consumer can modify these settings, but I don't think it's available yet for the triplets.

Shift points are also temperature related, make sure all your evaluations are on a fully warmed up system.

If your dealer cannot reprogram the transmission, tell him you have concerns about the transmission shift points and see if he can reprogram the pcm (not the transmission) or try a different dealer.

My 02 Bravada runs like a top. Dealer fixed misaligned front bumper cover, droopy headliner, and some other fit and finish issues in his excellent body shop.

My car had a problem with the radiator fan comming on even when cold, and he said there was a bulletin on that and reprogrammed the pcm.

If one dealer does not meet your needs, try another. I've found that being rude and gruff to the service writer gets me nowhere, and being polite but firm, and mentioning items I read about on this forum and others does a world of good. A call to the general manager will really wake folks up, but again, be polite, and tell them how much you like their dealership and how you've bought your last five vehicles from them and are expecting a promotion and a raise in a month and will need a new luxo car for the spouse.

My Oldsmobile service writer is Donavon Baker, Davis Moore Oldsmobile, Wichita, KS (316) 618-2092, let it ring, cause he is probably with a customer. He's good.

WichitaGreg
Purchased from Davis/Moore Auto Group, Whicita

bobmn

Carl, the ones of us that have had the transmission reprogrammed did so because of a recall notice we received. Supposedly it was a safety issue, the transmission could come out of park causing the vehicle to roll. You possibly did't get one because I think it only affected a range of certain serial numbers. I was better off before the reprogramming, it increased my shift points thus reduced my gas mileage. It hangs in a gear too long before upshifting.

edl55347

I do a lot of suburban driving and have noticed that my mileage seems may be varying partially due to the gasoline used. I always use 87 octane. I was just watching the gas guage and noticed that it seemed to be going down faster than normal. I checked the DIC and noticed that my mileage was a lot lower(13.5) vs the normal 15-16 that I get.
I filled at a different station than I usually do and will monitor mileage when getting gas from various stations to see if there is any noticable difference.

kimodo

Hi there,
Just read the posts about the trannies before heading out, so I watched for them. Mine seem to shift just before 2k, under normal flat conditions. But when going up hill or soemthing, can hit the middle of 2-3 before shifting. As for gas mileage, used about half gallon and only getting 146 miles so far. Will ahve to fill it up and do the math to be sure. Using 87 from mobil right now. What are others using, or suggesting?

ficuss

Why is everyone so obsessed about mileage. We all drive differently, on different roads and highways, at different speeds using gas formulated for different parts of the country at different times of the year. And still people are concerned about 1/2 to 1/4 mpg after driving a brand new vehicle 50 miles. Turn off the computer and enjoy the vehicle, please. I can imagine being behind some of the posters here on the open road. One eye on the road and the other on the computer display fretting over the instantanious mileage. You have a 4.2 ltr. gas engine driving a 4000 lb. vehicle. Your mileage is not going to be as good as your Grand Am or your Yugo. This is a truck you're driving. Sit back, turn up the Bose and cruise.

edl55347

Ficuss, I agree that different gas formaulations, habits, temperature all make a difference in mileage.
I normally don't worry about mileage too much. I have over 5000 miles on my TB. It was only since I filled at a different brand station that I noticed what appeared to be a major drop in my gas guage based on the driving I was doing. I reset the DIC and began watching. It seems that the mileage reduction may be related to the brand rather than any of the other factors.
By posting these things, we can help each otehr out. Some people on this board may decide to try to switch brands and see if it makes a difference in mileage. If it helps, great!

hambone7

I'm concerned about gas mileage in my TB because I would expect to get better than 13 MPG around town. Why? I also drive a 1978 Chevrolet C10 that gets 10 MPG...a 6 cylinder SUV that is 24 years newer should get better than 13 MPG around town. With all the sensors and computers on board the TB, who knows if the vehicle is not performing to factory specs? One adjustment/reprogram/sensor replacement could result in a 3 MPG improvement (see mfullmer above). GM goes to great lengths to improve mileage on it's vehicles. If there is a reprogram of the computer that will improve my mileage 3 MPG then I want to know about it.

My expectation was to get 15-17 MPG around town. I am disappointed.

malibu99

Seems like asking about gas mileage, transmissions, paint issues, seat bracket covers, or anything else about the TB is taboo on this board. What the heck is this board for then? To sit and turn up the bose and comment on how nice the new PINK CD sounds ? Last time I checked this was a free board to ask anything. For those of us who just switched to an SUV from a sedan we want to know if the 14 MPG we are getting is normal and if there is a fix outthere to increase it by 2 or 3 more MPG then we want to know because as hambone7 mentions a vehicle that is 24 years newer than an old Chevy should do better. If you don't like it just skip over the message and read the next.

hambone7

Ouch!!

I agree...I don't know why someone would waste their time reading this board if they just want to drive and crank up the stereo.

malibu99

I was a little harsh, i apologize to this board. I just wanted to express that we should discuss the good, the bad, and everything about the TB. It is a grat SUV, probably one of the best outthere but some people still want some info, advice on their new purchase. :-)

trentg1

Okay, I've read a lot of the 3500 comments. I've rented and test driven just about all the SUVs (middle of the road price wise) on the market. I really like the Envoy but haven't driven one except on the test drives. Based on a summation of all the comments, would an Envoy be a wise purchase?

vindog45

anyone know if i order one....am i still entitled to bonus cash back...even tho promotion ends feb. 28..?...vin

malibu99

When I asked they said no, they said you had to take delivery by Feb 28.

nextmoon

GM's 2002 midsize sport/utility vehicles recalled again

General Motors’ 2002 midsize sport/utility vehicles, hit with an early recall to fix a defective front-suspension lower control arm, are now being recalled to fix a 4wd transfer case control module problem.
About 78,000 Chevrolet TrailBlazers (named North American Truck of the Year) and GMC Envoys are affected by the problem, which can result in the vehicle rolling while in park.

In an unrelated powertrain problem affecting an unspecified number of the same vehicles, GM says a torque converter control module that regulates all-wheel-drive and four-wheel-drive functions is on a national backorder. Once the module fails, the vehicle operates in rear-wheel drive only.

watchdog2

Greetings,

I have been reading these posts since the beginning. They are very informative to read it helped in my decision to purchase last October 2001. However, I have a very noticable scratch on the rear driver side fender/wheel flare.

Does anyone know the "part number" for the metallic pewter paint ? I really want to take care of this soon. your help will be greatly appreciated.

dyates

I thought this gave some fascinating information about the innovations that were built into our new engine. Use the address below in your web browser and then select the Vortec 4200 press kit on the right.

http://media.gm.com/division/powertrain/index.html

malibu99

Aren't those recalls the 3 that were already out? Seem like the old recalls to me.

nextmoon

I haven't followed this forum that closely to know if it was posted earlier. Just passing along information and it was definitely news to me.

malibu99

Yes then those are old ones, the last recall was before October. The three are:

1) Front control arm
2) transfer case
3) Some other one ( can't remember_ related th the programming of gears

Those were mostly early production models. no recalls since so if you are considering the Trailblazer it is safe to do so. Mine was built in October 2001 so it's up to date. :-)

vplaza

The service director at the dealership called us yesterday. They are expecting a "prototype" gasket from GM to arrive in the next few days and are going to install it on the vehicle to see if it works.

Not sure who got that ball rolling on the GM side, but I hope it's an indication that they are fessing up to this problem.

earlc

Took my wife's Olds Intrigue into the dealer in the Atlanta area today for service and while waiting I looked at eight new 2002 Bravadas on display. There was one of each color and all had the paint problem around the license plate area. A sales rep walked up and asked if he could help me and I pointed out the problem to him. He said he had not noticed it but would report it to his general manager. I have a 2002 TB LT and so far I have not noticed it on mine.

looped77

I was pretty much convinced I wanted to get a new '02 Trailblazer LTZ, but after reading so many postings about weird vibrations and whistling noises, transmission problems, gas mileage problems, and computer recalibrations, I wonder if I should either wait for next year's model or focus on something else entirely? Can someone who owns or has driven a TB for a while give me a straight up--is this car worth it or not? Thanks!

ficuss

Malibu, Hambone, et al. I wasn't complaining about the posts regarding gas mileage. I was trying to explain why mileage varies from person to person, car to car and state to state. Our gas in northern Illinois is 10% corn alcohol. Our mileage is probably going to be lower than most others, but the exaust is a little cleaner. I think we should share all of our experiences with the tripletts. When my engine was replaced due to a dropped cylinder sleeve, the forum helped by at least letting me know it wasn't a widespread problem that would happen again. When Chevy replaced the engine, I was comfortable with the fix. So, post all of the mileage comments, I'll keep reading them and all of the others.

mrau

Hi everyone ! I have been thinking about the Envoy ever since it hit the streets last year. The $2002 rebate finally did the trick. I must admit, I read ALL the post on this board during the last week before making the final choice. It is very informative and gives a good cross-section opinion of the cars. It is much better than reading a single article written by one guy/girl who drove the car for a few days. All who took time to post are applauded. [clap -clap -clap]

Some of the concerns I had prior to my purchase were
1. which gear ratio to get?
2. Is the load level(air spring) suspension worth it?
3. What the heck are "rain sense" wipers?
4. what king of MPG's to expect.

Well with everyone's help here, I got a pretty good understanding of them all. Thanks and I will keep you posted on my own experiences.

So far, the Envoy is GREAT !! Picked it up last night in the fog and rain. Only drove 50 miles, but what a nice ride.

I got the Pewter w/ dark interior, SLT with professional towing option. Has the running boards and moon roof to boot. The Envoy was built in Dec , 01. Looks like everything but the DVD player. (no kids, so not much use for that.) I got the 4:10 rear axle and the motor runs about 2300 rpms @ 70 mph. A nice smooth ride.

I Will let you know more as "The Odometer Turns"

zackman

If you read most of the 3500 posts, you also noticed many people praise the triplets. I have had my Magnetic Red Envoy since September (the 0% put me over the edge) and have had NO problems other than the dreaded license plate paint problem. So, take a test drive (50 miles minimum), take the $2002 cash back and go for it.

baitisj

Hey there:

Personally, I decided to shy away from the rain-sense wipers and the air suspension because I figure that these automatic features will be failure prone if I decide to keep my car longer than five years.

I would also suggest that you get the manual HVAC if that is an option. I find that the automatic HVAC is very irritating.

Things that I really would suggest that you get:

1. Auto-dim mirrors (I don't know if there are packages where you DON'T get them, but they are fabulous)

2. Heated seats. Really, really nice during the winter.

Bear in mind, though, I would much rather drive a manual transmission, and would prefer everything in my car to be of the utmost simplicity so that it is not failure-prone and easy to fix, so this is my bias. I spent the extra money on the extra package becuase I wanted to do something very different from my clunker that I used to own... and now I'm very concerned after having to get everything 'reprogrammed' several times. It scares me to think how much this might cost after the warranty period has passed.

Regards,
Jeff

nextmoon

I was looking at an Envoy last weekend and noticed the non-flat floor space in the second row of seats. What is under those raised "lumps" right in the center of the second row?
Normally I see a rectangular or circular-shaped tube running the length of a car/truck but never before in that odd configuration.

malibu99

Yea, sorry for jumpin the gun :-) I just hit 500 miles today. Loving the TB even more everyday and it actually looks real tough and all when it's all muddy, but I'm gonna wash her tomorrow anyways. Enjoy your TBs!

axsysman

Does anyone know anything about the Electronic Throttle Control (ETC) in the GMC triplets? I have been experiencing a slight pulsation feeling in the gas pedal at speeds above 55 mph. I took it in to the dealer and they claim it is normal and related to the torque convertor locking and unlocking. I read that the ETC has a force feedback that sends sensory feedback to the pedal? Anyone have any problems with this?