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Comments
But the WRX Sedan and Sport Wagon materials do mention 2 new colors -- java Black Pearl and San Remo Red.
One of the things I really like about the WRX sedan and wagon is that they are sleepers to some degree. The hood scoops sort of give them away and the sedan fender blisters. But at casual glance they register on most people's brains as part of a broad class of practical Japanese small sedans -- Civics, Corollas, and other . . . .
But the STi screams -- LOOK AT ME! I am a BEAST!
That is fine for some but removes part of the appeal of the car for me.
For that reason I am part of the group that would opt for the standard WRX - no wing / spoiler. Maybe even the wagon because it is less obtrusive.
Possibly in a year or so, the STi content will be available without the Barbie pink logos and box-kite rear spoiler.
That recent Wall Street Article pegs the average WRX owner as a 46 year old male. A dealer I visited in Ann Arbor bore this out. He said his average customer was a 40-something professional male. Many were physicians. They wanted a driver's car on a deal. And that is what the WRX is. At about $25k there is no better combo of utilitly (especially the wagon), sport, all weather safety and non-snobbish appeal.
I wonder if that demographic will warm to the STi. For me, if the wing and gold wheels were deleted, the STi would remain unobtrusive and remain a good deal. But at about $30k you would expect to pay, there are more stylish (but less capable) choices like the Nissan Z or Infinity G35 Coupe or Sedan.
The WRX I think will continue to be the volume sales leader. While there will be few enough STis out there that they will find takers for the 5000 they expect to sell.
I really wish that huge rear wing were optional. BMW and Mercedes do just fine without all that silliness.
Bob
Anyone care to place bets on the likelihood of a Sonic Yellow STi? If there are other colors, that will probably be one.
-Jason
But as somebody said earlier, what if we were to swap the trunklid of the STi with a WRX (without the wing) ? That should get us an STi without the wing, right ?
Later...AH
John
But I often get the feeling that Japanese mfgs. measure the interest and success of the car more by a home audience than by a North American. Because of all the tuner shops in Japan with an infinite variety of ever more outlandish body kits, and a large youth market in the US, they may assume the car will sell well here. And it may, if they don't make too many.
JW
Not to bore you with a lot of personal detail, but some may find this interesting. A lot of factors forced me to wait this long. They were mainly money-related. A lot of factors are making me buy now, not just money-related. After seeing the current styling enough I've grown to like it, and the changes for '04 displease me (it's too "Nissanified"). I had originally planned to wait until later this spring (younger sibling will get her license, and my current car, in May) but don't want to miss an '03.
I also spent some time weighing the WRX against vehicles similar (IMHO) in packaging/performance/features. That list included the Mazda 6, VW GTI or Golf and Neon SRT.
Of course, none of these vehicles has AWD. There will be a Golf R32 w/ AWD but it's going to be low-production and out of my $$ range. I've never been interested in the VW sedans w/ AWD and the Audis are just too $$ for me, as are most other passenger cars that can be had in North America (specifically New Jersey) w/ AWD. So, in each of these matchups, it's a given that having AWD is a big positive so I won't individually discuss that.
On the Mazda, I liked the way it drove but the ride felt a bit more harsh than the WRX; tradeoff in that the WRX feels like it rolls a BIT more but never enough to worry me given how hard I had to push it to get it to feel like that; I don't drive that hard. To config the 6 the way I want makes it about the same price as the WRX, and I figured that with the 6 being a new model it might be tough to get "flexibility" on options and pricing. Plus Mazdas, while I know they're solid etc, have never done anything for me since the demise of the RX7. Just a preference thing.
I like the GTI in concept but I have some direct exposure that left me w/ a bad taste. A friend bought a 1.8T in November '01 and endured shady treatment from the dealer (took his deposit, then took far longer than promised to get his car delivered, and the first time it was the WRONG CAR). It feels very solid but it also feels small inside for the person I am and the life I lead. I'm a bit tall and long-armed, and the vehicle feels a bit tight for me; I can practically rest my inside elbow on the opposite door trim, and my usual weekly load of stuff would barely fit under his hatch. The one time he let me drive it, I felt a bit of torque-steer and bodyroll. I know the suspension has been changed since '01, but I don't think the torque-steer was rectified. Lastly, he's had some odd problems with it. Some internal trim pieces have fallen off, but he's also had some mechanical trouble. 2 weeks after he took delivery the steering began to pull noticeably and he had to take it for an alignment correction; he doesn't drive very aggresively and he takes pains to avoid potholes etc so he was unhappy with that. Lastly, if he drives in overdrive gear at highway speed for an extended period and then slows for a bit, the tranny sometimes refuses to re-engage overdrive. Dealer hasn't been able to locate the trouble.
I do awfully like the press I've read on the SRT. I'm coming off a '96 Neon ACR and it's always been a fun and cheap and reliable car, but I'm ready for a change.
Here's the fax from my dealer w/ their price: 23,924 (plus tax, fees etc) for the sedan 5MT w/ just options for mirror/security and stereo (no wing or wheels for me, at least not right now)
I like that price. Is it appropriate, or is it rude, to ask for an estimate of various fees?
DjB
They really didn't say much about it other than that. It was one of those "first look" deals.
The one they showed was BLACK, and you talk about mean looking, that rasckel was really SHARP! Anyone wanting one with more room, or interested in the wagon format. Check it out. I just hope it has better front seating than the regular Legacy wagon.
I also am not sure whether it's coming stateside or not, but the way they talked, it's on the way. I would guess probably 2005 model year.
Have a great day!
Ken
DjB
If this car lives up to all the hype, it definitely sounds like a driver's car. That'll be two in a row for SOA to deliver on a no-nonsense driver's car.
As many of you posted, this one definitely is not an everyday car IMO. Then again neither is a Hummer H2, Turbo Carrera or a Viper but they're out there.
I'd have to make an exception to my long standing principle of driving what I have, if I had an STi. This one would be in the garage and a sunny weekend car. I just can't visualize where I'd drive one. I'd need a lot of open space, no cops or a good track to enjoy this one. My stock WRX is just right for my real-life everyday drive and still having fun with it.
Looks like Subaru did it again!!
sensei--Totally agree with you. I don't race my WRX all the time but it's nice that I can, when I want.
Jason--After having seen both the STi and Evo VIII in pictures, aren't the spoilers about the same size??
Thought I saw an STi today on the road; had to blink twice, then saw that although it had gold wheels, it didn't have the huge spoiler, so I think it was an '02 or '03 WRX with mods. I assume.
--sonya4
Hey folks,
I guess this counts as one of my quarterly pop-ins, but I will probably be a more active participant in the near future. After 2 years of itching, I finally scratched and bought an 03 WRX (sedan) today. I don't like the looks of the 04 front end (mutated 90s Mazda 323?), and the new incentives made an 03 very compelling. I bought at Pence Subaru near Richmond, VA and got the car for $3000 under MSRP. They are offering that deal on all WRXs in stock, which means you can really clean up if you get a model with no options (works out to about $1000 under invoice on a base sedan). My car is Sedona Red, and came with the short-throw shifter (awesome!), arm rest, rear spoiler, turbo gauge, and winter mats.
Has anyone bought the Subaru car cover for the WRX? If so, what is the material and color? Does the cover accomodate the rear spoiler?
Also, has anyone upgraded the speakers in their WRX? Is it easy (ie, pop off the grille) or more complicated (door panel removal)?
One of the highlights of my buying experience was watching the dent wizard work a small ding out of the front fender. It was almost imperceptable, but the sales guy wanted it to be right. I was skeptical, but the dent wizard did an amazing job and it was really cool to watch. I was blown away, and now the fender looks perfect.
I briefly considered a Nissan 350Z, since it is a bargain in base model form ($26800), but it was a little too flashy for me, never mind that the interior was kind of plasticky and far-out (like the Altima). As I was cruising home in the WRX today, over backroads that were dry/wet with occasional snow drifts, I was glad I went with the WRX. AWD really helps put all that horsepower to the road with ease. And the interior of the WRX, while conservative looking, totally gets out of the way during sprited driving. The steering wheel, shifter, and pedals become natural extensions of the driver, and the seat is just perfect. Amazing for a compact car! This even blows away my previous sports car, a 97 Honda Prelude, in almost every aspect. The Prelude was a handful to get off the line with 200 HP going to the front wheels. The WRX pretty much breezes off the line.
My only beef so far is with the units used for the turbo gauge: MPa. So, 1 atmosphere of boost, which would be about 15 psi in common everyday units, would read as 0.1 MPa. Not the most intuitive scale (to me at least).
Craig
If it were up to me, I'd do the swapping of trunk and hood and call it a day
-mike
Craig - I already congratulated you. :-)
I've seen the spy photos of the new Legacy STi. Those specs would probably be for the JDM, IMHO.
Here's the current Legacy STi:
http://www.apexjapan.com/news/s401_test_s401.html
-Dennis
And, the STi looks to be a very capable track car, but I don't see anything that would eliminate it from daily use. Plenty of people daily drive WRX's with the SPT(STi) suspension and 17" rims, and the extra torque can only improve around town behavior.
-mike
Today's top-of-the-line Subies are far more upscale than comparable models from years past. I think Subaru can move more upscale, if they do it gradually, have the right product, and price it properly.
Bob
But the hood scoop is a completely different animal. That scoops in air into the intercooler (cooling air that goes into the turbo) and reducing its size to the WRX hood-scoop, will reduce the cooling efficiency. Unless Subaru re-designs the intercooler design to a front-mounted one (like Audis/Volvos/SAABs etc), I would retain the STi hood-scoop as is.
JMHO.
Later...AH
Bob
-mike
Congratulations on your purchase - enjoy!
You'd have to remove the door panel to replace the speakers (6 1/2" front, 5 1/4" rears).
Bob
-Jason
-mike
You're right though, if the SVX were sold today it would probably be a $40+K vehicle. That would be a tough sell for Subaru. I do think a high-$30K (in today's money) is possible, if the product were right. If Subaru can sell a $30+K Impreza, they can certainly sell more luxurious vehicles in that price range. If the VDC had a 250+ HP motor, those cars would fly off dealer's lots.
Bob
I certainly hope they can make the luxury thing stick. That would be great.
-mike
-Dave
The wing reminds me of the Super Bee in Apple Green with the distinct decal. I'd keep it the way it is.
I need a wagon so I don't think I will replace my WRX wagon with an STI. Besides the WRX is not paid off yet.
TWRX
not really.
And, I'm not complaining about the styling at all, just agreeing with a large number of potential buyers who would prefer to buy the car with the WRX trunk spoiler or a clean trunk. Not changing the stock car, just requesting the option to be able to order it from the factory without the huge wing.
I don't know why that upsets so many people, but I definitely struck a nerve with a similar post at nasioc.
Bob
"not really. "
Yes it is. :-)
Prodrive's rally car is a built up from an STi Type RA.
Or how about this is a street-legal rally car?
-Dennis
TWRX, remember the blue w/ gold wheels Pace car Viper? You're right, this car is not mean't to be a subtle car. This one's a "In your face" or better yet, "in your rear view mirror" kinda car.
STi mpg = Minutes Per Grin
-mike
Later...AH
TwRx
Actually, the wing on the WRX wagon does seem to deflect air outward and the rear window seems to stay clean at highway speed.
sees a blue blur
tries to focus
still a blue blur but gotten larger
suddenly there's this turbulence and a loud 'Ba- Room'
look at the rearview mirror
the blue blur isn't there anymore
following the near broken sound barrier fading towards the front, through the windshield
there's this shrinking blue blur fast disappearing.
WRX STi
you got to drive it to see it
-Dave
Are you not the one who constantly talks about how the WRX 4EAT is almost nearly the same as the one in the rally cars???????? This is an interesting development. And if you want cars that are nothing like the street driven ones, just look at nAScar.
-mike
Of course, the NASCAR racecars have not even the remotest similarity with the cars on the roads, unlike Subaru, where at least the basic shell is the same with some components like the Center Diffs being shared with Road going cars.
Did I miss something in your logic ? I am confused.
Later...AH
-mike
The wing is entirely justified functionally in those at-the-limit contexts. Day-to-day, on the road, it constitutes an aesthetic question mark at best and sends "style" messages that many of us who love the *substance* of this car have no interest at all in sending. I don't see how adults can debate these facts with a straight face.
What I like most about the WRX is the subtle low-key sleeper character of this performance car. A lot of us drive it mainly for that reason, that and the fact that we don't need MB, BMW Audi or Lexus haute bourgeoise luxuriousness -- that we find all that stuff soft and of questionable value for its cost. And the überWRX performance nature of the STi only takes it to an even higher level of attractiveness to drivers like us. To me, and I doubt I'm alone here, if that überperformance came with even *less* flash than the WRX, then I would be first in line here in the states in April to buy this car. If the sleeper quality were even to get *heightened*, that would just be way cool.
The BMW M series and the Audi S series are also sleepers, sorta, if luxury ones. That's a part of their appeal. Lots of us are into understatement. We don't particularly like, and certainly don't need, flashy. Subaru has clearly demonstrated that they completely understand and agree with this take on a driving persona and this attitude of substance trumping style clearly informs a significant part of their business culture and the products they ship to the world. So let's not pretend that facing this issue squarely ought to arouse an uncritical defensiveness re: alleged Subaru-knows-best styling omniscience. Japanese taste is legendary. I wonder if it isn't being corrupted a little by some American's equally legendary lack of it.
That gulping hood scoop is functional, if a bit garish, and thus perfectly tolerable IMHO. So I won't be replacing the hood -- just the trunklid. And silver wheels for me, on black. I will lose the Barbie pink badge too. I prefer a blue tint on black to pink on rally blue. I will go sorta flashy on the rims tho. I like the wheels on that S401 STi Legacy B4 upgrade you can see at the URL above in bluesubies post.
Think they'd look pretty fine in silver on a black STi with no wing, not even a spoiler. Then we're talking sleeper-cubed. Big market for that too, believe me. Oughta be an option, and certainly shouldn't strike a nerve in anyone when this is suggested.
Mike
Later...AH
Not quite true, first, the engine is the same block with same bore/stroke. The chassis and frame are the same, and suspension geometry is the same.
Second, rally cars in group N and group P class ARE the same cars as street cars. It's just the open class cars and WRC class cars that are ultra-modified.
http://www.subarurallyteam.com/CarDetails.asp?TeamId=2&MenuId- - =4
http://www.subarurallyteam.com/CarDetails.asp?TeamId=4&MenuId- - =4
Thanks
can someone tell me the very reasonable price range for 02" and 03"?
i am in SNJ. there is one dealer is asking for 22K for 02".
please email me to swimmercc@yahoo.com
thank you