Subaru Impreza WRX

mariner7

Just read GM's considering rebadging WRX as a Saab. How much of Subaru does GM control? Can it just do whatever it wants with Subaru's crown jewel?

BTW, Sub dealers are dead set against the idea, and they should be!

bluesubie

Good luck and go easy on the break-in. :-)
Care to mention what dealer you used? I'm sure you can find vendors that sell Momo by searching on nasioc.

mariner7 - GM has about a 20% stake in Fuji Heavy Industries, Subaru's parent.

-Dennis

bruticus

I was debating between Samurai Jack and Skull (after the troll in PVPonline.com), but Saturday was driving to visit friends and passed a street marked Oberon. A passenger pointed it out to me (I was concentrating on not-missing a different street, so my mind was like "IF [STREETNAME] unequal Kings Way [THEN] ignore") and we commented, almost in unison, that it's an awesome name.

DjB

hypov

DjB-
The christianing is as interesting as the name.

I named my WRX wagon Pebbles. Maybe she hinted to call her Pebbles. She was literally pelted with pebbles [or its like] on her maided voyage home. So far, thereafter, she hasn't been a magnet for them.

-Dave

paisan

But they are the single largest shareholder.

-mike

hypov

Won't like to see either rebadging each other.
I think they'll be more fruitful if both Subaru and SAAB get together and come up with a spin-off, like ACURA, LEXUS, INFINITI...

-Dave

gottawrx

and DjB ofcourse. I just the 1K mark with mine in just 10 days and all is well except for my washer fluid wont come out. Having too much fun driving but the $2.20 gallon price is putting a damper on things alittle. As for car names my girlfriend said after many days of thought that it is Frank. Dont know why but I call him Franklin. Oh well.

ateixeira

Dave: you took the pressure off. Once you named her Pebbles it's like you were expecting them, hence they disappeared.

I think I'll call my next car "Door Ding".

Saab has been showing sporty concepts, it won't look anything like a WRX. Keep in mind the Forester uses the same platform, is that a clone? Hardly.

Imagine a lowered coupe based only on the chassis and drivetrain. Could be good, no?

-juice

raybear

Re: that race, you know what they say, it ain't the horse, it's the jockey.

paisan

I agree raybear. Proving that you don't need a fast car to be fast I know I probably couldn't have out driven even a poor driver of a WRX. A few people on here have met Uncle Tony, he's quite a driver

-mike

wrxsoon1

Juice - D.D. could be short for Door Ding. At least that way she sounds like she's got a real name. LOL!

DjB - Congrats on your new friend!

-Ian

c_hunter

Congratulations, I know you must be excited!

Craig

sensei1

and many fun safe miles to come. Driving will never be the same I tell you.

Ahhh the rush of having a new toy in the garage, naming it even...

Enjoy, break it in gently. Good luck!

bruticus

http://www.forbes.com/2003/03/10/cz_jf_0310feat.html

It doesn't mention Subaru at all so I hope the hosts will allow it, but it is an interesting discussion of "what is quality?" and how lots of cars that are commonly seen as great vehicles are fraught with problems.

The slide show is fun too. Alas, my beloved Neon is listed in the Top 10 safety recalls. All the more noteworthy because the car gave almost 5 years of good service, and I will miss it after its move to PA.

Djb

ateixeira

The article hints at one theory I have.

Quality and reliability are not the same thing.

Quality is glove-soft leather, beautiful in texture and color. It may not last, in fact the leather might crack after 5 years.

Reliability means it doesn't break. Vinyl is less likely to crack, so you can rely on it more than you can rely on leather.

But leather is a higher quality material.

-juice

njcar1

Yesterday in NJ I saw live the 2004 WRX Sti. UNBELEIVABLE, to say the least. I don't know how this guy got it, but it looked great. The new front looks really good and the interier was really cool as well. The engine was running idle but as soon as he moved away from me the growl gave me chills. I was soooo impressed with it that I even forgot the childish spoiler (oh yeah it does look terrible). Wow what a car!

rsholland

Subaru of America is located just outside of Philly, in Cherry Hill NJ, so a STi sighting is quite possible. Probably some SOA guy dotting the "I"s and crossing the "T"s before the June release.

Bob

ateixeira

Hey SoA, give it to Patti so I can drive it!

-juice

hypov

I read somewhere in NASIOC that SoA does indeed have the '04 STi. That was like two weeks ago?

-Dave

eagle63

Is there any way you can get a new sTi without the goofy whale tail on the back? I'm trying hard to avoid the boy racer look but Subaru is making it difficult!

sonya4

I'm going to wait a couple of years and see what else is offered with the STi...like the option of a low-profile spoiler. Wouldn't mind the 300 hp though, along with other goodies.

--sonya4

paisan

It may have been an STi but if it didn't have manufacturer plates on it then it definitely was not. How do I know? Jerry Seinfeld is getting the first "production" STi. What you might have seen is a front body clip from an STi, I believe Rallispec has got them in stock and are selling them to people for the STi look.

As for buying the STi, I just spoke to my dealer this past week and the short and long of the STi is this: $34-35K MSRP, LESS THAN 1 PER DEALER, and SOA will not ship until a $1000 deposit check is faxed over to them, and a signed buy order with approved credit is processed. Also they may ONLY come in blue, but he wasn't sure on the colors yet.

-mike

10steve

I was wondering if some of you can give me your thoughts on WRX reliability. I am thinking of buying a WRX and consumer reports keeps saying below average repair history. I know they sometimes miss the mark on cars but would like to hear from anyone on the subject. Also should I wait for the 2004 or get a good deal on a 2003 left over.(is the money worth it?)

Thanks in advance

bruticus

I've never put much stock in CR car reports. Electronics, washers/dryers, etc sure, but I just never felt a strong conviction that they were a perfect info source.

It could be that I drove ~90K miles in a 1996 Neon (which gets poor reliability marks) with no major mechanical faults. Or that my sister and her husband did pretty much the same with a 1995 Neon. My father has owned 4 ChryCo minivans and only the first ever had an issue. A good friend bought his wife an A6 (poor reliability) several years ago and I've never heard of them having trouble.

In fact, in my (admittedly not-unlimited) experience with vehicles CR rates as unreliable, the majority have not born out that rating.

As for '03 vs '04, you only have about a month left to get an '03 at all, and you may be totally unable to find one with exactly the options you want. If you're planning to finance a large % of the vehicle price, then yes the special Subaru financing on leftover 03s is worth it. If you're planning to put in a big downpayment, or are able to get a good loan rate under regular conditions, then the special financing saves you less.

Whatever decision you make, make it and finalize it soon.

DjB

WarpDrive

The Subaru should be pretty reliable, the initial 2002 models had some glitches that were largely solved by late 2002 and early 2003 models.

corkfish

I guess the old adage is true. Never buy the first year of a new model. That will be difficult for me if I have to decide between a new turbo forester and a new turbo legacy.

dgraves1

I have found CRs reliability info to be very useful as long as you understand its limitations. With models that have only been out for one year, the data is not too useful. A couple of glitches will knock it below average but that says nothing about the long term reliability prospects. If you look at the Impreza line, it has excellent long term reliability ratings and I would expect the WRX to eventually improve in it's ratings.
Look at the Lexus IS300. Last year's CR showed it to be barely average, which is out of character for Lexus, but it was the first year, so there were probably a few minor problems. One year later, the IS300 is the top rated upscale car for reliability. A similar thing happened to the Totyota Sequoia. You need to undeerstand and interpret the data a bit. You can't just go to the bar graphs and draw conclusions.
You can't dismiss CR findings based on your experiences and those of people you know. That's too small a database to have any significance.

sopecreek

I agree. You are right on CR and how to interpret its findings.

robmarch

where did you get this info about jerry seinfeld?

and...most of the other dealer info is probably BS. less than one per dealer? Only blue? 1k check faxed?

Pretty much every other dealer that is taking STi deposits is still saying Silver, Black, Blue, and White. Gold or Gunmetal/silver rims. "Sold Orders" sent to Subaru, but the amount of deposit is up to the dealer.

And, less than one per dealer is highly unlikely, since there is a strong rumor that dealers who sell STi's will be required to buy the special service tools, at $10-20k. I haven't heard anything reliable that disputes the 4-5k per year numbers that were floated around the press release.

paisan

Well I'm personal friends with the manager. He wouldn't be BSing me about the stuff. He would have nothing to gain by BSing me. Now his info may be incorrect from the Subaru Distributor (the company that handles the NY Region distribution of cars).

The Jerry Sienfeld thing I've heard elsewhere as well.

-mike

c_hunter

I'm pretty sure they will come in other colors, in fact I remember seeing an STi info sheet when I bought my WRX in late January, and I think it showed several colors. Then again, I was somewhat giddy that day.

Craig

bluesubie

paisan, that deposit amount might be S.I.'s, not SoA's/SDC's. That's not the case with Flemington. :-)

-Dennis

c_hunter

I worked through lunch today so that I could sneak off with Scarlet WRX for a jaunt this afternoon. What an awesome car, she just keeps growing and growing on me. Since it's a nice balmy day (63F), I put the windows down and turned the radio off. Who needs a radio in a WRX anyway? The sounds from the engine are pure mechanical coolness.

Craig

twrx

Subaru sent a link to those who signed up on the STI site to a page where you could choose your favorite color. The choices included black, white, silver, and blue. Either gold or silver wheels are an option. Joe Spitz on his Cars101 site shows the same four colors. Since he is a salesman that should be inforormation from SOA.

WRX reliability: I still feel the primary problem with WRX reliability is related to hard driving and modifications. Mine has been a very good car and I would not hesitate to buy another WRX.

TWRX

twrx

Funny you should mention it, I just got back from lunch. Had my windows down in WRX wagon, 60+ here in Ind. My favorite sounds from the WRX are;
1. low rumble of exhaust when at idle
2. whine of turbo just as you press the pedal
3. King Crimson's new CD "The Power to Believe"

OK so I just had to throw that in but I do agree that with the windows down it is really cool hearing the car.
TWRX

ateixeira

First year models that fell to merely "Average" reliability include the Civic, Camry, Altima, and WRX.

Are those unreliable cars? No. I bet it bounces back next year when the 2003s are reported on.

-juice

paisan

Bluesubie: That was the $ figure he gave that SOA required. They don't require any specific $ amount at the dealer, he would have told me it was dealer specific. As for flemington, we'll see when it all shakes out how many each dealer gets...

Colors: Yes there was a SURVEY sent out, that doesn't mean those are the colors available. Again the "Blue only" rumor was not the first time I heard it at the dealer it's been floating around NASIOC for a while.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. The 420 Yellow WRXs was a correct # so who knows they might make the STi just as limited.

-mike

hypov

I didn't know the wagon comes in Sonic Yellow.
Has anyone other than myself seen another?

-Dave

lark6

Saw a Sonic Yellow wagon at Flemington a few months ago. I wish I could find a picture of a package of Hostess Orange Cupcakes on the web because they are the same color.

Ed

himiler

Yup. I've probably seen 8 of 'em, mostly on the road.

thickers

CR has *never* rated the reliability of the WRX as 'below average' for either year it's been sold in the US, much less do they "keep saying below average repair history". Get your facts straight.

They have recommended the WRX 2 years in a row (the only years it's been available), and named it their most fun to drive car two years in a row too.

They do *not* reccomend a car with below average reliability. For example, they rave about the Ford Focus, rate it up there with the BMW 5. Its red bar is way out to the far right of their 'Excellent' zone on the graph, higher than any other car.

But they don't recommend the, Focus because of below average reliability.

rsholland

Not true. I have the current annual auto issue in front of me.

In a chart of "Sporty cars" (page 86), the WRX—while within the +20% to -20% average area—is a tad below average vertical line (which separates + vs. -). Eyeballing it, I would say it's about 8% below average.

Bob

cinosweive

Don't try to read too much into the bar graphs. The rex does show up just shy of the line representing "average" reliability, but average is actually a range, not a point. The rex is showing up essentially as average. Also, as others have pointed out, you are dealing w/ a very small sampling - not many rexs were made in 2002. So it doesn't take many problems caused by mods or abuse to skew the statistics.

sensei1

'02 was 1st yr here in North America but definitely not 1st model yr. of the WRX. The car has been around elsewhere except here.

I think it's too early for reliability ratings (long term) to be meaningful here anyway. The WRX doesn't have that long of a track record yet. But for Imprezas overall, the ratings have been good. As been mentioned already, abuse is probably the main culprit.

I'm going on 14.9k on mine and no problem, feels like the car's just now opening up. The 1st 5k I seldom listened to the stereo and I have the upgrade. Now I leave it on a little longer. But I still turn it off at times I want to wind up the tach a little.

rsholland

True, but other vehicles in this classification are also from a small sampling, such as the Honda S2000.

Bob

ateixeira

8% below easily falls into the range they label "Average". I realize we're splitting hairs, but I would not consider that "unreliable", not even close.

Statistically the 8% is not significant, so you cannot say with a reasonable level of confidence that a WRX will be below average.

I remember that from Statistics, the study of confidence intervals. 8% is a measured estimate from a sample, it is NOT an absolute measure. There is always sample variance. That's why CR groups the categories and calls the WRX Average.

You want unreliable? Try a Bravada, at 191% more problems than average as measured by CR, you might have almost 3 times as many problems as a WRX.

-juice

dgraves1

See, that depends on you perspective. Normally, I wouldn't consider buying a car with only averqge reliability. But for a first model year car, I will tend to ignore the model specific data because it hasn't been around long enough to really show it's colors. In this case I would go on the model and manufacturer's track record. In Subaru's case, this is pretty solid, so I would have no problem buying a WRX despite it's current rating. On the other hand, I would be very leery of getting something like a PT Cruiser, which has a very good reliability rating for it's first couple of years, but comes from a line (Neon) and company (Chrysler) with a pretty dismal track record.

ateixeira

You'll be glad to know that a guy from another topic who practices law (Lemon Law, specifically) said that Subaru Lemon Law cases are rare. He's seen a few thousand cases so I think that sample is significant.

You should follow some of the dealer topics, lots of juicy info there from insiders. None of them bash Subaru FWIW.

-juice

thickers

Look. Consumer Reports just doesn't recommend vehicles with "below average" reliability. Period. They recommended both the '02 and '03. Therefore, the view of CR is clearly that the US WRX does *not* demonstrate "below average" reliability, by definition -- as I explained in the first post. They like it and recommend it and single it out for special mention two years in a row. Just like almost everything else that counts.

And as others have pointed out, to put much weight on first year CR info in the case of the WRX doesn't make too much sense, regardless: 1) this car's abused relentlessly and modified cruelly by many of its drivers, 2) CR's report sample size must have been small, compared to the sales volumes of most of the cars they report on, and 3) their methodology is slightly questionable anyway, as I understand it.

A car's prior availability in the rest of the world is irrelevant to CR. They base their conclusions on US reports.

paisan

You all do know the '02 WRX is not a 1st year vehicle right? The driveline is probably at least ~5 years old, the whole car is 2 years old. It wasn't on sale in the US in MY'01 but it was in the rest of the world.

-mike