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Comments
Here's Dennis post on mudflaps a while back. I had it bookmarked.
There's a a very recent link to the Chevy-India site here at the Subaru Crew (somewhere?) that shows the car. There are also a couple of threads over at nasioc with that same link.
Bob
boomn29 - That definitely sounds like a plan. I just installed 17's w/summer tires and I'm loving the extra grip!
-Dennis
GM's I-6 engine is a truck engine, so I don't think they'd use that in a 9-3. Saab really needs AWD.
-juice
With this in mind you might be able to have the best of both worlds, the Subarus overseas that Subaru is scared to sell here due to price point, now they can. Saab can survive and thrive.
$25 grand is the price of the average car nowadays, how much do you really expect 227 hp and AWD to cost? Especially when street prices are closer to $22 grand, what is cheaper that offers similar performance?
The 6 certainly is interesting, but it's FWD and I've heard it's not particularly torquey even with the V6. Where's the helical front limited slip diffy, at the very least? That's a Ford Duratec block, by the way, you might want to wait and see if they're reliable.
Finally, we had a 626 and I still have a Miata - Mazda parts are GROSSLY overpriced. Find a good wholesaler or go aftermarket. If you buy OE parts from a Mazda dealer you'll pay $220 for an O2 sensor, $28 for a lousy gas cap, $8 for an oil filter, etc.
-juice
Also, I'm not sure upon what you are basing your statement that all engines start having problems after 60K miles but there is plenty of evidence that both turbo and non-turbo engines can go way beyond that without any problems.
But I agree the WRX is not a good car for you since you are primarly interested in styling and music.
"But I agree the WRX is not a good car for you since you are primarly interested in styling and music."
And don't forget that vegoen needs a pretty steering wheel too. Rules out the Rex.
Anyone else besides me having problems getting a clean read on the oil level?
There will be economy of scale, when Subaru will USE GM's purchasing infrastructure + hardware + OnStar system (which is usefull, in my opinion).
I6 - ANY engine will be better, than what they put in the car now. Their best 3 liter engine is nearly the same as the one in Saturn L (I saw Saturn L and Saab 9-5 parked next to each other - I'd say, I saw too many similarities, BTW).
AWD - that they should be selling to GM, since it looks like one way or another everybody soon will have one (though, IMHO, it's nice to have, but not a must).
May be WRX is a 22G's fourbanger, but, what a 4 cylinder it is!!! And, interior may be is not flashy, but it grows on you, and it holds - what else you need there? Well, may be the shallow cupholders SHOULDN'T BE IN FRONT OF THE RADIO (I have it on my Legacy, but believe it is through the whole lineup - hope somebody from Subaru reads this - for the godzillionth time - AND DOES SOMETHING). And, what's wrong with the steering wheel? And doesn't WRX have moonroof now (isn't it 03 or 04 option?)?
For those who think Subaru's are ugly - there is a ton of other carmakers. Mazda is one of them, & the 6 looks cool; but the 626 was one of the worst quality car, build by Ford here in US - my cousing had a few REALLY bad years with the 626 - and the parts are REALLY expensive, design of the car was so, that it was really tricky to repair it = a lot of money in the shop.
Miata is a toy, and pricy at that ($27G's - ouch!!!), but allegedly is of nearly perfect quality - correct me here if I am wrong. I work with a girl, she drives them, and, I would say she has uh-u, unhealthy feelings toward this thing... Could be a reason why she is still single...
Subaru priced the VDC above $30k and customers avoided it like the plague. Anything they sell at those price points would have tiny, tiny volumes. A 450hp Legacy, sweet as it would be, would be a niche-within-a-niche vehicle.
Plus, it's not Subaru that needs Saab, it's Saab that needs Subaru.
Keep in mind Subaru AWD cannot just be bolted on to any GM V6. Subaru's powertrains are set up in a longitudinal layout, plus their tranny is sort of integrated into their AWD. So for GM to use Subaru's AWD, they pretty much have to use Subaru's tranny too, and might as well use the boxer engine since no V6 would fit without a lot of re-engineering. Hence, the Saab possibility.
Miatas do tend to be of very high quality, but they're also built in Japan. I have a 1993 and I'd consider more reliable than most new cars.
-juice
VDC didn't sell well 'cuz it was 1) 2) was marketed poorly 2)overpriced (I belive, I said that somewhere earlier) 3) or was underpowered (did it have had bhp and torque close to 300, it would have flown of the lots).
WRX is niche-in the-niche -- and so what?
AWD - who will use exactly the same thing as it is build now? Of course it will be tweaked. But, in case with Saab, they want the WHOLE WRX PLATFORM with the drivetrain - may be they want the sister too?
The whole point is, it dead deal, which could be born only in sick lazy minds of GM execs. I am pretty sure it will not happen - and I am pretty sure Subary & dealers will fight with teeth and claws not to let the whole drivetrain to be transfered to somebody else. And, if they do that, it will not save Saab in any case. They have to find their own identity and new appeal to the customers.
Luk
I even asked this on the Dyno oil vs. Sythetic, and it was recommended that I use Sythetic due to the higher pressure that turbo engines withstand and that I was doing a great deal of driving (23K miles a year).
In other words, it would probably help.
One other thing, the three car companies are smaller players than many other manufacturers, which might be the reason for the lack of data on these cars.
Turbo Imprezas have been on the road for ten years in other parts of the world. They are reliable engines, period. Show me some facts that turbo boxer engines are failing prematurely. If you're going to try to convince us that the WRX is no good, give us some real facts instead of your so-called common sense (i.e guessing)
Secondly you're really in the wrong forum. I think my WRX is a great car, and really, trying to convince us that it's not a good value is pretty useless. I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise, you've already made up your mind, and so have we. I could have EASILY bought a G35, IS300 or BMW 3 series (I personally own two $25K USD cars and my wife drives another $27K Audi), so I'm not broke...I buy a new car every two years, and I chose the WRX this time because I felt it's one of the most fun sedans you can buy for its price. I was cross shopping the IS300 and I thought my WRX was a better car for what I wanted.
Another thing, the WRX, I believe, uses ball-bearings to help reduce friction for the turbine in the turbo, and increase longetivity. Not all turbos use ball-bearings.
One last thing, I have not read anything that states that turbo engines, especially the WRX, go (or at least the turbo) after 60K miles. With proper care, they should be able to last well past 100K miles. Why would Subaru bring something to the market that could seriously hurt their reputation with an engine that would need a major overhall every 60K miles? Where have you heard this?
Between the Mazda 6, the Accord, and the WRX for value, it depends:
- for all out performance, handling, and bad weather, get the WRX.
- for great handling and the ability to get a manual, a great interior and sunroof, and looks, while having enough room for a family, get the Mazda 6
- for comfort, ride, room, acceleration, and a great inerior, and quietness, get the Accord.
If you are looking for a sports car with some practicallity, get the WRX. If you are looking for a luxury car, get the Accord, If you are looking for a compromise, get the Mazda 6.
In terms of used vehicles - would lean towards an Accord vs. a WRX, since the WRXs tend to be driven much harder than Accords (due to their nature). You can get very good pricing on left-over 2003s and possibly 2002s, with the 2004s on their way.
What's the "Premium Package" that edmunds lists (but doesn't elaborate on)??
I’m normally only a reader on these boards; however, your posts made me cringe enough to post a response. I agree with WarpDrive that you are in the wrong forum, or at least taking the wrong approach. While we try our best to give constructive information, your approach is not very appropriate. All your bashing causes others to be defensive.
I feel that the 60,000-mile myth about Turbo engines is completely false. I have no scientific data, other than my experience with my previous car. I had an Eagle Talon Tsi AWD that went for 10 years and over 120,000 miles before I sold it (at which time is was still running fine on its original Turbo). In 1993 when I bought that car, many people warned me that I was going to have to replace my Turbo every 60,000 miles. They were wrong.
I do have one suggestion for you Vegoen. I’m not sure where you are at with your life and schooling, but improvement in your writing skills will benefit you in many areas of life. A simple thing like re-reading your post prior to submitting will catch a lot of mistakes. I found it very difficult to read and follow your posts.
Take care,
Paul
celica115 - Subaru OEM plugs for the WRX are platinum NGK's IIRC.
sunilb - check out http://impreza.subaru.com
vegoen - Get the Accord. Please! The WRX turbo continues circulating coolant even after the engine is off. I would get an Accord if I were you though.
-Dennis
My friends 1990 AWD Talon is still ticking. Many other things other than the turbo has failed, but the turbo is fine. Turbos have come a long way as the reliability record of the Japanese market Turbo Imprezas have shown. I think the bad rap on turbos is partly Chryler's fault, they install turbos on everything in the eighties and they all failed early. Just because one maker messed up doesn't mean the concept doesn't work.
As the above poster said, don't go around making accusations about the unreliability of turbo. If you really want to know, just ask politely. Don't go saying "well, it's bad value, because that's too much pressure, and turbos can fail early, so can you guys prove me wrong otherwise".
We, the WRX owners, think we have one the best cars for the price. If the value is so bad, perhaps you can suggest another AWD car capable of 5.8 0-60 for $25K or less that comes in a wagon or sedan. As proof, I mentioned that I could easily have bought a more expensive car, but I didn't, because the WRX's package and value and fun factor stood out in front of the other cars that offered more luxury content. So do I think the WRX is a good deal? HECK YES!
Anyway, I think you should have an open mind. Never did I think I would own a Subaru but I do now. You probably can learn a lot by following this forum, maybe you'll become a fan too.
We are here to help... Please play nicely.
:-)
-juice
Gettin back on topic, I'm disappointed the sunroof doesn't appear to be available on the WRX wagon. Rumors were floating around a while ago about minor engine changes to improve low-end power. Any more information available?
-B
Sure the electronic dash and trip computer thing didn't work as well as it did new, but the engine was fine with normal maintenance.
FWIW...
-Brian
The sunroof is now available on the 04 WRX I think. I don't know if it's available on the sedan and not the wagon though. I would assume it would be available on both.
BTW, Mazda recommends premium, too. The 6 uses the Duratec block (Taurus, Escape) and hops it up, so it's basically a highly tuned version of that Duratec engine. Jaguar's 3.0l goes even further.
Any how, I'd strongly recommend premium on the Mazda 6 as well. If you are really stuck on 87 octane, get the Accord V6, which is fine on the stuff.
-juice
Try some "white space" in your posts, i.e. use several paragraphs to break up your points into smaller (easier to read) sizes.
It's hard to read one big block of text.
-juice
ppek was not insulting or trying to insult you.
ppek was just suggesting. I would have to agree with ppek that you should read what you wrote before submitting it, as we all do. Not only to catch our spelling mistake, but also how what we wrote will sound or give impression to others reading our post.
Try to work on not sounding like you are all dressed up ready for a fight.
As for the Accord EX V6; Mazda 6; or WRX comparison. Have you test driven them for better comparison?
-Dave