Subaru Impreza WRX

corkfish

Man, you've got a very "unique" perspective on things.

hunter001

if a manual transmission is the only priority, then I believe you should honestly look at other cars like the Acura RSX-Type-S with its six-speed transmission. You cannot in any shape or form compare such refined 6-speeds to the kind of 5-speed available in the manual-WRX. I find the shifter in the manual-WRX below par when compared to the Six-speed of the RSX. The RSX-Type-S shifter is buttery while the WRX 5-speed is notchy and a bit crude. The RSX also has a well rounded personality with a fantastic chassis which ensures superb handling.

The above is on the assumption that a good AWD system is not a priority for you.

If the AWD system itself is a priority for you, then the Auto-WRX has one of the best AWD systems available in the market, bar none. Its torque transfer capability is phenomenal, which induces sublime handling, especially since it has a fantastically well-sorted chassis, very good sport seats and crisp handling suspension package. It also has a turbo-charged kick-[non-permissible content removed] engine with a crisp shifting Automatic trans that adapts to your driving style. It might take a while before learning the nuances of the transmission but once you do it, it is almost surreal concentrating on how telepathically the car transfers torque front to back back to front, exactly the way you desire it to, especially when blasting down a curvy mountain road. No other Subaru has the capability to do it, since this AWD that enables this sublime torque transfer (and handling) is not available in any other Subaru, including the manual counterpart of the Auto-WRX.

Later...AH

paisan

There is quite a finesse that is required to driving an AT agressively. It's not just mash down the pedal and go. I've gotten into some arguements and disputes with AH. (and I disagree with his post that just slipped in about the VTD being vastly superior to the AWD VC), but in this particular case, the Gung-ho MT people who put down the ATs don't realize the skill required to make an AT go fast. Nice thing is that for 75% of the time when I'm driving "normal" the AT works for me. When I drive agressively, I can make my AT go speedy but only after much practice.

-mike

hunter001

If you are comparing the Honda Prelude Auto to the manual, it is an apples to apples comparison with just the transmission being different.

If you are comparing the Toyota Celica Auto to the Manual-Celica, it is an apples to apples comparison with the difference only in the transmission.

If you are comparing the Auto-BMW330i to the Manual-BMW 330i, it is an apples to apples comparison with the only difference being in the transmission.

The same applies to pretty much every Manual car and its Automatic counterpart available in the market.

If you are comparing the Auto-WRX to the manual-WRX, you are comparing Apples to Oranges, since the difference in the transmission is only one of the several glaring differences. There is a huge difference in the way they transfer torque (the Auto-WRX does it telepathically - through the Torque-sensing Planetary Gear to an almost surreal level something the manual-WRX cannot dream about), suspension setups (Auto is setup sportier) and a variety of other differences. You cannot make a comparison with the trans alone being part of the argument. That is done by someone who is not truly aware of what they are talking about. You have to include every single aspect of the car before making a determination, unlike the other cars like the Prelude, Celica etc., where the only difference is the trans.

Later...AH

ateixeira

I disagree. The shifter in the RSX-S is also notchy, and the gates are close together and not very well defined. The 5 speed on the base RSX is actually a bit better.

If you want an excellent example of a shifter, look no further than the Miata's. Among Hondas, the S2000 is probably their best. It feels more "metallic", more direct and less rubbery than the RSX-S.

The manual shifter in the WRX is fine. Not the best, but certainly not bad. They have made some shift quality improvements since my 1998 Forester.

If you want to feel a bad shifter, try the one in the new Altima. Very vague and notchy. It's odd because Nissan has made great shifters in the past.

-juice

cptplt

I really appreciate all the technical info which various people have given on the merits of the various AWD systems on Subies but to mere mortals such as myself and 99.99% of Subie owners I doubt we could tell the difference between a car with VC and VTD or any other type of system. If its ice/snow performance we are talking about I would suggest that the tires would make a far bigger difference than any AWD system to average drivers. I certainly don't think I could tell the difference between the capabilities of the AWD on my 2 Audis or 3 Subarus I have had (except I've never had to fix the Subaru one unlike my Audis!). But I sure as heck can tell when I should have swapped my regular tires for the snows!
As for MT vs AT, some like vanilla, some like chocolate.Everyone to their own taste.
As I use my cell phone a lot in the car - shoot me now - even though I learned to drive with MT and my first few cars were MT, I need an AT or I would be driving even more dangerously than I do now!(Actually thinking back, my first Sube was AT because the Legacy LS only came as AT and wife insisted on a an airbag which wasn't standard then and a sunroof) . Though having the kids screaming in the car and keeping the stereo playing the right thing for them seems far more dangerous than talking on my cell.

beanboy

Again, please provide results showing the auto WRX suspension is indeed sportier.

The automatic in the WRX isn't impressive as the competition's automatic offerings either AH. It is after all only a 4-speed with no option of wanna-be manual capability.

Also curious about some of the other several glaring differences between the MT and AT WRX.

Let's switch gears and look at the WRX from the pure performance perspective. Which WRX would be faster on a race track, autocross course or drag strip?

I also find it interesting that most if not all people who switch from AT to MT equipped cars say they will never go back. Many MT folks who switch to AT vehicles say they do it for spousal, health or severe traffic reasons, but they enjoyed the time spend shifting for themselves.

-B

bull3964

I'm starting to think you were on the engineering team for the VTD, either that or Subaru just put the VTD on the Auto to give people somthing to justify it's purchase.

EVERY review i've read that tests both the auto and manual end up saying stuff like "virtually the same" or "no less capable" when comparing the VC to VTD. It may be different, but it's not vastly superior. My philosphy is KISS (keep it simple and stupid). Just because you can talk all you want about how it transfers torque around, doesn't mean that it is actually noticable to the person behind the wheel when compared to the VC. The VTD (since it's computer controlled) most likely just allowed them to tune the performace of the auto easier than if it was the VC since the transmission was also computer controlled.

It sounds like your sitting in a corner somewher rocking back in forth in the fetal position repeating over and over "The automatic is superior, the automatic is superior...." They are different to be sure, but one isn't necessarly superior to the other. You sound like a brochure for VTD when in reality, on this car, it really doesn't make any difference either way.

A learning automatic transmission is nothing new and subaru is not the first to use one. Just about all modern cars learn to some extend the driving habits of the primary person behind the wheel.

Every review I've read of the auto say it's adaquate, but not the best thing they've driven (though I'm sure you will just chalk that to the car not learning the person's driving habits off the bat)

Also, if the manual on the WRX is so bad, why does car and driver say things like "honda like precision" and "..a 5 speed that will make you change gears for the sheer joy of it.."

dop50

For one thing, you can't compare an AT with a MT, they are two different animals! They aren't designed to be the same, they don't even have the same purpose in life. The AT was designed in the first place so a person wouldn't have to shift. This makes the simple act of driving more fun for more people. Some people just never get the coordination down for the MT. That's not to say they "can't" drive them, it's just not as much fun for them. Yeah, you can drive an AT like it is a MT, but you may find yourself in the tranny shop getting it fixed too, if you don't do it right or too often. I know the trannies have come a long way over the years, but I can't believe the basic idea has changed that much. (I personally tore up a few myself, in years past.) Beside the fact that an AT is quite expensive to repair, I wouldn't advise anyone without proper experience to manually shift (either with the lever or the gas pedal) the AT unless it is designed specifically for that purpose. Just my opinion!

On the subject of MT shifters, It seems to me, that most of the people complaining about MT shifters are the ones with the least experience, and some with all this vast array of knowledge.
Not once, have I seen anyone even suggest that the problems may actually be somewhere other than the shifter. I'm not an expert either, but I do have a litte bit of knowledge, in that I know the shifter is hooked to rods and linkages in turn hooked to the transmission. And I also know that if anything gets in a bind for any reason, things won't be as smooth as they could be.
There could be tremendous differences in how well a shifer operates, just because of how the transmission fits in the car, or how long or short the linkages are, or how many bends there are in the rods. Everything has cause and effect. And generally, (and I don't know this for a fact in the case of the WRX, since I haven't actually checked it out. I'm assuming that transmission design has't changed that much over the years.) 1st gear and REVERSE, are usually at the end of the stroke in the transmission, which stands to reason why they are harder to get into. As well as the gears have to be meshing at the right speeds for it all to work smoothly.

They even sell a stiffer transmission mount to make the shifter "feel better". What does that tell anybody? Gee, it tells me that maybe there's a little more to it than just a crappy shifter. Just trying to shift too fast and getting something out of sync, would cause a few problems. Most of todays shifters aren't built as heavy as they were back in the 60's, and they aren't designed to just "plow" through the gears. I can't speak for everyone, but my shifter works great as long as don't try to force feed it.

Ken

1subydown1togo

need I say more?

hypov

hypov Jan 29, 2002 9:04am

Drive what you like.
If you can't, drive what you can.
Each choice of WRX is designed to give whatever choice opted the best driving pleasure it can offer. :-)

-Dave

ateixeira

Stiffer springs aren't necessarily sportier. I remember when the first Mustang Cobra came out, they actually gave it softer springs (but better shocks) to make it handle better.

-juice

hazdaz

It looks like you are in the same situation I was in about 6 months ago. I was lookin into getting a new car - the WRX was near the top of the list. I had pretty much made up my mind that I wanted a MT, even though I had never owned one before (or driven a MT car more than a dozen or so times around the block). I did have the experience of riding a motorcyle (which obviously had a MT), and knew for the most part HOW to drive a MT, just have next to zero practice.
I bought my MT WRX less than 3 weeks ago, and If you asked me if I was happy with my purchase about 2 weeks ago, I might have hesitated before I answered. But now, I enjoy driving it more and more as the miles pile on.
I took it up to some rural - hilly - twisty roads last weekend and boy did it feal in its element. I was caught in some NASTY stop & go traffic (as opposed to the USUAL traffic) last week, and DAMN did that suck. Whether someone should buy a MT or AT probably depends more on WHERE you live and what kind of driving you do, than IF they have driven a MT before - trust me, you will learn eventually (hell, like 80% of the cars sold in the rest of the world are MT, so it can't be THAT hard to learn, eh?). Also, the aurgument that the AT has a more advanced AWD system is kinda pointless - I think MOST of the people buying this car probably have never owned another AWD car before, so even the less advanced one in the MT is a HUGE step up from just FWD or RWD.
However here are a few observations I have noticed:
The MT does NOT feal faster than the AT car - atleast for probably 80% of the time. IF anything, the AT will 'feal' the faster one. I have yet to really mess around with learning how to launch the car (I'll use the bad weather as an excuse), but unless I nail it from a red light (get the turbo involved), I am always slower than even a slow AT car. Not having any MT experience, I was MORE than surprised by that at first.
Also, I do not know what kind of gas mileage you guys with the AT are getting, but while MTs are 'supposed' to get a little better MPG, I am lingering about 20-21 (about 1/2 city driving). THat was also disapointing.
But ya know what? Even with those issues, I am still liking my choice more and more.

-HAZDAZ

bluesubie

I must commend you first few MT posters who kept this very civil.

IMHO, an MT becomes second nature and you don't even need to think about it. My hand only goes off the steering wheel for a split-second when changing gears.

AH - You need to start your posts with IMHO, because most of your posts are your opinion. Regarding the torque split of the VC, it can range anywhere from 10/90 to 90/10. This was according to an email I received from SoA in 1998. I posted on-line and I'll copy it here once I find it in vmag.com's archives.
edit- found it: http://4x44u.vmag.com/forum/subaru/messages/712.html

Why do you refer to VTD as Torque Sensing? You're almost calling it a TorSen. I've scanned the WRX brochure and subaru.com and can't find that information. Please provide links and not speculation.

-Dennis

rex_ruthor

Dont know about the allegedly "surreal" handling of the AT compared to the MT, as have not driven it, but would make the comment that AT does not dictate a less sporty experience...its relative to the intended use of the car and the set up.

Most Corvettes sold now are AT...there is a reason why people who buy this ultra high performance car want AT, and its because its convenient and doesnt sacrifice performance. I have seen numerous threads on C5 forums substantiating that at the dragstrip, an AT is preferable because it will consistently allow times matching the MT times, as opposed to the variations of launch technique required for getting a good time in the MT.

That being said, perhaps AutoX and at the track are different stories, although I know there were several winning stock car racers who would only drive AT cars at places like Laguna Seca and Sears Point.

ateixeira

It's not about matching MT times, it's about getting consistent times run after run. That's because bracket racing is a hobby of many Corvette owners. They key isn't to be the fastest, it's to come as close to your dial-in time as possible, without being quicker.

Also, in a torque monster like the 'vette, gearing matters much less, so the fewer ratios have less impact on acceleration.

-juice

hunter001

Why do you refer to VTD as Torque Sensing? You're almost calling it a TorSen. I've scanned the WRX brochure and subaru.com and can't find that information. Please provide links and not speculation.

"Torsen" is the brand-name of a product from a company (Gleason Corp.) that manufactures Torque-sensing differentials. Hence, I refrained from using the name "torsen" (it is a brand-name) while describing the Torque-sensing center differential of the Auto-WRX. There are other companies too, that manufacture torque-sensing differentials, in addition to Gleason Corp, even though they cannot use the name "torsen" to describe it, since "Torsen" is the brandname of the product that Gleason markets. Something similar to saying, if Subaru comes out with the exact same AWD setup as the Audi A4 quattro, they cannot use the name "Quattro" to describe it, since "Quattro" is an Audi brandname.

Basically, this Torque-sensing differential that Subaru uses, will even permit variable torque distribution by varying the pitch of the planetary gear (upto about 35/65 or so. In the Subaru Rally cars, there is a knob that permits the manual changing of the default torque distribution front/back. In the Auto-WRX, they have not provided the knob that would enable the changing of the default normal distribution of 45/55 even though the vehicle does the distribution automatically when it senses the need for more torque front or back. The VC on the other hand, has a "rotation sensing" characteristic, and has quite a bit of disadvantages, when compared to the "Torque sensing" characteristic of the former, especially since the "rotation sensing" characteristic does not come into play until after the wheels have already slipped, while the "Torque sensing" characteristic acts well before the wheels feel the slip.

The AWD setup of the Auto-WRX is conceptually similar to the Audi A8/S8/other V8 equipped Audis. This is different from the setup in the A4 Quattro and also different from that present in the Audi TT Quattro. The A8 is an amalgam of both the A4 Quattro (uses Torque Sensing differential) and the TT Quattro (similar to the setup in normal Auto-Subarus with transfer clutches but without the Electronic integration available in the Auto-Subarus). The Auto-WRX also is an amalgam, since it has both a Torque-sensing Planetary gear and Continuously variable multi-plate transfer clutches that operate hand-in-hand, for the continuous transference of torque according to the needs felt by the torque-sensing center differential. It is this continuous torque transfer ability that enhances handling even during normal day to day driving. While starting from a standstill (or while accelerating), almost all the torque is on the rear-wheels. But as Juice pointed out a while back, the A8 also has integrated Stability control that the Auto-WRX does not have even though the Auto-WRX has an LSD to compensate for some lack it causes.

Now the question is, how does Subaru manage to put such a highly sophisticated setup in such a relatively in-expensive car ? My take is that since it is available almost in exactly the same shape and form in the Rally cars, it did not involve any additional engineering changes to reach the Auto-WRX. In fact, this AWD is proven in the most brutal of driving environments, due to which it will prove to be bullet-proof in day to day driving. Why not have it in the manual too ? From what I understood, the Rally AWD was better adaptable to the Auto setup than the manual setup. So the manual folks get shortchanged, even though the cars are marketed as Rally-inspired.

Later...AH

beanboy

Automatic is standard, 6-speed manual is a no-cost option on the Vette. The AT on the WRX is $1000 more.

I think Edmunds needs to step in and let us test the WRX wagon versus sedan as well as the AT versus MT.

-B

bluesubie

You still haven't provided me with any links to back up your VTD statements. I'm aware that TorSen is a brand and I'm aware that the WRC car, as well as some STi's use a planetary gear center diff (from a 22B http://i-club.com/gallery/22b_meet/17.jpg ). I also know that other 280 hp Impreza's (like the P1), use a VC. And FYI, even the standard 4EAT sends the power to the rear wheels on acceleration ( http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=84430&referrerid=767 note SubyTechMaster's comments).

Where's your link?

-Dennis

corkfish

Nascar, NHRA, indy, and rally drivers all use automatic transmissions. I could swear that when I watch them on TV, they seem to be shifting though.

barresa62

Give it up. You're like a broken record. I'm glad you like your automatic WRX (heck, I'm glad you're a fellow WRX owner!)but you're opinions on the auto vs manual subject are wearing very thin.

Stephen

dsm6

I don't follow NASCAR, or NHRA, but I do follow Formula One - they use sequential manuals exclusively - and some WRC (rally) events - I saw nothing but sequential manuals there too. Of course, there are many different levels of pro racing.

I'm hesitating as I post this, because I think the MT/AT debate has gotten silly. One more thing to consider, though, that has been mentioned before but not lately. With respect to the WRX, the auto is a four speed, the manual a five speed. So even if you take out launch heroics (dropping the clutch, brake torquing - neither of which I personally would do on a regular basis in favor of long term reliability) which brings the two closer in performance, at least for the WRX, the manual nets you one more gear ratio with which to play.

Which is the biggest trade-off? Convenience vs. some extra efficiency and another gear? VC vs VTD? Seems like a personal preference decision to me.

I can see how a drag racer would want an auto for consistency, but I'm guessing a pro drag racer wouldn't be forced into loosing a gear by choosing the auto.

hypov

Ask the Pro tonight.
Ask Ramana Lagemann and put the issue into final drive. ;-)

-Dave

paisan

It is outta hand! Drive what you like. I have 2 of the same car with both one an AT one an MT. I guess Ihave the best of both worlds!

-mike

rex_ruthor

Do you know how the AT torque sensing thing works, Im curious how the system knows to act in advance of wheel slippage. It was my impression that slippage is the triggering factor. The VC system acts very quickly, as Im sure you know, because its a hydraulic fluid reservoir, so pressure changes are distributed throughout the system virtually instaneously. I dont know what the response times of a mechanical system are designed to be.

twrx

I'll try to keep this civil. I have owned nothing but MT cars in 32 years of driving. I have owned Accords, civics, a delsol, a CRX and an Integra. I am just as satisfied with my mt wrx as any of the Hondas. I have the short throw shifter. It is as good as any previous Honda (can't say that about the forester I traded in). This is not based on a test drive, it is based on 10,000 miles of ownership.
BH (TWRX)

mgreene1

I have never been so grateful for a car as I am tonight. Talk about close calls! Today we got snow and lots of freezing rain. On the way home I was going around a curve at what I thought was a "safe" speed of about 30 mph in 3rd gear and hit a patch of ice. All of a sudden the WRX wagon went sideways. Fortunately, I stayed on the gas and was able to steer out of it (with a lot of drama), but just a few MPH faster might have been an entirely different story. About a month ago, someone was killed in similar weather at this very same spot.
This is just a reminder to keep it slow when road conditions are bad. With AWD and remarkable composure when sliding, it's quite easy to become over confident. The WRX is good. In fact, it's *damn* good (thank God). But it can't defy the laws of physics.
Finally, if you encounter an ice storm, make sure you have cleared all ice from the windshield wiper nozzles because it's easy for them to get plugged up and you won't be able to clear your windshield. I really like the car but, in the interest of safety, Subaru should offer heated windshield wiper nozzles and heated rear view mirrors for their US customers.

hunter001

I think I mentioned a while back about the article in either a British or Australian magazine (on the net), where there was a detailed technical explanation of it along with a comparison to some other systems. I have hunted around a lot on the net subsequently, but have not found that article again. Basically, when you find a very good article, it is advisable to cut and paste and keep a copy of it.

I will write to Subaru here and ask for a detailed technical explanation, since Subaru has been keeping the VTD-AWD pretty quiet, due, IMHO, to the possible adverse impact it would have on the sales of vehicles not equipped with it. Especially, if they were to publicise the impact it has on both handling in everyday driving as well as its effectiveness in really adverse weather.

rex_author:

I believe it uses terrain sensing algorithms with surface friction estimation technology - using a combination of speed sensors, accelerometers, gear position detectors, throttle position sensors and quite a few other things I cannot remember. By the time the slip develops, the torque would have been taken away from that axle . This is done in such a rapid manner (due to the direct mechanical action of the Torque sensing planetary gear) that no measurable slip will be felt by the driver.

The VC does not behave that way at all. It does not react until slip actually occurs - keyword here is "react". The wheel speed sensors detect a rotational difference in speeds between the 2 axles, that occurs when one set of wheels are actively slipping. This causes a shearing action on the viscous fluid, which is the medium of power transmission. This shearing action, causes the viscous fluid to thicken and thus "locks" the differential, after which power is shifted to the opposite axle. It does not take overly long for all of the above to happen, but it takes long enough to be felt very distinctly by the driver. Also, if the axle to which the power is transferred, starts slipping, the system tries to do the reverse (of the original transfer), but due to the "reactive" nature of it, too many rapid transitions, can leave the response wanting (due to the "reactive" lag between every transition), from the perspective of the driver and result in a squirrelly condition, not what one associates with a 4WD/AWD vehicle. But since these situations are rare and far between, it would rarely happen in your regular commute. If it is just one slip, once in a while, the system is reasonably effective in recovering and keeping the vehicle on course, which is what you normally experience while driving on these roads.

I too have a feeling that these issues are getting a bit old and might as well be retired. Unless someone wants to discuss these further.

Later...AH

ateixeira

The VTD may be able to "predict" slippage. Does anyone know if they use inclinometers, to sense if the car is going up/down a slope. In other words, if sensors exist for varying slopes, the VTD could send power to the rear wheels on a steep uphill, and to the front when engine braking down hill.

Anyone know? It would be nice to know exactly what data inputs the VTD system gets.

I bet is senses brake pedal location, so it you're braking more power is sent to the front axle, since more weight it there. Also, under heavy throttle more power could be going to the rears proactively, with a throttle sensor.

Stuff like that makes it proactive. I just wonder how many inputs the system has. It would seem like the more data it gets, the smarter it is.

"Terrain sensing algorithms" sounds like media hype. I'd like specific, hard info about it.

-juice

ateixeira

Warning: get ready for AH's victory dance. During the chat tonight, Ed Bentley of Prodrive basically said that they use the JDM-spec VTD system in Group N and Open class cars for the US Rally.

:-)

I warned you.

-juice

hypov

Boy, Juice, you're quick. ;-)

-Dave

ateixeira

Though Ed did say it had the manual adjustment button. That means it's the tranny on the STi. But it's related to the VTD we get, and certainly closer than the VC is.

-juice

hypov

I think the button(s) is preset tuning for specific conditions (i.e. gravel, snow...). Still a VTD?

-Dave

paisan

The way that all the AT subies and my Trooper are able to pre-determine when to shift power is via the computer. What it does is keep track of brake, speed, weight shifts, throttle position, etc. And it can predict when to move power. For instance, at a traffic light, I always punch the gas on the trooper out of the light, in the beginning, the trooper would chirp the rear wheels and then put the power to the front. After about 1000-2000 miles, it puts more power to the front axle *before* I hit the gas from a full stop, because in past experiences it was behind the curve. The subaru AT AWD systems (not just VTD) work the same way to pre-determine (this is on the latest gen AWD system on ATs BTW) where to put the power *before* slippage occurs.

This is why AH feels that the AT AWD System is better than the MT VC.

Me, I like em both. For average drivers the AT is good, for performance nuts like the people here the MT may be a better choice...

-mike

hunter001

I was all elated and getting ready for the victory jig but then decided that it is in poor taste and let it go. :-)

But when I started asking probing questions (during the chat), Ed Bentley grew cagey and clammed up. LOL. For me it was a burning desire to get more info from the horse's mouth. But the horse thought that I was a neighboring Mustang (horse) from a nearby stable (competitor !). LOL. Tough luck !

Anyway, Ed admitted that the STi is on its way here next year or so. So that's a good thing from the point of view of the enthusiasts.

Later...AH

beanboy

Anybody ask what transmission choice Ramana would make if he were shopping for a WRX?

-B

bluesubie

mgreene - You shouldn't post in the middle of a MT/AT rant. No one will see your post. :-) Great story! Yes, staying on the gas and even accelerating a little is the best thing to do when you slide.

Dave - I believe that STi's with that feature don't use the term "VTD", even though you can actually vary the "torque distribution."
I think the main difference is that you manually control the torque distribution in the STi's and in the VTD, it's automatic. But you probably knew that anyway. :-)

edit: Did some searching. I can't find that the adjustable diff. has a name other than "driver adjustable center differential. I looked around on 22B.com and a few other sites. Found some good info describing examples in which you would adjust the diff.
http://www.iwoc.co.uk/jpstir.html

So if the VTD does what the STi-RA does, but does it automatically, does that mean the VTD is even more advanced than an STi-RA or WRC car? ;-)

-Dennis

ateixeira

That was hilarious. Ed did suspect AH was a competitor with all his detailed question, I was ROTFLMAO!

Sounds like they use the JDM-spec AWD system from the STi, slightly more sophisticated and with manual controls, but definitely closer in concept to the VTD than the VC. I was surprised, because I thought the Group N cars were stock, i.e. VC-based. Nope, says Ed from Prodrive.

I knew the Open class cars were different, and I'm sure they are. But the info about the Group N VTD really caught me by surprise.

Dennis: it's more advanced in the hands of a non-proffesional, yes. The pros are experienced enough to adjust them manually and have engineers to back them up.

-juice

thecat

Good morning Subarooers,

Has anyone here replaced the speakers in the WRX? Those paper cone things are driving me nuts (short trip). I've checked I-Club and a bunch of those folks have switched speakers however it seems like they have all performed some surgery to accomplish the task. I'm just looking for an easy swap.

I replaced the speakers in the Forester, a few squares back and they were very easy since access is posible without removing the door panel. The WRX doesn't work that way .. plus apparently a spacer is required. It's a shame that I don't trust a car audio dealer to do the work .. but I don't. Comments ???
- Hutch

bluesubie

".. it's more advanced in the hands of a non-professional, yes. The pros are experienced enough to adjust them manually.."
Exactly!

Hutch - wouldn't crutchfield.com tell you which speakers are an easy swap?

-Dennis

ateixeira

Having said that, bring over the manual adjustments. Can you imagine playing around with a heavy rear-biased system, just for the fun of it?

-juice

ppek

I too am interested in upgrading my system. I got the upgraded speakers, which are marginally better than the stock ones, so the first place I want to upgrade is by adding an AMP and some subs. I have seen some posts on other sites where kids have filled their entire trunk with sub boxes, but I want something that takes up much less space.

Has anyone looked into installing speakers in the rear parcel shelf? If so, how big of speakers fit?

Paul

WarpDrive

http://www.topgear.beeb.com/content/latest/features/features/driverscar/01/

Beat out some pretty AMAZING competition.

Subaru: Get the STi here NOW!

narenji

Subaru's AWD didn't quite save me from an accident, but I did get my first experience of driving the WRX through snow on Wednesday at Mount Baldy here in So. Cal. The slopes were closed due to wind, but the parking lots were sort of plowed. Before entering the parking lot, there was a ranger type official there next to the sign that says that you need chains beyond that point. He stopped me and said, "Sir, you need chains beyond this point." I said, "I have AWD, is that enough?" He said to go ahead, but he had no idea Subaru's are all AWD.

Long story short, the car plowed through snow without any problems. There was about three inches of snow on the ground, and the rest had been plowed away. A lot of people in trucks were doing 360s in the snow, but I decided that that's not how I wanted my transmission to be abused. These guys were gunning their engines to make the truck rotate. Thank god there wasn't much grip, cause if the tires grabbed, the truck would be out of control. I guess that's how southern californians are when it snows. Its one thing to use your 4WD drive vehicle in snow, and it's another to do dangerous 360s in a very small parking lot by the side of the mountain.

cinosweive

Does anyone know the science behind those magic auto dimming mirrors?

thecat

Dennis - Yep Crutchfield does have speakers that fit the front (none for the rear) but I'm more interested in "real world" experience. Plus, you can't tell how a speaker sounds from the web-site.
Paul - there have been several posts at I-Club from people who have put ovals (6x9's) in the rear deck. This requires some fairly significant chopping and apparently the rear seatbelt mechanism is in the way.
cinosweive - don't quote me .. but I'm pretty sure that the mirror is controled by elves.
- Hutch

armac13

I hope you haven't gotten Patti into trouble by letting the cat out of the bag. Poor Patti, locked away in the lowest dungeon. :-)

Ross

kens

Man, all this AT vs. MT going on... Wonder if we would still have this discussion if Subaru just made VTD standard on all of it's models. ;-)

Ken

bedabi

Local members of i-club are having a meet in Queens, NYC today, Saturday, 2/2/02. See the link below for details.

http://www.sqc-ny.com

boomerdriver

I've enjoyed reading the last few hundred posts. Sorry, I have nothing to add to the manual vs automatic debate, but I'd love to hear opinions about the 2.5 versus the WRX. I'm an in-town driver who seldom drives on the expressway. I drove both cars today and fell in love with the WRX but wonder whether there is enough difference for a driver who just bumps around town to justify the extra price. Is the WRX a great car even if speed is not an issue?