Subaru Impreza WRX

hunter001

I think if your primary need is to drive around town and not really explore the handling potential of the WRX, then the 2.5RS should meet your needs very well. The WRX is well worth the extra that Subaru charges for it, but then again, going by what you stated your needs would be, I believe the 2.5RS should satisfy you thoroughly. If your needs had included highway sprints, blasting along twisty mountain roads etc., I would have stated that you need to go for the WRX; but since it does not, I would say that the RS should meet your needs just fine.

The RS does not have the rear LSD of the WRX, (has smaller brakes ??) and also it is sprung and damped a bit softer, even though you can replace the rear anti-roll bars (with the WRX roll-bars - $100) to bring it closer to the WRX in handling, if that is a priority for you. If you are looking to buy an Automatic, then the AWD is totally different in the Auto-WRX (much superior), when compared to the one in the Auto-RS. Hope this helps.

JMHO.

Later...AH

boomerdriver

Thanks, Hunter. I am planning on buying an automatic, so perhaps that's why I felt such a difference driving the WRX than the RS. Any idea why the WRX-auto's AWD is superior to the RS?
Boomer

wrxguy

After reading your post I had to wonder about several things. First let me say some things about the WRX. The WRX's power does put it in a class by itself. I do mostly around town driving my self and still enjoy the turbo power. Do I need this extra power to get me from point A to point B? No I don't. For me buying the WRX was an excursion of fun more than practicality. I considered the 2.5 RS for a while too.

I did not test drive one though. Ive read that they handle very well. You used the terminology enough difference to justify the extra price. Either car is great. My bias as an owner of a WRX is that the WRX in its stock form is flat out much more of an exciting car.

I would suggest do some more reading and some more test drving of both cars. I am glad that I purchased the WRX and the voice of my practicality didn't win this choice. So my simple answer to your simple question is yes. Yes there is enough difference to justify buying the WRX! Life is more than point A to B.

declansdad

Did anyone read the article in Motor Trend's latest issue about Mitsubishi bringing their Evolution VII over here to the states? Looks like it's going to pack at least 276 bhp(possibly 300) and is aiming it's sights on the WRX crowd. The Evo has standard 17" wheels, big Brembo brakes and the rear wing...should be here around August or September.

I just hope that Subaru will bring the STi version over here soon...PLEASE!

Michael

paisan

It won't have 276hp, they still haven't figured out the FMIC in the bumper, and haven't gone for US EPA Emissions testing yet. Talk to us after it goes through the emissions testing...

-mike

hunter001

Without going into too much detail, I would say that, the handling balance of the Auto-WRX is closer to a RWD car (normal power-split is 45%front/55%rear)while the Auto-RS is closer to a FWD car (normal power-split 90/10). In addition to that, the Auto-WRX has a Torque-sensing Planetary gear center differential and a 6-plate heavy duty clutch pack (response of the Auto-WRX in transferring power/torque front or back - depending on need - should be instantaneous), while the Auto-RS does not have the Torque-sensing planetary gear and has a 4-plate lighter duty clutch-pack (slower and limited capability to transfer power rear-wards). Only 2 Subaru vehicles currently being sold have the exclusive VTD (Variable Torque Distribution) AWD system - Auto-WRX and VDC Outback. All other Auto-Subarus share the AWD present in the Auto-RS. In addition to that, the World Rally conquering Subaru Rally cars have a heavier duty version of the Auto-WRX AWD system, which no other Subarus (except the VDC Outback) are equipped with.

Go through the following thread and you will get a detailed explanation:

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140498

Later...AH

paisan

The torque split on AT subies is 80/20 as per the engineer that Patti the rep from SOA posted a while back.

-mike

tetsujin

Just to clarify, the torque split on AT WRX is 45/55 while it's 80/20 on all other AT Subarus, right? In other words, that 80/20 doesn't apply to the AT WRX?

Thanks

paisan

non VTD/VDC enable AT subies = 80/20

-mike

tetsujin

Just to clarify, the torque split on AT WRX is 45/55 while it's 80/20 on all other AT Subarus, right? In other words, that 80/20 doesn't apply to the AT WRX?

Thanks

bluesubie

boomerdriver - Don't let the different AWD systems affect your decision on buying a new car.

My wife's OB has the same system that the auto RS does and it's great. I've driven it in everything from 18 inch snowstorms, to chasing WRX's through the hills and curves of western NJ/eastern PA.

The torque split may be 90/10 or 80/20 in "normal" driving but constantly changes during acceleration, deceleration, slippery conditions, etc. IMHO, you probably wouldn't be able to tell that much of a difference most of the time.

If most of your driving is around town, you might be happier with the RS's low-end torque.
Like wrxguy said, get out there and test drive! :-)

-Dennis

lark6

boomerdriver: Try to get the dealer to allow you to test drive the car on a variety of surfaces. When I first test drove a 4EAT Forester (rainy Friday after Thanksgiving 1999) the salesman had me drive through loose gravel and mud in addition to wet pavement. The changes in torque split over the various surfaces were noticeable. I almost feel guilty not giving him the sale.

Dennis: WRXes weren't the only thing you were chasing! ;-)

Ed

bluesubie

Yeah, Ed in his 4EAT Forester was leading the pack! :-)

-Dennis

jfhsea

Hello,

My friend just bought a 2002 Legacy L wagon, and I'm hoping to give her my surplus stock head unit. this isn't offered in the Legacy from what I see, but they're both double-DIN and the connector is the same from what I can tell. Anyone try this? Any issues with the bezel opening -- same as the "nose" on the 6-disk Panasonic unit from the WRX?
Any other issues? (Older Legacies had one wire reversed from what I can tell...)

Interesting, I haven't seen it yet to verify, but she said the Legacy is getting delivered with some (left over?) 16" WRX OE wheels and RE-92s. Wonder what that'll look like?

She was contemplating a used Passat wagon, but (and this confirms that my nasty experience with them was not an isolated one) she was treated so rudely and horribly by some guy at Carter VW/Saab here in Seattle that she fled to a Subaru dealer on the east side and bought the Legacy.

Jim

dbreaux

has anyone done or know of a way to lower the front springs of a wrx wagon without changing to adjustable ones in order to level the gap with the rear. I am pleased at this point with the handling and dont want to spend money on something that works fine, but with aftermarket tires and wheels I would like to level the gap.

rex_ruthor

and just cut them. The ride will suffer, but if its just the look you want, its the cheapest way. You can also buy spring clamps that will achieve the same effect with the added advantage that when you get sick of it, you can just take them off.

The best way to lower the car is, of course, with replacement springs up front. Eibach, Whiteline, H&R, Koni, all make aftermarket springs for the Impreza.

But you should also consider that the car is set up for optimum ride and handling from the factory the way it is. If it were my car, I would maintain the front suspension height where it is in relation to the rear, so as not to upset that balance.

paisan

The reason the front looks "higher" is because you need to turn the wheels, the rear doesn't need to turn, so the fenders are lower cut. I'd go with a 4-spring set whenever changing the height, because if you just lower the front, it will handle pretty crappy. On my XT6, I keep weights in the trunk to keep it lower due to being forced into front springs that were slightly lower than stock. (no OEM springs were available)

-mike

boomerdriver

Thanks everyone for your comments. I bought my WRX tonight and can't wait to ge tup tomorrow so I can drive it. Really appreciated all the advice and commetns.
Boomer

thecat

Don - Check over at I-Club.com. There is a topic on suspensions. I wouldn't mess with it .. but it's your car.

Boomer - way to go. You're gonna love it. Keep us posted regarding your imprez-sions. Ah, after break in that is.
- Hutch

francophile

The Legacy GT and Outback line have single- and 6-CD units mounted in the center console under the head unit. My guess is that fit should not be a problem, and a front cover might be able to be had from the Legacy parts catalog. Don't know about the exact wiring but it would make logistical and economic sense for them to use something identical.

As for the WRX rims -- great choice! I have them on my GT and they look fantastic. Do you know how much they charged your friend for the wheels?

Also, Edmunds has a Subaru Legacy forum. Nice bunch of folks, check it out.

Cheers,
-wdb

gandalf17

-----Original Message-----
From: PowerCenter, Feedback [mailto:powercenter.feedback@cnacm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 10:50 AM
To:
Subject: Response from Castrol your case number is

Thank you for contacting Castrol. We appreciate your interest in our products.
In response to your inquiry, Syntec 5W-50 provides the widest range of protection available. The 5W provides the most rapid oil circulation at start-up which is when most engine damage occurs and the 50 delivers a thicker high temperature oil film for ultimate wear and heat (viscosity breakdown) protection. Due to its wide range of protection, we at Castrol feel that this is the best grade for all vehicles. However, manufacturers recommend SAE 5W-30 and 10W-30 motor oils to assist them in meeting Corporate Average Fuel Economy requirements. By encouraging the use of this grade, manufacturers can utilize 5W-30 in their testing to qualify vehicles for CAFE. A lower viscosity oil like 5W-30 will provide an incremental improvement in fuel economy (approximately 2%) during vehicle qualification.
Given this fact, if your WRX is still under warranty, we recommend that you use Syntec 5W-30 year-round. If your WRX is not under warranty, we recommend Syntec 5W-50 year-round. Once again, thank you for contacting us. We trust that the information provided is to your satisfaction. Please contact us if we can help again in the future.
Genevieve Hendrix
Reference: 111546

bluesubie

What do CAFE standards have to do with maintaining the warranty?

-Dennis

subaru_team

on

I almost forgot that this was an Edmunds board.

My 2 bits - not an "official comment". Who would not argue the benefits of what they chose to purchase over someone elses choice?

I my job, I have the benefit of driving all models with all available transmissions. Why do I prefer a manual? I like to feel more "active" in my driving role. However, I wouldn't hesitate to race (if I did such a thing) in one of our automatic tranny's either. I've truly enjoyed both for different reasons.

Enjoy what you bought! You purchased what you wanted and no one needs to justify their decision unless it cost you lives or serious $$$'s. The argument will never be won by anyone!

Relax - go for a ride - get put into the dungeon - - -

Okay - I think I'm getting thrown back in now - - -

Patti

wrxguy

Congradulations.......... Have loads of fun and might wanna follow the recommended break in period. I like to say that because I had to suffer too.

jfhsea

Thanks for your reply!

Yes, I have looked around a bit more and I am pretty convinced that the WRX radio/changer will just plug right in. My last question is whether the bezel will need any Dremel work. We'll find out this weekend.

She got the red Legacy L wagon. I gather that they had some sticker on the window saying that the WRX wheels were ~$1200, but since she didn't really care about them (and had a fixed price in mind) I think she got them for free, more or less. I expect that they were take-offs from a WRX that they sold with a different wheel package. I think her bottom line for the wagon was ~$18.5K with destination.

Francophile, eh? Don't challenge my lousy high-school French, but I do love to drive around that part of the world as much as I can -- crash in cheap 2-star Logis, eat fatty foods, that sort of thing. A buddy and I just got back from a week's trip to go watch the Rallye Monte Carlo. Lots of bread-cheese-ham-bread-cheese-pate-wine-bread... as we camped out on the stages...

Jim

thecat

I've discovered a new use for the WRX. Actually maybe I finally discovered its design purpose.

My workload has been slightly overwhelming, for several months now. Today, I just couldn't take anymore. With the local country roads in mind, I decided it was time for some turbo-therapy. I'm pleased to report that 30 minutes of ripping around corners, some of which were 90 deg. Hairpins, at 60+ mph can do wonders for your perspective on life. I'm renewed.

I don't know if this is an A.M.A. sanctioned practice but I am convinced that it has the potential to put psychologists out of business.

- Hutch

ateixeira

You're putting Ross out of business! LOL!

-juice

armac13

to go out of business. I am curious about 90 degree hairpin turns however. I sort of thought they had to be 180 degrees to qualify. BTW, it's fine with me if you put the AMA out of business. I'm Canadian and a psychologist, not a doctor.

:~)

Ross

thecat

Hummm .. Ross, I thought "hairpin" was a term used for any sharp turn. Maybe I'm wrong. Now that I think about it, 180 degrees does make more sense. Ahhhh .. now I'm all tense again.

BTW .. isn't the ultimate objective of your profession to eliminate the need for your services?

Hutch

dsm6

Help! I've been thinking about maybe buying a WRX for a while now. I've test driven a couple, and have been checking in on the inventory at my local dealer every now and then. The thing is, now that I've been staring at it for a while, I'm actually starting to like the way this funky little car looks. I think I'm coming down with a case of WRXitis! Evidently one of the symptoms is blurred vision and hallucinations followed by the overwhelming desire to go really fast on even the slickest of surfaces! What do I do? Buy one :-) ? ;-)

Seriously, though - the dealer I talked to (about 4 months ago - Denver, CO area) wouldn't budge from MSRP. That seemed strange to me, given what I had read here. I left my name with him and told him to call me if he changes his mind (comes down a good bit from MSRP), but no call yet. Maybe it is a reagional thing, or maybe he didn't think I was serious about bargaining at that point (probably true) so didn't bother.

Anybody in the Denver area get a good deal that they'd care to share? TIA

hunter001

Congrats ! Take extra care during the break-in period and then gradually raise the performance to a more aggressive level and you should have a wonderful ownership experience. Have fun !

Later...AH

bluesubie

Hutch - Sounds like fun!

Darren - Definitely a regional thing. I didn't think there were any dealers still selling at MSRP.

-Dennis

ppek

I am from Michigan, so I can't help you with Denver specific pricing, but I can tell you what I did to get my local dealers down. The first one was at MSRP, then I found a "no dicker sticker" dealer that was $1,000 under invoice. I then searched on Subaru's web site and found all the dealers in Michigan and surrounding states with large inventories of WRX's (you can search dealer inventory on-line by zip code). I found one in Wisconsin that quoted me $200 over invoice. I then took this price to my local dealer and played real serious that I was willing to drive to Wisconsin, and they ended up coming close to keep me local ($400 over invoice).

I know that others have claimed to get at or below invoice, but that is my story, and I think I received a fair price.

You probably could try the same approach for other dealers in your state and adjoining states, and it might even be worth the drive if your local dealer will not budge.

Paul

ateixeira

Denver is definitely Subaru country, i.e. a high demand area. My friend lives in Fort Collins and says in the mountains you find trucks and Subies, that's it.

Though I'd expect by now they'd budge from MSRP.

-juice

boomerdriver

I've had a somewhat similar experience here in Chicago. I was able to negotiate under MSRP for a WRX manual, but had trouble locating a WRX automatic, especially in the rally blue color I wanted. Prior to buying, I checked all of the dealer inventories in a 4-state area and only located a handful of automatics (only 3 within 100 miles and only 1 in blue). The one in blue was at the dealer's house and I made an appointment to see it. Meanwhile, I got a call that a WRX came in to the lot of another dealer and I went right out to see it. Had to wait as it was being test driven. Some people came in to see it right after me. Needless to say, the dealer had no reason to accept less than MSRP and I was only able to negotiate a better trade in deal.

I was kind of surprised, too, as I had been able to get Camry and Honda dealers to go down to almost invoice and the posts here talk about WRXs sitting in the lots, but there's not many automatics in my area. I didn't want to wait to see if another WRX auto in rally blue would show up or not. I love it and and am glad I got it despite not getting any price deals. Good luck,

Boomer

armac13

That is the goal (in theory anyway). Shrinks are all crazy and we work for the elimination of our jobs - at least the good ones do. We specialize in (career) suicide.

Ross

hunter001

Your post confirms what I find in our area. The Auto-WRXs (Sedans or Wagons) get snapped up within a couple of days of arriving at the dealership. If they are Auto-WRX-wagons, then don't expect to find any beyond the 1st day or so after they arrive. I would have been willing to pay $1000 more for a wagon when compared to a Sedan, but in the US, the wagons are cheaper by $500 over the sedans, which worked out great for me.

Later...AH

makatak

I have a MT WRX, but it was a difficuly decision for me to choose the transmission. In the Boston area, the MT models were actually in higher demand than the AT models. At the time of my purchase, the dealer only had 2 MT's and 5 AT's. What made me decide on the MT was that, knowing I'd be getting a more basic center differential, I preferred the added control I had with the transmission. I figure that my driving conditions (mostly road in the Northeast with about 20 days max of heavy snow / wet out of a year), I wouldn't really exercise the center diffie in a way that really made a difference. I don't / won't perform any handbrake aided sharp turns, but I like the option of having that ability (with the clutch depressed to disengage the drive train while applying the brakes). I *DO* enjoy heel-toe downshifting on highway off ramps, or going into twisty switchbacks from speed. I haven't driven an AT able to do that smoothly yet, especially when I want to punch out of the last turn. I can't see myself doing 4 wheel drifts unless I take up pro rallying, but I sure do like having that option. Can this be done in an AT? Under what circumstances? I'd like to know.

Just my opinion...

paisan

I've done em with my AT XT6, not a problem.

-mike

bluesubie

With all of the different AWD systems, they have one major thing in common. Adjusting your acceleration affects how the car handles in slippery conditions. When you get on the gas, you're affecting how the torque transfers between the front and rear.

-Dennis

dsm6

Thanks for the advice. I'm looking for a MT Wagon. There's one that has been sitting on the lot of a dealer near where I work for about a month or so. Since it has been sitting, they might be willing to deal on it. It has some options I don't want, and its not my favorite color, though. I'm in no big hurry, as my current car still runs (though not well - hence the search for a replacement). Anyway, I can afford to wait to try to get a deal on the car I want. Maybe when I visit the folks in Michigan, I'll look around there too. FWIW, I think the car is a good deal at MSRP, but as I said I can afford to wait for a lower price.

hunter001

I believe the more a car sits on the lot, the more the dealer is willing to let it go at a good deal. They would have already used up the holdback (kickback) they get from the manufacturer for maintaining the car within their lot. So they would want that particular car out of there (even at a sale pricing) and hope to get the full holdback out of any car that newly comes in and gets sold right away (thus not using up any of the holdback).

Later...AH

wrxguy

I suggest trying the online price quote search engines. I did that and got back about five price quotes. You probably can get yours for 500 over invoice. Its like fishing if you dont like the bites (price quotes) then throw em' back into the sea. I purchased mine for 500 under MSRP in late september. You can do better than that at this time.!

cinosweive

If the dealer doesn't have your color, just wait. I have noticed that the colors appear to be shipped in batches. In December the dealers in my area had mostly whites. A month later they had mostly silvers. Blues were real big sometime last fall, I forget when exactly. Maybe just coincidence but it just looked like Subaru was shipping colors in batches.

I have seen dealers offering them for $500 over invoice - no dickering. But when you are ready to buy, a $200 to $300 "procurement fee" appears on the bill of sale. What's that supposed to be? Looks like $700 to $800 over invoice to me. Maybe I am just not good w/ math.

makatak

Right, the accelerator determines the amount of slip in AWD, but I wonder if it's harder to "lock in" the gear of an AT gearbox when you want to maximize torque by keeping the engine at a high rev (say the ~4K sweetspot in the WRX) while drifting in a turn. Would the transmission automatically upshift after a certain time? Does the gearing ratio make locking the AT into say 3rd gear less effective for transferring that torque to the wheels?

paisan

An experienced AT driver can keep it in 3rd gear w/o too much effort to do drifts and the like.

-mike

bluesubie

Or just drop it into "3" and it will stay there.

As mike said, it's an experienced driver. When I drive my wife's auto OB, I have to get used to it. Sometimes she can accelerate it faster than I can because she's used to how the tranny works.

-Dennis

dop50

How important is this "slow" break-in, anyway? What are the ramifications?
When I test drove mine, I had it up to 6000 rpm with only about 10 miles on it. Before I even know about a break-in. My other vehicles which I have purchased new, the book generally says not to drive a consistant speed for the first 1000 miles. In fact, when I bought my Dodge Durango, the book said to vary the speed a lot, but obey traffic laws. That's what it said, honest! So I'm wondering, what really is the difference?

Thanks,

Ken

wrxguy

I went by what the book said and kept it under 4,000 RPMS for the first 1000 miles. Still after that I was somwhat conservative. I was not clear, however on not staying at the same speed on the freeway until I had a couple hundred miles on it. I did not drive on the freeway that much though. It would be nice to hear from someone who actually works on these motors at Subaru to clarify the question on break in.

Most people play it conservatively and stay within the suggestions of the handbook that the car came with. The sales guy told me, "oh just have fun dont worry," but he is just concerned about selling new cars....I had previously read about the 1000 mile under 4,000 rpm here on this forum. I mean how many people buy a new WRX and read the manuel at the car lot before driving it home????

ponm

cars makes: Keep engine speed below 4k and try not to travel over 55mph. Soft braking for the first 250 miles and of course, the most important thing, an oil change and transmission fluid change at 1000 miles. Most car dealers are trying to tell you to wait till 5,000 miles now for your first oil change. Wrong. I believe they say that because many automakers include free oil changes in their warranty packet and it is cheaper for them every 5,000 than every 3,000 miles.