Postwar Studebakers

lemko1968

1959 Studebaker Lark:

uplanderguy

Nice color, and the year and model that probably gave Studebaker another seven years of production. Was this in a museum or dealer you visited?

It's funny, this year Studebaker made more profit than any year in its long (since 1852) history, before or after.

uplanderguy

My favorite Lark of my entire life was this '64 Daytona Hardtop at Hershey in 2018. Those wheels are repros of the Halibrands that were optional through Stude dealer parts departments for the '64 model year:






Pretty nice for a domestic compact at the time.

Second-favorite Lark was a black '63 Cruiser four-door I saw pics online, of. Had the Skytop sunroof, factory air, and dark red broadcloth upholstery. Very 'Benz-like in appearance.

lemko1968

@uplanderguy said:
Nice color, and the year and model that probably gave Studebaker another seven years of production. Was this in a museum or dealer you visited?

It's funny, this year Studebaker made more profit than any year in its long (since 1852) history, before or after.

This was in a place called the Classic Auto Mall in Morgantown, PA.

uplanderguy

Apparently that '64 was at Hershey again this month, as someone on Facebook posted ten pictures of it from there this year, today. Only 2,414 '64 Daytona Hardtops built between South Bend and Hamilton, ON, so even one without the supercharger is an unusual car.

uplanderguy

I've come to the conclusion that I like the '64 Lark-types and the '78 Malibu Classic for the same reasons....big interior for exterior size, not an ounce of fat in the styling, not an inch of unnecessary length or width either.

uplanderguy

Obviously, the Stude was built in far-fewer numbers than the Malibu though.

uplanderguy

I love old period photos in color. This is the grandfather of the owner of the pic, when he went to South Bend from Iowa to pick up his new '62 Champ pickup, in Dec. '61. Had the snowtires put on at the plant.

I'd love this very truck.

Round sticker on windshield says "We Stand Behind The Quality Of This Vehicle". Vendors sold those stickers for decades afterwards.

thebean

Me likey!! Can you imagine asking a manufacturer today to put snow tires on your truck at the factory? They’d laugh you out of the plant. I miss those days of good customer service.

uplanderguy

Not to mention, being able to pick your new vehicle up at the plant, at all! My old white '63 Lark Daytona Skytop was a factory delivery. The build sheet said "Walker To Hold For Customer" and "Service For Retail Delivery". 'Walker' was the shipping company Studebaker used. Plus, I subsequently met the original owners and they told me of picking the car up at South Bend.

sda

uplanderguy said:

Not to mention, being able to pick your new vehicle up at the plant, at all! My old white '63 Lark Daytona Skytop was a factory delivery. The build sheet said "Walker To Hold For Customer" and "Service For Retail Delivery". 'Walker' was the shipping company Studebaker used. Plus, I subsequently met the original owners and they told me of picking the car up at South Bend.

That is tremendous you were able to meet the original owner. I remember the pictures you posted in the past showing the original owner early on and then years later. Wonderful.

uplanderguy

Thanks.

fintail

Is factory delivery possible at all on non-premium brands today? I know MB/BMW/Porsche and likely some exotics do it, I wonder if any domestics do it.

uplanderguy

I doubt it, but don't know for sure. I remember asking at Lordstown once and was told 'no'.

The people who bought my '63 new, soon outgrew it and bought a new '65 Plymouth wagon (full-size) from the same dealer who sold them the Stude. They also picked it up at the plant in Detroit. They said they sat on bleachers with other customers, and actually saw the car come out of the plant door. It would have had to been serviced for retail delivery I'd think.

They didn't remember a whole lot about the South Bend pick up, other than the car was ready for them at an offsite location, and remembered a number of "suits" shaking their hands. I learned from build sheet research that theirs was the first car built with both a Skytop and Avanti engine. While in Indiana they visited family in Fort Wayne before returning to northern Minnesota.

I've heard other people say when they had a pick up at South Bend, Stude sent a car for them to the airport (train station was right next to the plant), and offered them a tour of the plant while they were there.

Now that I think about it, Bowling Green does offer factory delivery of Corvettes. When I toured there in 2006, it was funny....they had those cars for the day roped-off in a special area and had theater-like signage like you'd see in NYC, "Joe Blow Picks Up His Corvette Today". I remember hearing you were still charged the normal destination charge! I recently saw online where a 95-year old WWII vet picked up his new C8 at the plant. They moved him up in order status and he got his car after only a one-month wait after ordering at the dealer.

fintail

Factory delivery would be cool. I've been to the MB factory delivery center in Sindelfingen, as people taking delivery can do a factory tour, and normal tourist factory tour groups convene at the same point. There's a large covered garage where people pick up there car, and assistants to help with the tech, etc. I think you also get a lunch, and the US European delivery program includes a stay in a hotel the night before.

I guess back in the day, you just went to a big lot and picked up your car, reminds me of this late 70s pic of people lined up to take delivery (this model was an in-demand item for a number of years), what a color palette:

ab348

Cool pic. At least they aren't all silver/black/grey/white. Lots of butterscotch, beige and brown though.

imidazol97

About the Corvette factory pickup. We used to stop at the Shell station adjacent to the entrance to the Museum. The plant is on the other side of the highway. A couple of times I saw a brand new Corvette being gased up at the pumps there.

Neat.

kyfdx

BMW no longer has factory delivery in Europe

sda

kyfdx said:

BMW no longer has factory delivery in Europe

Do they still offer it in Spartanburg, SC at the US the factory there?

kyfdx

sda said:

kyfdx said:

BMW no longer has factory delivery in Europe

Do they still offer it in Spartanburg, SC at the US the factory there?

Yes, at least on the cars built there, but probably imports, as well.

uplanderguy

Came across this photo from 1997, where my friend took my pic headed into downtown South Bend in my '63.

Boy, with the round lights, the back is lit up well.

With the R1 engine, it had a really nice rumble at idle.

My '66, with the squared-off body, has small, squarish brake lights that actually aim down. I always sweat that when I'm driving.

This pic is about two miles north of where the car rolled out of the final assembly building, which I'm thinking was still there in '97. I remember during demolition of that bulding, whenever it was, you could drive down a parallel street, look in the partial building and see a long, overhead conveyor line there.

uplanderguy

I remember buying NOS bumpers in South Bend in '92 or so for $70 each. The guards were $35/pr. I was lucky.

fintail

I wish MB kept Stude parts prices with that old distribution agreement. Some time ago, some NOS fintail bumpers were offered by the Classic Center. I forget if they were ~$2500 apiece or per set - and even at that, I think they were snapped up. There are now stainless repros available out of Vietnam (I think) for a reasonable price.

uplanderguy

My previous '66 had mirror-quality replated bumpers. I gotta believe the restorer didn't know anything about all the NOS available in South Bend then. That seemed like the biggest piece of incorrect information--"You can't get parts for a Studebaker". Even Shifty used to say that. Far from it, especially for Larks of '62-66 vintage. Lots of NOS for those cars. Also, there's quite a bit of repro trim available, even for older models.

uplanderguy

In today's "Curbside Classics" blog--dead-stock '64 Daytona Wagonaire and '63 Avanti.

I'm intrigued by the Wagonaire, despite the clashing exterior color/interior color. But the car is so spot-on authentic. The interior is either original or NOS....including the door panels.

I've not seen the car before. Just when I think I've seen them all.



https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/car-show-classic/car-show-classics-1963-studebaker-avanti-and-1964-studebaker-daytona-wagonaire-natures-first-green-is-gold-her-hardest-hue-to-hold/#comment-1370413

uplanderguy

Short film of bone-stock restored gold '63 Avanti, like used in the brochure, backing out of a trailer at the Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals in Chicago yesterday. Always a good turnout of '63-64 performance Studes there.

This car is tantalizing to me...perfect factory looks, perfect factory rake, no outside mirrors (!), sounds great!

Driver is Craig Piper of Westmoreland Restorations, who did my '63 at my direction as a nice, authentic car but not a no-holds-barred restoration.

https://www.facebook.com/100010904022493/videos/293992255956534

sda

This I found to be interesting, imagine the outcome if development had been approved.

Porsche-Studebaker Type 542 (1952)
Studebaker could trace its roots all the way back to 1852; half a century later it built its first car and by 1954 it had merged with Packard. From here on things went from bad to worse, but in 1952, in a bid to stem the decline, Porsche developed an all-new V6-powered four-door sedan.

But Studebaker's head of engineering, a certain John Z DeLorean (1925-2005), felt it lacked refinement, it was poor dynamically and he hated the design. The car didn't progress beyond the prototype stage and by 1963 Studebaker was out of the car business.

thebean

@sda said:
This I found to be interesting, imagine the outcome if development had been approved.

Porsche-Studebaker Type 542 (1952)
Studebaker could trace its roots all the way back to 1852; half a century later it built its first car and by 1954 it had merged with Packard. From here on things went from bad to worse, but in 1952, in a bid to stem the decline, Porsche developed an all-new V6-powered four-door sedan.

But Studebaker's head of engineering, a certain John Z DeLorean (1925-2005), felt it lacked refinement, it was poor dynamically and he hated the design. The car didn't progress beyond the prototype stage and by 1963 Studebaker was out of the car business.

Wow, super interesting. I never knew of this car. Too bad Stude didn’t seriously consider it when it was first completed. I, too, wonder what if.

ab348

I recall reading about the Studebaker-Porsche prototype project. Here's a link to an old Special Interest Autos article about it.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2008/06/01/sia-flashback-a-studebaker-by-porsche

uplanderguy

Thank you for the link. I had seen pics of the car before. I wasn't very wowed, but I'm not much of a foreign-car guy at all.

DeLorean never worked at Studebaker, yet alone was "head of engineering". He did work at Packard in his late twenties. I'd say my 1966 Studebaker would be surprised that the company "....was out of business by 1963".

I guess anybody can write about anything without much research, and by then of course it becomes fact, sigh. That always makes me crazy.

I appreciate your posting the link and my complaining is about the original author, not you for posting.

uplanderguy

Curbside Classics blog from 11/30/21, about the incredibly rare 1962-64 Studebaker Diesel big trucks, with a couple of pics from back-in-the-day:

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/vintage-trucks/vintage-truck-1962-1964-studebaker-big-diesel-trucks-extreme-rarities/

uplanderguy

Came across these couple pics i haven't seen in at least a couple years. My former '63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1, with the original owner on Labor Day weekend, 1964, in Yellowstone, and in a photo taken by a friend of mine at his offer, probably around 2007 or 2008.


Someone had gone through the 35K-odd 1963 V8 build sheets and recorded the serial numbers with R1 or R2 engines, and what bodystyles they were. My wife (back when she'd do those things) and I went to South Bend and looked at build sheets for the 628 R-powered two-door sedans, four-door sedans, and two-door hardtops, to see how many of those R-powered bodystyles also had the Skytop sunroof. Only 14 were made with both those options, and ours was the very first serial number.

uplanderguy

In the view of the car straight from behind, with brake lights on, farther up here, I notice something I never noticed when I owned the car....how the side trim pieces around the center gas cap weren't centered!

I do remember at some point finding one side of that trim that was better than what was on the car (and it wasn't available as NOS). I took the old off and put the new on, but I doubt there'd be much wiggle-room in installing it.

uplanderguy

One last picture I just saw, taken the same day as the pumpkin-patch photo above. My friend's 15-year-old daughter was driving his Tahoe with him hanging out the right window to take this shot.

uplanderguy

Pleased that the guy who runs the "Compact Classics" FB page, who saw me post that last pic on another FB page, today has it as the big pic at the top of the opening page of "Compact Classics".

uplanderguy

Studebaker announced the U.S. assembly shutdown this date in 1963. Below are the front pages of the Chicago and South Bend papers.

uplanderguy

On the "All Original Cars" page on FB, which I love. These were always considered the last-bastion of low-buck Studebakering but from the multiple pics there, I totally believe the 4K mile claim. So nerdy, LOL, and in baby blue too. I can see why these cars sold well, to the economy-minded, and as a second car. And hey, it has electric wipers! It's in Ohio. I surely don't need another car, but the owner is considering a SBC installation. I wish he wouldn't, but it's his car of course.

I'm not exactly sure why, but these '59 and '60 Larks always reminded me of "Boo Boo Bear".

fintail

Without looking I will guess MSRP on that baby was something like $1700-1800.

uplanderguy

I dug out my August 1990 club magazine, which was about 1960 Larks. The 1960 Lark DeLuxe (base model like this one), six-cylinder 4-door sedan, based domestically at $2,046.00. That's more than I'd have guessed, too. Shipping weight of the base car was 2,592 lbs.

fintail

It appears a Beetle based a little under $1600 then - the Lark was definitely a more substantial car, but that's a gap. It appears the more comparable Falcon and Corvair were just under 2K.

uplanderguy

At first glance, this car seems to me to look more substantial than a Corvair or Falcon, but it's probably due to 15-inch wheels more than anything.

fintail

I wonder if size or quality/features were more important then. I know that was the era when many liked a "big and cheap" (ish) car, and larger more basic spec cars sold well.

uplanderguy

In my small hometown that never exceeded 10K population, and not a suburb, I seem to think that size mattered, LOL, to most people; 'size=value'. My Dad only ever bought one full-sized car, our new '74 Impala, and that was only that between when we bought our '73 Nova and when it was hit in Aug. '74, values of economical cars soared and with insurance we got more for the Nova than what we paid for it.

Dad equated size with price, and usually, so did I.

When he bought his first new car, a '67 Chevelle, I can remember it was parked between a new Biscayne and a new Chevy II. Like Goldilocks, Dad felt the Chevelle was just right and the others, too big and too small.

I've seen a gazillion '59 and '60 full-size Chevys in my lifetime, which has probably 'normalized' the bizarre-o styling. I think both look pretty ridiculous.

Cars like the Lark did well, at least for awhile, because some people were tired of cars getting more bloated without a commensurate increase in interior room, IMHO.

When the '75 Seville came out, it was the most-expensive Cadillac and I remember car mags questioning whether the U.S. public would pay more for a smaller Cadillac than a big Cadillac.

uplanderguy

Got this retail sale card, filled out by the dealer, from the Studebaker National Museum yesterday, for "Aunt Bee"'s 1966 Studebaker which she owned until her death in 1989. I also got the build sheet. The car was built in Oct. '65 and was shipped to a dealer in Santa Barbara, although Frances Bavier (Aunt Bee) bought it June 14, 1966, my eighth birthday, at Frost and French, a large Stude dealer in L.A.

The car sat unsold for eight months after it was built, and wasn't bought by Bavier until three months after the last Studebaker was built.

The salesman, Bibens, was the owner of Frost and French.

They stayed in business into the '80's servicing Studebakers, and supposedly went up and down the coast after production ceased, buying leftover new Studes from dealers who wanted out from under them.

I've seen these retail sale cards for many other cars, but never saw one with "Actress" filled out as the purchaser's occupation, LOL.

I've seen pics of the car, and it was prominently featured in the Mayberry R.F.D. episode called "The Mynah Bird" (1970), driven by Bavier in the episode. That was the last episode she was on the show.

fintail

IMO, the trim Seville was inspired by MBs - execs finally learned there were people who saw luxury and status didn't always correlate with mass.

Back then, a 450SEL was maybe 2/3 the size of a Fleetwood, but cost twice as much or more - and they sold every one they could bring over.

No doubt many Studes sold to people who thought cars became too big and kind of silly.

uplanderguy said:

In my small hometown that never exceeded 10K population, and not a suburb, I seem to think that size mattered, LOL, to most people; 'size=value'. My Dad only ever bought one full-sized car, our new '74 Impala, and that was only that between when we bought our '73 Nova and when it was hit in Aug. '74, values of economical cars soared and with insurance we got more for the Nova than what we paid for it.

Dad equated size with price, and usually, so did I.

When he bought his first new car, a '67 Chevelle, I can remember it was parked between a new Biscayne and a new Chevy II. Like Goldilocks, Dad felt the Chevelle was just right and the others, too big and too small.

I've seen a gazillion '59 and '60 full-size Chevys in my lifetime, which has probably 'normalized' the bizarre-o styling. I think both look pretty ridiculous.

Cars like the Lark did well, at least for awhile, because some people were tired of cars getting more bloated without a commensurate increase in interior room, IMHO.

When the '75 Seville came out, it was the most-expensive Cadillac and I remember car mags questioning whether the U.S. public would pay more for a smaller Cadillac than a big Cadillac.

uplanderguy

I still very-much like those first Sevilles--simple styling, nice size, American-style interior (buttery leather seats, etc.). I couldn't handle the '80--behind the rear doors, anyway, LOL.

A Stude friend of mine had parents who bought a bunch of new Cadillacs over the years. His Dad was born in 1914 and was looking at Cadillacs in '76. The wife wanted one of the last big cars. The Dad said "These (Sevilles) are the wave of the future". For a guy of his age, he was right. They had new '76 and '78 Sevilles.

fintail

First downsized Seville is still a nice looking car 45+ years later - that says something. The bustleback shows execs didn't quite get it, and were caught up in the weird formal pretentiousness that seemed to exist in some ways in styles of that era. That being said, I don't hate those cars, I thought they were somewhat exotic when I was a little kid, and the are a fun curiosity now.

uplanderguy said:

I still very-much like those first Sevilles--simple styling, nice size, American-style interior (buttery leather seats, etc.). I couldn't handle the '80--behind the rear doors, anyway, LOL.

A Stude friend of mine had parents who bought a bunch of new Cadillacs over the years. His Dad was born in 1914 and was looking at Cadillacs in '76. The wife wanted one of the last big cars. The Dad said "These (Sevilles) are the wave of the future". For a guy of his age, he was right. They had new '76 and '78 Sevilles.

uplanderguy

Yeah, Chrysler sorta cribbed it with their Imperial coupe, but it wasn't quite as drastic. Somewhere I remember reading that Chrysler had the idea first but didn't get it to market as quickly as Cadillac.

fintail

Also the Fox Continental in 82, a muted bustleback, but it is there. It and the Caddy sold well enough into the mid 80s, so there was demand.

uplanderguy

Yeah, I forgot about those Continentals.