Postwar Studebakers

uplanderguy

Sold by the widow of an Ohio Region S.D.C. member to another member very recently. 37K miles. I always admired this car. 1963 Cruiser in the 'Spring Color' of Sea Spray Green, with Chestnut interior--unusual combination but I like it. All original car. Back seat has fold-down center armrest not visible in the pic, and only the Cruiser had functional rear vent windows that year.

Last year she'd made me fudge for Christmas and told me if I wanted it we could work out a deal; she wasn't going to be hard-edged about asking price as her husband had had a couple other Studes she wanted to sell. This '63 was bought new in Canton, OH at Kramer Motors and lived in Canton its entire existence. I told her I really had no place or need for another old car at that time.

I know what the current owner paid and I don't think he stole it--he paid a slight chunk more than I paid for my '66 Cruiser four years ago, but it is a sweet car.

No, those turquoise mats didn't come with the car! A vendor offers them. I have those exact mats in my '66, but then, it has turquoise interior.

fintail

Is that one with "Mercedes Bends"? I notice it appears to be a cloth interior.

uplanderguy

Yes, I think it does have those! My favorite year four-door Studebaker. For a compact, it's formal in profile.

Original cloth and vinyl interior. I like the broadcloth optional interior better, but I'd take this car.

fintail

The rear door window profile also reminds me of the downsized 77 GM full sized cars.

MB also had a cloth and vinyl option, along with a fancy woolcloth.

uplanderguy

It does seem that Brooks Stevens, designer of '62-64 Studebakers other than Avantis and trucks, was looking at some of the cues from those other cars in the Stude showrooms then!

uplanderguy

RE.: Rear door profile(s)--I really like that cut on the '63 Lark four-doors, but also, it would clear a hat.

An acquaintance of mine has '56 Packard sedans. Large, expensive cars. The way the tops of the rear doors sharply slope down in the rearmost portions, more than once caused me to conk my head getting in. Inexcusable IMHO.

Stude's four-door sedan rear-door cutouts on the '53-60 cars weren't beautiful, but at least you could get in without hitting your head.

I vaguely remember looking at an old Consumer Reports from '63 I think where it showed a guy with a hat getting in the front seat of a new Lark. No problem. They also showed him getting in the front seat of a GM compact (thinking it was a Buick Special or Olds F-85) and getting his hat knocked off. Not the only reason to buy a car of course, but a point.

fintail

I wonder if Stevens saw the writing on the wall regarding consumer tastes and oversized sometimes overtrimmed (don't get me wrong, those can be very cool too) cars. A decade after that 63 Cruiser was made, MB and BMW were making strong inroads, and a decade after that, it was becoming a massive shift among highline buyers and a disaster for the incumbents. Some of Stude's reasonably sized cars was necessity, but it was also the future.

The hat test is a funny idea, I guess that fashion was ending by 1963. A friend of mine likes to say something similar when riding in the fintail - plenty of headroom, easy to wear a hat.

uplanderguy

From today's Motor Trend blog:

2021 Karma GS-6 First Test: Meet the Studebaker Avanti 2.0

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2021-karma-gs-6-first-test-review/?fbclid=IwAR3A2mEbJu1vnJNrzgIwYygtHAwBqz-hoC0DPpETYzkgMcuztkVM7pxbNdw

uplanderguy

Last Studebaker Avanti magazine ad, "Time", December '63.

uplanderguy

Ugh, sorry it reproduced so poorly. My cheapo tablet doesn't have a mouse, just the square you move your finger around on, and I never see 'copy' or 'copy image' as a choice, sigh.

imidazol97

A little better?

uplanderguy

Yes, thanks!

thebean

What’s “twin traction” from the list of optional equipment? I feel like I should know, but it’s not coming to me.

ab348

Studebaker's name for a limited-slip differential.

thebean

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the info.

uplanderguy

Twin Traction was first offered on Packard cars and Studebaker trucks in the 1956 model year.

I've seen information that GM first offered their version, Positraction, for the 1957 model year.

I've had two cars with Positraction (and one Studebaker with Twin Traction). My '81 Monte Carlo, and '93 Caprice Classic, both had Positraction. I really only remember having an opinion about it based on my Monte Carlo. It struck me way back then, that it was good in snow but worse than regular on ice. Very unscientific opinion, LOL.

My grandfather was sold on Positraction on his Chevys and I (smilingly) remember him calling it "Positive Traction".

uplanderguy

Was just discussing this 1964 Studebaker with 319 miles (in 2012, anyway) that wasn't sold as a new car until July 1969!

Among my two favorite '64 colors (Strato Blue), and I think the best instrument panel in that class of car that year.

I chuckle at the blue shift lever and turn signal lever. Painting them probably cost more that chroming them, like the upper models had. Similarly, I've read where the first Vega notchbacks had painted quarter window and door frame moldings and chromed was optional. Chromed was actually cheaper to make but customer perception was that chrome looked better and customers were willing to pay more for that, LOL.

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/hf12/hershey/lots/r145-1964-studebaker-commander-four-door-sedan/280871

fintail

That painted/chrome thing reminds me of the basic 220 W111 fintail, and W110 fintails. Instead of having chrome trim on the horizontal part of the fin, it was just smooth metal, some cars having a chrome piece on the edge of the fin only. I suspect it was more expensive to manually finish this section than to just put a piece of chrome over the ridge, which on chrome-laden cars is apparently not as smooth (I've seen images of the peak being finished by hand):

fintail

This afternoon I watched the nearly forgotten by me 80s teen coming of age movie "Vision Quest", after recalling it was filmed in my city and part of it not far from where I live. In the movie, this maybe rare car is spotted in a couple scenes:

Michaell

fintail said:

This afternoon I watched the nearly forgotten by me 80s teen coming of age movie "Vision Quest", after recalling it was filmed in my city and part of it not far from where I live. In the movie, this maybe rare car is spotted in a couple scenes:

I have the soundtrack to that movie on my iPhone.

uplanderguy

I'm not familiar with that film. The car is a '64 or '65 Commander two-door sedan, fairly-fresh-looking IMHO anyway, for a compact of that era. They are the rarest of compacts, then and now. Thanks for posting.

uplanderguy

Brooks Stevens' '64 Gran Turismo Hawk donated to Studebaker National Museum:

https://www.southbendtribune.com/story/lifestyle/2022/01/02/brooks-stevens-1964-gt-hawk-studebaker-national-museum-donate-cars/9024838002/

ab348

Michaell said:

I have the soundtrack to that movie on my iPhone.

I think the soundtrack was more successful than the movie. Crazy for You by Madonna, Hot Blooded by Foreigner, Lunatic Fringe by Red Rider, and Shout to the Top by Style Council to name a few tracks.

uplanderguy

I used to goof with my then-roommate, whenever "Crazy For You" came on the radio. Her final, complete flatliner, 'crazy for you' is goofworthy, LOL.

fintail

The Journey main song is what set me off on it. I was listening to an 80s playlist on Sonos, and the song came up - triggered a big wave of nostalgia, maybe due to it being kind of a sentimental song. I listen to a bit of 80s material, and it doesn't seem to be in any lists. I knew the song had a movie link, but couldn't immediately place it - the playlist referenced the movie, which triggered another old memory of it being local. Looked it up, and found it was actually right here. Kind of a predictable movie, but fun for very distant memories, and the local scenery, I recognized a lot. Only the one Stude in it (belonging to the woman in the lead female role, apparently it breaks down on a long road trip).

Michaell said:

fintail said:

This afternoon I watched the nearly forgotten by me 80s teen coming of age movie "Vision Quest", after recalling it was filmed in my city and part of it not far from where I live. In the movie, this maybe rare car is spotted in a couple scenes:

I have the soundtrack to that movie on my iPhone.

uplanderguy

This '63 Avanti sold at Mecum yesterday for $80K, before the 10% premium I think:

https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0122-485988/1963-studebaker-avanti-r2/

Something that would just slap me in the face every single time I stepped in that car, is that it has the front fender emblems used on Larks and Avantis, and not the simple "Supercharged" emblem used on Avantis.

That is a huge pet peeve of mine. People sweat all the little details, then think something like that is a 'meh, who'll notice?' thing. Everybody who knows the car will notice, sigh.

Even the '66 Impala SS used in the recent Christmas Chevy commercial has its "Super Sport" nameplates a couple inches too high. Easy to get right; very hard to correct.

ab348

I suspect few people buying cars at auctions like Mecum are aware of such fine points. A few cocktails, a large dose of hype, and the checks nearly write themselves at such events.

Michaell

ab348 said:

I suspect few people buying cars at auctions like Mecum are aware of such fine points. A few cocktails, a large dose of hype, and the checks nearly write themselves at such events.

Turns out Bring A Trailer sold more cars than Mecum and BJ combined, last year.

https://jalopnik.com/bring-a-trailer-is-the-new-king-of-car-auctions-1848332123

sda

ab348 said:

I suspect few people buying cars at auctions like Mecum are aware of such fine points. A few cocktails, a large dose of hype, and the checks nearly write themselves at such events.

A few??

uplanderguy

I'd posted this a year or so ago, but came across it again and like the pic. Late summer '63 photo of the Studebaker Administration Building in South Bend. President Sherwood Egbert's '64 Avanti R3 parked at the curb, with what looks like fintail's fintail parked behind it.

I would've just been ready to enter kindergarten when this pic was taken and I do have some foggy memories of that general period.

Hard to see, but when I blew the pic up originally I can see the "Studebaker" logo and red/blue 'lazy S' emblem on the watertower.

The President's office is in the upper left corner. I last was in the building in 2018 and it's still cool, with lots of carved wood and marble inside the president's office.

fintail

I remember that, do you have a higher res version of that pic? That fintail has to be the same color as my car. Must have been driven by a bigshot to have that parking spot.

uplanderguy

I wish I did. I have a cheapo tablet and beyond that, am technically challenged!

If you're on FB and go to the Studebaker National Museum's page and search for "Administration Building" it will show up.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I wish I did. I have a cheapo tablet and beyond that, am technically challenged!

If you're on FB and go to the Studebaker National Museum's page and search for "Administration Building" it will show up.

Here it is, expands greatly:

uplanderguy

Thanks Greg.

uplanderguy

South Main St. (the building is no. 635) would have been a heavily-travelled street then; hell, it still is now. Hard to believe those cars are parked right where a bunch of cars would be whizzing past them, plus the fintail's driver's window is completely down and it looks like Egbert's Avanti's driver's window is partly down.

I'll just say that the neighborhood hasn't exactly improved since then.

My hunch is that that building might not be long for this world. I'm happy I've gotten to see it, largely unchanged, inside.

uplanderguy

fin, I'd agree that that parking spot would probably be for an upper-level exec. I know that a fellow named Lon Fleener headed the M-B operation at Studebaker, but not sure if he was still doing that in 1963. Amazingly, Egbert's secretary, Martha Rich, ended up marrying Fleener sometime shortly after Studebaker shut down U.S. operations I think (administration still was in this building during the Hamilton, Ontario assembly days). I met her a couple times in the '80's and '90's--charming lady who by that time lived in CA. Lon Fleener was a good bit older than her. He had passed before I'd met her. She was pleasant but I could see her being the 'gatekeeper' type.

There's a '62 Studebaker video online, produced for dealers and/or shareholders I think, where Egbert is talking and she walks in and puts something on his desk. He says, "Thank you Martha". I thought that was cool to see.

imidazol97

Here's the page on FB
https://www.facebook.com/StudebakerMuseum/photos/a.2463525993109/10158287202608110/

What are the last 3 cars in the row on the sie of the building?
A convertible?
Hawk?
???
Is the truck a Studebaker?

uplanderguy

‘62 Lark convertible; then, when I blow the pic up on my phone, my guess would be ‘58-60 Thunderbird, then VW Beetle. I think the truck is a Ford.

fintail

Thanks. I wonder if the flagpole is real, reminds me of some of the touched-in material seen in old postcards. I assume the pic was for some kind of promo purpose.

ab348 said:

uplanderguy said:

I wish I did. I have a cheapo tablet and beyond that, am technically challenged!

If you're on FB and go to the Studebaker National Museum's page and search for "Administration Building" it will show up.

Here it is, expands greatly:

fintail

Maybe he was wanting to be inconspicuous - I'd have imagined an exec would be in a coupe or cabrio (which were much more expensive than sedans). Not sure if the sedans had a huge amount of prestige in 63, but to some, that was some of the attraction.

uplanderguy said:

fin, I'd agree that that parking spot would probably be for an upper-level exec. I know that a fellow named Lon Fleener headed the M-B operation at Studebaker, but not sure if he was still doing that in 1963. Amazingly, Egbert's secretary, Martha Rich, ended up marrying Fleener sometime shortly after Studebaker shut down U.S. operations I think (administration still was in this building during the Hamilton, Ontario assembly days). I met her a couple times in the '80's and '90's--charming lady who by that time lived in CA. Lon Fleener was a good bit older than her. He had passed before I'd met her. She was pleasant but I could see her being the 'gatekeeper' type.

There's a '62 Studebaker video online, produced for dealers and/or shareholders I think, where Egbert is talking and she walks in and puts something on his desk. He says, "Thank you Martha". I thought that was cool to see.

uplanderguy

The pole is still in that spot on the building--at least last time I was there.

Studebaker had a photography department. I think this pic was probably just part of the record. There are some '64 pics along the production line, and also 'glam' shots of them out at the Proving Ground. Far-fewer factory photos than up to the '50's though, which is why I like the '60's pics so much. Some of it is that I was alive then, although barely aware, LOL.

uplanderguy

Someone posted this 1964 factory photo online recently.

Someone posted under it, “why is there blood on her skis?”, LOL.

uplanderguy

April 1965 photo, after production was gone in South Bend, of the overhead conveyor over Sample St. being taken down. Engineering Building is at left. There was a large open courtyard area in the center of the building, where 'spy stuff' could be done. For the first decade, about, of the 2000's, that building was used as Studebaker Auto Parts Sales Corp., known as "SASCO", which was owned by a fellow named Dennis Lambert, who grew up in town and as a teenager had worked for the Newman and Altman Studebaker dealership in town. I'd been in there a bunch of times buying parts.

Used by permission of the South Bend Tribune.

Bodies were built in a building a fairly-short block to the right of this pic, and were transported via the conveyor through a building on the right, across the street, over the Engineering Building, to final assembly which was to the left of the Engineering Building in this pic.

Bunch of Studes in the pic.



Studebaker Administration and parts distribution were still in South Bend even though all production was being done in Hamilton, Ontario at this point.

uplanderguy

Photo posted twice; sorry I can't delete my own post. Why would that be?

kyfdx

uplanderguy said:

Photo posted twice; sorry I can't delete my own post. Why would that be?

Not sure... I know you can edit within 30 minutes. Maybe, you can't delete? I can.

fintail

Spotted in suburban Seattle on another forum:

uplanderguy

Man, in my world, that is schweeeet!

Probably the best '63 color IMHO, Blue Mist, and put a wheelcover on it (reproduced and easy to find), it looks like a two-year-old car. Looks like tinted glass too.

No apparent rust at bottom of tailgate; still has the 'LARK' letters on the front fenders; correct off-white wheels; front bumper guards in correct position. No usual nitpicking from me!

Thanks for sharing. I had not seen it.

uplanderguy

Seattle is pretty dry; at least from the need for road salt, correct?

uplanderguy

I believe that '63 is a fixed-roof wagon, since it does not have the "Wagonaire" script on the tailgate. Studebaker left that off when it was a fixed-roof wagon.

The script is available as a reproduced item, and inexpensive, so as nice as the rest of the car appears, seems if it were a repaint or whatever, the owner would've bothered to reinstall the nameplate if it were truly a 'slider'.

kyfdx

I think wagons are cool, in almost anyone's world.

That one is amazing!