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Postwar Studebakers

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Comments

  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    edited May 2011
    Sorry. I should have said, TOMATO soup. A bit more red than this slightly modified Stude:

    image
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Kill it with fire! :shades:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Man, that thing is hideous!

    I see an '83-86 Thunderbird in there.
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  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    edited May 2011
    I like that one. Now that's art school rather than old school. Really underscores how strange and weird a bullet nose Stude must have looked in the post war market. Compared to the "cash cab" minivan behind it, this looks like a Roger Corman taxi. And it's double parked next to a Long Island airport shuttle. Next stop, the NY state pavilion!
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Yep.

    Even worse than those dopey 49 Ford conversions on 89+ T-Birds and Cougars that were a minor fad in the 90s.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    It does have a bit of a Roger Corman look to it. FWIW, I always liked his special treatment of the VW Karmann-Ghia

    Actually, the first time I saw this car, I mistook it for a Studebaker!
  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    Really underscores how strange and weird a bullet nose Stude must have looked in the post war market.

    The Studebaker design came out too radical because its disloyal designers were working for the competition in their spare time and then tried to outdo Ford with their 1950 models. Here is the Bourke Studebaker design.
    image

    See http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2005/05/01/hmn_feature9.html for story.

    Studebaker also made the front end of that design into a full-size model before the 1949 Ford appeared, but I cannot locate an image on the Internet.

    Not only were Robert Bourke and Robert Koto disloyal to Studebaker, Virgil Exner was secretly working behind Raymond Lowey's back on his own designs for the 1947 Studebaker.
    http://www.studebakerpictures.com/bulletnose.history.html.

    Although the 1950-51 Studebakers look funny now, they were actually the best selling Studebakers of all time. Studebaker produced 343,164 cars in 1950 and 268,564 cars in 1951 which equals a total of 611,728 Studebakers with that nose job. That two year figure exceeds the entire number of Larks sold in eight years.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    This car is in beautiful original condition, probably the best I've seen on eBay in a matter of years, and it could not bring a bid equaling the '57 Packardbaker wagon of last month:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1956-PACKARD-PATRICIAN-80K-ACTUAL-MILES-VERY-NICE- -AUTO-/230622046951?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item35b2252ae7

    The V8 and trans are smooth and powerful, but can be a service headache.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Neat car. I like the badging, not just a Patrician, but "The Patrician".

    Bids seem not too bad even if it is one of the best ones remaining - it's still a big weird 4 door.
  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    People make fun of the 1957 "Packardbakers" but I think they were the best looking non-Hawk Studebaker-Packards of 1957.

    image

    Things could have been worse. Consider what Nash did with the Hudson "Hash" in 1957

    image
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    I agree. One thing I like about Studes of the period is trim width and low beltline. The '56 Patrician is a luxurious car, marketed against Cadillacs of the day, but it looks so chubby and has such a high beltline. The '57 Packard looks svelte in comparison (although that wasn't a sales advantage in '57).
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  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Where did "The Patrician" fall in the Packard hierarchy? I recall they had a Packard Executive in 1956 which was a Clipper with a senior Packard front end clip which was the base senior Packard. The Caribbean was the top of the line. I believe they still had "The Four Hundred."
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The front end on that "Packardbaker" looks like it would've made for a nice 1955-56 Cadillac.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    In '56, they actually called the Clipper a separate "make". There were three levels of trim: Deluxe (4-door only), Super, and Custom.

    The Packard Executive was introduced in spring '56 and replaced the Clipper Custom. It had the 'senior' grille and revised side trim from the Clipper Custom.

    The "senior" Packards consisted of "The Four Hundred", "The Patrician", and the Caribbean (hardtop and convertible only).

    "The Four Hundred" and "The Patrician" were identically trimmed; one was merely the hardtop version of the other. So, "The Patrician" was Packard's top-line 4-door sedan in '56. They didn't build a 4-door hardtop.

    My little hometown Stude-Packard dealer sold the 18th-from-last Caribbean convertible. The car survives in beautiful condition in Kernersville, NC. I've posted a link to color photos of it on delivery day in July '56 here before.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    OK, it's not postwar, but I've been admiring this '31 President at the Studebaker National Museum for years. It's a beaut, and I'm not typically into prewar cars.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130528744668&
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  • halsworthyhalsworthy Member Posts: 12
    Great piece of advertising. Very simple:)
  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    edited June 2011
    My suggestion was not followed and this forum ended up as "Postwar Studebakers." However, it was later determind that the term "postwar" meant anything Studebaker built after the American Civil War, which opened the discussion to horse-drawn (and goat drawn) wagons, so I am not bothered by the restrictive title.
  • halsworthyhalsworthy Member Posts: 12
    Oh my... What possessed them to make this?! And that color? With a Honda Civic in the middle???
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    I like Avantis a lot, and this car has had a stunning restoration, but I think it's BEGGING for whitewalls! I feel pretty surely it was built with whitewalls.

    Hemmings Classic Car has beautiful photography, but some of their uninformed statements are mind-boggling to me. There's a photo of the interior of the Avanti mid-restoration with a serious comment about the car's 'rust-free floorboards'. Duh!
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited June 2011
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Studebaker-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZalgoQ3dLV- IQ26ituQ3dUCIQ26otnQ3d1Q26poQ3dLVIQ26psQ3d63Q26clkidQ3d871657418603143253QQ_trks- idZp5197Q2em7QQitemZ200623217469

    This is a nice car, same model as I own without the Skytop sunroof but with the R2 supercharged Avanti engine...a big plus in Studebakerdom. I'll be interested to see how it does, but his BIN isn't outrageous based on past history. I'd like to see pictures of the trunk side panels and corners, and I can't see why he wouldn't have removed the seat covers, but a sharp-looking car.

    IMO this is the Studebaker that most shows its Benz affiliation of that time period.

    One small thing I'd have to add...I think the chrome rear fender shields, which add just a splash of chrome in front of the rear wheel openings, really add a lot to these cars.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Neat car, but for the money I don't know if I want the air conditioned trunk option :shades:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited June 2011
    My '63 has a hole there for access to the fuel tank sending unit. My hole isn't jagged like that one, though! There is a metal cover that screws over the hole, and repros are available cheap from Studebaker International.

    With the general economy, I'll be interested in how this car does.

    Similar topic, today my wife and I got our signatures on the title to our R1 '63 Daytona Skytop notarized, as the deal with the same Australian fellow who bought my '64 is sealed now. The car will get picked up this weekend. After 23 years and a restoration which I didn't perform but was actively involved with, I may shed a real tear when the car goes. The sale price isn't $25K but it is comfortably within five figures.

    The car looks not unlike the black one on eBay, but is a factory, creamy Ermine White with white folding sunroof and red bench seat interior with column shift automatic and factory air (that doesn't work). Remember that the original owners came to see it last fall, which was a wonderful visit. They traded it in '65 and hadn't seen it since.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited June 2011
    The Aussie dollar is pretty strong right now, and they love American cars...so that makes sense. Sounds like a cool car with the sunroof. It'd be cool if my old car went back to der Vaterland should I ever want to sell it.

    I think 25K on that black car is pretty optimistic given its imperfect (admittedly nice and clean ) condition, but all it takes is two people to fall in love with it.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    There are some opinions on the Studebaker Drivers' Club board from folks who think they remember this black R2 as having some serious rust in the trunk and elsewhere. That seems to have possibly halted bidding at this point, but we all know what can happen in the last few minutes of an eBay auction.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Rust in the trunk does appear to be pretty strong...next place I would closely inspect is the floors. For 25K, some patch panels wouldn't be too much to ask for.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Sold for $16,100.00.

    That's $1,100 more than I sold my R1 Daytona for, with the sunroof, but no rust.

    Still, healthy for a 1963 domestic compact, closed car.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    The supercharger does the trick, no doubt.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Not everybody likes Avantis, but I just love this turquoise '63 on eBay with 10,700 miles. This is a car I'd love to have if my wallet could swing it...which I feel quite certain it wouldn't:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300580228269

    I'm a big fan of the turquoise color, and the '63's round headlights in covers and non-woodgrain interior. It'll be interesting to see what it hits.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I like it. Early car and all original - originality is very cool these days and I appreciate it. That'd be one to have, but you really couldn't drive it much.
  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    Not everybody likes Avantis. . . .

    That is a very nice car and if the price stayed in the $12,000 range I would borrow money to buy it because I think that is less than half the price it is worth. My favorite color combination too.

    No need to apologize for the Avanti. Plenty of rich and famous people were proud to own one (partial list here) http://www.theavanti.com/celebrity.html

    The Chevrolet Corvette did not have a good beginning either, but few people are apologizing for that car.

    By December 1953, Chevrolet had a newly equipped factory in St. Louis ready to build 10,000 Corvettes annually. However, negative customer reaction in 1953 and early 1954 models caused sales to plummet. In 1954, only 3,640 of this model were built and nearly a third were unsold at
    year's end
    . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_(C1)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's the V8 that saved the Corvette in 1955. You're right, GM almost canned it.

    Even so, a '53 Corvette can bring $200,000 today. You won't see any Avanti at that price in the foreseeable future, probably not ever. Why is that?

    I think that if the Avanti had been produced without a Studebaker affiliation or name it would probably be worth more today---like a Shelby Avanti or some such.

    Car celebrity is like Hollywood celebrity sometimes--it's just a matter of luck, timing, etc, rather than actual talent or merit.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    I will be interested in what this car brings. Typically, R2 Larks and Hawks have brought more than Avantis, but this particular car is so darn nice.

    I reiterate that Egbert's '64 sold in excess of $75K a couple years back. I'm not sure how much it being Egbert's car added to that. It was an R3 which certain folks will pay a lot for.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited July 2011
    Corvettes bring more because they are a Chevrolet product...and Chevrolet has always appealed to the masses--at least, back when.

    Six-cylinders and a two-speed automatic only, and questionable styling (IMHO) for '53-55. Even though a Chevrolet product, they only built 300 '53 models--less than one-tenth the number of '63 Avantis built (the '63 model year was an extended one for Avantis, however, being introduced in spring '62). Chevrolet only built 700 '55's, even with a V8 available. That's less than one-fifth the number of '63 Avantis built, and even less than '64 Avantis built in the abbreviated '64 Studebaker model year.

    The first Corvette I thought was a beautiful car was a '56...simple lines that still look great.
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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    The '56 is a beautiful car. I had to look up the pictures to see how it differed from the 53-55. It's art is perfect. The car looks exactly like what it is, a specialty sport car. No extra gimmicks beyond very appropriate styling of some other very sporty cars in those days.

    image

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited July 2011
    Bid to $25,101, with eight days left on the auction.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    What exactly do you DO with a car with so few miles on it I wonder. If you drive it around a lot, you immediately start to depreciate its value; if you don't drive it, why exactly did you buy it? I never got the "low miles" thing with classic cars, except...EXCEPT...their value as documents for historical accuracy.

    I hope whoever buys a low mileage car gets rock-solid proof of the miles.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    I'd drive it 1-2K miles a year is what I think I'd do...although with this summer being so damn hot, I bet an Avanti is not a very fun place to be when it's 100 out! No AC in a supercharged car!
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited July 2011
    I bet you could add vintage air. I doubt it would hurt the value of most Avantis---but I guess you wouldn't want to do that to a low miles original. I mean *I* would probably do it (respectfully), because I like to drive my old cars, but I can understand if someone paid a huge premium for an extra low mileage original and had to have it "factory correct".

    My personal feeling is that most mass-produced cars are so plentiful that if you modify a few of them, no harm done. it's like like you are altering 1 of 8 existing or some such.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    When you said 'add vintage air', I thought of this in the listing:
    "The original tires have 5200 miles on them, and are still inflated with 1963 South Bend, Indiana air from ’63."

    Might be hard to get more "vintage air" :P
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    The fellow who is selling has been driving the car since he bought it. I'm not sure, but it may have had only 5,200 miles when he bought it in the past few years.

    Not related to this particular car, but this thread has a neat pic or two of ten new Avantis on two transport carriers in South Bend in what is probably summer '62. Studebaker President Sherwood Egbert is in the photo. I'll take the black supercharged car right above the truck cab in the front of the picture. (You'll need to page down a bit in the link.)

    I believe the truck in the back of the picture has a sign that says "Avanti--The Flying Wedge". I did not know the car was promoted as a 'wedge' at that time...usually that word wasn't heard in relation to an automobile until much later.

    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?53024-The-Lamberti-papers-- 1
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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >"The original tires have 5200 miles on them, and are still inflated with 1963 South Bend, Indiana air from ’63."

    That's funny. Of course, if you fall for the nitrogen for tires folk story, the old air had to all seep out because they didn't put in nitrogen which never seeps out! (Never mind that 80% of our air is already nitrogen (N2).)

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    I had to chuckle at bit at the "1963 South Bend air" comment too. All I take that to mean is that original tires were still mounted on the original rims.
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  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    The images of the Avantis on the truck are interesting because they show the thin line white wall tires that came from the factory and because the second car from the front does not have white wall tires. I never noticed that all wheels were white. Mine were white, but so was my car, so I never thought twice about it. Learn new things all the time.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    edited July 2011
    From a November 1962 Milwaukee newspaper article regarding the Studebaker Avanti:
    "The company claims the aerodynamic flying wedge styling of the Avanti gives it the appearance, while standing still, of speed arrested in time."

    I don't recall anyone claiming the wedge look until the Triumph TR7 had the "shape of things to come."
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Thanks Omarman, for posting this. It confirms what I thought I read on the truck sign, and also confirms Studebaker was using this slogan at the time.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well the *press* used the term, (incorrectly) not Studebaker. Avanti really isn't a true wedge design as stylists understand the term. Wedge cars are a continuous wedge from bumper to windshield. Here's a list of wedge cars:

    WEDGE CARS

    I think an Avanti is more attractive than a typical wedge design, which has fallen way out of favor today among collectors.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    The Studebaker Avanti did have a designed-in forward "rake", which gave a bit of a 'going downhill' look which I like. I dislike that Avanti II's lost this and the big-radius front wheel opening, in that the Chevy engine wouldn't fit in the Avanti engine compartment with the rake.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I remember reading a lot of old Avanti advertisements and they mostly emphasized performance and ease of driving. Very little mention of the styling other than the usual "distinctive" or "different".

    Whenever Studebaker tried to go upscale, it seems they ran into worst trouble. They did the same thing in the early 1930s, with dire consequences (bankruptcy). Maybe they had no choice, can't say, I don't know.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Yep, after Pierce-Arrow went away, Messrs. Hoffman and Vance went about rebuilding the company and the product line. They soared in '39 with the Champion, and the '59 Lark was somewhat of a replay of that '39 success.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I've seen a very rare Studebaker from that time which you may or may not know about...ever hear of a 1931 Studebaker Four Seasons Roadster?

    It's a lovely car. It's quite valuable...I'm sure the most valuable Studebaker one could buy... I believe they made fewer than 100 of them. What makes them valuable is that they have roll-up windows, dual sidemount and a rumble seat---so touring with one is quite comfortable compared to just about any other open car of that period.
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