Postwar Studebakers

uplanderguy

A good friend owns two white '61 Larks now--a convertible and a four-door wagon. I'll have to forward him this clip and tell him that apparently only clowns drive '61 Larks!

omarman

Sweet childhood memories... Remember when clowns at the circus would sweep chicken feathers out of the back of a Studebaker? Good times.

uplanderguy

The way the woman in the back seat makes the slow turn towards the camera...must be 'Mother of Chucky'!

uplanderguy

I can't remember seeing interior space versus exterior size advertised by automakers until the '77 full-size Chevys, where they'd have six cubic-foot blocks stacked and say "This is how much more interior room there is in the new Chevrolet than in our nearest sales competitor's old-style full-size car", and they also had an ad for the car called "The Long-Legged Coupe".

Studebaker was exclusive in that size-class in '59 with a V8 and a hardtop, in '60 with a convertible and I believe, a four-door wagon. In '61, V8's were available in the Buick-Olds-Pontiac compacts but no convertibles. By '61, still, no one else offered a compact hardtop. Lark still offered a two-door wagon in '61, one I wouldn't mind owning although I like the '62-66 styling (especially '63-64) better although there weren't two-door wagons after '61 except for fleet sales.

uplanderguy

CORRECTION: I see the '61 Valiant and Dodge Lancer were available as hardtops.

omarman

Maybe that Studebaker spot was inspired in part by this 1960 Renault Dauphine advert. Back then the economy car was still just a "fad."

uplanderguy

We discussed this here not long ago, but I've never heard a good thing (in person) about a Dauphine.

fintail

The dearth of survivors might show the cars weren't engineered for North American driving conditions.

Mr_Shiftright

Well you have to view the car relative to what else was available in its class, namely the VW bug and some dinky-sized British cars of dubious reliability. The Dauphine was prettier than them all, had a great heater, excellent MPG, better brakes and handling and was comfortable and quiet inside.

What it didn't have was parts and service, and ability to withstand the American climate. (anemic electrics). These two fatal omissions took a while to come to the surface. Until they did, the Dauphine handily outsold the VW for some quarters in the sales year.

The VW, of course, was also superior in build quality. Nothing small could touch it in that regard.

So really, you could look at all the small-car offerings in 1960 as pretty awful in one way or the other. But if you had to pick your poison, the VW bug would be the best choice.

uplanderguy

It looks to me like clowns should be stepping out of that red Dauphine in the ad!

isellhondas

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well you have to view the car relative to what else was available in its class, namely the VW bug and some dinky-sized British cars of dubious reliability. The Dauphine was prettier than them all, had a great heater, excellent MPG, better brakes and handling and was comfortable and quiet inside.

What it didn't have was parts and service, and ability to withstand the American climate. (anemic electrics). These two fatal omissions took a while to come to the surface. Until they did, the Dauphine handily outsold the VW for some quarters in the sales year.

The VW, of course, was also superior in build quality. Nothing small could touch it in that regard.

So really, you could look at all the small-car offerings in 1960 as pretty awful in one way or the other. But if you had to pick your poison, the VW bug would be the best choice.

Now, are you suggesting that VW bugs didn't have great heaters?

Wow, I haven't seen a Dauphine in YEARS! I remember they had a two tone horn and they came with a crank so you could start them that way! Renault had a cheaper model too but I forget what they were called.

fintail

That would be the Renault 4CV, smaller than a Beetle or Dauphine, and somewhat unbelievably were sold in the US:

isellhondas

That's it! I knew a guy who had one! Only 1295.00!

bhill2

One of my father's co-workers had one of those. It had an electric clutch. I never rode in it, but I assume it worked the way that a VW Beetle Autostick did; it declutched when you moved he stick to shift, and clutched when you took your hand off afterwards.

uplanderguy

'63 Gran Turismo Hawk as prize on "The Price Is Right" with Bill Cullen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyts9e1hw6A&feature=youtu.be

berri

I'm old enough to even remember the Milton Bradley Price Is Right and Concentration table games, so I remember Bill Cullen. Kind of a coincidence that Cullen and Drew Cary have similar hair and glasses

uplanderguy

He hosted a bunch of shows. Pittsburgh native. Likeable guy; never a smark-aleck. Had polio as a kid and had a distinct limp which I remember seeing on a show or two.

uplanderguy

Pretty obvious that Hawk didn't have power steering.

uplanderguy

Since we talked about Benz bumpers covered in cosmoline not too long ago, this comment was made on the Studebaker Drivers' Club forum two days ago. Interesting:

My father was hired by Roth Plating, Studebaker's plating supplier, in 1959-1961. His first job was to buff down Mercedes bumpers damaged on the boat. If only one bumper was damaged, they had to re-plate both front and back because the Roth plating was so much brighter and shiny than the German plating.

fintail

That's funny, as in my experience, old MB chrome wears very well. I am pretty certain all of it on my car is original, and I have seen many neglected cars with OK chrome.

uplanderguy

All this reminds me--when I owned my previous '66 two-door sedan, it had had a body-off restoration on a rust-free car, by a shop that wasn't versed in Studebakers, apparently. The bumpers looked like mirrors--obviously replated...at a time NOS bumpers could be bought for $70 each in South Bend. Those were good enough on my Skytop's restoration. The paint on that '66 though--if I had paid for the restoration, I wouldn't have accepted the car. Tiger stripes, dirt in places, thin in some places, orange peel, etc. The guy who painted my Skytop, conversely, did a wonderful job. It was white though, compared to a metallic light green.

fintail

I have seen NOS fintail bumper sets come up now and then. I think around 3K per side. Chrome is a funny thing, make it too perfect, and it clashes with imperfect body and paint, then you have to dig deeper - paint, interior, etc.

High quality paintwork is an expensive thing these days. If I was to ever have the paint and body done on my car, I would budget a minimum of 10K.

uplanderguy

I would totally recommend the place that restored my Skytop for me, and in fact I'd consider the shop owner and his family, friends, these 25 years since. But at the time, he was only $21 an hour, cheap even then. And he was a Studebaker-only business then. He does all makes now.

While I think I helped save an unusual model Studebaker then, I would never go through a restoration again. Although my current Stude is nowhere near the coveted model in Studebakerdom that Avanti-powered Skytop was, I love the originality and low mileage of it, even with patina. Funny, what's called 'patina' now used to be called 'Geez, you could stand to have that thing repainted!', LOL.

I was told that my Cruiser spent thirty years in FL, and I believe it probably was in a carport as the right side is noticeably less shiny than the left side.

fintail

I am glad the "patina" movement has taken hold, less pressure to restore. At one time a person might have said the cosmetics on my car are just a little tired (it is far from low mileage), now they have "character".

Could you have a professional paint correction done to polish and buff out the paint on the new old car, or is that too risky?

uplanderguy

Probably, but I'm nervous about that.

First job in the spring is to get a friend of mine to fix the broken stud on the manifold in front which partly held the carb on; broke off when he removed the carb last fall.

That, and three trips to a local exhaust shop, and it still has an exhaust leak. Their cheery attitude declines each time I pull in. Last time, they suggested the 'famous' Chevy motor mounts of that period might be 'soft' and contributing to things coming unsealed. It's a 283 with single exhaust; about as basic as they come, LOL.

I'm going to see if my friend will bleed the brakes and refill the brake fluid with new, and do an oil change and lube too. I have yet to find a local place to do work, which I really need to do. My friend lives an hour away.

Two nearby places were recommended to me. The one guy said he wasn't taking 'special' jobs until spring, and the other guy supposedly is a jerk but a good mechanic; I was told to just accept that in him. I haven't tried him yet.

I think some old-car owners seeking service make it bad for the rest of us. I want to tell these guys that I'll help them get parts if they want; other than that, I realize they'll do the work around their daily stuff, at their convenience, and I'll stay out of the way and get the car out of there as soon as they tell me its done.

fintail

It's a blessing to know a good patient mechanic. The guy I take the fintail to is like that, but I am also understanding like you mention - I stay out of the way, and am not upset by delays. I take it in for the yearly service and checkup a few weeks before the big local MBCA gathering, to allow time for issues. Usually there's a hold up, and I just say "take your time". He's also not jerky and has a big following, which is nice. He'd probably also work on your Stude if you asked nicely - claims to be MB only, but other cars show up, Jags especially.

uplanderguy

You are lucky.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

That's funny, as in my experience, old MB chrome wears very well. I am pretty certain all of it on my car is original, and I have seen many neglected cars with OK chrome.

The best chrome in that era, was, ironically, British.

imidazol97

Related to the chrome issue, but not on Studebakers. At a car show in Indiana 7 years ago and a 55 Buick had rechromed bumpers along with some other parts. The chrome actually had a blue tone to it. It was too new and fresh looking. And a 55 Buick has a LOT of chrome front and back.

I always wondered about how it ended up with the blue tint. I meant to investigate what may have been done wrong in the plating steps or in the chemistry, which if I recall my textbook days is a three step process.

berri

Wonder if the mix was contaminated by something like copper?

imidazol97

I started searching for that question and I found that the true chrome plating has a blue cast to it. Nickle plating has a slight yellow softer cast to it. Auto plating should be nickle plating following by a light chrome plate. That may be why my dad, born in 1900, always referred to the brightwork on cars as nickle rather than chrome.

https://www.finishing.com/faqs/chrome.shtml

https://www.finishing.com/60/82.shtml

uplanderguy

I love bone-stock, and while I prefer '62 and later styling, I can see why these first Larks sold well. They were in the center section, the prior year's standard-size Studebaker, in a much-shorter package. Came in V8's too. This car's asking price is more than my '66 with fewer miles and a V8, though. My hometown dealer said he had to hire a salesman in '59 and up til then had done with him and his Dad selling. It was the first model year in five without a Packard product in the line, and made the corporation its largest one-year profit in its 107-year history.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/studebaker/lark/2069941.html#&gid=1&pid=35

bhill2

uplanderguy said:

I love bone-stock, and while I prefer '62 and later styling, I can see why these first Larks sold well. They were in the center section, the prior year's standard-size Studebaker, in a much-shorter package. Came in V8's too. This car's asking price is more than my '66 with fewer miles and a V8, though. My hometown dealer said he had to hire a salesman in '59 and up til then had done with him and his Dad selling. It was the first model year in five without a Packard product in the line, and made the corporation its largest one-year profit in its 107-year history.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/studebaker/lark/2069941.html#&gid=1&pid=35

I have always liked the early Larks, possibly because, as a college friend said about my Volvo, "They're so square and funky." Also, I had a girl friend then who drove a '60 V-8 with overdrive, and it was quite the traveller. The one shown here, though, not only has a six, it is a flathead. I didn't even know Studebaker offered one of those that late in the game. I imagine it is a little leisurely.

uplanderguy

Leisurely, for sure. '60 was the last year for the flathead six at Studebaker.

uplanderguy

It's goofy for me to see, '59 Larks had 'Hawk' emblems on the grille and steering wheel. The stylized Lark 'bird' was first used on the '60 models. I like that better.

AMC used flatheads even later than '60, as well as vacuum wipers as was recently discussed on another Edmunds forum.

Mr_Shiftright

Chrome plating techniques are heavily regulated in the U.S., and certain former methods are strictly controlled or outright banned in some places. So newer methods of plating are used, and to make up for the color differences from "the old days", additives are thrown into the mix. Naturally, if you don't get this right, you'll end up most likely with something like you saw.

You CAN duplicate the look of the 50s chrome, no doubt about it--but a) you have to know what you're doing, and b) it costs a whole bunch of money for show quality work. If you wanted show quality chrome on a '55 Buick, done all the way around on every piece, it would probably exceed the value of the car depending on the model.

uplanderguy

I looked at the link for that '59 Lark this morning and it shows "sold". I think there's usually a market for original, low-mileage cars. I love that myself.

Mr_Shiftright

I wouldn't call it original though. Yeah, I know, there's a big debate about what "original" means. I'm an "originals" Ayatollah and call a repaint a foul.

uplanderguy

It's got it on the authenticity stuff, outside and inside. It is an original color. I believe the mileage. I can't stand stuff labelled "original" and ten feet away I can tell missing emblems or nameplates in the wrong place, non-original-style upholstery, etc. Some shops think nobody notices that stuff, but anyone who knows the car can spot that easier than even orange peel or other lame paint work. One nice thing about Studes is that the build sheets are available to verify colors and options.

uplanderguy

Cute little '55 Studebaker Champion Regal Conestoga wagon up for auction at Sotheby's. Too bad it's not a Commander.

https://www.rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/AM18/Amelia-Island/lots/r0049-1955-studebaker-champion-regal-conestoga/641388

I don't know those cars enough to comment on interior authenticity, but the outside is sure 'on'.

This is an early '55 as mid-year they went to a wraparound windshield on sedans and wagons, which IMHO actually took away from these cars.

berri

I always liked the look of that era Conestoga wagon. It was different, but cleanly styled with a sort of European influence. The 2 door may have been the sharper looker, but I kind of lean toward the 4dr personally.

uplanderguy

All Stude wagons were two-doors (well, '54-56) before the '57 model year when four-doors were added. They didn't make a factory station wagon before '54, hard as that is to believe.

berri

I didn't realize the 4dr didn't come out until 57. I wonder why? 4 dr wagons tended to way outsell 2 dr ones. I do like the 4dr Conestoga greenhouse. IIRC the 2dr D3 wagons tended to be strippers (well, except for the Nomad and Safari. Although in either 55, or I think 56 Ford came out with a one year better trimmed 2dr wagon called the Parklane or something like that I believe).

uplanderguy

Who knows; Studebaker was always a bit "out there"--a big part of their charm to me all these years later, LOL.

Ford's '56 luxo wagon was indeed the Parklane.

'56 Fords have long-been my favorite Fords since I can remember our neighbor's red and white Fairlane sedan with Thunderbird power--exhaust slots in the rear bumper.

isellhondas

I think on those Fords both the 292 and 312's both had Thunderbird decals on the valve covers. As a kid, I was impressed!

uplanderguy

They had the little "Thunderbird" emblem ahead of the front wheel openings, which always impressed me.

Similarly, I loved that my '63 Lark Daytona had the "Avanti Powered" badges on the front fenders, with 'Avanti' in the same script as was used on the car.

isellhondas

Oh, those Thunderbird fender emblems! I like them too!

A 283 Chevy would walk away from a 292 Ford or even a 312 and a 327 would leave them in the dust.

Still, I liked the sound of them and with today's motor oil they probably wouldn't get clogged up like they use to get!

fintail

I remember these on 62-64 Fords :

uplanderguy

Me, too. Back then, I thought the '65 restyle was an improvement, but it seems I saw more '64's, particularly, for a lot of years later. Too lazy to check, but not sure if the '64's outsold the '65's or not. I do think they seemed like pretty good cars.

We've discussed this before I think, but as close as the '66 Ford is to the '65 in styling, it looks somewhat "bulked up"--like a '65 on some steroids.

I read once that a magazine, I think, called the '65 Ford "the box the '65 Chevy came in", LOL.

isellhondas

fintail said:

I remember these on 62-64 Fords :

Yep, I remember then well! In 1962, the 406's came out and they were no slouch but a healthy GTO would whip one or a 409 Chevy. 390's were good engines but very heavy and not much in the quarter mile! Anyone ever pull an intake manifold off one of those?