Lincoln LS

karzz

Indeed, the S-Type steering wheel has the radio (volume, preset and tuning) controls on the left side as well as the voice activation button. The speed controls are on the right.

One interesting feature of the steering wheel controls is the "Select" button (I think similar to the LS "Media" button). This button not only scrolls thru the radio presets, but when held down for a second will switch from FM to AM, or vice versa. Very handy when momentarily switching to AM to listen to the traffic reports. Is this the same on the LS?

As for the windshield wiper pattern, I am not aware of any difference from the LS, mine sweep from the passenger side up toward the driver side, so they are parallel to the driver's side A-pillar when half way thru their sweep.

karzz

Lincoln continues to significantly improve in major areas of customer satisfaction in 2001. The latest JD Power results (October 1) again puts Lincoln in the top tier of manufacturers. Ford was the only manufacturer to have multiple brands in the top 10 (Lincoln, Volvo and Jaguar).

In August Lincoln beat out Mercedes and BMW by scoring #6 in the JD Powers Sales Satisfaction index. In July, Lincoln beat Mercedes and virtually tied BMW in the JD Power Customer Service Index (CSI) by being ranked #8.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/011001/dem038a_1.html

jond

I am the one who came out to my car to find my right rear window down, Car was locked and when I left it, the window was up. I do not know what to think as far as protection of items in the car if this can happen. How do I know when it is going to happen? In my case, I have not operated the rear windows in weeks and the rear doors had not been opened in several days before this happened. Car is at the dealers now to be repaired--dealer has been very good, not his fault. Car is 27 months old and has less than 22,000 miles on it. I live in Wisconsin so I do not think the problem is heat related.

What is the point in locking your car if the windows may fall down? Anyone else have this happen?

desertguy

I had a rear one fail as it was being lowered. It fell with a clunk and would not stay up so the dealer locked it in the up position while the part was on order. The day I was to take it in for window repair, I went to the parking lot and the opposite window was down. It just fell on its own. Fortunately they were both repaired that day. (this was prior to any newly designed part so they both have the old part. Lucky me!)

ezaircon4jc

The media button on the steering wheel will cycle through AM/FM1/FM2/CD(if present)/TAPE then back to AM. I believe that is the sequence.

nmandeville1

Everything is cover on my beautiful liminted edition of 200 for model year 2001! MY edition is 63 of 200 with a brass plate stated this on the Dash! I did not purchase my car with thinking of a higher resale value, I did so beause of the look! The car is totaly all black,with chrome wheels,air dams all around and every opition that their is and I got a very good deal at 38,000.00 with 0% financing,1 month free.ect. So far I am very happy with my purchase! But I am going to asked my dealer about the window problems!

leadfoot4

I'm glad to find that someone else besides myself feels that windows which don't stay closed are unsafe.
Also,I really don't want Joan Claybrook, or anyone else from that mindset dictating ANYTHING about my cars. I'm still smarting over what Ralph Nader said about the neat little Corvair I used to own.

akirby

I think it only cycles through tape if there is a tape present. I never use the tape player and it doesn't cycle to tape on mine. Just AM/FM1/FM2/CD. The rocker switch behind the media control cycles through the presets.

karzz

If you press and hold the media button for about a second, does it do anything different, like toggle between FM1 and AM1?

ezaircon4jc

My mistake. I meant to say "if present" for the tape also

I can only wonder what a spoiler will do to high speed stability after Jonathon explained that little lip at the rear of the trunk at Mania I. Also, those little "flaps" in front of the rear wheels. One doesn't see too many spoilers on MB's or BMW's which are high speed cruisers.

ezaircon4jc

No, the button just cycles through one way.

swauger

ezaircon4jc said:

"I can only wonder what a spoiler will do to high speed stability after Jonathon explained that little lip at the rear of the trunk at Mania I. Also, those little "flaps" in front of the rear wheels. One doesn't see too many spoilers on MB's or BMW's which are high speed cruisers."

Interesting comment, can you summarize what was said about the trunk lip and flaps in front of the rear wheels? I'd be interested to know what was said, and couldn't make Mania 1. :-(

I have to agree with you about stability. I was thinking of adding the rear spoiler to make the car look a bit more aggressive, but after a few high speed jaunts, one up to 130 mph, the car was so stable and unflappable at that speed I decided I didn't want to do anything that could even possibly screw up the aerodynamics of the car. It's just too well planted and stable at speed as is, which makes me believe a lot of aero work went into the exterior design.

As for problems, my LS is now about a year old, has 10K miles on it (I need to get out more!), and is a 2000 V8 Sport. So far no window drops, vibration or droning noises. I have had:

Hydraulic pump and motor for cooling fan replaced (about 1 week after purchase)
One headlamp replaced two weeks ago for fogging up.
Replace radio as it became defective after about 6 months.
Ball joint recall.
Transmission reflash.
Steering wheel had a gouge in the leather when I bought it that I didn't notice until after I got home, so they replaced the steering wheel.
Routine maintenance (oil, filters, etc.)

I very very rarely open the windows at all, here in FL it's either too hot or the allergens are too high (terrible if you have hay fever). Still, they may fall, but I haven't had any problems yet, keeping fingers crossed.

So, I am VERY happy with my car. That may change if long term reliability is not good, but for now I am a happy camper, and my car has been relatively trouble free. After a 5 hour drive to Savannah from Orlando, I got out of the car feeling very fresh, no seat induced paralysis or aches. Great seats, and a great open road car.

ezaircon4jc

Jonathon said that that little lip at the rear of the deck lid and the small flaps were there for high speed stability. I noticed on early build 2k models, those flaps aren't there. My 5/00 build has them. I also have a bar that looks like it connects the engine cradle to the "frame" on each side. LS1bmw0's early build doesn't have these either. It may be a V6 thing? Jonathon also said that even though we SHOULDN'T know it, the car is very stable at 140! Remember, the LS was originally intended for European sales. The car would need to stay planted at autoban speeds. As you've observed, the car just sticks like glue at high speeds!

airwolf1000

Over the past two week I have made two and my first two tests of the speed extremity type. I can concur it is extremely stable...

I should have paid more attention to the dynamics though. Moving at a blistering 0 Miles Per Hour the experience was exhilarating! Just Kidding guys. No Seriously, It moves nicely and with confidence.

Now which front Spoilers are we talking about here? Are we talking about the ones in front of the rear wheels.

Regards,

Airwolf1000

swauger

Thanks for the info on the aerodynamics of the LS. The type of tuning they did is the type that really seems to come from people who spend a lot of time in wind tunnels. If you notice, the Audi TT was somewhat unstable at high speeds because of the rounded rear, so they added a spoiler. Thing is the width of the trunk, sticks straight out level with the ground, and is maybe 2+ inches front to back. Very minimal, and was enough to correct the problem.

I checked my car, '00 LS V8 Sport, and it has the flaps in front of the rear tires. My build date is 06/00.

I've long ago decided not to mess up a good thing with aftermarket hang offs that never even saw a wind tunnel. Plus, why have a non-functional spoiler to irritate the cops? I'm glad I don't have the V8 logo for the same reason. Fortunately, I haven't been stopped by Officer Law in almost 15 years, when I got a ticket for doing 70 in a 55. Good thing he caught me on radar after I'd slowed down from 110! ;-)

In fact, my wife has a 2001 Miata, which is a great, very fun car. She was driving my LS back from a trip down the interstate, and looked down and suddenly was shocked to realize she was doing over a 100 mph. The car is so smooth, so quiet, and so stable she thought she was still doing 80. Of course, her "reference" (the Miata) sounds like it's going 100 at 45, which is bound to throw your calibrations off. The LS is definitely deceptively fast, it's so smooth and quiet it seems slow until you watch the speedo climb towards the peg.

glenns3

I haven't posted recently due to a busy August. 500+ post takes a long time to get through. I wanted to say despite my nagging quality problems, I am very happy with my 2000 v-6M. When I sell it for $200 after 300K miles I don't think I'll remember these irritating quality problems. I just turned 10K miles and am holding my car back from the dealer until I can read up on the TSB's to make sure my warranty items are fixed correctly. My problems are: fogging headlights,bad black paint on the B pillars, a shift boot that has separated from the tunnel, intermittent problems with the steering wheel controls and stereo staying on after I open my door. Nothing I can't live with considering I paid $28650 and have the convienince group, audiophile system with in dash 6 cd changer,moon roof,heated seats and sport package.
Questions: 1.Why doesn't Lincoln just inspect and or fix problems like the crashing windows (happened to me once, old part, one side only, fixed as soon as the dealer opened!)when they are doing free maintenance for those of you that have it? Most people would never know of the issue and just assume Lincoln quality is great. Don't spend the $$ to fix the problem if the windows look OK, but at least take 15 minutes to check while the car is in the shop anyway. While I'm on windows, to me the car is un-drivable if the window has crashed and the dealer owes me a loaner until it is either fixed, or pinned in the up position. In addition to theft and personal safety issues, what if it rains while your car is outside?
2. Has anyone considered painting the B pillars body color if they can't get the quality right on black finish? I think it would look better than the streaky black paint I have now.
3. Did they redesign the headlight assemblies or just put in a different one to appease me until I'm out of warranty?
4. My stearing wheel buttons and radio staying on are intermittent now. Has anyone's gotten to the point that the problem is consistent (diagnosable by the dealer)?
5. Give me some feedback as to whether or not I should look into retrofitting traction and stability control to my 2000 manual. In St. Louis we get a fair amount of snow, plus my heavy right foot is starting to cause slippage in the rain. I could do the snow tire thing, but that's big $$$ for rims and tires and doesn't help me during a summer down pour.
Thanks for all the valuable information I've read in these posts. As someone who is going to keep his car long term, this stuff has a big positive impact for me.

glenns3

Does anyone know of a good source of information for help in deciding if spoilers, cladding, air dams, etc. really help or are marketing cosmetic stuff? I tend to think in most cases they just add weight and drag, but I don't have any facts to back up my opinion. I like the clean lines of the regular LS over the LSE also.

ls1bmw0

We have a total of 50 people attending. Those of you who are attending, you will be receiving an email from me asking for your response as soon as possible for a few items. Please help me retain whatever little hair I have left and answer quickly.

Thanks,
Brian

mclement

I'm a new member to the board of LS Owners and have read all of the previous post leading up to this last message. Brian has done and outstanding job getting all of this information flowing to the users.

It is a well designed car with some errors in mfg and I'm sure Lincoln will get them addressed. I'm sure they don't want any negative issues with the vehicle that was car of the Year.

Having alot of experience Driving at high speed, in addition to testing aerodynamics on cars will teach you some important idea's regardless what type of vehicle you are driving.

From first hand experience, anytime I can keep air from getting under a car and creating a high pressure area under the front air dam is beneficial to the over all balance of the car. From Braking -- Turn in point -- to exit speed -- to straight away speed, the stability will be better.

And in the Rear of the vehicle if you can add more down force in the form of a spoiler or wing of any kind --- you will help stablizing or planting the rear of the vehicle in high speed handling and straight line speed.

This will affect a vehicle traveling as slow as 60 MPH and up.

So is the Body work a worth while investment?
It depends on the application the vehicle is going to be used for.

At least at speed, above 60 mph the lower body work and Front and rear spoiler will assist in your overall control of the vehicle.
For around town I don't think the body work is going to do anything but run into curbs and speed bumps. All though the body work doesn't look bad and has function to it.

I liked the car so much I went out and bought another one because I agree with a lot of the good comments made previously on this board. And I believe for the money it is the best value.

Morris

ls1bmw0

I just looked over on the JagTalk message board and noticed that there are several recent posts complaining about the same thing. Interestingly enough the posts are international, I think one was from Spain, all complaining about the same thing as the LS problem. Wonder if they have a longer or shorter wait for parts since the car is made in England or does the part come from here anyway?

scottc8

Is your car a very early build? One, or maybe two, other people have complained about fading or otherwise weathering finish on the pillars, but for most people it seems to be a non-issue. Mine (5/00) don't even look painted, almost like plastic, and after a year they look new. Real fingerprint collectors though.

Maybe there was an early change on how the pillars were finished. (???)

scottc8

As a long-time British car owner/enthusiast, I can say that, if I had a Jaguar with broken power windows, I would be so surprised that it wasn't a Lucas electric failure, it probably wouldn't bother me a bit.:)

slunar

Had the re-flash done last week, wanted to put some miles on my LS before commenting. In a nutshell it transforms the transmission from part of the car that makes itself known and a lot of times annoyingly so, to a part of the car that now works well enough that you barely notice its there. Fits my philosophy that something which works properly becomes almost invisible as it does its job. P-R & P-D5 engagements are now <1 sec,. D5 to R is 1 sec or so. 2-3 shift is still slower than I'd like but much better than before and all other shifts are near flawless. Probably psychological but the LS feels more responsive than before. If your're still reading this, well done Mark.

ezaircon4jc

The steering wheel radio control issue is the radio. I had the same thing happen to me. Come to think about it, the radio also stayed on once or twice after I opened the door. Once they replaced the radio, all is well! Not a problem with the steering wheel controls, radio staying on or the radio night illumination. Tell them to replace the radio!

karzz

I was down in San Diego today and found a nice flyer under my S-Type's wiper regarding the Lincoln LS Owners Club from the SoCal Chapter Director. Thanks Mike! The color flyer talks about the benefits of the club, the website, contacts at Lincoln etc. The flyer is a great idea.

It sure is a small world.

ls1bmw0

See what happens when Mike is off during the day! . I was rolling when I read your post karzz!

Some of the other chapter directors are also doing their own version of the flyers and doing "drive-by LLSOCings". Tom in NJ I think has tagged every LS within the range of his territory! And Art is doing the same in NY.

ezaircon4jc

You were at SoCal Tracon? I work here/there! I was wondering who owned that BEAUTIFUL blue S-Type! I work in the LA area, otherwise known as arrivals. Next time you're here, look me up! I hope that you can make it on Sunday to the Concours.

tom12253

Not every LS yet Brian, but I'm working on it. I have found myself making U-turns in order to follow an LS into a Mall or parking lot to talk with the owner. I get some strange looks till they put two and two together and realize I'm also in an LS. I have had some good conversations for the most part except for one older lady that hated the car and bent my ear for about twenty minutes. I wish I had more responses to the flyers, I'm wondering what percentage of LS owners converse on the Internet as we do. I have to say I had not thought of putting the flyers on the S-Type's, but now I will have to add a few lines welcoming there participation.

Tom

azlels

I just did 900 miles in a long weekend. Averaged 25 mpg. Car ran flawlessly. It is a loaded sport 2000 made early enough to have the Alpin audio system. This is a superb highway car! I have owned in order of recency before the LS a BMW 528; Mark 8; Q45; Audi v8. All fine cars. But the LS compares very favorably especially at the price. I have had now windows problems yet, and the tranny is smooth as glass and superior in many ways to the 528. The fake wood in the LS is just as good as the fake wood in the 528. All in all with 7000 miles I am pleased and impressed. Churchill Lincoln in Fort Worth has been great thus far.

leadfoot4

Although I haven't looked at JagTalk, I questioned the rear window scenario at Edmunds' S-Type board. Those folks claimed that they haven't been having the problem. Hmmmm...

mkovalsk

slunar,

Thanks for the kind words! You guys won't get rid of me THAT easily.

I'm glad you like the change. We were very pleased with the improvement it makes.

Mark

dac01ls

I have a 2001 V8 w/sport pkg that has 2500 miles on it. I don't remember this noise being there when I took delivery but its there now. It is very apparent with the windows up and the radio off between about 25 and 40 mph. It is best described as a 'rubbing' sound that increases frequency with speed and can no longer be heard above 45 or so as it fades off at higher speeds. The car does not shake, pull, or otherwise appear to have any other handling problems...just the noise, and it is quite annoying. My first thought was maybe bad rear wheel bearings. I'm going to bring it in to the shop but I thought I would see if anyone has heard of or seen this before.

ronniepooh

Hey Mark...I was wondering what your overall thoughts are on the use of CVT (Continuously Variable) transmissions now, and in the future. Do you think these types of transmissions have any future with high powered cars, or will it be limited to low power applications?

mkovalsk

Right now they are limited to low powered cars due to durability problems with the belts. Most auto companies are working on overcoming that limitation. I think that someone will succeed in the not too distant future. Then we will see CVTs (Continuosly Variable Transmission) in most cars.

It's different driving one of these cars and does take some getting used to. When accelerating the engine stays at a constant RPM as the vehicle accelerates. That way you can have the engine operate at max fuel efficiency for lower accelerations, and at maximum torque for best acceleration. It gives you the best that the powertrain can deliver, for whatever condition you are operating at. With a fixed number of ratios you usually have some amount of comprimise.

Mark

jhoffman61

Here is a link to an article on the partnership between Ford and UPS to improve the tracking of vehicles during the delivery process. It talks about how bad it was and what improvements have been made in the last year.

http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47_STO64309,00.html

ls1bmw0

Looks like they just noticed that the battery was in the trunk

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/longterm/articles/44682/page023.html

fantom

I had a similiar problem, dac01ls. It was a bad universal on my 01 V-6 Sport. Look up my post #3308 for more details, and good luck.

andyl2

I am looking for floor mats that are high quality and will not slip and will cover more floor area than the factory mats. Any suggestions?

andyl2

I have an extra hotel room reserved which I am going to cancel shortly. If anyone needs it, please send an email to me.

Also, if anyone is going alone to this event and wants to share a hotel room, please let me know.

My email is AndrewLobsenz@tx.slr.com

koury

And once again the first thing they criticize is the lack of internal storage space. Makes you wonder what their priorities are.

koury

Has anyone else had this experience? "Check Advancetrak" intermittently flashes on the message center (for long periods of time). I brought the car in to be checked out, the dealer said they had to re-program it. Went to pick it up, started the car, and the warning came back. Left it overnight, came back the next day, the service manager said the mechanic forgot to perform the last step in the re-programming sequence. Drove it home, 3 days later the "Check Advancetrak" warning is back on. So it's back at the dealer. And on the way there, a sharp grinding noise in the front of the car scared the pants off me. The dealer called me today, said they definitely heard the noise, thought it was the brakes, but after checking them they were like new (30K miles). I haven't heard back yet.

I have a feeling I'm alone on this one....

cwesley

Does anyone have the previously posted website for reasonably priced Ford parts?

ls1bmw0

www.fordpartsnetwork.com

lolaj42

It seems their fuel mileage has been gradually improving since they took delivery, getting a little better than 17 mpg on average. This still is lower than what I have gotten. I have slightly more than 20K miles, and I average between 19 and 20 mpg overall. Perhaps I do a little more highway miles than Edmunds. It's amazing that they haven't had the dreaded rear window failure, as that would be incredibly magnified (and rightfully so) by their editors. If the lack of internal storage space is Edmunds' biggest, and most enduring gripe, then it's really only nit-picking and personal preference that differentiates the LS from its competitors. Personally, the ride and handling is just as good, if not better than the comparably priced BMW 5 series (528/530), and better than the Audi A6, and Lexus GS300.

Anxiously waiting for a peek under the covers of the upcoming '03 MY LS and beyond at Mania 2! Way to go Lincoln!

scottc8

You'd think a person whose job it is to evaluate cars would read the owner's manual fairly early in the process. Or even look under the hood. The "missing" battery is usually the first thing someone notices.

pat

These are interesting comments a lot of you are posting - some of you may wish to Send a Letter to the Editors to express your viewpoints.

If you are interested in doing that, just be aware of the following information:

"Please note: "Letters to the Editor" become the property of Edmunds.com. They may be edited for length and/or clarity and may be published or republished in any format or medium and/or licensed to others for publication. If we publish your letter or e-mail, we may attribute it to you and may include your name and city, unless you expressly request that you remain anonymous. If you do not wish to have your letter or e-mail published, please do not send it to editor@edmunds.com." which means do not follow the link above.

Personally, I encourage all of you to go ahead and tell the editors what you think!

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

azlels

I just got the new Consumers magazine and was a little surprised to see the LS ranked 4th among a list of 9 luxury sedans. They ranked as follows:
1. BMW 530 at $46,300
2. E30 at $51,350
3. A6 quattro $45,600
4. LS V^ at $38,690
...
9. Jag S 3.0 $47,450

Their comments said it just didnt compare in many ways but reliability has increased enough to allow them to put a "recommended" label on it.

LS outranked the Lexus GS 300. Amazing.

glenns3

Yesterday my wife ran (in heels no less)and stopped my LS as it started down the drive way. She just happened to go back to the garage 5-10 minutes after parking the car when she saw it. I bet she remembers to leave it in first next time. I've had the same problem and believe my hand brake needs adjustment. Maybe this will prompt me to finally make that warranty appointment. It's a funny picture unless it's your wife chasing your car.

akirby

It won't do any good. Several of us have had direct email conversations with Wardlaw and the other editors. Most of the early complaints with the car (especially the transmission) were fixed with TSBs. When we told them there was an easy procedure that Mark had posted to train their transmission to shift better the reply was "we shouldn't have to do that". I personally gave Wardlaw the TSB number to have the transmission reprogrammed to correct the shifting complaints and told him to request it next time at the dealer. Instead of asking for it he 'tested' the service writer to see if he would recommend it on his own. He didn't, and we had to suffer several more months of complaints about a problem that could have easily been fixed had he simply mentioned the TSB number. It was fixed eventually. It just seems to most of us that they complain about things in the LS that are overlooked or forgiven in other cars (BMWs e.g.). I'm not implying that they're doing it on purpose. Another editor whose name I don't remember did not understand that the length of the stroke (how far the piston moves up and down inside the cylinder) was a factor in the overall displacement of the engine. (The question was why the LS was 3.9L and the S-type was 4.0L. The answer is that the LS has a 1 mm shorter stroke.) To put it in simpler terms it would be like saying that you don't understand how the height of a glass affects how much water it can hold. I don't expect every car owner to know that, but an automotive journalist should.

I'm not trying to put down the editors. We just don't think that their assessments are fair and objective and sometimes we question their car knowledge. But it's not just Edmunds. We've had similar encounters with other automotive journalists, like Joe Oldham from Popular Science.
And before you accuse this group of being hostile to anyone who says something bad about the LS, let me point out that we're talking about factual inaccuracies, not differences of opinion. They don't have to like the LS but they shouldn't mislead readers who assume that whatever is in the article is the truth when often times it isn't.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from sending a letter to the editor, and it was good to point out that option. I just wanted to point out that we've already tried that with little, if any, success.

I feel better now.......

akirby

In my previous post I used "we" several times. I did not necessarily intend to speak for the entire group so if you disagree with what I said feel free to say so.