From what I've observed, most of the jag owners don't seem to read Edmunds anymore and have migrated to Jagtalk. I think that's why you didn't get much response.
Today I had the opportunity to drive an LS8 with a build date of 4/99. All that I can say is "Wow!"
I had -no- idea there was such variation in these cars. My LS8 has a build date of 4/00 with half the mileage of the 4/99. You'd think mine would be tighter and more refined given the extra year Lincoln had to work out production glitches. Bzzt. Wrong. :-)
The 4/99 had three noteworthy differences between my 4/00: 1. Different turn signal stalk -- doesn't have that "break off in your hand" feeling. It's report is different, too. I liked it! 2. Transmission was smooth as glass. Kickdown was nearly instantaneous -- Amazing!! Mark, you did an fabulous job. Now why is mine so rough and klunky? :-) 3. The car was oh so tight. So tight that it felt like a different car. Handling was solid and sure. The brakes were dead on, aggressive, and quick to stop. Throttle response was intuitive and just right. Engine power was quick to deliver and completely ample. This car sang.
All in all, this 4/99 build LS8 is a solid competitor to the 5-Series. It's balanced, quick, agile, and tight. But my 4/00 build is not. The brakes do not have the tight and sure feeling that inspires confidence when you need it. Throttle response is slow, and a transmission that waffles and klunks on kickdown doesn't help deliver power on-demand. Except at WOT, my 4/00 feels slow in comparison -- it definitely wallows.
This car just felt so right, and I'm left to wonder why the heck mine feels so -wrong-.
Make no mistake -- the LS is an amazing machine. But, be watchful and test drive many before you buy. Without some serious road time, you may not have a chance to notice what separates a great LS from a "why-doesn't-mine-run-like-that" LS.
It seems that Lincoln turns out great examples of this machine as well as mediocre examples. Same plant, same model year, but vastly different output. I find this... fascinating, so I look forward to next week's trip to Wixom! :-)
I agree wholeheartedly with akirby. The plain jane, spartan interior is Teutonic efficiency. The interior of the 5-series is smaller. That's OK as the BMW is a drivers car. To me it is just the inconsistency. Also, just what was the 2001 change that made for more interior storage space? If it's just the move of the CD changer to the trunk, that should be an easy relocate job. That's where my dealer installed mine anyway. And rest assured, the battery is in the trunk for weight balance. As the review sorta pointed out, it is an old hot rodder "trick". I read this review as I read all reviews. I understand that there is inherent anti-American bias in the car review arena. Looking at the other boards here, there are plenty of problems with Japanese and German cars. Heck, The BMW boys are talking the tranny in the 540 won't last over 80-100k miles!
I'm wondering if L-M knows that an LS owner expects more than a Mystique owner. I've been both, and I'm not so sure.
My 2001 LS has been at the dealer since last Wednesday for a warranty repair. On Friday I asked for a loaner.
Now my wife just bought an Infiniti G20 for $10k less than the LS, and if she needs a loaner she gets an Infiniti.
The L-M dealer sends me to Enterprise and I find out they'll only pay for a Geo Metro. Yes, a Geo Metro, the car nine out of ten circus clowns drive. If I want more car--heck, if I want a real car--I pay for it.
Right now I can't afford to upgrade so until today I've been driving a $12k Geo Metro. Steering by Armstrong, seats that would make a good back hurt and noise-limited to 65 mph.
Today I decide I'm special--Lincoln told me so when I got the car--and I ask for either my car back or an upgrade. The service manager acts like I kicked his mother but I get an Altima--waahoo!!!
Am I missing something here? How does a $12k Metro fit in with the Waterford crystal and glossy magazine L-M sends me--not to mention the $32k cost of entry?
This loaner situation is sort of a sore point, I think. As I understand it, the daily allocation from Lincoln for a rental car is now $35. That is, if your Lincoln is in for overnight warranty repair, Lincoln allows thirty-five bucks to be applied to the rental. Surely a Metro doesn't cost that much! Sounds like there may be some hanky-panky going on.
The problem is that the warranty doesn't specify WHAT sort of transportation is provided. The warranty book says: "Alternate transportation in the form of shuttle service, service loaner, or a rental car allowance is available for warranty service under the Lincoln commitment program. Please consult with your dealership for details." It doesn't provide any more information than that, so it's up to the dealer to handle it.
My dealer told me that a loaner car would be available if my car is in for overnight service. Fortunately, I've had zero problems with my LS, so all my service visits have been for routine maintenance. My mom's '99 Town Car was in the shop for three days for a warranty repair and the dealer provided a new Focus for her to drive. She thought that was fine; it would be OK for me, too, as long as it wasn't for an extended period. I can see, however, where a Focus wouldn't be acceptable for folks who have different needs/uses for their vehicle. A Geo Metro, to me, really goes over the edge--that little tin can is not something I'd want to drive in traffic. As a point of reference, my local Lexus dealer has a fleet of Corollas for its customers to drive when their Lexi are under care. Probably doesn't set well with the owner of a new SC430...
To my mind there are only two alternatives. You either have to get the dealer to put in writing exactly what the policy is before you buy your car, or you buy the optional loaner-car coverage from Ford that gives you a specific category of loaner car for any and all service, even if it's only in the shop for a couple of hours. (I, of course, didn't do either of these things. )
In summary, caveat emptor. If it's not clearly spelled out in a signed document, then there ain't no guarantees.
As far as I'm concerned, "we" is fine, because I totally agree with everything you've said. These guys just don't seem to want to give free praise to the LS, no matter how good it is.
In every monthly writeup, there seems to be at least one back-handed compliment. This time, they're stunned that the battery is in the rear and don't appear able to comprehend the fact that it was put there SPECIFICALLY for performance reasons. It's as if they don't think anyone at Lincoln is capable of such an idea--pretty asinine, IMHO.
The other gem this month is "It's proof that very few cars are truly bad in today's world." Sounds like they're saying that if even LINCOLN can build an adequate car, then EVERYBODY must be capable of doing so. Good grief, fellas--are we dedicated LS owners supposed to see that as a complement? Sheesh.
On the other hand, at least they've finally quit carping about the tranny...:)
Bauer actually validates the LS value saying is it just a hop from a BMW or Acura, cars that are more expensive. Granted, for a Edmunds staff member, his lack of understanding about the battery in the rear just shows that he failed to inform himself of the cars features before commencing his test drive. I would expect that a reviewer would familiarize himself with the cars features before beginning the test. This would give them much better starting points for baselining as they tested the car. His lack of doing so causes me to loose confidence in his opinion.
The continual nit-picking on storage space is worthless verbage to me. They already voiced it in a few other posts, so why doesn't Edmunds spend more time on the review trying to assess other aspects of the car. Maybe giving the reviewers the oppty's to do some spirited driving, things beyond the normal day to day. This is where the car shines, but they don't have this as a focus on the tests, so all we get is opinion on the same stuff over and over again.
I'm close to making a decision to purchase a 2001 LS V6. Since I travel in New England, I'm curious if getting the Advance-Trac will help in snow and/or ice. The only reason I am asking is the fact that it is a rear wheel drive vehicle. Thanks
My wife and I ran our LS through a western New York winter last year. The only addition was a set of Dunlop Graspic snow tires all around. Stand on the gas on a slippery road, the advance trac kicks in, and you accelerate in a straight line while upsetting wife. For comparison purposes, switch off advance trac, and repeat above maneuver. Car slithers all over the road while trying to gain speed, wife gets REALLY upset....they don't call me Leadfoot for nothing !! In other words, yes, the advance trac works very well.
Yes, AdvanceTrac helps make the LS an excellent winter car. It's effective but unobtrusive. Don't be put off by the RWD. A heavy, powerful FWD car will do better going straight ahead in deep snow, but that's it's only advantage, in my experience. Steering, braking, overall handling of the LS on slick roads is equal or superior to any FWD cars I have driven.
Leadfoot wrote: "Stand on the gas on a slippery road, the advance trac kicks in, and you accelerate in a straight line while upsetting wife. For comparison purposes, switch off advance trac, and repeat above maneuver. Car slithers all over the road while trying to gain speed, "
Actually, this isnt so much the AdvanceTrac working, as it is the Traction Control portion of the Advance Trac. (Traction Control is standard on all of the LS's now, Advance Trac an option). The advance trac would give an advantage in a potential lateral skid situation, say accelerating too fast for conditions on a curve. But for straight line acceleration in low-traction conditions, standard traction control works the wonders. I personally see little need for Advance Trac/Skid control systems, except maybe in a case where you have to execute a quick lane-change emergency avoidance maneuver on a slippery road, then it could kick in and really save you from a skid. In that case, it could be worth its weight in gold. :-)
I read post 5153 with great interest since I have a 4/99 build LS V8. At the time, I assumed that I was taking a huge gamble with such an early model. In reality, though, after 36,000 miles, the car has been nearly flawless. I like the 3.58 gear and the neat sound of the turn signals, too!
I am certainly not saying the early build is "better" but I wonder if the assembly line was slower at that time resulting in a little better fit of some components - such as headlight assemblies, window post moldings, and some other trim items. Does anyone know?
My car came off the truck with 60 miles on the odometer. It had a sticker on the window saying that it had been the subject of a factory road-test and quality inspection prior to leaving Wixom. Do they still do that on some vehicles?
Thanks for the response. The Metro is $25 a day, so maybe the dealership pockets the difference--more than a little short-sighted if true.
I really didn't feel safe in the Metro, surprising since I used to drive an MGB, but in those days there were fewer Suburbans.
I probably would have enjoyed a Focus but it would have been useless for business--I use my car to take out clients. In fact, that's why I leased a prestige car instead of the loaner Altima I have now or some other perfectly adequate car. I'll bet many LS buyers use their car to bolster their business image, and that alone makes planting me in a Geo a dumb move on someone's part, whether it's L-M or my dealer.
But you're right, it's my fault. Next time I read the fine print.
I too have experienced the loaner car mishap. I purchased my car from a Ford/LM dealer and the service department was owned and run by the Ford contingent. The service there was by no means the best...I always felt like I was being treated like every other 'FORD' owner, not an LM owner. However they always provided me with a quality car, in fact most of the time I had an LS.
I moved to San Diego and get my car serviced at a Lincoln dealer and I get the routine $35 rental, which is whatever Hertz has available at the time. The service is better but there is a major difference in how the dealer treats his customers.
My dealership goes through Enterprise but they have a rule for Enterprise that states that a Lincoln owner must get at least the equivalent car that they purchased. I've even tried to get them to loan me a Taurus as opposed to a Continental or Caddy STS, but they won't do it.
Hello All, its been an eventful while since I have had time to gab with you all. Hope all is well with everyone.
Yesterday I got into my LS and rolled the windows down to let the heat out and when I rolled them back up the driverside-rear window went crashing down. I had the original mech. replaced last year when I had heard some weird noises coming from the passenger-rear window. Now my new mech. has crashed. Has anyone heard that the new mechs. are failing too?
I have a 2001 LS Auto,V-8 Sport and the driver's side and rear view mirrors vibrate terribly. The strange thing is that the passenger side rear view mirror doesn't even move a millimeter. Has anyone had the same problem? I have had the dealer replace the side view mirror and it still vibrates so badly that at highway speeds I can barely see out of it. Any suggetions?
My drivers side-side mirror also started vibrating a few months ago. Passenger side doesnt. If the car is off (or on) and I smack the drivers door panel with my hand, I can make the mirror shake easily. Smacking the passenger side door panel with the same or even more force, doesnt cause that mirror to shake at all. I plan to have mine examined during the next warranty visit.
Ford Motor's North American chief, Nick Scheele, openly admits the quality of Ford Motor Co. products are significantly worse than "GM" & "Daimler Chrysler" and "for the first time Toyota Motor Co. has a double digit lead in quality". "Some of the actions that we've taken in the past few years maybe distracted us and contributed to deterioration in quality". Now with this proclamation its time to review the "Mickey Mouse" suppliers of parts to FOMOCO, to get real and stop the nonsensible attempts to save a few pennies on parts that appear to fail repeatedly.
Will FOMOCO do this, I doubt it, they are already speaking about the big squeeze they are in and the loss of profit margins and deep slide in market share.
I just noticed my left side mirror vibrating today. I was playing my new Genesis/Phil Collins CD "Turn It On Again" and I think the track "Land of Confusion" set off the Polks in some kind of harmonic orgasm. The doors were also shaking. I'm sure the stock Philco whizzer cones would have blown out way before half the song was over.
I wrote previously about my driver side view mirror vibrating...forgot to mention that it vibrates when I don't have any music on at all. The passenger side mirror doesnt' move at all. What's up?
Have the same problem with my 2001 LS. The drivers side mirror will vibrate going over bumps while the only time the passenger side mirror will vibrate is if I crank the stereo up. Anybody go to the dealer about this yet???
Maybe the reason this seems to affect only the driver's side mirror is that it's caused by repeated closings which would occur much more frequently on the driver's side than the passenger side. That's the only reason I can think of for the driver's side to be different from the passenger side.
Got into the LS last night after the wife had it for several days and noticed the low fuel warning light on.
To make a long story short, I put 18.33 gallons in, which is not bad since I thought the tank capacity was 18.0 gallons. Outside temp was about 78 degrees F.
Anyone put in more than 18.33 at one time? I guess the fuel tank size is conservative
It could be that they are conservative, and it could be that it was really empty and the filler pipe holds a third of a gallon, but I would check that pump with what you know is a five gallon tank and see if that station has a pump problem. It happens. Not often, but it happens. I have never put in more than 14.5 gallons, but then I have run out of gas plenty of times in my misspent youth and do not want to repeat that so I usually go for the gas when I have 30 or 40 miles left on the computer. Even with less than 20 miles to go till empty, though, I never got near 18 gallons. I think this is fishy.
azlels, you mentioned that you just got your Consumers magazine ranking the LS 4th and indicating that the reliability had improved enough to be recommended. Are you referring to Consumer Reports?
I have gone over the 18 mark a few times, but again not by very much.
As far as the gas pump is concerned, most states require that the meter calibration is checked and certified annually. There should be a sticker on the pump with the date that it was last checked and by whom.
I think the most likely explanation for adding 18+ gallons of fuel is due to pump irregularities. The pumps SHOULD be accurate, but if they only get checked once a year, it's highly likely the flow meter is no longer calibrated correctly. This problem becomes VERY noticeable when filling the tank(s) on a large vehicle (like an RV). I've seen people put more than 70 gallons in an RV, when the capacity was only 60 gallons! Usually, a letter to the parent oil company with the fill-up receipt is all that's necessary to get a refund (particularly if you purchased with a oil company credit card). The larger the fuel capacity, the more evident this problem becomes.
As Bruno suggests, check those inspection dates on the fuel pump!
I regularly put over 18 gal. in my LS. After the pump first clicks off I can usually put 2 more gallons in. I estimate that the tank & filler pipe will hold 19+ gal. The 18+ gal fils have been done at >15 different stations, so I doubt that they are have high reading pumps. I have run my LS down to 0 miles to empty several times without running out. My 1996, 1997, 1998 & 1999 Taurus's had a listed fuel capacity of 16 gal. I regularly put in >20 gal. in all of them and did 21.1 gal. one time. Those Taurus's would take 4-5 more gallons after the pump first clicked off. I never top off a tank unless I am going to drive a fair distance after the fill to make sure that there is some expansion room after the car is parked.
I have a friend who used to work for a Ford supplier. He claims that back in the 80's while Ford was running their "Quality is Job 1" ad campaign Ford did a study to determine how much they could let quality slide and not have customers notice the drop. This appears to be the way American business operate these days. My ex employer hired a consultant to determine how much they could decrease service & support levels & quality and not have customers notice. The idea was to live off past reputation and make more money. Customers aren't as stupid as companies would think. My ex employer was ranked in their marketplace #1 in service & support for many years. It took less than 2 years after the pre-meditated lowering of service before it lost its long standing #1 ranking.
The earlier posts talking about advance trac and traction control failed to mention if those were auto or manual trans. cars. I doubt I can test the effectiveness of these features on a manual during a test drive (few manuals, even fewer salesmen who like skidding around in their new car). I can't believe it's that difficult to add one or both of these features to my 2000 which has neither. I plan on keeping the car for 10-20 years so I think I might have it long enough to get some value out of my investment, I just wonder how well it works. When shopping for my car I test drove a 3 series and didn't like how abruptly the engine management system cut power. Anyone ever drive a manual with traction control?
hey ezaircon - was that your silver frost LS with tinted windows in the SCT parking lot? Nice ride!
After getting your flyer I checked out the www.llsoc.com web site. I haven't surfed it in a while...impressive. Especially the Lincoln Synergy magazine.
I won't be able to make the Concours in San Juan Capistrano this weekend unfortunately, hope you guys have a great time.
It sure was, THANKS! Normally I park in the "pit stops" but, besides you being in one of the choice ones, I got "watered" there last week on a swing shift. I can't believe that the car didn't grow up to be a Town Car after the watering Next time you come down visit arrivals! BTW you weren't working on pFast, were you?
That program is in a different group. We're planning some telecommunications upgrades that will be transparent to you guys. I'll let you know next time I'm heading down and promise not to park in your spot!
Don't have a lot of experience with traction control in other cars, but the LS system is very effective. I've never experienced the total engine cutout people have mentioned with other cars. If I apply throttle while the car is standing on glare ice, the TC light on the dash flickers, the engine sort of hunts around for the right speed, and the car moves off smoothly. It does exactly what you would do yourself, "feather" the throttle, except perfectly every time. As for AdvanceTrac, I've only noticed it working three times; twice, while driving on ice-covered curves, the light flickered, but I didn't feel a thing and the car remained stable. On one other occasion, right after I got the car, I gave it too much gas cutting a left turn on a yellow light on wet asphalt. The rear end came out a little, but the car instantly straightened right out before I had a chance to do anything. Very effective, but not intrusive at all. BMW and Lexus systems apparently intervene later, but much more forcefully than Lincoln's, from what I've read. I've driven corners hard enough to mildly squeal all four tires without activating the AdvanceTrac.
BTW, my car is a V8 Sport automatic. Didn't change to snow tires last winter, but should mention that the stock Firehawks were virtually new as I bought the car last October.
As for the retrofit you mentioned, that could be a big job. Since you have ABS, there are already wheel sensors, but AdvanceTrac also uses a "steering input sensor" to monitor the driver's actions relative to the car's motion. Not to mention the electronics involved. If you're an LLSOC member, we have a Master Mechanic who advises us on our web site who may be able to help. If you're not a member, consider this an invitation.
I'm pretty sure that the owner's manual also warns against "Over Filling" the gas tank, too. I have never been able to get more than about $.25 in the tank after the first click... I usually try to hit a round number at that point and stop filling. I'm not sure what the consequences are for overfilling, but I'm not willing to find out, either!
I think it is also pretty hard on the fuel pump when you let the gas tank go empty.
I'm pretty sure that the tanks have a decent reserve amount. My other Continentals tend to "lie" to you about miles-to-empty to protect against running out completely.
I power washed my V6 again last week (spring/fall thing) You should have seen the bugs in the radiator!!
I think I had the pressure a little too high, as I took it for a ride after washing and it was missing for a little bit... check engine light came on... turned around and went home immediately. Let it sit.. drove a little more and ran fine, but light was still on. I made an appointment to have the computer checked, but the light went out on its own. (Canceled appt. - will have them check it during next window fix...)
I also noticed, before I washed it that it looked like fluid of some sort was leaking down and around the very front part of the aluminum oil "pan" (the part that sticks out) below the belt. I couldn't figure out what was the source. I didn't look bad, but still... any leak worries me!
*I have yet to get ANY loaner car from the Ford/Mercury dealer that I've had my car serviced for the window fixes and tranny reflash.
"He claims that back in the 80's while Ford was running their "Quality is Job 1" ad campaign Ford did a study to determine how much they could let quality slide and not have customers notice the drop."
I was in Ford's quality arena throughout the 80's, and I assure you that there is no truth to that statement.
It really angers me to see that statement in print. I encourage you to question future statements by your friend. His statemnet demonstrates profound ignorance of what was going on in Ford.
Inspired by your post, prior to my usual Saturday washing today, I removed the large plastic piece from above the radiator intending to hose the bugs off it. Not very good access, is there? I'd love to be able to get behind the radiator with the hose and blast the bugs out the front. I settled for hosing down from the top, in between the radiator and the A/C condenser (that's what the black radiator-looking unit in front is, right?) Didn't think I was accomplishing much till I saw the pile of dead bugs on the driveway after I moved the car. (Embarrassed to say, this is the first time I've done this in almost a year of ownership.)
What's your method? I was afraid of bending those fragile aluminum fins with water pressure, so I took it easy and probably didn't get it thoroughly clean.
drolds1, FOMOCO's upcoming North American operations turnaround plan due before the end of the year will reveal who will be instrumental in moving forward in vision and action in overcoming "quality" and other problems. I believe at this point "Jac" should step back and allow Scheele, known as the fix-it-guy within FOMOCO, to take the initiative in the reclamation of Ford North America.
Thanks for the input. I am a LLSOC member and I was planning on asking the master mechanic(s) for their thoughts. I need to order a shop manual and do some reading and see how the system works on the auto trans cars before I bother the pros. I'm sure I'll need their help sooner or later so I don't want to waste their time. When I see how the car does this winter without traction control, I have the financial resources to do the job, and I know if my wife will get a company car (Jan) will be the time to really get serious. If she gets a company car the LS will never see snow, but my curiosity is killing me.
I got my CR today and now I see what all the hub-bub is about. The Jag tied the BMW 530i at 52.5 mph in the "avoidance manuever" test, but was really slow at 8.7 sec in 0-60 despite the 240hp VVT engine. My guess the car was green and the rear ratio was 3:31 instead of 3:58. The 530i is now the "highest scoring vehicle we've ever tested", taking the crown from the MB E320. O-60 was 7.2 for the Bimmer, 7.4 for the MB, 7.5 for the Audi A6 2.7 Turbo. At $46,320 for the 530i, I feel my Manual 2000 LS at $32,800 was a bargain. And I bet it's 0-60 would be comparable, especially with air box mods and the Borla. CR says it prefers the S-type's less sexy, lower priced cousin. The Jag, and probably the LS Sport, would test the same, and in this test, was equal to the other cars in best braking performance and emergency handling. CR implies that the LS is really the best value, and my Manual has got to be a bargain. Interestingly, the Jag and LS are criticized for "pronounced road noise", but I can't hear any road noise over the Borla anyway. And speaking of the Borla, I was at In and Out Burger getting my 4 x 4 Burger tonight. As I was leaving, I was backing out of my parking space into the drive thru lane. My rear was almost touching the back of one of my favorite cars. You know, the Acura Integra that's low and slow, 4" chromed exhaust tip on a huge ugly universal muffler that rubs the ground, cut springs that make the driver bob up and down like one of those rear window hula dolls and force the driver to take concrete drainage troughs in supermarket parking lots real slow and at an angle. This guy was still on the learning curve as he still hadn't gotten his 30 series tires so he could still roll over cigarette butts without slowing down. But anyway, as he sat in the drive thru line reving his pathetic four banger, I reved the dual exhaust Borla right up his [non-permissible content removed] at about 6500. Restraning myself from just lighting them up in the parking lot, I did get that "what the hell is that" look again from the driver, who was undoubtably talking to his buddy about his new $75.00 blue headlight bulbs from K-Mart. I couldn't get too radical because the wife has been giving me a raz about the Borla and my "second childhood" already. But this is probably the most car fun a 53 year old real estate broker has the right to have. For you lucky youngsters with an LS, don't fail to have fun now. Or by the time you reach my age, you'll be in some mobile living room. Don't be afraid to get the Manual. By the time you are 53, they will be outlawed. Everything will be Hybrid with CVT trannys. By the way, the 530i uses a GM tranny as does the S80. Interesting.
In their initial test of the LS (in which they called it the best American sedan they'd ever tested), CR also mentioned that the road noise level was somewhat higher than other cars in it's class. So I guess they're at least consistent in one area.
Stanny, I got a kick out of your advice to "youngsters". My dad is 67 & retired, drives a Honda Odyssey that he purely loves. I'm 46, & when I bought the LS last year he told me that most guys wait till they're comfortably "set" before buying a Lincoln. I knew he was kidding, so replied, but what if, when I'm 60-something, my idea of a cool ride is a Honda van? I want my LS while I can fully enjoy it.:)
Comments
I had -no- idea there was such variation in these cars. My LS8 has a build date of 4/00 with half the mileage of the 4/99. You'd think mine would be tighter and more refined given the extra year Lincoln had to work out production glitches. Bzzt. Wrong. :-)
The 4/99 had three noteworthy differences between my 4/00:
1. Different turn signal stalk -- doesn't have that "break off in your hand" feeling. It's report is different, too. I liked it!
2. Transmission was smooth as glass. Kickdown was nearly instantaneous -- Amazing!! Mark, you did an fabulous job. Now why is mine so rough and klunky? :-)
3. The car was oh so tight. So tight that it felt like a different car. Handling was solid and sure. The brakes were dead on, aggressive, and quick to stop. Throttle response was intuitive and just right. Engine power was quick to deliver and completely ample. This car sang.
All in all, this 4/99 build LS8 is a solid competitor to the 5-Series. It's balanced, quick, agile, and tight. But my 4/00 build is not. The brakes do not have the tight and sure feeling that inspires confidence when you need it. Throttle response is slow, and a transmission that waffles and klunks on kickdown doesn't help deliver power on-demand. Except at WOT, my 4/00 feels slow in comparison -- it definitely wallows.
This car just felt so right, and I'm left to wonder why the heck mine feels so -wrong-.
Make no mistake -- the LS is an amazing machine. But, be watchful and test drive many before you buy. Without some serious road time, you may not have a chance to notice what separates a great LS from a "why-doesn't-mine-run-like-that" LS.
It seems that Lincoln turns out great examples of this machine as well as mediocre examples. Same plant, same model year, but vastly different output. I find this... fascinating, so I look forward to next week's trip to Wixom! :-)
My 2001 LS has been at the dealer since last Wednesday for a warranty repair. On Friday I asked for a loaner.
Now my wife just bought an Infiniti G20 for $10k less than the LS, and if she needs a loaner she gets an Infiniti.
The L-M dealer sends me to Enterprise and I find out they'll only pay for a Geo Metro. Yes, a Geo Metro, the car nine out of ten circus clowns drive. If I want more car--heck, if I want a real car--I pay for it.
Right now I can't afford to upgrade so until today I've been driving a $12k Geo Metro. Steering by Armstrong, seats that would make a good back hurt and noise-limited to 65 mph.
Today I decide I'm special--Lincoln told me so when I got the car--and I ask for either my car back or an upgrade. The service manager acts like I kicked his mother but I get an Altima--waahoo!!!
Am I missing something here? How does a $12k Metro fit in with the Waterford crystal and glossy magazine L-M sends me--not to mention the $32k cost of entry?
The problem is that the warranty doesn't specify WHAT sort of transportation is provided. The warranty book says: "Alternate transportation in the form of shuttle service, service loaner, or a rental car allowance is available for warranty service under the Lincoln commitment program. Please consult with your dealership for details." It doesn't provide any more information than that, so it's up to the dealer to handle it.
My dealer told me that a loaner car would be available if my car is in for overnight service. Fortunately, I've had zero problems with my LS, so all my service visits have been for routine maintenance. My mom's '99 Town Car was in the shop for three days for a warranty repair and the dealer provided a new Focus for her to drive. She thought that was fine; it would be OK for me, too, as long as it wasn't for an extended period. I can see, however, where a Focus wouldn't be acceptable for folks who have different needs/uses for their vehicle. A Geo Metro, to me, really goes over the edge--that little tin can is not something I'd want to drive in traffic. As a point of reference, my local Lexus dealer has a fleet of Corollas for its customers to drive when their Lexi are under care. Probably doesn't set well with the owner of a new SC430...
To my mind there are only two alternatives. You either have to get the dealer to put in writing exactly what the policy is before you buy your car, or you buy the optional loaner-car coverage from Ford that gives you a specific category of loaner car for any and all service, even if it's only in the shop for a couple of hours. (I, of course, didn't do either of these things.
In summary, caveat emptor. If it's not clearly spelled out in a signed document, then there ain't no guarantees.
In every monthly writeup, there seems to be at least one back-handed compliment. This time, they're stunned that the battery is in the rear and don't appear able to comprehend the fact that it was put there SPECIFICALLY for performance reasons. It's as if they don't think anyone at Lincoln is capable of such an idea--pretty asinine, IMHO.
The other gem this month is "It's proof that very few cars are truly bad in today's world." Sounds like they're saying that if even LINCOLN can build an adequate car, then EVERYBODY must be capable of doing so. Good grief, fellas--are we dedicated LS owners supposed to see that as a complement? Sheesh.
On the other hand, at least they've finally quit carping about the tranny...:)
The continual nit-picking on storage space is worthless verbage to me. They already voiced it in a few other posts, so why doesn't Edmunds spend more time on the review trying to assess other aspects of the car. Maybe giving the reviewers the oppty's to do some spirited driving, things beyond the normal day to day. This is where the car shines, but they don't have this as a focus on the tests, so all we get is opinion on the same stuff over and over again.
Just my opinion on the review.
Stand on the gas on a slippery road, the advance trac kicks in, and you accelerate in a straight line while upsetting wife. For comparison purposes, switch off advance trac, and repeat above maneuver. Car slithers all over the road while trying to gain speed, wife gets REALLY upset....they don't call me Leadfoot for nothing !!
In other words, yes, the advance trac works very well.
Congratulations; you're making a great choice.
"Stand on the gas on a slippery road, the advance trac kicks in, and you accelerate in a straight line while upsetting wife. For comparison purposes, switch off advance trac, and repeat above maneuver. Car slithers all over the road while trying to gain speed, "
Actually, this isnt so much the AdvanceTrac working, as it is the Traction Control portion of the Advance Trac. (Traction Control is standard on all of the LS's now, Advance Trac an option). The advance trac would give an advantage in a potential lateral skid situation, say accelerating too fast for conditions on a curve. But for straight line acceleration in low-traction conditions, standard traction control works the wonders. I personally see little need for Advance Trac/Skid control systems, except maybe in a case where you have to execute a quick lane-change emergency avoidance maneuver on a slippery road, then it could kick in and really save you from a skid. In that case, it could be worth its weight in gold. :-)
I am certainly not saying the early build is "better" but I wonder if the assembly line was slower at that time resulting in a little better fit of some components - such as headlight assemblies, window post moldings, and some other trim items. Does anyone know?
My car came off the truck with 60 miles on the odometer. It had a sticker on the window saying that it had been the subject of a factory road-test and quality inspection prior to leaving Wixom. Do they still do that on some vehicles?
Bruce
I really didn't feel safe in the Metro, surprising since I used to drive an MGB, but in those days there were fewer Suburbans.
I probably would have enjoyed a Focus but it would have been useless for business--I use my car to take out clients. In fact, that's why I leased a prestige car instead of the loaner Altima I have now or some other perfectly adequate car. I'll bet many LS buyers use their car to bolster their business image, and that alone makes planting me in a Geo a dumb move on someone's part, whether it's L-M or my dealer.
But you're right, it's my fault. Next time I read the fine print.
I moved to San Diego and get my car serviced at a Lincoln dealer and I get the routine $35 rental, which is whatever Hertz has available at the time. The service is better but there is a major difference in how the dealer treats his customers.
Pete
Mike
HA! The best I can get is a Taurus, That's their policy for Lincoln owners. They do have one or two LS loaners, but I don't know who gets them.
Last time, I got an Escort ZX2. It was take it or leave it, as it was the only car left. They deal with some fly-by-night local rental place.
Actually, I'm glad to get anything. Some folks have posted that they have to wait weeks for a loaner. The rental usually arrives in 5 to 10 minutes.
Of course, nothing beats the time I was waiting by the service desk when a woman called to ask if the loaner car had leather upholstery.
A certain number (and I don't know that number) of cars are road tested right off the line every day of production.
There are a few of those stickers that have my scrawl on 'em telling how many miles were accumulated in the evaluation.
Mark
Pete
Yesterday I got into my LS and rolled the windows down to let the heat out and when I rolled them back up the driverside-rear window went crashing down. I had the original mech. replaced last year when I had heard some weird noises coming from the passenger-rear window. Now my new mech. has crashed. Has anyone heard that the new mechs. are failing too?
Not a happy LS owner right now....
Doug
Will FOMOCO do this, I doubt it, they are already speaking about the big squeeze they are in and the loss of profit margins and deep slide in market share.
http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB1002143880816296120.html
To make a long story short, I put 18.33 gallons in, which is not bad since I thought the tank capacity was 18.0 gallons. Outside temp was about 78 degrees F.
Anyone put in more than 18.33 at one time? I guess the fuel tank size is conservative
As far as the gas pump is concerned, most states require that the meter calibration is checked and certified annually. There should be a sticker on the pump with the date that it was last checked and by whom.
Bruno
As Bruno suggests, check those inspection dates on the fuel pump!
I have a friend who used to work for a Ford supplier. He claims that back in the 80's while Ford was running their "Quality is Job 1" ad campaign Ford did a study to determine how much they could let quality slide and not have customers notice the drop. This appears to be the way American business operate these days. My ex employer hired a consultant to determine how much they could decrease service & support levels & quality and not have customers notice. The idea was to live off past reputation and make more money. Customers aren't as stupid as companies would think. My ex employer was ranked in their marketplace #1 in service & support for many years. It took less than 2 years after the pre-meditated lowering of service before it lost its long standing #1 ranking.
After getting your flyer I checked out the www.llsoc.com web site. I haven't surfed it in a while...impressive. Especially the Lincoln Synergy magazine.
I won't be able to make the Concours in San Juan Capistrano this weekend unfortunately, hope you guys have a great time.
2 notes of caution:
letting the fuel level get so low puts you at risk for pulling up the crud that settles to the bottom of the tank.
Topping off to the filler neck can force liquid gasoline into the purge canister. These are not cheap to replace.
Buckwheat- Re 5176-Do you think it's coincidental that Ford's slide in quality coincides with the tenure of "Jac the knife?"
BTW, my car is a V8 Sport automatic. Didn't change to snow tires last winter, but should mention that the stock Firehawks were virtually new as I bought the car last October.
As for the retrofit you mentioned, that could be a big job. Since you have ABS, there are already wheel sensors, but AdvanceTrac also uses a "steering input sensor" to monitor the driver's actions relative to the car's motion. Not to mention the electronics involved. If you're an LLSOC member, we have a Master Mechanic who advises us on our web site who may be able to help. If you're not a member, consider this an invitation.
I think it is also pretty hard on the fuel pump when you let the gas tank go empty.
I'm pretty sure that the tanks have a decent reserve amount. My other Continentals tend to "lie" to you about miles-to-empty to protect against running out completely.
I think I had the pressure a little too high, as I took it for a ride after washing and it was missing for a little bit... check engine light came on... turned around and went home immediately. Let it sit.. drove a little more and ran fine, but light was still on. I made an appointment to have the computer checked, but the light went out on its own. (Canceled appt. - will have them check it during next window fix...)
I also noticed, before I washed it that it looked like fluid of some sort was leaking down and around the very front part of the aluminum oil "pan" (the part that sticks out) below the belt. I couldn't figure out what was the source. I didn't look bad, but still... any leak worries me!
*I have yet to get ANY loaner car from the Ford/Mercury dealer that I've had my car serviced for the window fixes and tranny reflash.
"He claims that back in the 80's while Ford was running their "Quality is Job 1" ad campaign Ford did a study to determine how much they could let quality slide and not have customers notice the drop."
I was in Ford's quality arena throughout the 80's, and I assure you that there is no truth to that statement.
It really angers me to see that statement in print. I encourage you to question future statements by your friend. His statemnet demonstrates profound ignorance of what was going on in Ford.
What's your method? I was afraid of bending those fragile aluminum fins with water pressure, so I took it easy and probably didn't get it thoroughly clean.
http://www.autonewsinternational.com/stories/scheele1001.htm
CR says it prefers the S-type's less sexy, lower priced cousin. The Jag, and probably the LS Sport, would test the same, and in this test, was equal to the other cars in best braking performance and emergency handling. CR implies that the LS is really the best value, and my Manual has got to be a bargain. Interestingly, the Jag and LS are criticized for "pronounced road noise", but I can't hear any road noise over the Borla anyway. And speaking of the Borla, I was at In and Out Burger getting my 4 x 4 Burger tonight. As I was leaving, I was backing out of my parking space into the drive thru lane. My rear was almost touching the back of one of my favorite cars. You know, the Acura Integra that's low and slow, 4" chromed exhaust tip on a huge ugly universal muffler that rubs the ground, cut springs that make the driver bob up and down like one of those rear window hula dolls and force the driver to take concrete drainage troughs in supermarket parking lots real slow and at an angle. This guy was still on the learning curve as he still hadn't gotten his 30 series tires so he could still roll over cigarette butts without slowing down. But anyway, as he sat in the drive thru line reving his pathetic four banger, I reved the dual exhaust Borla right up his [non-permissible content removed] at about 6500. Restraning myself from just lighting them up in the parking lot, I did get that "what the hell is that" look again from the driver, who was undoubtably talking to his buddy about his new
$75.00 blue headlight bulbs from K-Mart. I couldn't get too radical because the wife has been giving me a raz about the Borla and my "second childhood" already. But this is probably the most car fun a 53 year old real estate broker has the right to have.
For you lucky youngsters with an LS, don't fail to have fun now. Or by the time you reach my age, you'll be in some mobile living room. Don't be afraid to get the Manual. By the time you are 53, they will be outlawed. Everything will be Hybrid with CVT trannys.
By the way, the 530i uses a GM tranny as does the S80. Interesting.
Stanny, I got a kick out of your advice to "youngsters". My dad is 67 & retired, drives a Honda Odyssey that he purely loves. I'm 46, & when I bought the LS last year he told me that most guys wait till they're comfortably "set" before buying a Lincoln. I knew he was kidding, so replied, but what if, when I'm 60-something, my idea of a cool ride is a Honda van? I want my LS while I can fully enjoy it.:)