Has anyone driven the LS in snow? We had a big storm today (16") but I drove my '96 Explorer XLT V8 AWD. I'm glad I kept that brick for emergencies! I was wondering how the LS would handle 3-4 inches of snow.
The hours at my local Ford dealer, where I got my SHO serviced, were great. 7 am to midnight M-Th, till 9 pm on Fri, and 8-6 on Sun. Better than my Lincoln dealers hours. The service, however, was another story. Everytime I took something in they broke almost as many things as they fixed. They kept my SHO for 37 days trying to 1) decide whether or not to rebuild or put a new rebuilt tranny in it, 2) realizing that there were no rebuilt ones available, and 3) finally getting the parts to rebuild it. This was the 4th AX4S (think that's right) auto tranny my SHO had gone thru in a little over 6 years, and I wasn't hard on the car. The last tranny to fail was a factory rebuilt unit that lasted about 3Kmiles/3 months before it suffered a catastrophic failure with no warning, which was the way they usually went. I think the dealer didn't flush all the metal parts out of the tranny coolers and lines. After 37 days they returned it to me an absolute mess,looked like it had run the Paris/Dakar rally,covered with grime. The only good thing was my service writer, he is an example of exactly the type of employee Ford should be hiring, helpful, honest, and helped me fight Ford and the Dealer to get half thecost of the last transmission refunded to me.
Other than that, the service was fine.
So far the Lincoln Merc dealer I've used is doing pretty well on service. If I have an appt, I get a Mercury Grand Marquis or an LS, if I have an emergency service I get an Enterprise rental. There was a week delay for parts for my failed cooling fan, but that wasn't the dealers fault, I had a car for a week to drive, and they have done very well. Only thing they don't do is wash the car, it's an older dealer and I think they just don't have room for an auto-wash or the initiative to pay people to wash customer cars. But they've always been prompt, did the work correctly the first time, and called within a couple of days of each service to check to see if it was OK. When it wasn't (only once) they immediately had me bring the car back and arranged another loaner and promptly fixed the problem.
So, so far at least, LM is far ahead of Ford in service. Hope it continues. Central Florida Lincoln/Mercury claims to be the oldest Lincoln dealer in the States, though I don't know if that's true or not. Bought a V8 Capri from them in '85 and they were good then too.
The 2/5/01 edition of Automotive News has a picture of a model of the new Premier Automotive Group dealership breaking ground this week in Scottsdale. It is a crescent-shaped building with separate entrances for Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo and Lincoln (no Mercury present). It looks like Aston Martin might be there too, but can't tell for sure.
In back is a 1/4 mile test track as well as an off road track for Land Rover. Each showroom will be staffed by separate, dedicated sales staff, service reception and service technicians.
I purchased my LS/v8 on-sport in 7-13-99 for all of the reasons stated by loyal as owners on this board. I truly loved the car, however the dealers in Florida have turned the love to disgust. No matter how good the car is, bad service will discount and eventually obliterate the positives. In the 19 months of ownership I have never had a service which did not require a second visit to correct the problem. I had to have a fuel tank replaced after a recall for a fuel hose replacement.-15 gallons of gas under the car, fire department had to be called for clean up- I never found out for sure but I think it was a ham fisted mechanic, took them a week to fix it and a month to get rid of the gas smell. Two more trips to replace the headlight assembly which filled with water, and several trips to get a good alignment. Today was the last straw, It went in last week for the ball joint recall and oil change and to repair the seatcover which had cracks and the finish coming off. They only "repaired" the seat by redying it. There was also a small spot of rust on the rear quarter panel coming up from underneath the paint.-looked like there was a small piece of foreign material under paint. The car was returned to me with the rear quarter badly repainted, a shade darker than the rest of the car, over spray all over the car, and obviously not a clear coat applied. The price discounts and poor resale value of the LS is not due to the car, but to dealers who really don't want to sell the car or deal with discriminating buyers. They want to sell the big boats to loyal seniors. If anyone has an address for complaints it would be appreciated. Don't know what car is next but the LS days are numbered.
garthman --- on your post #593: I appreciate the long list of statements you made about the Automobile Club of Southern CA and their claim coverage practices. I can't say that I have the depth of your knowledge; despite 25 years of being insured by them, the last claim I had was over 10 years ago ... that should answer your question about how well I like to treat my cars - especially the LS!
Please tell us a little more about the basis for making the statements you made about the AAA. Are your statements based on personal experience where they repaired you car with used parts? Do others have similar experiences? Was this reported anywhere else and verified? Is it printed somewhere in their insurance policy declaration?
Please don't take offense, but your statements are serious enough to warrant serious inquiry. My experience so many years ago with the AAA on about 3 different occasions was very good, the claims were handled with great ease and friendliness, and they didn't use old parts in the repairs. Can you offer further evidence on how they may have changed over the years?
Read your Policy declarations carefully. I switched to Kemper because of the language about used parts in their policy that were sent out with last years AAA renewal.
Kemper will replace your car with a new one if you wreck it in the first year and only uses new factory parts.
Hector: I have driven my LS in snow ranging from 2" to 10" at a time. Suffice to say that anything over the 3-4" amount will present a problem to you until the streets are plowed. But that is the case with any car with lower profile and limited tire clearance in the wheel wells.
The traction on ice and small amounts of snow under 4" is fine on flat surfaces. If you have any hills to contend with, you will have a problem with traction with the Firestones, probably would have to put on Blizzaks. I drive with the SST in 2nd and 3rd to keep wheel spin at a minimum. In the real deep stuff, I had to turn off T/C because I would just sit there with no wheel engagement at all!
My other car is a 99 Suburban, so the LS usually sits in the garage during the snow storms until the plows have been out. Maybe Albert or Giowa can share their snow experiences also. Second thought, maybe Albert shouldn't.
Todd, who is already apologizing for the cheap shot to our Canadian friend.
Was this the only dealer you've used? You should try different dealers. If you're having a specific problem that you can't get fixed or you're having problems with a specific dealer you can contact Jim Rogers at jroger19@ford.com . He's the general marketing manager for Lincoln and he participates in this forum. Bad service is definitely a problem and Lincoln is trying to fix it but they're definitely hamstrung by the franchise laws.
As to price discounts and poor resale I don't necessarily agree. I haven't seen any incentives on current LS models, only on old 2000 models. They're selling all they can build. By contrast Town Cars and Continentals have holdbacks and rebates galore and routinely sell for several thousand under invoice because of that. Resale values for LS seem to be slightly above average but less than Mercedes, etc. Remember you have to compare residual values against selling price, not sticker price. The LS routinely sells for a couple thousand under MSRP whereas some of the other 'premium' brands sell closer to MSRP. But I do agree that having a better dealer service experience can only increase demand.
I posted, a while back, the same condition that you reported and also the method to start (flooring the throttle). In my previous post, I made reference to what my friend (Service Manager of my current dealership) had told me. Basically, it's a cold-start procedure in which the cylinder is flooded with fuel. For some reason this causes compression loss and that contributes to the strange sound heard when first cranking the motor. Flooring it does the old flooded carburetor thing which results in starting the engine, but with a very rich fuel odour. He says that this is a common problem with other Ford products and is not considered to be something that is wrong. I think that it has to do with dramatic climate change (ie: very cold, dry Saturday evening, park the car, wake up Sunday morning and the temp is much warmer and humid)
LS and Snow (amengual):
The LS is a well balanced car, but the stock Firestones that were on my car are awful in the snow. That reason made me put Blizzak MZ-01's on the car. I've owned other Blizzak tires (WS-15), but never the MZ-01's. These are supposed to be for performance cars. They come in low-profile 17" sizes. Unfortunately they are made for ice and light snow. Most years that would be terrific up here in Southern Ontario, but we've been dumped on this year. I would not buy these tires again. I spun my car out before going to LS Mania in January and caused $2300CDN damage to the passenger side foglight area. I have been banging my head trying to figure out why the car spun as I was going straight ahead at the time I lost it on a road with 4-5" of snow/slush covering it. I am a capable driver as I have had performance training and even spent 2 years racing a 94 Z28 in SOLO1 and SOLO2. Without getting into it too much, I have come to the conclusion that the wide center groove on the MZ-01's (much like an Aquatread groove) may have caught an edge. I have noticed that these tires tend to follow ridges in the road surface, whether it is the edge of the road or frozen snow that could be left by the ridge a dual-wheel type of vehicle would leave (ie: tractor-trailer or 1-ton pickup). It sort of feels like being caught in the rail tracks that are laid down for street cars. I think the car is great, but choose your snow tires carefully. Do NOT compromise your snow traction because you want the car to handle the dry stuff like your Firestones handle in the summer. When buying snows, get the ones that will work best in deep snow. If I could do it again, I would try my damnnest to find 16" rims and install the Blizzak WS-15's.
Dealer Service:
As I think I started this last tirade on dealer service, I think it's time for me to reply to a few things. First, I appreciate the support that many have offered. Next, I also appreciate jjfrye's comments and can say that I approach lists, whether good or bad, with a grain of salt. I understand that many things can be said/written hastily. As my friend is the Service Manager of this dealership, I am sure that I can [non-permissible content removed] about it to him - and I do, a little. I, however, do not want to bring the friendship between us into a business forum, vehicle ownership just isn't worth a friendship that has been around for quite some time. My comments about poor service not only reflect my experiences, but also comments I've heard from others. I have yet to speak with someone in Ontario that is happy with Ford service. I have spoken with many that are as frustrated as I, however.
Vehicle Discounts:
Anyone that doesn't think Lincoln is building a profit into the price of the vehicle is missing something. The 'Committment' is a value added feature that every purchaser of a Lincoln is paying for. Those nice Waterford glasses are also paid for in the purchase price of the car. You may think you are getting a good deal by paying invoice or a little above, but I'm sure Lincoln (or any other manufacturer) is placing a safety margin into every vehicle's price. Big business does favours for no one.
Because the weatherman had predicted a horrible winter for us here in western New York, I put on snow tires for my wife's peace of mind. I bought Dunlop DS-1's, and put them on the OE 16" rims. So far, the snow traction has been good, but the mountains of snow has missed us here in the metropolitan Rochester area. We've gotten 4"-5" at a time, on a couple occasions, but never more that that. Under those circumstances, the car has been OK. Not that I've had any cause for concern, but my old self would still be happier if a limited slip diff was in the back of the car. Yes, I'll put on the Nomex and goggles, and await the blast......... One comment in closing, about Albert's mention of new vehicle pricing. I too, am more than sure that they build in quite a safety margin for themselves. The company that I work for has probably 300-400 Ford trucks in their fleet. I've worked here for 30 years, and just found out that we employees can get in on the fleet purchase pricing of Ford vehicles. Not to get anyone overly upset, but I bought my LS at a "no quibble" price of $200 under invoice.
Has anyone started getting intermittent idle when engaged in drive only in cold weather? I just had the latest Jan 5.2001 re flash of the CM (same code I guess that is used on the 2001 LS-8 cars) and the car is doing it now more often. At first I thought it was fuel pressure related or maybe water in the fuel, but as soon as I took the cranny from drive to neutral the skipping was gone. Now I think it is the CM software and all those sensors. Anyone had a similar problem, and if so what was the solution? Thank you1
I suggest you take it back to your dealer. There's something wrong, but it probably is not the software. This is the same software that is in all the 2001 cars.
I would appreciate Tom Marks calling me or emailing me to discuss his service problem. Phone is 949-788-2316; email is jroger19@ford.com. As some of you know I am the VP Marketing of Lincoln Mercury and would like to assist those who have had problems such as the one posted by Tom.
I consider a good deal to be at or below the average selling price of the vehicle. For the LS I think that's a few hundred over invoice right now. If dealers were selling LS' for $500 over MSRP all day long then I would consider MSRP to be a good deal under those circumstances. It's all relative. I don't care how much the factory makes on the vehicle. The factory cost is fixed so you can only negotiate on the amount of dealer profit. You can't negotiate with the factory. All you can do is wait for rebates or incentives or shop somewhere else.
My special order AS V6 5 Speed Manual, Pearl Blue with sun roof, Conv. package and heated seats is in. It was expected on 2/19, but it made it early. The best part of it, I am 35 Miles away from the dealer, so I am having a nice drive home. Who said that one can't have fun!!!
I agree with you as far as not being able to negotiate with the factory, however, I feel that you can negotiate with a dealer beyond the dollar value of a car. When I bought my Camaro, the sales guy and I were $200 away from a deal. I wasn't spending more and he wasn't coming down any more than he already did. I asked the sales guy what his service department was like and he told me what I expect a sales guy to say. I took a hard look at the car and price, and I decided to take him on his word regarding the service. As everyone here knows, I got lucky on that deal and happened to get a dealership that treated me fairly.
As far as what constitues a good deal, that is way too personal a thing to try to answer in this forum. To some, a 1-carat diamond ring is worth $1000 (just an example - I know nothing about gems), yet I wouldn't give you a dime for the same rock. Rolex, Casio, Mercedes, Kia, Krell, Lloyds, etc. would not co-exist if people didn't place value on items differently. I've spent loads of money on audio equipment, yet I know people that are perfectly fine with an all-in-one boombox that cost a quarter of what I've spent on speaker stands.
If I bought a Lincoln LS for $10,000, yet it was in the shop 50% of the time and I also had a Hyundai Pony that cost me $20,000, yet ran perfectly all the time, which would be the 'deal' in the end?
In summary, there are other items you can negotiate on when buying a car. The final price is just one aspect of the deal that is, right from the start, in the dealership's favour.
Have enjoyed a couple nice snow storms this season and supposed to be one here tomorrow. I have to concur with christoffer1, akrus, and leadfoot4 above.
I live in a nice hilly part of town. I tend to look for ways to get around that involve going down hill or on level surface. I haven't been overly impressed with the winter performance of the Firestones on my '00 LS8 Sport. I'm too cheap to buy a set of winter tires. I had a set of Blizzaks on my former '97 Camaro. I wasn't overly impressed and they just seemed to ride "odd" whenever the road surface was clear.
You want truly wretched winter performance, try to drive my '96 Impala SS. I can't hardly get her out of my flat driveway if there is even minimal accumulation. I keep her garaged during winter and had the unfortunate need one time to have to drive her in snow. Not fun.
Thanks Mark, I will do another visit to my dealer. What is unique about the skipping is that it happens only under load when the tranny is in gear and brake pedal pushed down. If you take it out of gear into neutral the idle is smooth. The other interesting item is that when the gas tank is full it does it less often. I figured that water in the fuel or partially blocked injector can't be the problem since the neutral idle is smooth. Also no check engine light trouble code is picked up by the PCM. Also if sensor like TPS, EPT or Fuel Rail pressure transducer where faulty or intermittent, my guess is that the smooth idle in neutral would not be there. I do not like to pick on the tranny and all those shaft speed sensors (like TSS or OSS), but I do hope that my dealer can fix it. I hate driving a 40K car with hiccups when waiting for a light to change at every intersection while in gear! Do you have any clues that I could pass to the dealer mechanic on this problem? As an engineer myself I know that hardware and software problems are always closely related to each other and there must be many lines of code that run in the PCM that are dependant on all those sensors! Thanks again.
My previous post a couple of hours ago went into the bit bucket, so I'll try again.
I misunderstood your post. I totally agree that all the little bells and whistles are built into the price of the car and the buyer must ultimately pay for it. It's all overhead.
Reminds me of my college days at a furniture store. We charged $25 for delivery because we didn't add it to the cost of the furniture. That way if you don't want delivery you don't pay for it. The chain stores had 'free' delivery. We saved a lady several hundred dollars compared to the chain store on a bedroom suite. When we told her delivery was $25 extra she got angry, claiming that the chain store delivered for free. When the mgr offered to give her back her check so she could go back to the chain store she changed her tune. I used to ask people like her whether they thought the chain stores had to pay for the truck, gas and people to deliver furniture or did they get it for free? Of course they said that they paid for it. At which point I would say "Then how can it be free?". Some got it, some didn't. TANSTAAFL. And the store mgr could spot these people as soon as he waited on them. He would call me over and ask me to go check the parking lot and see if these folks were driving a Volvo (this was the mid 80s mind you). He was right at least 80% of the time!! (zip...zip....goggles on)
This is a thank you to Mr.. Roger. When all was bleak with my problem your office stepped in and resolved the situation.. It is a treat to have the privilege to deal with a company that walks the walk. ... If Mr. R. is on the team it makes up for a lot of marginal dealers, etc. It's a great car, the LS, and it becomes better with this kind of support. The problem took time but in the end , with a little "COOL", it all worked out and I am happy. KUDOS To Mr. R. and his team.
Was glad to read that the Edmunds test LS had the "buzz" in the stereo speakers. My 2000 V6 LS w/ Audiophile system developed a buzz that sounded like a gardner's leaf blower. It got louder with acceleration. Unlike your test LS, mine would buzz whether I had the radio (AM or FM) or the CD on. I've had it to the dealer 4 times for the problem. Each time I was given a free loan car and they fixed a "ground wire". When it happened the 4th time, I was going to switch to another dealer for service, but couldn't find a local one who had heard of the problem. The dealer I purchased from is 45 minutes from home (no direct freeway access; only a crowded surface street), so when I contacted the service manager, he offered to come to work, pick up my car, and return it to me when fixed. Even arranged for a local car rental place to pick me up and give me a rental car (I decided I really didn't need the rental car, since they were going to have my car done by the end of the work day). So far, the fix seems to have worked; no more "buzz". Other than that, I love my LS. I find myself completely satisfied with the comfort (both front and back). With my driving habits, the V6 has just the right amount of power. The cornering can't be beat! If I could change anything, I'd have more inside storage; but hey, who needs all that junk in the car anyway?!
Do it yourselfers, beware. For everyone changing their own oil in their LS versus taking it to the dealer, I want to point out a study on oil filters and share a story.
My 99 Suburban would tick in the mornings for 5-10 seconds after sitting all night (you know, ticktickticktick). I thought I was having major valve problems that would cost hundreds of bucks to locate and fix. Then I ran across this study and decided to change the oil filter from the Valvoline Quick Lube's to a Purolator Pure One (cost $5.99). Apparently, the Purolator, as well as Mobil1 ($10) and some other premium filters have a superior "anti-drainback valve" that prevents the oil that has passed through the filter from draining back to the oil pan.
It sounded like a hoax, but for $6, worth a try. Of course, I had to wait until this morning to test the results of the swap. When I fired up the beast this morning, viola, no more ticky ticky!
The moral of the story is do not skimp on the oil filter when you change oil. I don't know who manufactures the filters for FLM when the dealer does the service for you, but I would discourage anyone from using Fram's or from discount quicklube centers unless you take your own filter with you.
Well, I've pre registered, ordered my magnetics from PROTAPE, already read 1/2 of Henry Watts' SECRETS OF SOLO RACING, read the Novice handbook, am already LOOKING AHEAD. I've practiced both shifty-hand and Zaconne. I've visualized from very early to very late apex. My helmet fits and it's only Wednesday! What else is there to do but come to the board? With access to a shop, Is there any tweaking you could/should do to the steering or under the hood to make it optimum for the track vs the street, without ruining the fine tune it has now, (for the street)?
Hope you are doing well. Just writing to let you know I went into the dealership and got the old line ' Oh you have the latest software on your car!" I get a reverse hesitation of about 3 sec's, enough to have caused a concern at least a few times when cars were coming at me. The Dealership said they don't all get the TSB, and they would have to Download it via Satellite and had to link up their computer. Man I am all of a sudden preparing for Launch with NASA!
My question is how can they get the TSB. They are an excellent service dealership and this is the first time they failed me. They are Village Lincoln Mercury of Irving. Can you get them the Software or let me know what to tell them so they can get it in a quicker fashion.
MONEY Magazine for March lists resale value estimates for cars after five years. LS V6 Auto is 37%, V8 is 38%. No stick listed. Here are some others to compare to the LS: Catera is 33%, Continental is 25% (sheesh!); BMW 540 is 43%. Jaguar S-type is same as LS: 37 & 38%.
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Well, I think I'm finally done "improving" my LS. The dealer chromed my factory wheels when I got the car and installed the wood wheel & shift knob free after the fact. I have installed splash guards, tailored sheepskins(leather is terrible in this climate), K & N filter, medium tint on all windows, Magnaflow mufflers and yesterday a wood dash kit from exotic wood dash. Really looks great and like it came from the factory. I am happy with the audiofile system that came with the car. The only thing I wish I had (no not a V8) would be the sunroof. I doubt I'll go after market for it. I did it once with a brand new Audi and it kinda makes your heart pound when you watch them rip into the roof of your new car with a sabre saw.
Ditto on the inventory plus the BRA...desertguy, I guess you let yours hang out ..huh? I had a lovebug problem here in South Louisiana and didn't want to deal with the smashed bugs on my front end everyday. I get the wood trim this week, I have the sunroof and wind deflector, all on the ivory/parchment. I'm tempted to put on the SCCA or LLSOC decals, but I'll use magnetics at the SOLO.
I would be happy to but being somewhat keyboard challenged with no scanner or digital camera it would be difficult. Stanny1 had a great camera at LS Mania and some of the results are posted on the LLSOC site. Guess I need to invest in one of these filmless beauties.
If anyone would like to post a picture of their "baby" on LLSOC and don't have access to a scanner or digital camera send a decent print copy to the LLSOC National Office, Attn: Brian Gowing, listed under Chapters on www.llsoc.com. Please include a self-addressed stamped envelope if you would like the picture returned.
I will scan it in and post it on the new "Brag Board" that will debut in a couple of weeks. This also applies to anyone who wants to post their pic on LLSOC. Email me the picture and I will post it on the Brag Board as well.
I purchased the eight piece kit and added the radio piece. Total cost was $122.00. This covers the doorsill switches on all four doors and the two side dash vents. The rest cover the center module from the top of the two airvents down to the factory "wood" by the ashtray. Really looks sharp. The pieces were cut with such precision that I completed the whole job in 35 minutes with the help of a hair dryer. If you order online, they were offering free shipping by Fed-Ex. A $12.50 savings. I elected not to get the larger kit which includes the upper lights over the windshield and the entire console. I just felt it would be overkill. Personal preference.
The K & N airfliter was purchased through my FLM dealer but I know Pep Boys will get one for you also.
Thanks. Real interesting piece. If his research is correct, things have certainly changed. I remember a few years back, Consumer Reports ran tests on popular oil filters. If memory serves, the Fram was #1 and they rated the Wix 'not accepatble' Now it seems as if that's completely reversed. I had used Fram on all of my cars for many years and never had a problem. Just goes to show you how the marketplace is in a constant state of flux. You can't trust your old standby's any more. I have a 25 year-old KitchenAid dishwasher that used to be mfd by Hobart Corp. It is still going strong. They are now owned by one of the big appliance co's. (I forgot which) and you'd be lucky to get 9 or 10 years out of it.
Had the same buzz discussed in # 626. i fixed it myself. I moved the ground wire in the trunk that is near the speakers under the rear deck. Put a piece of tape on it to secure. All fixed !
Saw a LS at manhattan Lincoln today. They had a dealer add on for the wood trim kits discussed throughout this board. Looked nice, filled in th eobvious spots on the dash etc. Guess how much ?
I finally have managed to get the extension cord for my V8 sport but, oh what a palaver.
Two weeks ago, I went to the dealer to see if it had come in and there it was, all C$104 of it. The parts agent said that I'd better go and see the salesman to see who was going to pay for it. However, he wasn't there and the sales manager said that it was not included in the price of the car and that I would have to pay for it. I demurred and said that the salesman had said that the company would pay for it. The sales manager said that under the circumstances he would agree to that but I said that I couldn't understand a US$40,000 car being supplied with a non standard plug and then asking the customer to divvy up another $100. He said that that was the way it was.
Now the salesman had previously told me that it came with the car and was under the spare tyre. But the sales manager was adamant that this was not the case. Could others with the block heater tell me if they were required to pay for their extension cord.
However, the point is moot as in Saturday's Calgary Herald the salesman was congratulated on being made the sales manager at Universal Ford Lincoln!!
Now I'm waiting for them to get TSB 01-01-05 on the computer so that I can get the reflash done. Then I'll have the retorquing done too.
It's still a great car and the more I drive it, the more I love it. In the snow of Monday I made a left turn from the lights in SST3 with no problems, only to look in my mirrors and see a Caravan try to do the same thing at the same speed as I had but with very ugly results. He slid into the curb and did a 270, luckily not hitting anything else. I bet his alignment suffered!
LS1bmw0. I thought that I had saved the web site for the Ford parts in my fav's. Alas, I didn't. Could you please post the site address again? Thanks. Mike, bummed that summer has left and our so-called winter has returned AFTER I waxed the car
LS1bmw0, I just saw an add for turkey spam! I think that you should start a boycott of Spam until they are "pure" again! :-)
I was reading some older posts and someone mentioned adding a Sony 10 disc changer with the adapter cable. After NUMEROUS attempts to make the Audiovox changer work correctly, I was told by the subs that do the audio for Ford here that the ONLY changer that will work correctly is the Ford unit. I don't know if the Crutchfield unit is compatible or not. Instead of the cable connection that the Audiovox unit had, the Ford unit uses a wire connection.
When I ordered mine, I also asked for the block heater. When I took delivery of it, it was listed on the sticker, but no one had a clue where the extension was. I found it in the spare tire well, and I didn't have to "pay" extra for it. I also notified the dealer as to where to find it. It belongs with the car, your dealer is giving you the run-around!
I think Ford changes the control cable/pin outs on the cd changer. There are places on the net that sell the factory OEM changers for less - http://www.radiosandmore.com is one. I'm sure there are others. It's still not cheap but usually less than the dealers. They may even have refurbished models.
Don't know if this helps.... I have a 2000 on-audiophile AS, manufactured 2/00. I added a Ken wood 10 disc changer (trunk mount). It works seamlessly with factory head and steering wheel controls.
hate the spell checker...I have a 2000 non-audiophile LS manufactured 2/00. I added a Kenwood 10 disc changer (trunk mount). It works seamlessly with factory head and steering wheel controls.
I've noted your pro active approach to the service problems posted on this board and you're doing a great job for Ford. I'm very interested in the LS but, as a current owner of a 2000 Infiniti I30, I've become accustomed to having the dealer bend over backwards for any minor request. This, in combination with excellent build quality and reliability, has made me very reluctant to return to Ford products. What is the Ford plan for getting their dealers, LM in particular, to become state of the art? I can live with a few minor mechanical issues and have found on my wife's Taurus that quality really has improved but without dealers backing up the product this could become painful. I'm a Chief Technology Officer for a global firm and if I had the level of quality and service issues noted on this board there would be 24 hour emergency meetings to get at the root causes and fix them. This sort of thing has gone on the the US auto industry for decades now. I'm very interested in your comments.
Comments
Brian(who already sees the rotten vegetables being hurled his way for this unbelievably bad joke!)
Hector
Other than that, the service was fine.
So far the Lincoln Merc dealer I've used is doing pretty well on service. If I have an appt, I get a Mercury Grand Marquis or an LS, if I have an emergency service I get an Enterprise rental. There was a week delay for parts for my failed cooling fan, but that wasn't the dealers fault, I had a car for a week to drive, and they have done very well. Only thing they don't do is wash the car, it's an older dealer and I think they just don't have room for an auto-wash or the initiative to pay people to wash customer cars. But they've always been prompt, did the work correctly the first time, and called within a couple of days of each service to check to see if it was OK. When it wasn't (only once) they immediately had me bring the car back and arranged another loaner and promptly fixed the problem.
So, so far at least, LM is far ahead of Ford in service. Hope it continues. Central Florida Lincoln/Mercury claims to be the oldest Lincoln dealer in the States, though I don't know if that's true or not. Bought a V8 Capri from them in '85 and they were good then too.
In back is a 1/4 mile test track as well as an off road track for Land Rover. Each showroom will be staffed by separate, dedicated sales staff, service reception and service technicians.
There is a picture of it on the LLSOC website, (mis)labeled as the new L-M headquaters model (sorry Brian, I forgot to point this out earlier).
Today was the last straw, It went in last week for the ball joint recall and oil change and to repair the seatcover which had cracks and the finish coming off. They only "repaired" the seat by redying it. There was also a small spot of rust on the rear quarter panel coming up from underneath the paint.-looked like there was a small piece of foreign material under paint. The car was returned to me with the rear quarter badly repainted, a shade darker than the rest of the car, over spray all over the car, and obviously not a clear coat applied.
The price discounts and poor resale value of the LS is not due to the car, but to dealers who really don't want to sell the car or deal with discriminating buyers. They want to sell the big boats to loyal seniors. If anyone has an address for complaints it would be appreciated. Don't know what car is next but the LS days are numbered.
Please tell us a little more about the basis for making the statements you made about the AAA. Are your statements based on personal experience where they repaired you car with used parts? Do others have similar experiences? Was this reported anywhere else and verified? Is it printed somewhere in their insurance policy declaration?
Please don't take offense, but your statements are serious enough to warrant serious inquiry. My experience so many years ago with the AAA on about 3 different occasions was very good, the claims were handled with great ease and friendliness, and they didn't use old parts in the repairs. Can you offer further evidence on how they may have changed over the years?
Thanks,
Read your Policy declarations carefully. I switched to Kemper because of the language about used parts in their policy that were sent out with last years AAA renewal.
Kemper will replace your car with a new one if you wreck it in the first year and only uses new factory parts.
Check it out:http://www.ekemper.com/
The traction on ice and small amounts of snow under 4" is fine on flat surfaces. If you have any hills to contend with, you will have a problem with traction with the Firestones, probably would have to put on Blizzaks. I drive with the SST in 2nd and 3rd to keep wheel spin at a minimum. In the real deep stuff, I had to turn off T/C because I would just sit there with no wheel engagement at all!
My other car is a 99 Suburban, so the LS usually sits in the garage during the snow storms until the plows have been out. Maybe Albert or Giowa can share their snow experiences also. Second thought, maybe Albert shouldn't.
Todd, who is already apologizing for the cheap shot to our Canadian friend.
As to price discounts and poor resale I don't necessarily agree. I haven't seen any incentives on current LS models, only on old 2000 models. They're selling all they can build. By contrast Town Cars and Continentals have holdbacks and rebates galore and routinely sell for several thousand under invoice because of that. Resale values for LS seem to be slightly above average but less than Mercedes, etc. Remember you have to compare residual values against selling price, not sticker price. The LS routinely sells for a couple thousand under MSRP whereas some of the other 'premium' brands sell closer to MSRP. But I do agree that having a better dealer service experience can only increase demand.
I posted, a while back, the same condition that you reported and also the method to start (flooring the throttle). In my previous post, I made reference to what my friend (Service Manager of my current dealership) had told me. Basically, it's a cold-start procedure in which the cylinder is flooded with fuel. For some reason this causes compression loss and that contributes to the strange sound heard when first cranking the motor. Flooring it does the old flooded carburetor thing which results in starting the engine, but with a very rich fuel odour. He says that this is a common problem with other Ford products and is not considered to be something that is wrong. I think that it has to do with dramatic climate change (ie: very cold, dry Saturday evening, park the car, wake up Sunday morning and the temp is much warmer and humid)
LS and Snow (amengual):
The LS is a well balanced car, but the stock Firestones that were on my car are awful in the snow. That reason made me put Blizzak MZ-01's on the car. I've owned other Blizzak tires (WS-15), but never the MZ-01's. These are supposed to be for performance cars. They come in low-profile 17" sizes. Unfortunately they are made for ice and light snow. Most years that would be terrific up here in Southern Ontario, but we've been dumped on this year. I would not buy these tires again. I spun my car out before going to LS Mania in January and caused $2300CDN damage to the passenger side foglight area. I have been banging my head trying to figure out why the car spun as I was going straight ahead at the time I lost it on a road with 4-5" of snow/slush covering it. I am a capable driver as I have had performance training and even spent 2 years racing a 94 Z28 in SOLO1 and SOLO2. Without getting into it too much, I have come to the conclusion that the wide center groove on the MZ-01's (much like an Aquatread groove) may have caught an edge. I have noticed that these tires tend to follow ridges in the road surface, whether it is the edge of the road or frozen snow that could be left by the ridge a dual-wheel type of vehicle would leave (ie: tractor-trailer or 1-ton pickup). It sort of feels like being caught in the rail tracks that are laid down for street cars. I think the car is great, but choose your snow tires carefully. Do NOT compromise your snow traction because you want the car to handle the dry stuff like your Firestones handle in the summer. When buying snows, get the ones that will work best in deep snow. If I could do it again, I would try my damnnest to find 16" rims and install the Blizzak WS-15's.
Dealer Service:
As I think I started this last tirade on dealer service, I think it's time for me to reply to a few things. First, I appreciate the support that many have offered. Next, I also appreciate jjfrye's comments and can say that I approach lists, whether good or bad, with a grain of salt. I understand that many things can be said/written hastily. As my friend is the Service Manager of this dealership, I am sure that I can [non-permissible content removed] about it to him - and I do, a little. I, however, do not want to bring the friendship between us into a business forum, vehicle ownership just isn't worth a friendship that has been around for quite some time. My comments about poor service not only reflect my experiences, but also comments I've heard from others. I have yet to speak with someone in Ontario that is happy with Ford service. I have spoken with many that are as frustrated as I, however.
Vehicle Discounts:
Anyone that doesn't think Lincoln is building a profit into the price of the vehicle is missing something. The 'Committment' is a value added feature that every purchaser of a Lincoln is paying for. Those nice Waterford glasses are also paid for in the purchase price of the car. You may think you are getting a good deal by paying invoice or a little above, but I'm sure Lincoln (or any other manufacturer) is placing a safety margin into every vehicle's price. Big business does favours for no one.
Albert
So far, the snow traction has been good, but the mountains of snow has missed us here in the metropolitan Rochester area. We've gotten 4"-5" at a time, on a couple occasions, but never more that that. Under those circumstances, the car has been OK. Not that I've had any cause for concern, but my old self would still be happier if a limited slip diff was in the back of the car.
Yes, I'll put on the Nomex and goggles, and await the blast.........
One comment in closing, about Albert's mention of new vehicle pricing. I too, am more than sure that they build in quite a safety margin for themselves. The company that I work for has probably 300-400 Ford trucks in their fleet. I've worked here for 30 years, and just found out that we employees can get in on the fleet purchase pricing of Ford vehicles. Not to get anyone overly upset, but I bought my LS at a "no quibble" price of $200 under invoice.
Thank you1
Mark
More on the dealer and the delivery tomorrow!
I agree with you as far as not being able to negotiate with the factory, however, I feel that you can negotiate with a dealer beyond the dollar value of a car. When I bought my Camaro, the sales guy and I were $200 away from a deal. I wasn't spending more and he wasn't coming down any more than he already did. I asked the sales guy what his service department was like and he told me what I expect a sales guy to say. I took a hard look at the car and price, and I decided to take him on his word regarding the service. As everyone here knows, I got lucky on that deal and happened to get a dealership that treated me fairly.
As far as what constitues a good deal, that is way too personal a thing to try to answer in this forum. To some, a 1-carat diamond ring is worth $1000 (just an example - I know nothing about gems), yet I wouldn't give you a dime for the same rock. Rolex, Casio, Mercedes, Kia, Krell, Lloyds, etc. would not co-exist if people didn't place value on items differently. I've spent loads of money on audio equipment, yet I know people that are perfectly fine with an all-in-one boombox that cost a quarter of what I've spent on speaker stands.
If I bought a Lincoln LS for $10,000, yet it was in the shop 50% of the time and I also had a Hyundai Pony that cost me $20,000, yet ran perfectly all the time, which would be the 'deal' in the end?
In summary, there are other items you can negotiate on when buying a car. The final price is just one aspect of the deal that is, right from the start, in the dealership's favour.
Albert
I live in a nice hilly part of town. I tend to look for ways to get around that involve going down hill or on level surface. I haven't been overly impressed with the winter performance of the Firestones on my '00 LS8 Sport. I'm too cheap to buy a set of winter tires. I had a set of Blizzaks on my former '97 Camaro. I wasn't overly impressed and they just seemed to ride "odd" whenever the road surface was clear.
You want truly wretched winter performance, try to drive my '96 Impala SS. I can't hardly get her out of my flat driveway if there is even minimal accumulation. I keep her garaged during winter and had the unfortunate need one time to have to drive her in snow. Not fun.
I misunderstood your post. I totally agree that all the little bells and whistles are built into the price of the car and the buyer must ultimately pay for it. It's all overhead.
Reminds me of my college days at a furniture store. We charged $25 for delivery because we didn't add it to the cost of the furniture. That way if you don't want delivery you don't pay for it. The chain stores had 'free' delivery. We saved a lady several hundred dollars compared to the chain store on a bedroom suite. When we told her delivery was $25 extra she got angry, claiming that the chain store delivered for free. When the mgr offered to give her back her check so she could go back to the chain store she changed her tune. I used to ask people like her whether they thought the chain stores had to pay for the truck, gas and people to deliver furniture or did they get it for free? Of course they said that they paid for it. At which point I would say "Then how can it be free?". Some got it, some didn't. TANSTAAFL. And the store mgr could spot these people as soon as he waited on them. He would call me over and ask me to go check the parking lot and see if these folks were driving a Volvo (this was the mid 80s mind you). He was right at least 80% of the time!!
(zip...zip....goggles on)
My 99 Suburban would tick in the mornings for 5-10 seconds after sitting all night (you know, ticktickticktick). I thought I was having major valve problems that would cost hundreds of bucks to locate and fix. Then I ran across this study and decided to change the oil filter from the Valvoline Quick Lube's to a Purolator Pure One (cost $5.99). Apparently, the Purolator, as well as Mobil1 ($10) and some other premium filters have a superior "anti-drainback valve" that prevents the oil that has passed through the filter from draining back to the oil pan.
It sounded like a hoax, but for $6, worth a try. Of course, I had to wait until this morning to test the results of the swap. When I fired up the beast this morning, viola, no more ticky ticky!
The moral of the story is do not skimp on the oil filter when you change oil. I don't know who manufactures the filters for FLM when the dealer does the service for you, but I would discourage anyone from using Fram's or from discount quicklube centers unless you take your own filter with you.
Here is the link to the study: http://members.nbci.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html
Be safe,
Medphys
Hope you are doing well. Just writing to let you know I went into the
dealership and got the old line ' Oh you have the latest software on
your car!" I get a reverse hesitation of about 3 sec's, enough to have
caused a concern at least a few times when cars were coming at me. The
Dealership said they don't all get the TSB, and they would have to
Download it via Satellite and had to link up their computer. Man I am
all of a sudden preparing for Launch with NASA!
My question is how can they get the TSB. They are an excellent service
dealership and this is the first time they failed me. They are Village
Lincoln Mercury of Irving. Can you get them the Software or let me know
what to tell them so they can get it in a quicker fashion.
Regards,
Victor
Here are some others to compare to the LS:
Catera is 33%, Continental is 25% (sheesh!); BMW 540 is 43%. Jaguar S-type is same as LS: 37 & 38%.
Thank you for your cooperation.
KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs
medphys
Thanks
I will scan it in and post it on the new "Brag Board" that will debut in a couple of weeks. This also applies to anyone who wants to post their pic on LLSOC. Email me the picture and I will post it on the Brag Board as well.
Brian
Tom....
The K & N airfliter was purchased through my FLM dealer but I know Pep Boys will get one for you also.
$995.
Two weeks ago, I went to the dealer to see if it had come in and there it was, all C$104 of it. The parts agent said that I'd better go and see the salesman to see who was going to pay for it. However, he wasn't there and the sales manager said that it was not included in the price of the car and that I would have to pay for it. I demurred and said that the salesman had said that the company would pay for it. The sales manager said that under the circumstances he would agree to that but I said that I couldn't understand a US$40,000 car being supplied with a non standard plug and then asking the customer to divvy up another $100. He said that that was the way it was.
Now the salesman had previously told me that it came with the car and was under the spare tyre. But the sales manager was adamant that this was not the case. Could others with the block heater tell me if they were required to pay for their extension cord.
However, the point is moot as in Saturday's Calgary Herald the salesman was congratulated on being made the sales manager at Universal Ford Lincoln!!
Now I'm waiting for them to get TSB 01-01-05 on the computer so that I can get the reflash done. Then I'll have the retorquing done too.
It's still a great car and the more I drive it, the more I love it. In the snow of Monday I made a left turn from the lights in SST3 with no problems, only to look in my mirrors and see a Caravan try to do the same thing at the same speed as I had but with very ugly results. He slid into the curb and did a 270, luckily not hitting anything else. I bet his alignment suffered!
Best wishes to all,
Dbain1
Mike, bummed that summer has left and our so-called winter has returned AFTER I waxed the car
I was reading some older posts and someone mentioned adding a Sony 10 disc changer with the adapter cable. After NUMEROUS attempts to make the Audiovox changer work correctly, I was told by the subs that do the audio for Ford here that the ONLY changer that will work correctly is the Ford unit. I don't know if the Crutchfield unit is compatible or not. Instead of the cable connection that the Audiovox unit had, the Ford unit uses a wire connection.
I think Ford changes the control cable/pin outs on the cd changer. There are places on the net that sell the factory OEM changers for less - http://www.radiosandmore.com is one. I'm sure there are others. It's still not cheap but usually less than the dealers. They may even have refurbished models.
The first re-flash (mid-2000) accomplished little. The latest (01-01-05) accomplished all I had hoped for. Now the car is ready to go as soon as I am.