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Comments
Pat: am I the "Bob" in post 546? If yes, HELLO!!!
Bob
1. In a minute. The car is perfect for me in almost all respects ... size, performance, appearance, luxury, and, most significantly, VALUE.
2. In order of importance:
a- 51 mph drone. Can be annoying.
b- Sometimes-recalcitrant transmission (sorry Mark). I plan on getting the latest TSB this week when service is due.
c- Below average speakers.
d- Lack of sufficient interior storage.
I only consider "a" to be really serious.
3. No. It has performed better. To say the car handles impressively is an understatement.
4. No...That is other than not buying from a dealer that goes out-of-business three months later.
5. Overall performance. As a package, the car handles, steers, brakes, and accelerates fantastically.
6. Yes. I've only been on a couple of 3-hour drives so far ... but I have no complaints about the seats in any way except that the passenger seat should have a height adjustment like the driver's seat does.
7. Car is incredible. I'd like more power but I'm nuts that way. Maybe I'd whine about a lot of little nits like trunk hinge intrusion, disappointing gas mileage, and exterior paint appearance (should be more lustrous). But I would most certainly complain about the general state of their dealer network. It needs improvement big time if LM plans to compete with the likes of Lexus et al. I would also tell them how VERY impressed I am with the participation of LM employees on this board and via e-mail.
OK who's next ???
Joe
He's also working on a carbon fiber air box that will flow much more air than the stock box.
So far not bad increases considering that the mass air flow sensor replacement takes about 15 minutes and the exhaust system can be installed in about an hour by someone with a lift. He said the tone with the new version of the Borla, which replaces the dual resonators up front with a single on, makes the car sound like a real V-8.
He's going to start working on the V-6 components next.
Just took a look at your site. Very nice pictures. Didn't realize you were a photographer. Be interesting to see what kind of pictures you'd be able to do with a LS using some of the backdrops you've used.
Brian
These guys don't know jack about the cars they test and report on and they are not interested in facts or accurate reporting. I already know what their response will be to Brian's letter. I gave up on them a long time ago.
#1 Not only Yes, but......well you get the picture. I am even now planning my next LS purchase and my wife is a little annoyed about that!
#2 These are all nit picking as this is the most fun car I've owned. So here goes; the glove box is a joke, the center console could/should be bigger, dual visors like my 1988 Sable had, the speakers should be the same quality as
the stereo.
#3 I'd have to say no to this. Actually it has performed WAY beyond my
expectations. After 18 years of FWD my return to RWD has left me taking EVERY turn as aggressively as I can!
#4 Yes. I'd pop for the sport package and the V8.
#5 This has to be the handling. This car sticks to the road and doesn't hesitate trying to please. It does EXACTLY what you ask of it. It is VERY stable at high speed, over 100.
#6 VERY. We drove from San Diego to Las Vegas and when we got there I
felt like I'd just had a short trip to the store. It took us about 4 hours with one bathroom stop. The seats are the most comfortable I've ever sat in for any extended period.
#7 That they have a GREAT car on their hands and do whatever it takes to not screw it up. Resist ALL temptations to dumb down the engineering. Don't take a step backward just to save a few bucks. Dropping rear wheel disc brakes and dual exhaust on the Sable to save $$$$ took the Sable out of the #1 spot on my new car list. I showed Ford, I bought an LS! :-)
That about sums it up. This is, without a doubt, the most all around blast to drive car I've owned. That and luxury to boot! I agree with Brian, don't even test drive this car unless you bring your checkbook, as you WILL take the long way go home in your new LS!
Michael
(1) Are there any TSBs I need to know about?
(2) Any recommended aftermarket accessories?
(3) Is D4 recommended for around town driving?
(4) Any way to get an outside temp thermometer installed?
(5) Should I stay with the Firestone P235/50VR tires, i.e. are they safe?
Thanks, and thanks to the post by Marsha7 and to all of you who responded to it.
wlpncp@yahoo.com
As to your questions,
1) It depends on your build date. www.llsoc.com has the specifics.
2)K&N air filter, better speakers.
3)I'd stay with D5, even in town. It will help your overall MPG.
4) You already have one in the dual zone automatic climate control. There is a button that says "outside air temp."
5) After talking to the man who was in charge of the suspension development, I'd stick with them. They were designed specifically for the suspension. I have the Continentials so maybe someone else with the Firestones can chime in.
I am very impressed with the Firestone P235/50VR tires and have never seen a post by anybody who had any sort of failure due to defect. They have good wear qualities and great wet traction.
I've tried D4 in town, and I've tried shifting manually with SST in town. At this point, I think you "can" improve the fuel mileage a little bit with the SST (probably because it always starts up in 2nd gear), but it probably isn't worth the trouble. I don't think using D4 in town makes an appreciable difference.
If you haven't read about how the transmission trains itself, look back over prior posts. There's quite a bit about it. I find the transmission shift points are very well chosen in automatic mode, so it is hard to do better manually. Manual mode is better for mountain switch-back driving and other cases where you want to prevent upshifting.
Michael
every day...!
The only complaint I might have...and I do, are the cupholders are to small and cramped .... Oh Yeah...I had to take it in, rear lamp was leaking ...and they stuck me in a Town Car for the afternoon ( yuk ).........
Ps. I have the Firestones...The Continentals rap too much when there cold.
* Miata-like joy of driving with luxury comfort and appointments.
* Synergy: The resultant package is somehow better than the sum of its parts. This is something when considering the technology in the engine, transmission and suspension.
* I WILL purchase the next significantly changed model ... 2002 I hope.
I've found D4 useful in town; seem to have to use the brakes a lot in 30-35mph traffic in D5.
Put some miles on it (no problem there, right?), come back & tell us what you think.
Scott
Brian
Pat
Host
Sedans and Womens Automotive Message Boards
I agree with many in this forum, Ford really needs to reevalute it's dealer networks and establish some standards and customer satisfaction goals!
Every one of them are run as a professional first class operation. I have visited most of them and if you were blind folded, you would have a difficult time telling the difference. The attitude of the people, product knowledge, service operation and showroom appearance are all first class.
I believe that most of the problems that we hear about are due to the owners not driving the business based around the customer is the king or queen and Ford's sales reps not creating the excitment and proper hands on training of the sales force to drive home the point that they have a BMW killer in their showroom.
I also believe that the other issue is that the selling price becomes the driving factor and not the quality of the product. Look at BMW and Mercedes. They will discount the car only enough to make you feel like you got aomething yet at the end of the day, they are selling value and status.
There are times that I believe we are a part of the blame in driving the street price of the LS down. Just think about how many posts are here looking for the lowest price over invoice. You will not find this with BMW or Mercedes. We continue to do this becasue the Ford/LM dealers let us drive the price down so that they get a unit sale. The owner makes money on hold backs yet the LS loses price integrity. I realize that there are probably a lot of people who disagree with me but this is how I feel about the dealers.
jdonnee. I believe you're mistaken about BMW & MB. Go visit theie boards. They do the same things we lowly American buyers do to get the best price. They even have something that we don't, European Delivery. Apparently local US dealers don't like the program as the car is less expensive ED.
And to all you snow belters: today was about 85F. It was SOOOO beautiful that I waxed the car!! Not to rub it in, but it sure is tough living in Paradise. Now if they could just keep the electricity flowing!
http://care.cs.ua.edu/analyze.asp
Bob?
I'm confused.......
Non-withstanding my little rant, 2002 won't bring much change. I believe the Lincoln group mentioned above was surprised by the enthusiast reaction to the car and if that is the case, with a three year development cycle 2002 will have been put to bed by the end of last year. They are probably working on the 2003 and may be close to bedding that year down too. 2004/5 is probably the first chance for major changes. The LS is an expensive car for Lincoln to build. I doubt that they make a whole lot of money on each car so they are going to look at what is going to give them the most bang for the buck.
Brian
Why consumers put up with this is beyond me. We wouldn't let McDonalds and Burger King eliminate Sunday sales but in many States they allow car dealers to. Things won't change until consumers start lobbying their legislators and put their money and votes where their mouths should be on the issue.
Remember a couple years ago some interesting magazine reporting about car dealers and their ability to muzzle the local newspapers. Get the dealers mad and they can pull their ad buys. They pay so much for advertizing that newspaper owners and editors can't afford to lose the buys. They know it doesn't pay to advocate for more consumer-friendly franchise laws, nor does it pay to have articles showing car buyers how they can save money when buying or reporting on problems with local dealers or their sales practices.
Hey, Jonathan, where's my SVT LS with six-speed Getrag ??? ( or how can you put that $3,000 tranny in an $18,000 car and not in a $35,000 LS? )
I agree with you totally except for the Sunday closing. I think any business should have the right to set their working hours any way they want to, including being closed on Sunday. Frankly I like being able to walk around the lot unmolested. Chik-fil-A has always been closed on Sundays due to the owner's strict religious beliefs. I see this as a benefit to the employees and a personal choice by the owner and not the same issue as the franchise laws.
While I do not think Napleton compares to a Lexus dealer (old dealership buildings in need of replacement), I have noticed they are getting better each time I come back - usually for regular service or a TSB - car has been great otherwise. Napleton is a chain of LM dealers in the Chicago area. My opinion would also be to stay away from Kronon LM. Friends and family have used them in the past and have either stopped buying LM or are now using Napleton.
Do keep in mind that there are lots of people who don't work traditional Mon-Fri. My wife is a nurse. She works every other weekend. I provide services for 3 large 24/7 operations in which many EEs have odd days off, work 2nd or 3rd shifts, or work 12-16 hour shifts. Completely eliminating an entire day to buy a car can impact getting the whole family together at a convenient time.
Keeping in mind that Islam's day is Friday, Judaism's day is Saturday, and Christians split between Saturday and Sunday, in an era of increasing religious diversity, will be interesting to see if dealers can continue to restrict Sunday sales.
YES. They're called "blue laws". Bergen County, NJ, a very densly populated and heavily commercialized part of the state has blue laws. No businesses are allowed to be open on Sunday except for food stores, gas stations and some others. If the owner prefers to close on Saturday for religious reasons, then he can open Sunday.
I lived there for 13 years and found these laws very annoying because it always seemed that the only time I could get to the mall was on Sunday. Although these laws were originally enacted for religious reasons generations ago, they are maintained because people want a day of rest when they can "get around" in their own county and not face traffic jams everywhere they go...and Bergen Co. is like that.
Anyway...lets get back on topic, yes?
Joe
Sorry about the rant, but this has been a raw nerve for me lately. Maybe with the LS back last summer, but more and more I see it everywhere. I find myself doing too many sanity checks with my wife (who's just as big a freak as me) and my peers (who are crazy enough to work with me).
Brian
All crash parts are replaced with "used" if they are available at salvage yards. Radiators and A/C Condensers are replaced with aftermarket parts for sure. The only parts ever replaced new are safety items such as suspension or moving parts but don't count on it.
This is a new century and that company has made changes as to how they spend money on auto repairs since it represents 60% to 70% of their total dollars spent on claims. I would stay away from any type of insurance that wants to save money when "your" claim comes across their desk, unless you plan to beat your Lincoln LS and you don't care about it.
It is to L-M's credit that they are addressing this issue, and are open about it. J.Rogers would like to see longer hours and Saturday service, among other changes (according to published reports).
There are some truly exceptional L-M mechanics (service technicians) out there -that is why I started keeping the list of Good Dealer reports.
Also, L-M's control over dealers using the L-M logo and name is not totally nil. . . in fact, Lincoln has an obligation to monitor and enforce standards if they want to protect the exclusive use of their trademark. Which they are doing.
The problem, as well-stated above, is that it is hard to make changes in an entrenched system, it is hard to justify changes to dealers who are setting sales records with the LS, it is hard to impartially evaluate dealers, except by customer satisfaction, which of course is skewed because consumers love the LS and do not necessarily distinguish the car from the dealer in evaluating the ownership experience.
And, of course the law does not allow L-M to get involved with the daily workings of the franchise business - except to the extent permitted by agreements probably negotiated many years ago when tailfins were just a glimmer in a detroit stylyst eye.
What's a poor automaker to do?
Thanks Tom.......
I guess I'm ok with it if it's a county or city thing done to improve the quality of life in that area AND the merchants knew about it when they opened shop.
now back to our favorite car.....
I found that out too. That's why I changed it over to a members only room. Only people who have signed up for LLSOC on NBCi can access our chat room. So we shouldn't have that problem anymore.
Brian
The first dealership to offer the Premier Auto Group's vision is breaking ground in Scottsdale, and a lot more:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010205/bs/autos_dealerships_dc_3.html
http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories/dandyaward205.htm
Overall, I'm a happy camper! BTW, I'm looking forward to seeing that Premier Auto Group facility go in up in north Scottsdale.