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Comments
Shame on you for not going to the LLSOC Links page.
re: gowiththeflow
It might take Jim some time to respond. I believe he is at a dealer convention this week. Though, knowing Jim he will respond at his earliest opportunity. If you will permit to toss my two cents into your request:
Lincoln is the only car company to have high-level executives and their engineers who work on the car interacting with the owners as proactively and as closely as they do. Not Infiniti, BMW, Lexus or Mercedes have this level of involvment. The people that build the LS are geniunely concerned about the real and perceived build quality of the LS along with dealer service issues. That last one happens to be a rather large bug with Jim, specifically, and with the whole Lincoln organization, including the president Mark Hutchins. Build quality improvements have been ongoing. Dick Cupka, the Chief Progam Engineer for Lincoln had some statistical numbers at our LS Mania event at the happy hour about repeating problems and how they were decreasing rapidly.
Ford has created what is called the Premier Auto Group, which will encompass the high-end brands, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Volvo, and Lincoln, into a single dealership. I believe they are setting pretty high standards of service and quality expectations for a dealer to be accepted into this program.
Lincoln is also very involved in the Lincoln LS Owners Club. Due to the fact that I refuse to act like the "National Enquirer of the Ford world" website, Lincoln allows us the unique privelege of interacting closely with their engineers and their marketing people, in a way that except for the SVT group doesn't exist any where else.
I do think that Lincoln has an uphill battle against their established dealer network, due to the power the dealers seem to be able to exert as a group against the company. I think historically, the people who bought the big Lincolns didn't complain too much about the quality of service. These dealers aren't used to people such as us, who walk into a dealership knowing a tremendous amount of information about the vehicle and demand a high and consistent level of customer service.
Even though a big auto-maker has tremendous resources, there are limitations on how fast and how specifically procedures can be changed to enhance the brand.
J. Rogers and his team are very sophisticated, and have a bit more autonomy from the corporate decision making heirarchy by 1) being headquartered out in California, instead of Detroit, and 2) having a progressive, forward-looking chairman in J. Nasser.
Moving a brand as old and entrenched as Lincoln is like pushing the Queen Mary - you push and push, and slowly it goes in the direction you want, yet is buffeted by currents and winds.
Identifying the problems, such as we do on this forum to help ourselves and L-M, is just the start of a very long process. Expecting immediate, wide-ranging changes, I believe is unrealistic.
My car is still squeak free, rattle free, the interior and exterior bits are holding up (thus far) extremely well. The V6 Duratec's 210hp is plenty for my aggressive driving style (34 years old), but theres enough torque that rarely have the need to floor it all the way.
Great Job, Lincoln. Seriously. Great job.
Brian, thanks. For pennance I'll drive an extra 100 miles this weekend
Of course, First thing first, I went on LM WEB site and through the personal consaltant the located a dealer with SEVERAL LS Manual - Lincoln-Mercury of New Castel, DE, about 50 minutes away from my home. I called them, talked to the store manager, and scheduled a test drive. Once I showed up at the dealership, the car was ready for a test drive, and off we went.
I custom ordered the car from them at $500 over dealer invoice, and got a great deal on a lease.
The car was schedule to arrive on 2/19, but it made it in on 2/6.
The total purchase and delivery was at the same level of the Infiniti's that we had. And the best part, driving it home....
There are many posts about people can't get an LS manual to drive. If you live in the Philadelphia area, look these guys up. They are a first class operation and well worth your while.
I have mud flaps and wood dash on order. In addition, I am trying to integrate my digital Motorola StarTech to the LS built in system.
Thanks much for your comments on the web site. So you think my art would improve if my Autumn Red LS is in all my landscapes from now on? :>) One day soon, I'm going to upload a couple of pix I took at LS Mania. Nothing special, but the more the merrier, eh?
Eli;
Congradulations on your Pearl Blue LS. You are making me Green with envy waiting for my Red one! I've had my V6 manual on order since mid December. It is due 2/26, but I'm hoping it will come in early, like yours did. So great to hear how much you like it already. Maybe you should change your handle to LS=1I30=0 :>) I'd love to talk more with you about it off list to avoid clutter. Contact me at george@whitneygallery.com if you like.
They gave a Town Car as a loaner (what a boat, I was happy to get my LS back) there were empty cigarette wrappers and paper on the floor but at least it had gas this time. The last loaner car was almost empty and I returned it with more gas then they gave it to me with. I spoke with the service manager who is always courteous and seems concerned about my issues. He listened to the engine noise and said he never heard the noise before but would listen to one of the employees cars to see if it was the same or not. He informed me that they have seen the flooding problem a lot. In fact, the owner and the owners daughter (who both drive LS's of course) both had there cars towed in for the same thing and there was no fix for it yet.
Well when I picked up the car I was informed the service and tire rotation was done for a charge of $46.48 (you think for $28.90 they could include the oil and filter and $2.50 waste removal charge). If they would at least vacuumed the mats and washed the car maybe it wouldn't seem to high a price (this was my first paid service). When I'm paying for it, why do I need service every 3000 miles while 2001 owners who are not paying need service every 5000 miles? They were unable to verify the engine noise problems, wiper noise problem and flooding problem. The window trim was painted (painted area has a gloss finish now but they say it will blend in as I clean it over time). The good news is the reflash on the transmission was done, I checked it out on the way home and have to thank Mark for a great job on the software (and his participation on this site). The shift from park to drive is now immediate and the shifting in SST mode seems smoother too.
Since we were on the topic of dealers, I thought I would report my experience today to you all. I have given my dealer an average rating all along only because they're courteous and treat me with respect. Those attributes only go so far to making a customer satisfied. There seems to be a lack of knowledge and training which I'm sure is the same for most dealers no matter what brand of car. I hope LM puts more effort into bringing their dealers and service depts. up to the quality of the car we so love, because this is what will allow them to dominate the sport sedan market.
Tom
Your owner's service manual will give you the details on what constitutes the heavy-duty schedule. If your driving patterns don't fall into the h-d description, then Lincoln says that the 5k interval is just fine.
I've always changed my oil & filter at 3k miles on my vehicles; I have an '01 LS and paid extra to put my car on the 3k interval. Did I need to do this? Probably not, since I don't drive on dirt roads and don't pull trailers, but I decided to do it anyway.
If the dealer tells you that you NEED to change the oil every 3k, it's likely because he wants you to pay him more often, not because he's genuinely concerned about your car. If the manufacturer says that 5k is sufficient, then it should be sufficient.
The instructions now indicate that the accelerant should be used on all pieces, but there should be plenty in that one package--it goes a long way. When I finished, I put the pad back in the package and rolled the top, and it was still moist 5 months later.
One thing to be aware of is that that stuff is VERY sticky and it will get all over your fingers if you're not extremely careful. Also, the hair dryer is very helpful in making the parts more compiant; just make sure you don't use too much heat.
The most important piece of advice I can give you, and I've said this many times, is TEST FIT, TEST FIT, and TEST FIT again before you even think about removing the red backing. Make darn sure you're ready; once a piece is stuck, it's permanent. I started with the window switch plates in the back seat, and got more confident as I moved forward, but the end result looked (and still looks) like a factory installation.
If you use the A/C and radio panels, be sure to test-fit them in a dark garage with the panel lights on. It's easy to obscure those tiny little lamps on the A/C if you're not careful. Make sure you can see them from the driver's seat so you can get a firm handle on location before you install.
It's nerve-wracking, but not really that difficult. Heck, if I can do it, just about anyone should be able to.
Good luck; it'll look great when you're done.
Anybody have a comment on these? There seem to be more than is reasonable for a $40,000 car.
Thanks for your help.
Do me a favor and let me know if you figure out how to integrate your Digital StarTac with the LS built in system.
One of the reasons people come here is to discuss problems they've had and vent about dealers who haven't treated them well. If, for example, you go to the Infiniti I30 forum, you'll find lots of posts about transmission and wind noise problems, and a whole bunch about bad experiences at dealerships. You've had good luck with your I30 and your dealer, so you know that your experience isn't the same as some of those I30 posters.
I can tell you that after 5 months and 5300 miles, my '01 LS V8 Sport has been essentially flawless, and is a real joy to drive. My dealer is a small-town Ford/L-M shop, and they don't have a luxurious showroom, but their service department has treated me very well in my 2 visits for routine maintenance. They're honest and they know their business; I have no complaints.
Having met Jim Rogers and Dick Cupka and Mark Kovalsky, I can tell you that they are genuinely enthusiastic about the LS, and are truly committed to making LS ownership a great experience.
If you buy one, can I guarantee you that you'll get a perfect car and great dealer support? Heck, no; that's always a crapshoot with any brand. I do know that there are people at Lincoln who sincerely care about their customers, though, and that they've put a really outstanding car in the Lincoln showroom.
I smile every time I get behind the wheel of mine, and I'd definitely recommend it to anyone who's in the market for a world-class sports sedan--it's a terrific ride. If you haven't driven one, drop by a dealer and take one for a spin. You'll see what I mean.
And, no, I'm not getting a commission for this.
nomagic99 - I checked out the NHTSA.gov web site many times since I learned about it here. Check out the 2000 I30 for example there is 21 TSB's there. I think the fact that it's a new car, and that Ford issues a lot more instructional TSB's than most of the manufacturers, this accounts for the number you see there.
fokrab - I feel better already!
Tom...........
Anyway, drive the car and they will have to pry your hands off of the steering wheel.
Now, when I look at what the complaints are, I see several that are serious, the most serious to me being a 45mph crash where airbags did not deploy. (This was the ONLY complaint involving an injury.) And another where they deployed incorrectly because of a rough road. Airbag problems ARE serious, but are they limited to LSs?
4 of the complaints were xmission shift Park-Rev etc. We know those are solved.
1 is a consumer complaining that Lincoln put some more equipment on LSs sold after he bought his.
1 is a consumer complaining that his doors lock automatically.
Several are concerned with air bag lights being on or off.
1 seems to begin a tirade on LS being based on right-hand drive Jag so things are on the wrong side in his LS.
1 was 'smoke' from under the hood, due either to a radiator cap or a wiring harness, consumer can't tell which. But the radiator cap was loose. Hmmm....
1 claims runaway acceleration and 1 claims car violently swerving from side to side on the highway. Hmmmm...
A few are brakes. Always considered serious. But only one says the brakes didn't work, the others complain about pedal feel.
Notably, 3 are reporting their Firestones blowing apart!
So, my take is:
Serious: airbags(2), brakes(1), tires(3) = 6
Dicey: 1 runaway, 1 swerve on its own
The rest: Fuggetaboutit
The verdict: Seems like a miniscule amount to me, though no doubt Lincoln should be and probably is investigating air bag and brake complaints, assuming they're valid.
But, I must be honest, the Firestones blowing troubles me. I would *really* like the option to put different tires on my LS, and get credit from the dealer for the Firestones. Has anyone been able to do this? Am *I* over-reacting? I know the Stones are chosen for their match to LS suspension etc, but I just don't trust them based on recent events.
Lastly, BTW, the poster may not have noticed on this same site that the LS has 3 5-stars and 1 4-star rating in the crash tests.
Is applying the wood trim really easy? How do you remove the existing pieces?
Your def Leppard quote is perfecto. Zero defects can't be humanly achieved. Though some humans come closer than others!
I went back to the NHTSA site just now and reviewed the 38 BMW 3-Series complaints. Amazingly, the list is very similar to the LS. There was 1 injury accident, again due to air bag non-deployment. There were several cases of air bags popping off for no reason. Several 'unexpected accelerations'. Several brake complaints. Some air bag lights on or off. And even a few tire complaints. No sidewall disintegrations here, but some bubbling and slow leaks and cupping, last one probably car rather than tire problem. Quite a few engine complaints, too. Won't start, very hard to start, smokes, rough idle, etc etc. Interesting.
Now, the Audi A4 seems to have a serious problem with brakes in wet weather. Seems water coats disks or pads and causes a 1 or 2 second delay in brake action. This accounted for most of the 23 complaints lodged against the vehicle.
The TSB to reflash the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is for cars built before October, 2000. Your 12-00 built car already has this.
Mark
I know you told us this before, but what is the number of the TSB for the latest transmission reflash?
Can someone please tell me how to search for text in this board. We used to be able to do this with the old software. The search function on the top of the page only tells you what "board" the text is in ... not specific messages.
Joe
Solution: (Don't judge it as hokey until you've given it a fair chance) I purchased four translucent plastic mini funnels. max. diameter is about 1". I snipped off the spouts, stacked the funnels inside each other, then placed them, inverted, over the theft indicator located at the forward-center of the instrument panel ... near the base of the windshield.
The funnel stack looks like a mini pylon, and does stay in place. By varying the number of funnels, the 'on' time can be adjusted.
The ones I purchased are marketed under the name of "Hutzler", model No. 801-S. They have pale blue, pale green, and uncolored ... all are translucent. I used pale blue. A package of two costs $1.49.
Three stacked funnels weren't enough; I had to use four in order to get the turn-on I wanted.
This does cause some quizzical looks and "what's that for" comments. Could also possibly serve as an aiming device for Stanny1.
Navigating to this board is a pain !
I am VERY computer aware but I can't seem to set a "favorite" or "bookmark" to get to the latest and greatest in this site. It always sends me through the forum "home" page.
Anyone ?
Thanks!
=================================================
Delayed Engagement TSB# 01-01-05
The TSB to install the 2001 calibration in the 2000 cars has been sent to the dealers. The TSB number is 01-01-05.
Here's the text:
Transmission - 5R55N - Delayed Reverse Or Drive Engagements - Harsh Upshifts Or Downshifts - Erratic Upshifts - Delayed Downshifts Near 20 MPH - Vehicles With 3.9L Engine Built Before 9/27/2000 Or With 3.0L Engine Built Before 10/17/2000
If your car was built after that date you have the very latest. Some early 2001 cars built before the date listed have all of the changes except for a fix for a delayed downshift near 20 MPH. That's why they are included here.
================================================
For the ball joint recall here is the text. You can view it either from LLSOC under Recall or from the NHTSA site.
================================================
Report Date: November 13, 2000 07:01:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 00V359000
Component: SUSPENSION:INDEPENDENT FRONT CONTROL ARM:LOWER:BALL JOINT
Manufacturer: FORD MOTOR COMPANY
Potential Number of Units Affected: 82300
Year: 2000
Make: LINCOLN
Model: LS
Manufactured From: AUG 1998 To: SEP 2000
Year of Recall: '00
Type of Report: Vehicle
Summary:
Vehicle Description: Passenger vehicles. The front suspension lower ball joints were not tightened to specifications when they were attached to the lower control arms.
If the ball joint attaching nuts are not adequately tightened, they can loosen and, ultimately, result in fracture of the ball joint stud. If the ball joint fractures, control of the vehicle could be affected, increasing the risk of a crash.
Dealers will inspect the torque on the two ball joint attaching nuts. Vehicles with loose ball joint attaching nuts will either have the fasteners tightened to specification, or if necessary, the ball joints will be replaced. Owner notification is expected to begin during November 2000. Owners who take their vehicles to an authorized dealer on an agreed upon service date and do not receive the free remedy within a reasonable time should contact Ford at 1-800-392-3673. Also contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's Auto Safety Hotline at 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236).
What that means is, if you are using Microsoft Explorer now all you have to do is type in
Lincoln LS
at the address bar(it isn't case sensitive so upper case or lower case works), instead of www.llsoc.com and you will be taken directly to LLSOC.
No fuss no bother! Try it. Let me know if you have any problems. Remember this only works with Internet Explorer so Netscape users don't tell me it doesn't work because it isn't going to and this time it isn't my poor web coding skills!
Brian
Wes
I quoted your email to the service rep, his reply was that "our computers will be up on Saturday and we'll be able to program that up for you". Brian, will there be anyway to know if they have the correct flash program installed? I wouldn't want the old flash program installed by mistake. They have always given me great service, so I really would like to give these guys a chance.
Thanks!!!
Mark
LLSOCs Project LS-GT will serve as the test mule for the development of the system. It is going into Magnaflow's research and development facility on Feb.26 for a week. Once we are both satisfied with the sound and performance gains, we will turn our attention to the LS-6 and develop the system for that model immediately after. Both systems appear to be similar so the V-6 development time should be shorter.
I was very impressed with Magnaflow's R&D and manufacturing facilities. Their systems are warranteed for life and are made from a high-quality, mandrel-bent stainless steel. The entire system will be custom-developed for the LS line.
I will be documenting the development and installation of the system on both models, for the LLSOC quarterly online magazine which will go online at the end of March.
Brian
The premium package includes the moon roof, 2 tone interior, special floor and trunk mats, a cargo net, Nudo leather with some kind of special texture or something, 12 speaker Alpine system, some. It comes in several colors but a new one offered is Ceramic White.
Has anyone who posts here or reads these posts used this service? Has me wondering what it might be like to buy using this serivce. For potential buyers, you might check it out.
Brian G: There is a Mercury Marauder site here on Town Hall. I mentioned to them your post 658 above. If you get the chance, maybe you could post it there? They are always looking for any new credible info on Marauder/Blackhawk.
Brian
All things considered, everything went well. Car was ready on time with no problems and the oil life was reset. The TSB was installed. I will report on the TSB's effects after I drive a little more.
They tried to charge me for the oil ($32) but I reminded them of the free maintenance. They also told me that oil should be changed every 3000 miles and that Lincoln "changed" it for 2001 to 5000 miles with free service. Amazing how that works...
The car was not cleaned but I did get dropped off to work (which is nearby). Service was courteous but I did feel that the "service advisor" was somewhat uninformed. He wasn't even sure about what kind of service was needed at 5000 miles beyond the oil change.
I won't recommend this dealer for "the list" yet until I get a little more experience with them.
Joe
I was thoroughly unimpressed with Liberty when I went to buy my LS which is one reason I ended up at Morristown. Liberty is very convenient since it is only about 1 mile from my work. Their service dept is not very inspiring from its appearance but as long as I get good service I won't care about looks.
I'd consider Montclair but it is a little out-of-the-way for me. Lets keep each other posted on our experiences at these dealers and hopefully at least one of them will be exceptional.
BTW: Welcome to the club. You made the right choice with the LS. What did you order ???
Joe
Enjoy, Michael
Saab 9-3 50
Audi A4 1.8T 42
BMW 3 Series 40
Audi A4 2.8 30
VW Passat 24
Saab 9-5 20
BMW 5 Series 15
Audi A6 2.7T 12
MB C240 10
LINCOLN LS V-6 3
Nissan Maxima 3
Jag estimates 10% of the upcoming less expensive AWD X-type, with 2.5L or 3.0L DOHV 60 deg V-6s, will made with manuals. Says 5-speed box.