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Comments
As Bruno mentioned, the ride with the guy in the Cobra opened my eyes to what I had been doing wrong. I kept remembering an old Jackie Stewart driving video where his big theme was being smooth and driving with your fingertips. Whenever I was smooth, I was slow. When I felt a little out of control, I was faster. Keep repeating, full on throttle, full on brake, full on throttle, full on brake.
I think the automatic cars just kept the transmission in 2nd. Did anybody try using SST ?
With the slight delay in building power combined with an indecision on where the track was going and how much throttle should be used, it made for a lot of areas for improvement the next time !!!
John
LLSOC Charter Member
A couple of questions:
1) Will the whole list of times be published? Sounds like the low-time LS's were in the 61-second range, going up from there. Probably if I'd been there (based on my Mania I performance), I'd have been around 70 seconds. What I'm interested in is how the LS's did relative to the mixed-bag of other cars there. Three ES300's? At least those guys were willing to run them. How did they do? Ain't it interesting that there weren't significant numbers of BMW's competing? I think so. How did the GS300 do? Of course, we all know that an excellent driver in a poor car can skew the results as much as a poor driver in an excellent car, but given enough samples, it'll all even out. The huge beneficial fallout from this event (IMHO) appears to be that a lot of LS drivers will be running in these things routinely wherever they live. PLEASE POST RESULTS! Yeah, when the season and travel schedule works out, I'll do the same and run my LS when my sons run. Stay tuned.
2) Will the manual live on in 2003 and beyond? Will the 6 be upgraded sufficiently to compete with the G35? I've finally come to grips with the concept that the 8 will never have a manual. The question has now evolved to what the power upgrades for the V6 will be. Recognizing that anyone who attended Mania will be executed if they talk, I guess I'm questioning whether anything has appeared in "the media" on this topic.
It was interesting to note the repeated references to cynics. My tenth-grade English teacher (this was some time ago) referred to me as a cynic, so I'm dialed in. I'll say it again for those who have joined recently: "Happiness = Expectations - Reality." Make of it what you will.
I never thought to ask Jonathan what he was doing with the non-SST car. He's good enough, he probably just put it in D and let it rip.:)
I felt hooked after Saturday, and have an even better perspective on it today, after my first day back commuting to/from work. It's just not the same playing around on public roads; in fact, it would be grossly unsafe to probe the limits of this car that way. One of my alternate routes has a series of curves on a quiet county road, marked 35 mph, with good visibility. When in the mood, I'll blast thru that stretch around 80-85, not even really driving it, just steering. To really drive it would mean using the other lane so as to clip the apexes just right and probably going well over 100 mph. This, friends, would be insane. One new pothole, a critter, etc., would be major bad news. After a glimpse of what the LS is capable of on the track, in a completely safe environment, playing on public roads doesn't even sound like that much fun.
I thought the three days spent at the Bondurant driving school last year was the most fun I ever had with a car. Saturday was even better, not the least because the LS handles much better than the modified Mustangs we had at the school. And I'm not even any good at this (yet).
Sorry for the long post. This bug has bitten hard and isn't letting go. Thanks on top of thanks, Brian.
Scott
LLSOC Member
The Lexi were running in about the 65-68 second mark. The lone BMW Z-3 was cutting in at about 59-62 seconds. The Audi A-4s were in our time brackets as well.
Fastest time-of-day was a 50 second run by a National Solo 2 champion in a Ford Contour SVT.
The SCCA instructor who drove heyjewel's car thought that with a bit of familiarity he could have gotten the car down into the 57 second mark. He was quite impressed with the handling, rating it higher than the BMW 540's that he had driven at a BMW ride-and-drive event last year.
Brian
1. Jonathan was checking out the SVC supercharged LS under the hood and noticed that the new snorkel that they had rubbed the hood padding, along with a couple of points by the supercharger housing. He said that they would never be able to do that because when the cars were shipped by rail, that little amount of clearance would cause those components to punch through the hood.
2. When he drove my car, he commented that the wider offset wheels made the car a bit more tail-happy than stock, which wasn't all bad. But he did point out that while the Michelin Pilots had excellent grip, when they let go, they let go abruptly, which I knew about when I bought them. All well and good on a racetrack or if you know about it, but terrible for the average person initiating an emergency maneuver and not knowing how the car is going to react.
They design the tire specs. to accomodate the lowest common denominator and design tires that when they let go, do so smoothly and gently. I asked him jokingly "So that's to keep us from killing ourselves when we try to act like Mario Andretti on the road, isn't it?" and he just smiled and said "Yes". For the majority of drivers going to 8/10s on the street, they'll never notice the abrupt breakaway that maximum performance tires have. But when you drive at 10/10s you find out the little things.
So as quite a few of us have pointed out, including me, adding aftermarket components on a car isn't without some risk of upsetting the car's designed-in characteristics. We, the consumer, have the luxury of not worrying about production clearances, or abrupt break-away on tires, but the engineers don't. So if you plan on making changes to your LS, make sure you understand the consequences of your actions before you make the changes.
Brian
Dave, the driver, was amazing. He drove the whole course one-handed. I was surprised to see that he only lifted off the throttle to brake hard. Otherwise, it was pedal-to-the-metal the whole way. Quite unlike my own tentative approach.
Dave's time through the run I rode along for was about 53 seconds. Now consider this: the Cobra is set up for autocrossing. It was running either Hoosier or Kumho (I can't remember) autocross tires. SCCA Brian told us that the shocks on the car cost $3,000. Brian said also that the tires alone are worth 2-3 seconds. The LS, a much larger (luxury) sedan with a 114 inch wheelbase, running street tires was down near the 60 second range. I'd say the car acquitted itself quite nicely. I know that a few eyebrows were raised on Saturday. We got some priceless PR for Lincoln and the LS. Some of the regulars got a real kick out of us appearing there en masse as a club. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention here how incredibly hospitable the SoCal chapter of the SCCA was to us. They bent over backwards to make us feel at home and made a special effort to accommodate novices like myself with ride-alongs, advice and just plain goodwill. A big LLSOC thank you to them.
And oh yes, just another example of the LLSOC comeraderie we like to talk about: I was able to participate in the autocross thanks to fellow member Chris Noyes (Lolaj42) who let me use his car!
Artie
Charter member, LLSOC
I reported a couple weeks ago that my wipers had suddenly quit working. Took it to the dealership, and they diagnosed it as a bad switch (after extensive testing); since they didn't have one in stock, they had to order it. The switch, of course, isn't available by itself; to fix it they had to replace the whole turn indicator stalk.
I went back a couple days later when the stalk came in (no rain, fortunately); after installing the stalk (which required some disassembly of the steering column housing), still no wipers. After more testing, they determined that the wiper motor had conked, which in turn had fried the switch. They had a motor in stock, fortunately, & after installation I was on my way.
I talked to the tech who did the work & he explained the whole process. He also apologized profusely, as did the service writer, for taking so long to diagnose what turned out to be a relatively complex problem. During my first visit, the service writer kept me informed of the progress & even offered me a loaner to keep until the part arrived; I declined since the forecast was for no rain.
While I'd rather have not had the problem--it's the first thing that's gone wrong in 17 months of ownership--my small-town dealership treated me with courtesy, professionalism, and respect; exactly what I'd hoped for. So, thanks, La Grange (TX) FLM, for the great service!
Here's something interesting that I've noticed: Several folks (including me) have reported that the wiper stalk felt a bit "cheap"; i.e. not a very precise click when operating the turn signals. I tried the one on Andy L.'s '02 Sport, and it felt much better to me--it just seemed more robust. My new one also feels much better; I don't know if it really is, but it sure seems to have been upgraded to '02 specs. Am I dreaming, or did our LS buddies enhance this piece for MY 2002?
Now, about Mania3: I want to add my thanks to everyone for the reports; reading them certainly isn't a substitute for being there, but it allows the rest of us to vicariously enjoy the fun. Thanks, everyone, for letting us know what happened; thanks, Brian and Debbie, for doing what was obviously a marvelous job; and thanks, Lincoln folks, for allowing the LLSOC membership to continue to visit your facilities and talk to you about our favorite car. Although I've only been to one Mania (the first one), I consider these events to be one of the best perks I've ever heard of for owners of a specific vehicle. I'm on my third Lincoln, and definitely plan to make it a fourth someday. Thanks, y'all!
Note to Brian and Bruno: You guys blew it; I gave you a setup on the "curtain" question & you didn't take the swing. What you SHOULD have said was, "They let all of us look behind the curtain, and you won't BELIEVE what they had back there. Of course, we can't tell you about it."
JLinc, jealous LLSOC charter member
Well, SOMEBODY had to say it...
The red LS was a non-sport 2000. We had to look underneath to determine that it was a V6 as the hood release had been removed. HMMM...........
But, suffering through life in a Jag X-Type until the 2003 LSs come out isn't all bad. My wife has kindly agreed that we should trade off the Expedition this fall. Maybe, just mayber, I can end up with a Jag and a Lincoln in the driveway. That would be the ultimate experience.
Brunobus - the next SCCa solo in Denver is March 17. Check out www.rmsolo.org for info. If you are going to be there, I'd like to catch a ride with you and see how the LS does compared to the Jag. I never took the LS to an autocross, but it sounds like the car is a true winner in all respects. But I already knew that.
Brent
Most of the reason to not release upcoming model info is to not cannabilize the current models sitting on dealer lots. The overly hyped conversation here should kill a few badly needed LS sales for a while.
I don't think anyone of us can presume to make that decision for you. My recommendation would be to wait 2 or 3 months til the details of the new LSes are released to the automotive press and see how you feel then. At that time, you might get an even better deal on a 2002 anyway.
cb44:
I can see your point, but look at it this way, the relatively few potential LS buyers who read this list are just better informed than those who don't. Furthermore it is common knowledge in the automotive press and to anyone who reads it that the LS is getting a freshening for 2003 and it would seem to be natural to presume that it will be improved ever existing models, n'est pas?
For those who do not own an LS now, I would suggest acquiring the LS grin as soon as possible and put the savings in the bank for use on a 2005 model.
You may have missed my point. This is not a BMW vs. Lincoln thing.
BMW and all others usually attempt to keep current sales alive, even with magazines and spy shots touting future models every day (half of which they control & supply). This is the nature of the auto industry, but the lack of actual hands-on confirmation keeps things moving along closer to launch time. The difference here is potential buyers being told, "...Trying not to reveal anything, I'd DEFINITELY wait. ..".
Lincoln obviously values your club's interest in their cars, but I am willing that in these days, they also want to move some inventory right now. I wonder if someone from Lincoln would appreciate reading the gushing thanks for the recent trip and then at the same time gulp when another potential sale is pushed out many months.
"7351 of 7516 Hard Starting Update in 2001 V8 Sport by matt1972
Feb 11, 2002 (06:25 am)
Ok, here's the update on my problem:
Took the car to another dealer and had them check the fuel pressure drop for one hour. It dropped 35#. They called the tech line and replaced the "jet" fuel pump (external to the one in the tank) and the IAC motor. The pressure drop was now 45#. Called the tech line back and they said to change the fuel pressure regulator and the pump in the tank. After this, the pressure drop was only 2# in one hour. The dealer service writer was leery about the fix and told me he was keeping the ticket open on the car and to call him and let him know the status. He said the car would now start without pressing the gas. This was on Thursday, the 7th.
Drove it over the weekend with the temps in the mid 50's here in Chicago and after warming up and sitting for about an hour, it will usually start on the first turn of the key but stumbles and sounds like it wants to die and then catches and idles smoothly. Very perplexing. I can still smell the strong odor of gas when it does this.
It went back to the dealer today and we'll see what they want to do. One guy I talked to said they should check the relative injector flow test to see if an injector is randomly sticking open.
I wanted to say thanks to Scot Douglas who has been a great help in passing along valuable information.
I'll let you guys know of any updates.
Matt"
Matt, thanks for the update on your starting problem. I also ran into the rough idle and gas odor when the car was cold, but it went away once it was warmed up. I asked the dealer to look at it, but this is under open loop (?) on the computer and I had no trouble codes showing or stored.
Before I went in for the appointment, I changed my mind and told them to just change the plugs. I was told they are good for 100,000 and I had 42,000, but I told them to do it anyway. The change made a world of difference. It resolved all of the problems!
I had them save the old plugs so I could inspect them. I was surprised at the amount of leakage between the porcelain and the metal, very bad! My theory, the metal to porcelain surface would seal when the metal expanded, there by curing the problem itself.
You may want to consider the plug change and see if it improves. Here in Green Bay it cost about $125.00, so who knows how much it will cost in Chicago.
I hope this might help,
Ray
P.S. cb44, I apologize for the rush to judgement
I will let everyone know what is the outcome of my brakes...I live in Maryland...and when traffic is bad my brakes seems to scrub (like metal to metal) but once the car sits for awhile the noise goes away. The dealership will be checking that also.
The service rep. said that he would reset my message center so that my a/c filter change required message will go out. I guess i better make sure its not at 100% since i am almost at 9000 miles now.
So I guess my last question is: Is anything else I should ask/tell the dealership to check for while my car is being serviced. I am a single woman and i just dont want them to try to get over on me...again its a 2001 v-8 sport.
Thanks again for your help.
Make real sure the dealer checks the brakes, and if they have to reline them, I'd push for it to be covered under warranty since new brake pads at 8700 must indcate another problem, which they should also find and fix.
Also, scheduled maintenance every 5000 miles is **included** with every 2001/2002 LS, so you should not have to pay for oil changes, tire rotations etc. They may make you pay for this one because it's 'early' ie <5000 miles.
Finally I'd certainly always be on my toes with the service people, but I doubt they'll be trying to 'get over on you', especially while the car is under warantee. The worst thing they do, and they do it as equal-opportunity BSers, is say that there's no trouble found or works as designed or yadda yadda. Then if you're still convinced there's a problem, you gotta bring in the Lincoln commitment folks. Good luck and enjoy the car.
George
I'm wondering if, due to heavy usage, brakes wear out within the 3 year/36,000 mile coverage on 2001 & 2002 LS's, would they be changed out gratis. Anyone had this happen?
I second the opinion that if there is anything wrong with the brakes that it should be under warranty.
Well guys my Car is in the SHOP once more! Got back from MANIA III and the REVISED (2nd edition Regulator) is having problems. Rolled Down half way and that was it. Was able to roll it back up.. Also the Lighting on the Shift Console (Apparently there are two bulbs and or 2 connections) The one Iighting up the P and the + on the SST is not working) I guess they didn't Reconnect when they took out the Center Console Looking for my Clunking Noise. And Finally Noticed that my Passenger Seat(which also been taken out---The pigeon crapped on seat) had 2 Lovely scratches.
My service Rep. said he would replace both Regulators because the TSB read that way, however he said the Ford Dealer Rep. before has told the Service Manager Scott Johnson not to replace both. Ford/Lincoln needs to get their written and verbal stories aligned.
I did not take a rental today. I got a ride. It should be a short stay, I hope
Regards,
Airwolf1000
.
The LS was originally planned for sale in Europe, but that was changed. The Sport front fascia wa going to be used and was already designed when the decision was made to not sell it there.
Mark
As to the 2003 LS, no one has mentioned that the price MAY increase substantially due to certain improvements and/or options. I would read the mags and investigate 2003 ordering information in June and decide whether to order a 2003 or get what I would consider a great price on a 2002 "leftover", especially on the 2002 Manual LS which we found out is only one-half of one-percent of LS sales (I think this statistic holds true for 2000-2002 LS Manuals). A fairly elite group, as this represents a total of about 700 Manuals sold. I bet there may be quite a few Manuals in the back of some dealer's lots (especially in Southern Calif) where mine sat for at least 3 months until I rescued it. Keep in mind that George's (Heyjewel) box stock 2001 Manual may have set LS time of the day at the Mania 3 Autocross. And if you can pick one up in the very low $30,000 range, like I did, you can't go very wrong!
Here's an angle: Every month you wait to buy an LS is a month you're NOT driving an LS.:)
Scott
LLSOC Member
Came back from my overseas European vacation the other day; back to work once again:( There are alot more posts on here then when I left; I have to do a little ketchup:)
Has anybody on this board tried modifiying 9005(HB3) bulbs and using them in the low beam(HB4) housing? I wish America wasn't so strict in using E-code lamp housings instead of DOT type. The headlights in cars in Europe have way better light output in regular holagine; more distance, way better luminious, alot sharper cutoff angles on the sides of the car. Alot of cars have HID lights; about 75% of all cars have HID even the lower(cheaper)line of cars have the Xenon. We as proud Lincoln LS owners are deprived on our headlights; we should of had the option of Xenon HID or have it standard like other cars in the price range have. When the '97 Linc Mark VIII had them to the cheapest Jaguar X-Type and now even Nissans. They(Lincoln Motor Div.)should have it standard for '03 LS models to encorporate HID and have also replacement lamp housings for '00 through '02 just like the airbox from '02 can be installed and used in '00 and '01s and increase HP & TQ.
I tried alot of different bulbs from the stereo-typed blue bulbs to higher priced PIAA Platinums. I like the white light but, don't like the reduction of light from the coating of the bulb. The reason I asked if anyone did a modification to the bulb is because I read through the BMW forum and read that some people did this modification and were happy with it; I also read the same of a Jaguar XKS with equvilent results. One thing in common with the cars is that they both have projection headlight lamp housings. Anyone with any sugestions on bulbs or mods for the lights?
Speaking of airbox's; I have the ram-air set-up now in for several months and no problem at all. I been through several rainstorms with heavy rain driving through puddles, on the interstate with NO problems. I check it now and then and find some leaves in the airbox but, simply vacume them out and the filter shows absolutely NO signs of mildue or any sort of wetness. The set-up I have is taking the snorkle off, sealing off the opening with a cap I found at HomeDepot that fits perfectly. Cutting off the tab that the screw goes through that holds on the used to-be snorkle. Cutting a hole through the front center of the air-box. Opening up the hole below the the air-box in the sheetmetal with a die-grinder air-tool. Have a 90 degree 3" diam PVC that connects to the hole in the center of the air-box via duck tape and ATV black Silicon; and to the top of the opened up sheetmetal,(flange facing down towards sheetmetal). 3" diam PVC(no flange) coming from under sheetmetal to the flanged end of the previous stated 90 degree pipe. Held together by both sheetmetal and black ATV silicon. Rubber 4" to 3" diam connecting to previous stated 3" PVC pipe. Held together by stainless-steel hose clamps. 2-ply 4" diam rubber heater/blower hose cut to length running down and around twists and turns LOL! going to a 4" to 4" diam 90 degree PVC scoop held together by a stianless-steel hose-clamp. Scoop went through 5 weeks worth of sanding, boring out, several coats of primer with days in-between for drying and sanding some more; than when me and my friend thought there was enough primer on it we started on the finish which is a matte-black which is invisable to the naked eye unless noted in it's location. Oh, the rest of the weeks were on the finishing coat of the scoop. Lots of waiting for the drying process and then sanding and painting and sanding; you get the point.
All in all; the job is quility-one! and you cannot see it's location unless pointed out due to the camlafage coating. Works real well and sucks in the air(and leaves too lol). All I need now is the cat-back exhuast to finish up the vacume of the intake 2 exhaust.
Mike
http://lighting.mbz.org/faq/
I saw no responses to Joe's post. Is anyone else experiencing this problem?
The good news is that there is finally a major OEM lighting supplier manufacturing legitimate HID conversion kits with a solid warranty. The bad news is that there is no LS kit yet. So far, they've got kits for Hondas, the 97-02 Ford F-150 & Expedition, certain Chevy Silverados & Tahoes, older rectangular sealed beams and some round sealed beams. There is however, a universal auxiliary light kit, and you might want to consider that. The online price for the headlight kits is about $900. The aux. kit is $547. However, they actually encourage you to purchase from one of their authorized dealers b/c the cost is lower that way!
There's more info and a dealer directory at http://www.sylania.com. Click on HID lighting.
tlahaye-I don't remember who it was, but someone posted a while back that they had the driver's side seat cover replaced under warranty b/c of premature wear. It can't hurt to ask.
Artie
Charter member, LLSOC
3-time LS Mania attendee
Cost???
For what its worth, I also considered a cell phone holster may have worn this spot, but what Joe166 describes is precisely the wear pattern mine has.
Anyway folks, thanks for the fine advice and feedback on all my rookie questions. I'll have more----.
Tom
The wear Joe has/had, though, does seem quite premature, whether the leather was conditioned or not.
http://www.sylvania.com
This one takes you to the HID page:
http://www.sylvania.com/xenarc/prodinfo.htm
I had a '96 Mark 8 LSC which had HID lamps called "Luminarc"; they were made by Sylvania, and the "Xenarc" description sounds exactly like the lamps that the LSC had. I really liked them; the illumination was very clean, for lack of a better term, and seemed brighter than more conventional lighting. The caveat is that both of mine failed within a few weeks of each other. IIRC, the car was about 2 1/2-3 years old at the time. It was still in warranty, fortunately, so I don't know what the repair cost would've been.
I'm not trying to sway anyone; just passing along my experience. Your mileage may vary.
JLinc, LLSOC charter member
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1806982302&r=0&t=0
I STILL have the wud pieces for the upper air registers with the message center and the in-dash CD radio for anyone interested. They are REAL cheap! Can you say FREE!?!?!? Shoot me an e-mail if you're interested.
Mike
LLSOC Charter Member
I realize that this is based on a formula that the manufacture must go through in designing a car; All accessories running and the alternator must still recharge the system in X amount of time, so I guess that there might be some slack in the charging system.
The regulator gods are starting to have their comeuppance with me. I have an early build (10-99) LS Sport and I've been worried about the rear window regulators, since neither have failed in the 45,000 miles of ownership. I kind of looked forward to it, so I could get the new regulators.
Anyone who owns a LS in the north (freezing) weather knows that the windows freeze shut, but we live with it, I guess. Tonight, the first three attempts to open the drivers window failed (froze), then I heard the motor run as normal. I put the switch in the up position and bang, Kabomb. I know what I'm looking at here! Thank goodness that the window is still frozen shut!
I guess tomorrow I get to get out my heat gun (hair dryer to you none follically challenged), loosen the window and insert the cotter pin to hold the window up. So maybe I get the spammy for the first front window regulator to fail!
Ah well, I have to harass the dealer anyway, per Kevin K.'s orders. I'll just make him buy the first round of free coffee!
Thanks for thinking about me, Mike. It was a blast running with all you guys at Fontana.
Given the points that you made, I'd be VERY hesitant about adding aftermarket items that created an additional draw on the LS's system. Guess it really is time for 42 volts, but that'll open a whole new can of worms...
Note to Stan: There's been no mention of you and cones at Mania3--how'd you make out?
JLinc, LLSOC charter member
1. LS V-8, MSRP $40,740-$479/36 mo., 0 at lease signing, 0 down, 0 security deposit 12,000 miles per year.
2. LS V-8, MSRP $37,830-$499/36 mo., 500 security, $1,500 down.
3. LS (?), $2,500 rebate and 4.9% for 60 months.
4. LS V-8, FULLY LOADED, $498 mo for 36 mo., w/$498 due at signing.
My mileage is a little lower than expected too, but then I have been "enjoying" the car's features. I didn't buy this thing for fuel economy anyway.
How do I ID the rear ratio? I remember it being a code on the driver's door plate.
Glad you made it home safe & sound, Ray. And I sure am enjoying that book on Leland.
Scott
LLSOC Member
Brian
With the 3.31, speed at 3000 RPM should be about 88 MPH.
With the 3.58, speed at 3000 RPM should be about 81 MPH.
I think Brian sells laundry soap.