I agree. Ford has all the parts they need right now to build a fantastic four-door sedan or a "Cobra for Everyman". I think that even Ford has forgotten the lessons of Henry Ford concerning the economies of mass production. Just put together the 8" pumpkin with IRS outboards. Put the Aviator or Navigator 4 cam/4 valve engine in, and add VVT. These manufacturers can do more with less, for less. They make their own barriers. If you make enough of something, the R&D is almost negligible, and your costs are really materials and labor. And labor is very similar for similar parts. It costs the same to mount a shock in a Focus or a Crown Victoria. So more expensive cars usually have higher profits. They know we will pay more for more performance, even though the costs of a four cam head are not anywhere close to twice the cost of the two cam head. I get really tired of the marketing game. I'm sure the engineers are tired of designing parts for minimum cost. Everyday I have to play the "inkjet printer game". I print lots of color, and the cost of consumables, for most people, is enormous. But I found the solution through research. It's a lot harder with cars.
Would you folks tell me again (you've covered this before) what model year of the LS will have the new body design and what calendar month/year it will debut? For example: will it be a 2005 model that will be in showrooms in say, May 2004?
I bought a used Bimmer in January last year with the hope I could trade it for the new designed LS.
is that it will be the '05 model year, but when it would be released is anybody's guess. Besides the usual variables, the market at the time will influence that. The '03 has been out for several weeks now, but you'd never know it by Lincoln's advertising.
When I leased my 02 last week,I was in the dealer three times over two days and I was the one customer there each time. The sales force are so attuned to not seeing customers that you could spend a half hour on the showroom floor before anyone ever noticed you. Lots of 02 in stock and at least a half dozen 03's but no live bodies to look them over.
Because many of us have gone to the "other place". Secondly, many of the early discussions were about the teething problems that we owners were experiencing with our "first year of a new car". A lot of these problems were taken care of, so much of the discussion was put to bed. Thirdly, many of the original owners, it seems, leased their cars, and haven't yet re-upped for the still not available 2003. Therefore, discussion of the "greatly improved' version hasn't started to happen yet. Just my $0.02 worth.....
I gotta say this new format really su**s! what's the point of the 1 1/2" of blank space on either side of the page? Squishing the posts into less than half the available viewing area was devised by whom?? Someone that has stock in those cheapie reading glasses? And Edmunds wonders why we go to the unmentionable site. At least I can read those posts!
If you want to register/discuss your thoughts on the new look, there's a forum in "News & Views" called "Town Hall New Look". Just click on the "All discussions" link under "News & Views" and it'll be near the top. (Ezair: LOTS of people seem agree w/you regarding blank space.)
Airwolf: Those "message page" links ARE the scroll up/scroll down links. To scroll to the previous 20 messages, click on the "549" link, for example--very simple. Also, they've revived the feature that allows you to go directly to a specific messages. Just put #msgnum in the "search" box where "msgnum" is the message number you wish to see. It's the number that's displayed, too; you no longer have to know the semi-secret relative number to get to a specific post.
I'd gently suggest taking comments & complaints over to the forum that's established for that purpose & leaving this forum to the LS. Back to the topic at hand: Ivory Parchment is the best LS color, of course!
While my LS was the dark satin green (which is no more) it was not my first choice. Living in the desert it was always a rolling dust-ball. My first choice would be the ivory parchment. That said, I have never seen the vivid red. If it is as beautiful as I've heard, it might be my first choice.
My Fellow Texan notice it was LEADFOOT and not me that posted about the "Scroll Next 20" I am sure LEADFOOT Saw the Pages Links down at the bottom but the scroll next 20 was nicer.
BTW, I haven't posted in over 3 days, are you day dreaming about me again? If you wan't we can rendezvous at the Dallas AutoShow say in March? What do you say? I know Andy is looking to come up. Keep in touch?
Good grief, Vic--I must be COMPLETELY losing touch. If I can figure out that scrolling deal, you'd think I'd be able to read poster names, too, wouldn't you? Sheesh; I keep forgetting to take my ginko biloba, too...
I'm having lunch with Andy today; I'll mention the Dallas show to him.
It has been awhile since my last post, my front end noise appears to be fixed on the first visit. I remember reading something about a ticking noise coming from the v-8 engine and I am now hearing this from my 2002 LS V-8. Does anyone recall the cause and or the fix.
On the topic of color my car is Pearl Blue with chrome wheels and it really looks great.
Light parchment is my choice. My new one is black (I think) It hasn't been that shade since it came home from the dealer. The neighbor is adding to his home, so my new wheels have a light dusting of sawdust. This would have never shown up on the lighter car. Heck I can't even just wash it as the water spots on black. I also discovered my wheels are silver and not pewter - that's brake dust that I'd forgotten about. The black will keep me busy and I'm beginning to miss the parchment. The welcome mat is out if John or Andy want to overnight for either the Fort Worth or Dallas car show. There's a VW Fox (you know it well) and an El Camino to play with if the LS gets boring.
My '00 (obviously) is also DSG. Maybe not my first choice, but looks good when clean, and seems to be somewhat rare. I'm hip to the dust but, OTOH the cabin air filter stays clean longer because all the dust one drives through sticks to the paint instead of the filter.:)
Black would be my first choice, if I never had to actually drive the car outdoors. My next one will probably be white, or a variation of it. The ivory tri-color is gorgeous. I've always wished they'd offer more non-metallic colors.
re the new format: With apologies to present company, this reeks of a software engineer with too much time on his/her hands. Change is Good, no matter what.
I have a 2002 ls v-8, prem pac , black, polished chrome 17" wheels, loaded. although my vehicle has warping on the exterior rear quarter panels. I spoke with the body shop, how laughed and called it a Friday car. Not funny! anyway Ford says they will repair it but it will require a complete re-paint... ouch on my new car? anyone else with same problem??
not to sound condescending, but are you sure it's the quarter panel and not the rear bumper fascia? That bumper fascia wraps around the side, and covers a large portion of the car, from the wheels rearward. It's plastic, and can be a bit "wavy".
Black's beautiful, but only if you know what you're doing when it comes to care. Around here, I rarely see a black vehicle, new or old, that doesn't even look black anymore because they don't know how to wash it or keep any kind of protection on the paint.
Always use a quality wash, and most importantly, keep at least 1 or 2 coats of a good sealant or wax on the paint at all times (also on the wheels). It's important to wash about once a week too, to keep things clean and harmful crud off. Just always make sure to do any washing or polishing in the shade, and always in light, straight lines with no sponges or old rags. NO CAR WASHES, either. Our past two vehicles have been black and we'll probably never buy anything else, but then again, I am a detailer on the side!
My LS is a 2002 Ceramic White with light parchment interior. She is such a pretty baby! I had a little trouble finding a white one. We went looking a little late in the year, I guess. I have a confession I must make, tho. Saw a red T Bird being unloaded at the local Ford Dealer. Had to go check it out. All I can say is... OH MY!! I wouldn't give up my LS, but if I ever hit the lottery......it would surely be sharing the garage.
As a detailer, have you ever used a clay bar to remove blemishes in clearcoat? My 02 LS has tiny black specks in the paint, can feel them more than see them. Wax with cleaner removed some of them, but I had to get more aggressive with rubbing than I would like.(would rather have specks than scratches) The car probably sat on the dealer's lot from day one until I bought it, and particles must be embedded in the paint. (not a real fan of clearcoat) Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
I'd have to be pretty unhappy with a "wave" in the quarter panel, assuming it's not the bumper cover, before I'd sign on for a total repaint. I doubt the repaint will be as durable or look as good as the factory paint. The body shop will tell you differently, don't believe them.
I clayed my LS after taking it home from the dealer as there was a ton of crud in and on the paint. The clay gets 95% of it off and leaves a nice surface for waxing.
Silver Frost (00 sport), with dark charcoal intertior, is tough to beat. I favor this color every time. Black is beatiful but the silver doesn't show the dust. LS's are lookers, Lincoln designed a great looking auto.
If it turns out to be the bumper cover, check out bumpers.com. I've seen two '00s that had their bumper covers installed. They came from the factory already painted and were perfect matches.
I own a detailing shop and I see these types of spots almost daily. Without seeing the car for myself and since you say there are BLACK spots on the car I would suspect that they are either specks of tar picked up from normal driving or, if you park under trees, they are anal statements made by the aphids and other bugs whose homes are above the car. EIther of these two are an organic dirt, as opposed to inorganic or petroleum type soilings. These will most effectively be removed by using an alkaline based cleaner, i.e. Dawn dishwashing soap or a good tar & bug cleaner that any auto parts store has in stock. Just remember these cleaners will also remove any wax you have on the car so you WILL have to rewax.
Clay is good for removing rail dust, brake dust and other types of particles that can imbed themselves into the paint. If you have never clayed the car before I would highly recommend doing so.
Anyway I would email you the procedure we use at my shop (it is far too long to post here). If you want it just email me, I checked your user's profile but you chose not to include your email address, and feel free to ask any further questions you may have, this also applies to anyone on this board, I will happily answer any questions you have.
I am going to attempt to post the procedure we use but it will take several posts due to Edmunds limit on the length of a post. So here goes:
FIRST, wash the entire car with Dawn dish washing soap. The reason for using Dawn is that it is very alkaline and will remove any wax that may be on the car, regardless of whether it is a natural carnauba wax or a polymer like Zaino. Use a wash mitt for this, I prefer a wool mitt but a 100% cotton one will suffice. Do not use a bath towel, it’s just that a wool wash mitt has longer fibers that will draw the dirt particles away from the surface of the paint up into its matt rather than drag the particles across the paint causing minute scratches (as cotton towels tend to do). Rinse from top down using a low pressure, high volume water source. At my shop we use plant watering wands which can be easy acquired at nurseries and most larger chain stores (i.e. Wal-Mart, Kmart, Franks Nursery & Crafts, etc.) however removing the nozzle from a garden hose and allowing the water to flow unhindered from the hose is just as good. The FIRST RULE of detailing is that it is impossible to use too much water to rinse a car. All of the soap must be removed and using copious amounts of water is the only sure way of removing it all.
SECOND, clay the car. Washing alone is not enough as there are several types of contaminates that will be imbedded in the paint and soap is ineffective against these. Paint contamination consists of tiny metal shavings from rail dust, brake dust and industrial fallout. This contamination affects all paint finishes and can cause serious damage when left untreated. Paint contamination can be felt as a "rough or gritty" texture on the paint's surface and can lead to tiny rust spots. This contamination cannot be removed by washing, waxing and/or polishing. There are three major causes of paint contamination: 1. Rail dust - produced from the friction of train wheels against railroad tracks. Over 70% of new vehicles are shipped by rail. Rail dust can contaminate a new car's finish before it even reaches the dealership. Anytime a vehicle is parked or travels near a railroad it is subject to rail dust contamination. 2. Brake dust - particles produced from the friction of brake pads rubbing against the rotor. This metal on metal friction disperses tiny particles of bare metal into the air and on the highway where it collects on passing vehicles. 3. Industrial fallout - another word for pollution, industrial fallout is a byproduct of our modern industrial age. Some automotive manufacturers now cover vehicles with plastic coverings during rail transportation. Unfortunately, this plastic only covers 40% to 60% of the vehicle and many vehicles are still transported with no covers. There is no wax, natural or synthetic, or any chemical treatment that can prevent or protect against this contamination. The solution to this problem was a special clay bar that was developed in Japan nearly five years ago. This is a special type of clay similar to “Silly Putty” that was initially designed for body shops to remove paint over spray. When these clay bars were brought to the United States several other usages were found for them. Clay bars were found to be effective for removing over spray, tree sap, acid rain & water spots and a variety of other surface contaminants mentioned above. This clay safely removes rail dust and industrial fallout by "pulling" it off the surface much as one pulls weeds from a garden. The latest evolution in this technology is clay-like bars that are made of entirely man made polymers. These bars perform all the functions of traditional clay bars but have a number of advantages: they will not dry out with age, they do not decompose with repeated applications, is easier to work with as it pulls, stretches and refolds easier than normal clay and finally they leave almost no residue on the surface making clean-up much easier.
How to do it: Clay bars should always be used on freshly washed, clean surfaces. Dirt on the surface could cause scratches. Always use a lubricant with the clay bar. If a lubricant is not supplied with the bar you can use a solution of 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of car wash shampoo in a spray bottle filled with water. Work on areas about three square feet. Lightly mist the surface with the lubricant. Place the clay bar in the palm of your hand and rub it across the lubricated area using moderate pressure. (Hard rubbing is not required) You should feel a slight grabbing at first. As you rub, the bar should glide smoothly over the surface. When the bar moves freely you are done. Wipe the surface with a clean dry 100% cotton towel and continue in sections until the entire vehicle is complete. I recommend Canon or Fieldcrest towels. Note: use only Made in the USA towels; no I am not anti-globalization, its just that foreign governments do not require towels labeled as 100% cotton to be so, they may contain 2-4% polyester threads used to sew the ends of the towel and this polyester will scratch the paint. Don’t take the chance. As the bar becomes soiled, simply pull, stretch and refold to expose a new, clean side. When the bar becomes totally soiled (dark colored) discard it. A 2 oz. bar should clean at least 5 to 7 cars. Never use a bar that has been dropped on the ground as it will pick up the dirt and this will cause nicely scratched paint. Upon completion, spray the bar with lubricant and store in an airtight container or zip-lock storage bag. After claying, the surface should be as smooth as glass. Remove any remaining smudges by rewashing and dry the car. We dry cars by initially using a California Water Blade to remove 90% of the water. Next we use a synthetic chamois, do not use a natural chamois as a small portion of the acids used in the tanning process will remain and one essentially will be applying a weak acid solution to the surface of the paint – not a good idea. Finally a leaf blower will remove the water that remained in all those crevasses untouched by the chamois.
For a good explanation of clay and how it works go to: http://www.erazer.com/prod01.htm Recommendations (in order of my preference): Pinnacle PolyClay, Erazer, Zaino Clay Bar, Clay Magic.
THIRD, now that the paint is totally clean it is time to protect it against the onslaughts of the environment. Most car manufacturers’ paint is only .004 - .006 inches thick, which means it will not take much to make it deteriorate and appear dull. Sunlight (especially UV Rays), atmospheric contaminates, bird droppings, insect guts and road salts and tars all wage war on your car’s paint. The way to prevent this mischief is to protect the paint by applying a sacrificial layer to it thus giving all those Nasties something else to attack, something that is easily and inexpensively replaceable. This is the job of a wax/sealant. There are two main types: natural Carnauba waxes and synthetic polymers and acrylics. Carnauba comes from a tree native to Brazil and is nature’s hardest and most transparent wax. This wax produces what is described as a deeper, richer “three-dimensional” shine. These waxes are also what most car show enthusiasts use. My personal favorite carnauba wax is Pinnacle Souveran; it is somewhat expensive, not nearly as much a Zymol, but well worth it. On the negative side carnauba waxes do not last very long, 30 - 60 days maximum before the environment has consumed it all. It will melt around 100 degrees F, a temperature easily attained if a car is left in direct sun for an hour or longer. Additionally, it will occasionally streak if humidity and temperature conditions are right (German paints are more susceptible to this than others, although I do not know why). Synthetics are man made, molecule by molecule, to have the desired properties. In a certain respect they are “designer” waxes. Top quality sealants usually last at least 6 months and are very easy to apply and wipe off. They create a very intense shine because of their superior transparency, for example Zaino says its Show Car Polish is 99.9% optically perfect; they are also cloudy and streak resistant. Some purists say synthetics lack the depth of shine of a carnauba wax and as such they seem a bit sterile. From personal experience with Zaino, which I use on my own cars, I can say that one better be wearing welder’s goggles on if looking at black paint on a cloudless day! My personal cars have 4 coats of Zaino Show car Polish as a gloss base and 2 coats of Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax on top to add depth and a wet look, but then I HAVE to have the ultimate shine to attract customers. For an everyday driver car 2-3 coats of either wax will be adequate.
How To: Always work in the shade; direct sun will dry the wax to quickly and make it difficult to impossible to remove the excess. Using a closed cell foam applicator apply the wax to a 2- 4 square foot area at a time, even if the product says the entire car can be done at once DON’T. Follow the instructions as to whether to allow the product to dry/haze before removal/buffing. Use a small amount of wax and rub it in well. Using too much wastes wax, time and one’s arm. On horizontal surfaces use a front-to-back motion, on vertical panels use an up-and-down one. This is because swirl marks result from circular motions which make fine scratches; these are most easily seen when viewed at 90 degrees to the scratch. By using the motions described above one will greatly reduce the chance off viewing the car at these angles. Buff out with a 100% cotton towel. I find old flannel bed sheets to be perfect: they produce a fantastic shine and it gives the wife an excuse to go shopping for new bedding; it is truly a win-win endeavor. A power buffer is not necessary. Arm power is more than adequate, power just permits finishing faster not better. If a powered buffer is desired I recommend the Porter Cable 7424 Dual Action Polisher, it is good for the non-professional as it does not rotate fast enough to “burn” or remove the paint. After waxing the paint should be smudge and streak free, and be slick and smooth to the touch. If there are visible streaks (what other kind are there?) allow the car to sit in the sun for 10-15 minutes then take it back into the shade and using distilled water spritz a small area and buff out to a clear high gloss. If distilled water is unavailable any good detailing spray will do as a substitute.
After all this effort one should have a car that will be the envy of the neighborhood. But how to maintain it? At least weekly wash the car but never use dish soap again as we do not want to remove the wax we just spent so much time applying. Use a good quality car shampoo as these are gentle on paint, plastic and rubber but strong enough to remove surface grime. Pinnacle Bodywork Shampoo is my all time favorite with P21S Total Auto Wash a distant second. Dilute the P21S, since it is a strong citrus cleaner using it full strength can remove wax.
How To: Work in the shade so the sun will not dry the soap on the car causing water spots. The car should be cool enough that placing one’s hand on the car will not cause discomfort. If possible park on a slight incline to aid in water run off. Wash the wheels and tires first. Modern wheels frequently are a cleaning challenge because as one uses the brakes to slow/stop the car heated dust particles from the pads bombard the wheels and literally bake into the finish, regardless of whether that finish is a clear coat paint, chrome or polished aluminum. If these particles are left on the wheel galvanic corrosion will set in and ruin the finish. Unfortunately most car wash soaps are not strong enough to break the bond between the brake dust, road tars and grime that are being applied on a daily basis. So we are left asking what can one use that will remove whatever has been building up layer by layer upon one's wheels. There are two basic categories of wheel cleaners: acid based and acid free. Which you use will be determined by how long it has been since the wheels have been cleaned (how much dirt the cleaner must cut through) and how fast you want the cleaning to occur. Acid based cleaners are widely used by detailers such as myself who need to remove all the "gunk" as quickly as possible and with the least amount of effort. These are typically 2% solutions of oxalic, phosphoric and hydrochloric acid. Eagle One All Finish Wheel Cleaner is one example of an acid based cleaner that can be found in many auto parts stores. While these types of cleaners pack the most cleaning "punch" they can easily etch the finish if allowed to dry on the wheel. Rinse them off QUICKLY. Also, avoid acid based cleaners if there is ANY pitting or chipped surfaces as the acid will migrate into them and speed up the flaking and peeling process.
Acid free cleaners are mild solutions of an alkaline solvent, usually ethylene glycol, along with a wetting agent. These solutions creep under the brake dust and gently loosen and lift it off the wheel's surface. Non-acidic cleaners will require a wheel brush or sponge and some elbow grease, but are MUCH safer to use as they absolutely are incapable of etching the wheel. IMHO, P21S offers the best 100% acid free cleaners ranging from mild (P21S) to moderate (P21S Gel). I use P21S on my own vehicles, but then I wash them every 3-4 days. Eimann Fabrik makes a "Professional Strength" product, but since I have no personal experience with it I can't say anything about its effectiveness. There are many tire dressings on the market, which you choose will be determined by what kind of shine you want. Here are some suggested products: Matte Finish 303 Aerospace Protectant Satin Finish Pinnacle Rubber and Vinyl Protectant Eagle One Satin Finish Tire Shine Gloss Finish Lexol Vinylex Eimann Fabrik Black Opal When finished throw out the wash water and refill. There is no reason to use dirty water to wash the rest of the car, chances are you would be applying more dirt than is being removed.
Wash the car with a good shampoo. Look for one that contains natural conditioners and oils to act as a lubricant preventing dirt particles from scratching the paint. As above use a good wool or cotton wash mitt to pull the dirt away from the paint. Wash from the top down and rinse often, remember the first rule of detailing. The oils in the shampoo will form a film on the car if not completely removed by the rinse. If there are insect remains or road tar that even the P21S Total Auto Wash will not remove try 3M Tar & Grease Remover or any Tar remover sold in auto parts stores. Note: These frequently are solvent based and the area will need to be rewaxed. Dry as above. I also recommend using a detailing spray to help maintain the shine. There are several available just be certain to use one that is compatible with the type of wax you have chosen.
Finally, here are some recommended web sites: http://www.properautocare.com (my favorite, good variety, lots of good info)
Just to increase the # of posts on the LS board I was just curious... what level do you owners usually play the CD system when you're on the interstate?
I just rented another LS and I play mine about at the sixth full line; would that be excessive on the hearing?
(Typing this at a pit stop. It's back to on the road again)
That would seem pretty loud, but probably not excessive. BUT, do you have the speed-sensitive volume function activated, and on what level? That could make a lot of difference without it showing on the volume display.
Even though I added an amp (the volume adjustments on the amp are all the way down), I usually run about 3 1/2 bars. I have the speed volume set at 4. At a meeting of the unmentionables, I turned the radio up to about 3/4 volume. That was enough for a good headache! And with my updated speakers, no distortion. Although "Boston" at that volume does sound nice.
Wasn't that a TV show in the early '60s with Robert Stack? No, wait, that was something else . . .
no1trust, in case we're losing you, check out the owner's manual next time you get a chance. The LS has a variable setting that will adjust the stereo volume up or down with the speed of the car.
but I think that speed-sensitive volume control only comes with the "Audiophile" Alpine system upgrade. I don't think the standard LS system has that capability.
but mine does. '00 non-Audiophile Alpine system, in dash cassette, CD changer in the glove box. IIRC there was only one system lower on the pecking order, and it lacked the CD changer.
All 6 radios have it. My LS came without the cd changer, cassette only. I had my dealer add it as part of the deal. That's why I have the changer in the trunk and my OM (and not too much else)in the apptly named glove box.
New 02 LS V* with less than 1k. On the road this weekend. Hear a faint "thumping" sound (hard to describe) at all speeds but hear better when slowing down(foot off gas) through 60>50>45 with no brake. Wheel steady, no shake, car also steady. Sounds like tire but without shake couldn't be sure. Very faint but recognizable. Just traded 00 LS V6 and never heard similar sound. Any help appreciated
Anyone have experience with exhaust fumes inside pass cabin. If so what was the cause? I think its from engine compartment, when I turn off climate control its not a bad. Happens when idling or when starting a warm car.
fokrab - definitely sounds like a tire. Does it change with the vehicle speed?
avlv - I don't remember hearing that problem before. It sounds like an exhaust leak. You should be able to hear it if you listen closely outside the car. I think early models also had a problem with cracked exhaust manifold on the passenger side - symptom was a ticking sound when cold. Be careful - if it is exhaust then it's very dangerous. If you have to drive it keep it well ventilated and if you start to feel sick get out. Get it to the dealer asap.
the first post was made on the topic of the Lincoln LS. Since then, twelve parts of the topic were generated on the old WE software, followed by the 11,000+ posts in the current discussion. Something on the order of 20,150 posts have been made as of today. It took eight months to gather the first 600 posts (when part I was closed and a part II opened by L8Apex), and from about Nov 1 of ’02 to do the most recent 600. The board isn’t as dead as when it was when it started. . .yet.
Back between late September of ’00 and the middle of October ‘00, 764 posts were accumulated in 21 days, a rate of over 36 per day. That was when the LS was new, there wasn’t a G35 or a CTS, and any number of other competitors were less well developed. From late August ‘02 to the end of the year, the rate was down to about seven a day, and there were days on end without a single post.
As many who read regularly know, most of the old-timers who care have migrated to another board for their day-to-day discussions, but it’s interesting to speculate on what has happened to the completely green prospects who are looking for a sport sedan. Maybe there are fewer of them, given the economy, or maybe they’re going elsewhere, or maybe they don’t post on Edmunds.
Anyway, happy anniversary to anyone else who’s read all 20K+ posts. The nameless board is up to 19,654 posts, so it’ll be passing Edmunds any day now. All that said, this board has brought me a lot of knowledge and the opportunity to meet some really interesting people. Thank you.
I’ll be more than interested in seeing where we are four years hence with the LS.
That was a very interesting collection of information, thanks.
As a charter member and officer of that "other club", I will not forget where all this started... right here. This whole new kind of car enthusiast experience has been made possible by the Internet, Edmunds, Lincoln, and you all.
I remember when I first came aimlessly wondering in here somewhere around post 1,000 looking for info on this new car Lincoln was making.
I heartily congradulate one of the "founding father's", the progenitor, of all of the wonderful-things-LS that are yet to come.
I've only been regular here for a little over two years, but I did read each and every post right after I bought my LS. Even the infamous engine design "discussion" that made me glad to own a V8. This remains one of the most informative and civil discussions to be found anywhere. I've learned a lot and made some friends, & hope to do more of both.
Back to the topic: fokrab, I'm with Allen; gotta be a tire.
I wandered in around the end of May 99 - ordered my LS in August and was driving by November. Best decision I ever made was NOT getting that Mustang GT convertible. Now the 2005 DEW98 based 400 hp mustang may be a different story.......
..a couple of days ago, and Corporate still has the 2002 on the site, not the 2003. It's already late January of 2003. Most of the other new models have been in showrooms for 2-3 months. My local L-M dealers' website shows a few 2002s left, but no 2003s. What's up with all of this?? Is the 2003 LS destined to be like the 1983 Corvette?? In other words, a "skipped year"?
Comments
I think that even Ford has forgotten the lessons of Henry Ford concerning the economies of mass production.
Just put together the 8" pumpkin with IRS outboards. Put the Aviator or Navigator 4 cam/4 valve engine in, and add VVT.
These manufacturers can do more with less, for less.
They make their own barriers.
If you make enough of something, the R&D is almost negligible, and your costs are really materials and labor.
And labor is very similar for similar parts. It costs the same to mount a shock in a Focus or a Crown Victoria. So more expensive cars usually have higher profits.
They know we will pay more for more performance, even though the costs of a four cam head are not anywhere close to twice the cost of the two cam head.
I get really tired of the marketing game.
I'm sure the engineers are tired of designing parts for minimum cost.
Everyday I have to play the "inkjet printer game". I print lots of color, and the cost of consumables, for most people, is enormous. But I found the solution through research.
It's a lot harder with cars.
I bought a used Bimmer in January last year with the hope I could trade it for the new designed LS.
Lots of 02 in stock and at least a half dozen 03's but no live bodies to look them over.
There aren't many. I think the board just went about four days with nothing new. Much like the Audi A6 board.
Makes you proud, doesn't it?
Thirdly, many of the original owners, it seems, leased their cars, and haven't yet re-upped for the still not available 2003.
Therefore, discussion of the "greatly improved' version hasn't started to happen yet. Just my $0.02 worth.....
Three posts on this topic today! We're really cookin' now!!
Pat, are you there??
Airwolf: Those "message page" links ARE the scroll up/scroll down links. To scroll to the previous 20 messages, click on the "549" link, for example--very simple. Also, they've revived the feature that allows you to go directly to a specific messages. Just put #msgnum in the "search" box where "msgnum" is the message number you wish to see. It's the number that's displayed, too; you no longer have to know the semi-secret relative number to get to a specific post.
I'd gently suggest taking comments & complaints over to the forum that's established for that purpose & leaving this forum to the LS. Back to the topic at hand: Ivory Parchment is the best LS color, of course!
more) it was not my first choice. Living in the desert it was always a rolling dust-ball. My first choice would be the ivory parchment. That said, I have never seen the vivid red. If it is as beautiful as I've heard, it might be my first choice.
My Fellow Texan notice it was LEADFOOT and not me that posted about the "Scroll Next 20" I am sure LEADFOOT Saw the Pages Links down at the bottom but the scroll next 20 was nicer.
BTW, I haven't posted in over 3 days, are you day dreaming about me again?
XOXO
Airwolf1000
P.S. I just had to do it!
I'm having lunch with Andy today; I'll mention the Dallas show to him.
Cheers & sorry for the booboo,
JLinc
(And please note - the hosts had NOTHING to do with this change! heh)
On the topic of color my car is Pearl Blue with chrome wheels and it really looks great.
It hasn't been that shade since it came home from the dealer. The neighbor is adding to his home, so my new wheels have a light dusting of sawdust. This would have never shown up on the lighter car. Heck I can't even just wash it as the water spots on black.
I also discovered my wheels are silver and not pewter - that's brake dust that I'd forgotten about. The black will keep me busy and I'm beginning to miss the parchment.
The welcome mat is out if John or Andy want to overnight for either the Fort Worth or Dallas car show. There's a VW Fox (you know it well) and an El Camino to play with if the LS gets boring.
Black would be my first choice, if I never had to actually drive the car outdoors. My next one will probably be white, or a variation of it. The ivory tri-color is gorgeous. I've always wished they'd offer more non-metallic colors.
re the new format: With apologies to present company, this reeks of a software engineer with too much time on his/her hands. Change is Good, no matter what.
Always use a quality wash, and most importantly, keep at least 1 or 2 coats of a good sealant or wax on the paint at all times (also on the wheels). It's important to wash about once a week too, to keep things clean and harmful crud off. Just always make sure to do any washing or polishing in the shade, and always in light, straight lines with no sponges or old rags. NO CAR WASHES, either. Our past two vehicles have been black and we'll probably never buy anything else, but then again, I am a detailer on the side!
I clayed my LS after taking it home from the dealer as there was a ton of crud in and on the paint. The clay gets 95% of it off and leaves a nice surface for waxing.
Clay is good for removing rail dust, brake dust and other types of particles that can imbed themselves into the paint. If you have never clayed the car before I would highly recommend doing so.
Anyway I would email you the procedure we use at my shop (it is far too long to post here). If you want it just email me, I checked your user's profile but you chose not to include your email address, and feel free to ask any further questions you may have, this also applies to anyone on this board, I will happily answer any questions you have.
FIRST, wash the entire car with Dawn dish washing soap. The reason for using Dawn is that it is very alkaline and will remove any wax that may be on the car, regardless of whether it is a natural carnauba wax or a polymer like Zaino. Use a wash mitt for this, I prefer a wool mitt but a 100% cotton one will suffice. Do not use a bath towel, it’s just that a wool wash mitt has longer fibers that will draw the dirt particles away from the surface of the paint up into its matt rather than drag the particles across the paint causing minute scratches (as cotton towels tend to do). Rinse from top down using a low pressure, high volume water source. At my shop we use plant watering wands which can be easy acquired at nurseries and most larger chain stores (i.e. Wal-Mart, Kmart, Franks Nursery & Crafts, etc.) however removing the nozzle from a garden hose and allowing the water to flow unhindered from the hose is just as good. The FIRST RULE of detailing is that it is impossible to use too much water to rinse a car. All of the soap must be removed and using copious amounts of water is the only sure way of removing it all.
SECOND, clay the car. Washing alone is not enough as there are several types of contaminates that will be imbedded in the paint and soap is ineffective against these. Paint contamination consists of tiny metal shavings from rail dust, brake dust and industrial fallout. This contamination affects all paint finishes and can cause serious damage when left untreated. Paint contamination can be felt as a "rough or gritty" texture on the paint's surface and can lead to tiny rust spots. This contamination cannot be removed by washing, waxing and/or polishing. There are three major causes of paint contamination:
1. Rail dust - produced from the friction of train wheels against railroad tracks. Over 70% of new vehicles are shipped by rail. Rail dust can contaminate a new car's finish before it even reaches the dealership. Anytime a vehicle is parked or travels near a railroad it is subject to rail dust contamination.
2. Brake dust - particles produced from the friction of brake pads rubbing against the rotor. This metal on metal friction disperses tiny particles of bare metal into the air and on the highway where it collects on passing vehicles.
3. Industrial fallout - another word for pollution, industrial fallout is a byproduct of our modern industrial age.
Some automotive manufacturers now cover vehicles with plastic coverings during rail transportation. Unfortunately, this plastic only covers 40% to 60% of the vehicle and many vehicles are still transported with no covers. There is no wax, natural or synthetic, or any chemical treatment that can prevent or protect against this contamination.
The solution to this problem was a special clay bar that was developed in Japan nearly five years ago. This is a special type of clay similar to “Silly Putty” that was initially designed for body shops to remove paint over spray. When these clay bars were brought to the United States several other usages were found for them. Clay bars were found to be effective for removing over spray, tree sap, acid rain & water spots and a variety of other surface contaminants mentioned above. This clay safely removes rail dust and industrial fallout by "pulling" it off the surface much as one pulls weeds from a garden.
The latest evolution in this technology is clay-like bars that are made of entirely man made polymers. These bars perform all the functions of traditional clay bars but have a number of advantages: they will not dry out with age, they do not decompose with repeated applications, is easier to work with as it pulls, stretches and refolds easier than normal clay and finally they leave almost no residue on the surface making clean-up much easier.
How to do it:
Clay bars should always be used on freshly washed, clean surfaces. Dirt on the surface could cause scratches. Always use a lubricant with the clay bar. If a lubricant is not supplied with the bar you can use a solution of 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of car wash shampoo in a spray bottle filled with water. Work on areas about three square feet. Lightly mist the surface with the lubricant. Place the clay bar in the palm of your hand and rub it across the lubricated area using moderate pressure. (Hard rubbing is not required) You should feel a slight grabbing at first. As you rub, the bar should glide smoothly over the surface. When the bar moves freely you are done. Wipe the surface with a clean dry 100% cotton towel and continue in sections until the entire vehicle is complete. I recommend Canon or Fieldcrest towels. Note: use only Made in the USA towels; no I am not anti-globalization, its just that foreign governments do not require towels labeled as 100% cotton to be so, they may contain 2-4% polyester threads used to sew the ends of the towel and this polyester will scratch the paint. Don’t take the chance.
As the bar becomes soiled, simply pull, stretch and refold to expose a new, clean side. When the bar becomes totally soiled (dark colored) discard it. A 2 oz. bar should clean at least 5 to 7 cars. Never use a bar that has been dropped on the ground as it will pick up the dirt and this will cause nicely scratched paint. Upon completion, spray the bar with lubricant and store in an airtight container or zip-lock storage bag. After claying, the surface should be as smooth as glass. Remove any remaining smudges by rewashing and dry the car. We dry cars by initially using a California Water Blade to remove 90% of the water. Next we use a synthetic chamois, do not use a natural chamois as a small portion of the acids used in the tanning process will remain and one essentially will be applying a weak acid solution to the surface of the paint – not a good idea. Finally a leaf blower will remove the water that remained in all those crevasses untouched by the chamois.
For a good explanation of clay and how it works go to:
http://www.erazer.com/prod01.htm
Recommendations (in order of my preference): Pinnacle PolyClay, Erazer, Zaino Clay Bar, Clay Magic.
Carnauba comes from a tree native to Brazil and is nature’s hardest and most transparent wax. This wax produces what is described as a deeper, richer “three-dimensional” shine. These waxes are also what most car show enthusiasts use. My personal favorite carnauba wax is Pinnacle Souveran; it is somewhat expensive, not nearly as much a Zymol, but well worth it. On the negative side carnauba waxes do not last very long, 30 - 60 days maximum before the environment has consumed it all. It will melt around 100 degrees F, a temperature easily attained if a car is left in direct sun for an hour or longer. Additionally, it will occasionally streak if humidity and temperature conditions are right (German paints are more susceptible to this than others, although I do not know why).
Synthetics are man made, molecule by molecule, to have the desired properties. In a certain respect they are “designer” waxes. Top quality sealants usually last at least 6 months and are very easy to apply and wipe off. They create a very intense shine because of their superior transparency, for example Zaino says its Show Car Polish is 99.9% optically perfect; they are also cloudy and streak resistant. Some purists say synthetics lack the depth of shine of a carnauba wax and as such they seem a bit sterile. From personal experience with Zaino, which I use on my own cars, I can say that one better be wearing welder’s goggles on if looking at black paint on a cloudless day!
My personal cars have 4 coats of Zaino Show car Polish as a gloss base and 2 coats of Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax on top to add depth and a wet look, but then I HAVE to have the ultimate shine to attract customers. For an everyday driver car 2-3 coats of either wax will be adequate.
How To:
Always work in the shade; direct sun will dry the wax to quickly and make it difficult to impossible to remove the excess. Using a closed cell foam applicator apply the wax to a 2- 4 square foot area at a time, even if the product says the entire car can be done at once DON’T. Follow the instructions as to whether to allow the product to dry/haze before removal/buffing. Use a small amount of wax and rub it in well. Using too much wastes wax, time and one’s arm. On horizontal surfaces use a front-to-back motion, on vertical panels use an up-and-down one. This is because swirl marks result from circular motions which make fine scratches; these are most easily seen when viewed at 90 degrees to the scratch. By using the motions described above one will greatly reduce the chance off viewing the car at these angles. Buff out with a 100% cotton towel. I find old flannel bed sheets to be perfect: they produce a fantastic shine and it gives the wife an excuse to go shopping for new bedding; it is truly a win-win endeavor. A power buffer is not necessary. Arm power is more than adequate, power just permits finishing faster not better. If a powered buffer is desired I recommend the Porter Cable 7424 Dual Action Polisher, it is good for the non-professional as it does not rotate fast enough to “burn” or remove the paint.
After waxing the paint should be smudge and streak free, and be slick and smooth to the touch. If there are visible streaks (what other kind are there?) allow the car to sit in the sun for 10-15 minutes then take it back into the shade and using distilled water spritz a small area and buff out to a clear high gloss. If distilled water is unavailable any good detailing spray will do as a substitute.
After all this effort one should have a car that will be the envy of the neighborhood. But how to maintain it? At least weekly wash the car but never use dish soap again as we do not want to remove the wax we just spent so much time applying. Use a good quality car shampoo as these are gentle on paint, plastic and rubber but strong enough to remove surface grime. Pinnacle Bodywork Shampoo is my all time favorite with P21S Total Auto Wash a distant second. Dilute the P21S, since it is a strong citrus cleaner using it full strength can remove wax.
How To:
Work in the shade so the sun will not dry the soap on the car causing water spots. The car should be cool enough that placing one’s hand on the car will not cause discomfort. If possible park on a slight incline to aid in water run off.
Wash the wheels and tires first. Modern wheels frequently are a cleaning challenge because as one uses the brakes to slow/stop the car heated dust particles from the pads bombard the wheels and literally bake into the finish, regardless of whether that finish is a clear coat paint, chrome or polished aluminum. If these particles are left on the wheel galvanic corrosion will set in and ruin the finish. Unfortunately most car wash soaps are not strong enough to break the bond between the brake dust, road tars and grime that are being applied on a daily basis. So we are left asking what can one use that will remove whatever has been building up layer by layer upon one's wheels. There are two basic categories of wheel cleaners: acid based and acid free. Which you use will be determined by how long it has been since the wheels have been cleaned (how much dirt the cleaner must cut through) and how fast you want the cleaning to occur.
Acid based cleaners are widely used by detailers such as myself who need to remove all the "gunk" as quickly as possible and with the least amount of effort. These are typically 2% solutions of oxalic, phosphoric and hydrochloric acid. Eagle One All Finish Wheel Cleaner is one example of an acid based cleaner that can be found in many auto parts stores. While these types of cleaners pack the most cleaning "punch" they can easily etch the finish if allowed to dry on the wheel. Rinse them off QUICKLY. Also, avoid acid based cleaners if there is ANY pitting or chipped surfaces as the acid will migrate into them and speed up the flaking and peeling process.
There are many tire dressings on the market, which you choose will be determined by what kind of shine you want. Here are some suggested products:
Matte Finish 303 Aerospace Protectant
Satin Finish Pinnacle Rubber and Vinyl Protectant
Eagle One Satin Finish Tire Shine
Gloss Finish Lexol Vinylex
Eimann Fabrik Black Opal
When finished throw out the wash water and refill. There is no reason to use dirty water to wash the rest of the car, chances are you would be applying more dirt than is being removed.
Wash the car with a good shampoo. Look for one that contains natural conditioners and oils to act as a lubricant preventing dirt particles from scratching the paint. As above use a good wool or cotton wash mitt to pull the dirt away from the paint. Wash from the top down and rinse often, remember the first rule of detailing. The oils in the shampoo will form a film on the car if not completely removed by the rinse. If there are insect remains or road tar that even the P21S Total Auto Wash will not remove try 3M Tar & Grease Remover or any Tar remover sold in auto parts stores. Note: These frequently are solvent based and the area will need to be rewaxed.
Dry as above. I also recommend using a detailing spray to help maintain the shine. There are several available just be certain to use one that is compatible with the type of wax you have chosen.
Finally, here are some recommended web sites:
http://www.properautocare.com (my favorite, good variety, lots of good info)
http://www.premiumautocare.com (limited product line, 4-star line of waxes)
http://www.zainobros.com
http://www.carcareonline.com
http://www.pinnaclewax.com/
http://www.lexol.com/
Please feel free to email me, my address is in my profile, and I will respond.
Keep those LSes looking good!
I just rented another LS and I play mine about at the sixth full line; would that be excessive on the hearing?
(Typing this at a pit stop. It's back to on the road again)
no1trust, in case we're losing you, check out the owner's manual next time you get a chance. The LS has a variable setting that will adjust the stereo volume up or down with the speed of the car.
avlv - I don't remember hearing that problem before. It sounds like an exhaust leak. You should be able to hear it if you listen closely outside the car. I think early models also had a problem with cracked exhaust manifold on the passenger side - symptom was a ticking sound when cold. Be careful - if it is exhaust then it's very dangerous. If you have to drive it keep it well ventilated and if you start to feel sick get out. Get it to the dealer asap.
Back between late September of ’00 and the middle of October ‘00, 764 posts were accumulated in 21 days, a rate of over 36 per day. That was when the LS was new, there wasn’t a G35 or a CTS, and any number of other competitors were less well developed. From late August ‘02 to the end of the year, the rate was down to about seven a day, and there were days on end without a single post.
As many who read regularly know, most of the old-timers who care have migrated to another board for their day-to-day discussions, but it’s interesting to speculate on what has happened to the completely green prospects who are looking for a sport sedan. Maybe there are fewer of them, given the economy, or maybe they’re going elsewhere, or maybe they don’t post on Edmunds.
Anyway, happy anniversary to anyone else who’s read all 20K+ posts. The nameless board is up to 19,654 posts, so it’ll be passing Edmunds any day now. All that said, this board has brought me a lot of knowledge and the opportunity to meet some really interesting people. Thank you.
I’ll be more than interested in seeing where we are four years hence with the LS.
That was a very interesting collection of information, thanks.
As a charter member and officer of that "other club", I will not forget where all this started... right here. This whole new kind of car enthusiast experience has been made possible by the Internet, Edmunds, Lincoln, and you all.
I remember when I first came aimlessly wondering in here somewhere around post 1,000 looking for info on this new car Lincoln was making.
I heartily congradulate one of the "founding father's", the progenitor, of all of the wonderful-things-LS that are yet to come.
Joe
Back to the topic: fokrab, I'm with Allen; gotta be a tire.
Is the 2003 LS destined to be like the 1983 Corvette?? In other words, a "skipped year"?