Evidently, only the Sport models were considered for export. Or only the V-6 MTX model was considered for export, but there was no distinction in the production of the bodies between V-6 and V-8 Sports, since the MTX's were such low volume.
i have a 2000 LS that i am going to replace the tires on. i was wondering what brand and tire to replace them with. i love the ride and feel of the original tires so i want something comparable with them. if anyone has had a good experience with a certain brand of tire please let me know. thanks
I've been lurking on this board for years and now close to acquiring my own LS.
I happened across a used '02 Premium V8 and have a question - were there mid-year changes to the '02's? This car looks to be an early '02 since it's Silver Frost, not Silver Birch. I'm wondering about the location of the CD changer (dash or glove box) and the size of the wheels - initial e-mail from the Internet mgr. stated 16" painted, but the Lincoln website indicates 17" are standard on the '02 Premium, at least now.
The car is about 1 1/2 hours away, so I haven't seen it in person and I know from reading this board that I'll probably get a faster, more accurate answer here while I wait for the next e-mail from the dealer.
The '02 Premium package had the 17" Sport wheels as standard equipment. At the beginning of the model year, the wheels on the Premium package were chrome; later in the model year, the non-chrome (silver-painted) ones were also available with the Premium package. If the car you're interested in doesn't have them, then either you're not getting the correct wheels or the car is not a Premium car. (The Premium also has the same suspension settings as the Sport.)
The only sound system available on the '02 Premium is the Alpine Audiophile system with the 6-disc in-dash CD changer. The system that has the in-dash cassette player and glove box-mounted CD changer is only available on the V8 base and V6 convenience packages for '02.
You're right about the paint color. Silver Birch replaced Silver Frost about the middle of the '02 model year. I think it was in the January/February timeframe, but I don't remember exactly.
On a Silver Frost '02 Premium car, the only available interior was Charcoal. If this car doesn't have a Charcoal (very dark, essentially black) interior, it isn't a Premium. Also, the Premium seat upholstery is unique--it's called "Nudo", and the most distinct element is that the insert in the center portions of the seats is a basket-weave pattern rather than being solid.
A Premium car will have the moonroof, aforementioned Sport wheels, chrome/aluminum bumper rub strips, a cargo net in the trunk, and unique floor and trunk mats with a logo. If this car doesn't have those items, then it isn't a Premium.
What is up with the 03 LS? I requested a brochure and received the 02 brochure yesterday. When I do an inventory search on the Lincoln web site all that shows up are 02's. I have read that there are many improvements in the 03. Why is it so delayed? When will they be available?
The only significant change I can remember during the 02 model year was the rear window regulators. If it was built early in the model year (fall 2001) then it MAY not have the new metal ones. But that's a minor inconvenience. The premiums come with the 17" sport wheels but it's possible someone swapped them for the 16". Have them check the tire size to be sure. Should be 235/50R17. The cd changer should be in the dash on all 02s, not the glovebox.
Tom - calm down! They're available NOW. Have been for at least a month. If you request a brochure the standard way you get the 2002 brochure. If you go to the 2003 LS page there's a link to get a 2003 brochure. They're still trying to clear out the old 2002's and therefore aren't pushing the 03 yet.
The improvements are worth the wait. Call your local dealer and ask them if they have any in stock. A lot of what they're getting in right now is pre-sold.
If you have the 17" sport wheels you can get several different brands of Michelins from the current OEM tire (MXM4 all season) to ultra high performance all season (Pilot Sport A/S) to ultra high performance summer (Pilot Sport). On the budget side Kumho 712s seem to be the hot one. Great grip, decent treadwear, good all around tire and it's less than $120 each. There are several in between. What's your preference? Ride comfort, wet handling, dry handling, noise? Do a size search on www.tirerack.com and check the survey results for each tire.
Tom: The 2003 LS went into production in mid-November and has been showing up at dealerships since the middle of December. I know several people who have already taken delivery of '03 cars, and my local dealership has several in stock.
Depending on the part of the country you're in, there may still be some '02 models in stock, too; just depends on the dealership & area. There are GREAT deals available on the '02 right now; it's a real bargain. You're right about the '03 improvements; more horsepower, a heavily revised interior, a new ZF steering system, upgraded transmission, the fantastic THX sound system (optional), and many other items are included/available in the '03.
In order to get an '03 brochure by mail, go to the Lincoln website and click on the '03 LS link near the middle of the screen. This will open a separate window for '03 info. Then click on the "get updates" link & fill out the form. You should get a brochure from this; I did. The brochures should have arrived at your nearby dealer by now, too.
In order to see '03 LS inventory, highlight the "dealer" tab, then click on "dealer locator". Enter your zip code and go directly to the dealer's website via the link that'll be provided. This will allow you to see everything that a dealer has in stock, and eliminates the '02 LS restriction that's in the "search inventory" tab.
If this isn't clear, post again & I'll try to help.
Thanks, Guys! The car *is* reported to have the Nudo seats, so it must be the Premium (I prefer the Sport, but oh well, I'm buying used and can't get everything ;-) ). The wheels in the inventory photo are the chrome ones, so the Internet Manager must have been mistaken (or the photo's of the wrong car).
I am still waiting for her e-mail response, but one question she should be responding to is whether the rear window regulators have had the new metal part installed.
I look forward to joining everyone over at the other club soon.
You don't have to wait! Email me if you need more details.
The biggest difference in the Premium vs. the Sport is that the shifter and steering wheel are wood and there's no SST mode (but that's easily fixed with a new or used SST shifter assembly and a couple of hours in the driveway). I even heard there are step by step instructions posted on the web somewhere - I'm SURE you could find them if you knew where to look. You could also change the shifter knob if you prefer leather.
Also the Premium will have the chrome strips on the bumpers. IIRC those are the only real differences.
Have you done any shopping for new '02s? Depending on where you're located, there are still some available, and dealers are cutting fantastic deals on them right now. Be sure you can't do just about as well on a new one before you buy the used one.
You've probably already researched this angle, but if you haven't, you might be pleasantly surprised. This is an outstanding opportunity to get a new '02. Just wanted to pass that thought along.
The '02 premium is comes standard with 17" 5 spoke chrome wheels. There is a delete option to change them to the 17" super silver 5 spoke wheels.
The Sport comes standard with 17" super silver wheels, there was an option to change them to the 17" 5 spoke chrome wheels.
The premium comes with the power moonroof, upgraded floor carpets and trunk carpet. It also has the basket weave Nudo leather seats.
To confirm what Allen and others have said, premium has chrome strips on the bumper, Sport does not.
Premium has the regular shifter, Sport has SST.
Premium has wood steering wheel insert and gear shift knob, sport has all leather steering wheel and leather gear shift knob.
Price wise the premium is an attractive package.
Check and make sure that it has 17" wheels as I have seen LS's (& other cars) on dealer lots with the wrong tires / wheels. Most likely switched to make a sale on another car.
You can check the invoice date by looking at the lower right hand corner of the window sticker. You can also check the build month by looking at the blue sticker on the driver's door jam.
The '02's built October 2001 and later have some significant upgrades over the '00 & '01's intake air box, transmission ratios and V8 cam chains, while the V-6 got the air box upgrade, trannie ratios and a better exhaust.
Although there are always running changes on all vehicles, I am unaware of any significant mid year changes in the '02's other than colors.
As johnny said, the deals on the leftover '02's are fanstastic. Expect to pay invoice price less $3,000 rebate, less around $1,000 dealer cash, plus 0% APR for 60 months, which is worth a lot of $$ in combination with the discounts and rebates. Depending how many people opt for '03's over '02's I'd say that virtually all the '02's will be gone by the end of March.
my preference is ride and handling. i like the tires i have on the car now. i have checked out the michelins and boy are they expensive. about 200.00 to 250.00 per tire but i have heard they are good tires. i also got a quote on firestone firehawks for 582.00 for all 4. what do you think?
The used '02 I'm considering has 16K on it with an asking price of $27995.
Johnnylinc and Slunar - In my area (TX), I'm seeing $2K rebate and 0% financing only, not the $3K and $1K dealer cash with 0%. If I could get that $4K below invoice with the 0%, I'd jump on a new '02 (there is one '02 sport exactly how I want it at a dealer about 3 hours away; just missed one at another dealer last month). Do you know something Edmunds doesn't (no surprise if you do!)
Slunar - I greatly appreciate the comment on the late build improvements. Definitely something to consider.
I don't remember the details but I thought someone just bought a V8 for $33K - $7K off MSRP. The deals are out there if you can find an 02 that you like.
It's hard to beat the Firestones at the price. Many of us have run these tires at two Mania events and they are a great tire for all seasons. If you want to go balls out for handling, with some sacrifice in ride quality, go for the Bridgestone Pole-Position SO-3 Potenza in the 245/45/17 size. Incredible grip and good in the rain as well. Also less expensive than the Michelin Pilots. The SO-3s break away with incredible predictibility, and will never let go instantaneously. They also make no noise when they slip - no chirping rubber sound. You have to worry about that with the new laws that were passed this year in California aimed at street racing.
IMO the Michelins are about as good as it gets for smoothness and quietness while still maintaining good handling. But they are expensive. Check out the Kumho Ecsta 712 for about $100 each. Reports are they're much better than the original Firestones. Too bad you missed the $69 fire sale on those last year. They were actually fairly good tires - built especially for the LS.
Drop me an email (LobsenzA@Rose-Grp.com). I know aof a great dealer, depending on where you are in TX.
The transmission gear ratio change on the 02s occurred before October 01. I think the rear window regulators changed to the final part number in January 02.
In general, you should be able to fairly easily get $6000 off MSRP with the 0% financing, or $7000 off MSRP without the financing. That has been done recently by people I know. My local dealer (I'm in central Texas) sent me a card in the mail yesterday advertising $6600 off a new '02 LS, and that's not a dealer I've done business with--that's right off the top.
Being realistic, though, an '02 V8 Sport or Premium is going to have an MSRP in the range of $39k to $41.5k depending on options. If it's $40,000, you're still looking at $34k with 0% financing, which is still six grand more than the price you've gotten on the used '02, so the one you found sounds like a good deal. Understand that I'm NOT trying to sway you one way or the other; just pointing out options.
In central Texas, there are very few '02s left in any dealer's stock. It's different in Dallas; there are quite a few to choose from. I haven't checked Houston; there are probably some there, too.
Akirby and lobsenza both suggested that you Email them for info. They're both friends of mine; I can vouch for the fact that their information will be useful. Of course, nobody's vouching for ME, but that's another story...
Good luck with your quest. The LS is a great car, and I like mine very much. Feel free to post any more questions; someone will be here to answer them.
Well I just purchased a new 02 LS V6 sport here in Indiana (MSRP 36,900.00) and I can vouch for the good deals available. I took the 2k rebate and .9 % financing offer and obtained an additional $4900.00 off list for a total of $6900.00 discount... this along with the .9% financing made it cheaper to buy new then used payment wise. I started looking at a used 2000 and found out I could get new cheaper by the time the interest on a used vehicle was factored in. I personally would rather put my money out on "car" vs interest. I have wanted one of these since 2000 when they came out and test drove one and the incentives have made it feasible for me economically. I am a happy happy man!! I purchased it from Southworth Lincoln Mercury in Marion Indiana. I worked on the price for 2 days to get them where I wanted it but they were good to deal with knew how to haggle and had a good sense of humor..I love the back and forth banter trying to make a deal and would recommend this dealership to any one. (now if I can get the wife out of it I will get to drive it some)
I put a set of Falken ZX502s on my 2000 LS back in October. I only had them on for 4-5 weeks before I took them off and put the snow tires on, but at that point, I was impressed with them. They're fairly inexpensive, so you might want to take a look at them. Try "Vulcan Tire" on line...
Thanks for the updates on how to get the 03 brochure and do the inventory search. My closest dealer has one 02 and six 03's. The "high volume" dealer about 30 miles away has sixteen 02's and NO 03's. Must have presold all the 03's.
Lobsenza - I e-mailed you privately. I think I recalled which dealer you bought from..
Johnnylinc - I'm also in cenTex (drove the LS when it first came out, pre-Sport, at Draeger in G'Town and wanted one ever since). Seems we didn't have much inventory in this area at any time. I did find some '02s in Houston - Texan seems to have more inventory and one in stock that happens to be what I want, but I'm not familiar with the dealer at all.
I am looking primariy at used '02s figuring some folks will be trading in for the '03 improvements and I can take advantage of someone else already having suffered the initial depreciation (as that price on the '02 I'm looking at will attest to). Of course, now y'all have me thinking that the difference in total cost after financing whittles it down to about $3K more for new than used... Is getting the exact car I want worth that $3K? That's a tough one (at $6K it's a definite "no"), but I will see what quote I get back from Texan on the new one.
And Akirby, I do know I can join "the club" without owning. I just didn't want to torture myself further without owning one yet. Reading this board daily has been tough enough!
MKC. I've followed Edmunds pricing for 3 years and they never seem to have the incentives (customer rebate and dealer cash) correct. About 80% of the time they seem to have the customer rebates right.
To check customer incentives the best place to go is: lincolnvehicles.com. It is possible that you only have a $2K rebate and not $3K like in other places as rebates are regional.
Dealer cash is much harder to figure out. I have NEVER seen Edmunds give correct info on dealer cash. The manufacturs and dealers DO NOT like to let the public know exactly what the dealer cash programs are. I had a link to a trade rag that reports all incentives, but I can't find it right now.
A local dealer has (2) 2002 LS V8 premiums on their lot that have a MSRP of $40,340 (no options). They are advertising them for $32,995 after all rebates and incentives + you get 0% for 60 months. This agrees with a post someone else made on another site that his brother was buying a $41K MSRP '02 V8 Sport for about $33K.
If you have sales tax where you are, dealer cash is better than a rebate because you pay sales tax on the rebate amount. Since dealer cash goes to the dealer, you get it as a discount and hence pay no sales tax on it.
Dealers are not obligated to pass on dealer cash, some WILL try to keep it. I check at 2 dealers, one told me there was dealer cash and they were passing the full amount on to the customer. The 2nd dealer played completely dumb pretending they knew nothing about any dealer cash. Tried to say they never hear of such a thing.
I'm following all this real close because I've been waiting for the '03's to replace my '00 V8. However, the deals on the '02's are almost too good to pass up. The 0% for 60 months in combination with the rebates and dealer cash is like getting another $4,000 discount compared to financing the car at 4.9% for 60 months.
The way I'm figuring it if I buy a LS and keeo it for 5 years, an '02 will cost me around $8,000 less than getting an '03 right now (using 0% / 60 mo.). The remaining question becomes: "Once all the '02's are gone, how much better will the '03 incentives get?"
One more think MKC, when comparing the used '02 price to the new '02, if you are going to finance it you need to add the total finance charges (interest) on the used '02.
Lets say, per the example someone gave, of a new '02 premuim having a net price of $34K. At 0% APR that's exactly what you will pay, $34K spread out over 5 years.
If you buy the used one at $28K and are able to get 4.9% financing for 60 months, that means you are really paying $31,700 (spread out for 5 years) for the used '02, or only $2,300 less than the new '02.
In other words, the new '02 will cost you $567 / month, while the used one will cost you $528 / month. In addition, if you are keeping the car for a number of years remember the used one already has 1 year taken off it's life.
To me this says GET THE NEW '02 as with 0% APR it is a MUCH better deal.
Or, get the dealer to drop the price in the used '02. $25K @ 4.9% ($472 / month)is more like it to me.
I hope this helps to explain why used car prices are so weak.
I live in the metroplex and leased an 02 sport from Don Davis in Arlington. They have a lot full of 02's in every color and option you can expect. My 02 lease cost me 7k less than the lease on my 00 which was a standard LS V8. I don't know the exact figure on my papers as Don Davis is a horrible dealer to work with. I've had the car for a month and still don't have the paperwork on it. As best as I can remember it leased out for 32/33K. This morning another dealer Mac Churchill was listing six K off MSRP. Another factor on the new one is the free service for the first 3 years. I don't know if that's transferable. Bottom line is there are plenty of 02's in the metroplex. My 2 cents
Congratulations on a great deal on a great car! FYI, most of the V6 owners I know say that the engine requires longer break-in than most new ones, several thousand miles before it starts revving freely. So if it feels a little sluggish to you, give it some time. If you're at all like most of us, putting miles on the LS is not a chore at all.
Scott is right. My 6 took almost 10K to fully loosen up. I felt a little more ommph again recently, at ~56K miles! I have NO idea what that's all about. You know where to go ( )to get a good price on a Magnaflow cat-back system. That will REALLY help your 6 breathe easier!
Took at least 8k and still got better at the 10k mark. Engine is a real stone when new. You just have to be patient! I waited to 10k before I switched to Mobil 1.
My 2000 took a while to break-in, too. I also changed to Mobil 1 around 10,000 miles. Once I added on the 2002 airbox & Borla - it was even better. When I run it on 94 Octane gas - it runs even better yet.
Last time I was driving my LS through the Hoosier State - down to Bloominton and then up I-69 to Michigan - I barely saw an LS. Glad to hear that the population is growing!
Gee, we must be twins. 2000 MTX, Borla, 2002 Air Box, Mobil 1 also. We can't get 94 octane here in Calif. 91 is the highest, and it's barely gas. The btu content must be lower because most people here get 6-10% lower gas mileage. Chevron here brags that Detroit imports Chevron gas for smog testing. There are no Chevron stations in Michigan so they truck it in from hundreds of miles away. We also pay more for gas. The lowest price for Texaco/Shell (all the Texaco stations will soon be Shell) is $1.80+ for what they call "Premium". So don't feel too bad about putting the pedal to the metal in the Penn state. Speaking of the pedal to the metal, my rear Bridgestone SO-3's are only 7 months old and getting to the wear bars. They must call these gumballs for a reason.
Would anyone recommend driving a special way during the break-in period? My dealer said the new cars don't require special care like the older ones did. (such as not keeping the same speed for a long period of time on a trip.) I have 1200 miles on mine, and it seems quite peppy to me. Of course, I'm used to driving GM's.
The dealers say the rings are "broken-in" already also, but I would still vary your speed and not do any banzai blasts until you have about 3500 miles. Keep Dino oil in for at least 7500 miles and than switch to Syn. I think it's a good idea to change oil at 2000 miles with a new filter. I think the best Dino oil is Kendall GT-1, still made in Pennsylvania, which means it's a superior parafin based oil vs west coast asphaltic based (it's easier to get the wax out). Some "break-iners" suggest a few quick high rpm trysts to get the top ring as high as possible when it forms it's ledge but I don't know the veracity of that. I hope the V8 is not as tight as the V6, but when new, these engines are far from their potential.
Nicknames for the 20"+ wheels we now see on SUV's and Trucks. Now this pimpmobile fad has caught the attention of January's Automobile Magazine. On page 103 is a test of a stock 2002 Expedition with the stock 275/60/17 tires/wheels and a set of 23" OZ Vela 3 piece wheels with Kumho ECSTA STX 305/40VR-23 tires. Granted, the lower profile should have given a faster turn-in, better handling since the tread width went from 7.2 to 10.5 inch. So what did spending $1500 for each wheel and tire get you? 0-60 time increased by 1 second Cornering went from .78 to .81g Fuel Consumption increased by 2 mpg Unsprung weight increased from 67 to 92 lbs (that's the weight of each wheel and tire!) Throttle and steering were slower to respond and cornering at the limit result in jackhammer-like wheel chatter. The ride is worse.
I think these owners are just more affluent Civic/Accord/Eclipse kids who don't have a place to mount dual plane adjustable aluminum spoilers on their SUV's. Advice to my fellow LS owners: Just go around them or bait them into corners to see how far they can go with their performance fantasies. I have seen more than one of these on their sides.
The March C & D has an interesting article on a long term test of a 2001 M3. Interesting not because of the car so much as the test of the two different tires used on the car. They tested two Summer tires - the Michelin Pilot Sports and the Bridgestone Potenza Pole Position SO-3s. Well, the rear S0-3's wore out in 14,000 miles. The Pilot Sports at 18,000 miles retained 47% of their tread life. Grip was identical. So it's really a matter of cost. The S0-3's are less expensive but do not last as long. My S0-3's are really worn in the rear after 7 months and not that many miles (but lots of sliding). So taka your pick and pays yo money!
Everyone has their own favorite ideas or old wives tales, most based on plain old common sense. I wouldn't have described my V8 as tight the way people talk about the V6, but there was a definite period before it started revving up freely & easily. I treated 3k rpm as the redline for the first 1000 miles, then worked up to 4k and beyond. I drive a lot so it was easy to get a feel for the engine, what throttle position would produce X rpm before the automatic shifted, that sort of thing. I noticed a considerable loosening up around 4k miles, and the gas mileage got to where it is now, at 67k. So that's where I considered it broken in. YMMV, as always.:) But, the engine uses no oil at all between 5k mile synthetic oil changes, so who's gonna argue with me? (Not everyone at once, please.)
Then again, those of us who have been to the Wixom assembly plant have seen what happens to the cars after they roll off the line: Driven on to the rollers of a dynamometer, gas pedal floored and held there for something like 30 seconds. I still shudder to think that they did that to MY car.:)
I think that using only one brand of oil in the M3 is bunk. Especially Castrol Synthetic, which is a Class 3 Synthetic, and possibly the worst synthetic oil made. A few years ago, Castrol decided to remove the main base ingredient of almost all Synthetics - the ester base, but they still charge a Class 1 price. No more than a class 1 - $9.00 a quart! Castrol Syn is very controversial, and the Internet is full of discussions about what is and what isn't a synthetic oil. But no Class 3 oil is as good as a Class 1 like Amsoil or Mobil 1. Also, 12,500 mile oil changes! Not for my car! Now you know why the M3 uses oil!
So did Lincoln just simplify my decision process by ending the 0% for 60 month financing early? Checking the Lincoln website now shows only a college graduate rebate.
The M3 used 14 quarts at $9.00 a quart! Plus the regular changes in 40,000 miles. On the net, at www.bimmerforums.com/amsoilstudybybobm3.php the "Great Bob" does a study on engine oil for his M3, and he does not choose Castrol.
AAA wanted to give me a quote on car insurance so I threw 3 scenarios at them. I have had 21st Century for years. Currently, I pay $369 every 6 months for the LS or $738 annually to 21st Century. Not bad I guess. I called 21st and asked them what the same coverage would be if I bought a 330i Sedan or a G35 Sedan. The Bimmer would be $801 and the G35 would be $1026! The G is listed as "Hi Performance", although the Bimmer is more expensive and has almost identical performance. I think those Japanese horsepower are inflated. Now for AAA: My 2000 LS would be $878. A 2003 330i would be $1326. A 2003 G35 would be $1137. Now if I had a 2003 LS, I'm sure it might be a little different but what a difference between companies for the LS and look at the flip-flop between 21st and AAA on the G and 330i. It looks like the LS is a the bargain deal for low insurance rates. Do you think that the LS Manual is just thrown in with the Autos? (No separate classification?)
Something is up, as when I punch in my Zip Code the Lincoln website shows no incentives of any kind for both the LS and Town car (other than $400 college grad rebate).
As of a couple of days ago it was showing that the $3K rebate and 0% APR was good until March 3.
I'd guess that the incentives are changing, they just haven't updated the site. Lincoln can barely sell Town Cars these days with $10K of discounts & rebates plus low APR's, so there is no way Lincoln would suddenly pull all incentives.
Comments
circlea
I happened across a used '02 Premium V8 and have a question - were there mid-year changes to the '02's? This car looks to be an early '02 since it's Silver Frost, not Silver Birch. I'm wondering about the location of the CD changer (dash or glove box) and the size of the wheels - initial e-mail from the Internet mgr. stated 16" painted, but the Lincoln website indicates 17" are standard on the '02 Premium, at least now.
The car is about 1 1/2 hours away, so I haven't seen it in person and I know from reading this board that I'll probably get a faster, more accurate answer here while I wait for the next e-mail from the dealer.
Many thanks,
MKC
The only sound system available on the '02 Premium is the Alpine Audiophile system with the 6-disc in-dash CD changer. The system that has the in-dash cassette player and glove box-mounted CD changer is only available on the V8 base and V6 convenience packages for '02.
You're right about the paint color. Silver Birch replaced Silver Frost about the middle of the '02 model year. I think it was in the January/February timeframe, but I don't remember exactly.
On a Silver Frost '02 Premium car, the only available interior was Charcoal. If this car doesn't have a Charcoal (very dark, essentially black) interior, it isn't a Premium. Also, the Premium seat upholstery is unique--it's called "Nudo", and the most distinct element is that the insert in the center portions of the seats is a basket-weave pattern rather than being solid.
A Premium car will have the moonroof, aforementioned Sport wheels, chrome/aluminum bumper rub strips, a cargo net in the trunk, and unique floor and trunk mats with a logo. If this car doesn't have those items, then it isn't a Premium.
Hope this helps.
The improvements are worth the wait. Call your local dealer and ask them if they have any in stock. A lot of what they're getting in right now is pre-sold.
Depending on the part of the country you're in, there may still be some '02 models in stock, too; just depends on the dealership & area. There are GREAT deals available on the '02 right now; it's a real bargain. You're right about the '03 improvements; more horsepower, a heavily revised interior, a new ZF steering system, upgraded transmission, the fantastic THX sound system (optional), and many other items are included/available in the '03.
In order to get an '03 brochure by mail, go to the Lincoln website and click on the '03 LS link near the middle of the screen. This will open a separate window for '03 info. Then click on the "get updates" link & fill out the form. You should get a brochure from this; I did. The brochures should have arrived at your nearby dealer by now, too.
In order to see '03 LS inventory, highlight the "dealer" tab, then click on "dealer locator". Enter your zip code and go directly to the dealer's website via the link that'll be provided. This will allow you to see everything that a dealer has in stock, and eliminates the '02 LS restriction that's in the "search inventory" tab.
If this isn't clear, post again & I'll try to help.
I am still waiting for her e-mail response, but one question she should be responding to is whether the rear window regulators have had the new metal part installed.
I look forward to joining everyone over at the other club soon.
MKC
The biggest difference in the Premium vs. the Sport is that the shifter and steering wheel are wood and there's no SST mode (but that's easily fixed with a new or used SST shifter assembly and a couple of hours in the driveway). I even heard there are step by step instructions posted on the web somewhere - I'm SURE you could find them if you knew where to look. You could also change the shifter knob if you prefer leather.
Also the Premium will have the chrome strips on the bumpers. IIRC those are the only real differences.
You've probably already researched this angle, but if you haven't, you might be pleasantly surprised. This is an outstanding opportunity to get a new '02. Just wanted to pass that thought along.
The Sport comes standard with 17" super silver wheels, there was an option to change them to the 17" 5 spoke chrome wheels.
The premium comes with the power moonroof, upgraded floor carpets and trunk carpet. It also has the basket weave Nudo leather seats.
To confirm what Allen and others have said, premium has chrome strips on the bumper, Sport does not.
Premium has the regular shifter, Sport has SST.
Premium has wood steering wheel insert and gear shift knob, sport has all leather steering wheel and leather gear shift knob.
Price wise the premium is an attractive package.
Check and make sure that it has 17" wheels as I have seen LS's (& other cars) on dealer lots with the wrong tires / wheels. Most likely switched to make a sale on another car.
You can check the invoice date by looking at the lower right hand corner of the window sticker. You can also check the build month by looking at the blue sticker on the driver's door jam.
The '02's built October 2001 and later have some significant upgrades over the '00 & '01's intake air box, transmission ratios and V8 cam chains, while the V-6 got the air box upgrade, trannie ratios and a better exhaust.
Although there are always running changes on all vehicles, I am unaware of any significant mid year changes in the '02's other than colors.
As johnny said, the deals on the leftover '02's are fanstastic. Expect to pay invoice price less $3,000 rebate, less around $1,000 dealer cash, plus 0% APR for 60 months, which is worth a lot of $$ in combination with the discounts and rebates. Depending how many people opt for '03's over '02's I'd say that virtually all the '02's will be gone by the end of March.
circlea
Johnnylinc and Slunar - In my area (TX), I'm seeing $2K rebate and 0% financing only, not the $3K and $1K dealer cash with 0%. If I could get that $4K below invoice with the 0%, I'd jump on a new '02 (there is one '02 sport exactly how I want it at a dealer about 3 hours away; just missed one at another dealer last month). Do you know something Edmunds doesn't (no surprise if you do!)
Slunar - I greatly appreciate the comment on the late build improvements. Definitely something to consider.
MKC
If you want to go balls out for handling, with some sacrifice in ride quality, go for the Bridgestone Pole-Position SO-3 Potenza in the 245/45/17 size. Incredible grip and good in the rain as well. Also less expensive than the Michelin Pilots. The SO-3s break away with incredible predictibility, and will never let go instantaneously. They also make no noise when they slip - no chirping rubber sound.
You have to worry about that with the new laws that were passed this year in California aimed at street racing.
The transmission gear ratio change on the 02s occurred before October 01. I think the rear window regulators changed to the final part number in January 02.
Being realistic, though, an '02 V8 Sport or Premium is going to have an MSRP in the range of $39k to $41.5k depending on options. If it's $40,000, you're still looking at $34k with 0% financing, which is still six grand more than the price you've gotten on the used '02, so the one you found sounds like a good deal. Understand that I'm NOT trying to sway you one way or the other; just pointing out options.
In central Texas, there are very few '02s left in any dealer's stock. It's different in Dallas; there are quite a few to choose from. I haven't checked Houston; there are probably some there, too.
Akirby and lobsenza both suggested that you Email them for info. They're both friends of mine; I can vouch for the fact that their information will be useful. Of course, nobody's vouching for ME, but that's another story...
Good luck with your quest. The LS is a great car, and I like mine very much. Feel free to post any more questions; someone will be here to answer them.
"car" vs interest.
I have wanted one of these since 2000 when they came out and test drove one and the incentives have made it feasible for me economically. I am a happy happy man!! I purchased it from Southworth Lincoln Mercury in Marion Indiana. I worked on the price for 2 days to get them where I wanted it but they were good to deal with knew how to haggle and had a good sense of humor..I love the back and forth banter trying to make a deal and would recommend this dealership to any one. (now if I can get the wife out of it I will get to drive it some)
They're fairly inexpensive, so you might want to take a look at them. Try "Vulcan Tire" on line...
Johnnylinc - I'm also in cenTex (drove the LS when it first came out, pre-Sport, at Draeger in G'Town and wanted one ever since). Seems we didn't have much inventory in this area at any time. I did find some '02s in Houston - Texan seems to have more inventory and one in stock that happens to be what I want, but I'm not familiar with the dealer at all.
I am looking primariy at used '02s figuring some folks will be trading in for the '03 improvements and I can take advantage of someone else already having suffered the initial depreciation (as that price on the '02 I'm looking at will attest to). Of course, now y'all have me thinking that the difference in total cost after financing whittles it down to about $3K more for new than used... Is getting the exact car I want worth that $3K? That's a tough one (at $6K it's a definite "no"), but I will see what quote I get back from Texan on the new one.
And Akirby, I do know I can join "the club" without owning. I just didn't want to torture myself further without owning one yet. Reading this board daily has been tough enough!
MKC
To check customer incentives the best place to go is: lincolnvehicles.com. It is possible that you only have a $2K rebate and not $3K like in other places as rebates are regional.
Dealer cash is much harder to figure out. I have NEVER seen Edmunds give correct info on dealer cash. The manufacturs and dealers DO NOT like to let the public know exactly what the dealer cash programs are. I had a link to a trade rag that reports all incentives, but I can't find it right now.
A local dealer has (2) 2002 LS V8 premiums on their lot that have a MSRP of $40,340 (no options). They are advertising them for $32,995 after all rebates and incentives + you get 0% for 60 months. This agrees with a post someone else made on another site that his brother was buying a $41K MSRP '02 V8 Sport for about $33K.
If you have sales tax where you are, dealer cash is better than a rebate because you pay sales tax on the rebate amount. Since dealer cash goes to the dealer, you get it as a discount and hence pay no sales tax on it.
Dealers are not obligated to pass on dealer cash, some WILL try to keep it. I check at 2 dealers, one told me there was dealer cash and they were passing the full amount on to the customer. The 2nd dealer played completely dumb pretending they knew nothing about any dealer cash. Tried to say they never hear of such a thing.
I'm following all this real close because I've been waiting for the '03's to replace my '00 V8. However, the deals on the '02's are almost too good to pass up. The 0% for 60 months in combination with the rebates and dealer cash is like getting another $4,000 discount compared to financing the car at 4.9% for 60 months.
The way I'm figuring it if I buy a LS and keeo it for 5 years, an '02 will cost me around $8,000 less than getting an '03 right now (using 0% / 60 mo.). The remaining question becomes: "Once all the '02's are gone, how much better will the '03 incentives get?"
Lets say, per the example someone gave, of a new '02 premuim having a net price of $34K. At 0% APR that's exactly what you will pay, $34K spread out over 5 years.
If you buy the used one at $28K and are able to get 4.9% financing for 60 months, that means you are really paying $31,700 (spread out for 5 years) for the used '02, or only $2,300 less than the new '02.
In other words, the new '02 will cost you $567 / month, while the used one will cost you $528 / month. In addition, if you are keeping the car for a number of years remember the used one already has 1 year taken off it's life.
To me this says GET THE NEW '02 as with 0% APR it is a MUCH better deal.
Or, get the dealer to drop the price in the used '02. $25K @ 4.9% ($472 / month)is more like it to me.
I hope this helps to explain why used car prices are so weak.
My 02 lease cost me 7k less than the lease on my 00 which was a standard LS V8.
I don't know the exact figure on my papers as Don Davis is a horrible dealer to work with. I've had the car for a month and still don't have the paperwork on it. As best as I can remember it leased out for 32/33K.
This morning another dealer Mac Churchill was listing six K off MSRP.
Another factor on the new one is the free service for the first 3 years. I don't know if that's transferable. Bottom line is there are plenty of 02's in the metroplex.
My 2 cents
I waited to 10k before I switched to Mobil 1.
Last time I was driving my LS through the Hoosier State - down to Bloominton and then up I-69 to Michigan - I barely saw an LS. Glad to hear that the population is growing!
We can't get 94 octane here in Calif. 91 is the highest, and it's barely gas. The btu content must be lower because most people here get 6-10% lower gas mileage.
Chevron here brags that Detroit imports Chevron gas for smog testing. There are no Chevron stations in Michigan so they truck it in from hundreds of miles away.
We also pay more for gas. The lowest price for Texaco/Shell (all the Texaco stations will soon be Shell) is $1.80+ for what they call "Premium".
So don't feel too bad about putting the pedal to the metal in the Penn state.
Speaking of the pedal to the metal, my rear Bridgestone SO-3's are only 7 months old and getting to the wear bars. They must call these gumballs for a reason.
Some "break-iners" suggest a few quick high rpm trysts to get the top ring as high as possible when it forms it's ledge but I don't know the veracity of that.
I hope the V8 is not as tight as the V6, but when new, these engines are far from their potential.
Now this pimpmobile fad has caught the attention of January's Automobile Magazine.
On page 103 is a test of a stock 2002 Expedition with the stock 275/60/17 tires/wheels and a set of 23" OZ Vela 3 piece wheels with Kumho ECSTA STX 305/40VR-23 tires.
Granted, the lower profile should have given a faster turn-in, better handling since the tread width went from 7.2 to 10.5 inch.
So what did spending $1500 for each wheel and tire get you?
0-60 time increased by 1 second
Cornering went from .78 to .81g
Fuel Consumption increased by 2 mpg
Unsprung weight increased from 67 to 92 lbs (that's the weight of each wheel and tire!)
Throttle and steering were slower to respond
and cornering at the limit result in jackhammer-like wheel chatter.
The ride is worse.
I think these owners are just more affluent Civic/Accord/Eclipse kids who don't have a place to mount dual plane adjustable aluminum spoilers on their SUV's.
Advice to my fellow LS owners: Just go around them or bait them into corners to see how far they can go with their performance fantasies. I have seen more than one of these on their sides.
Additionally the following options are available for order March 1, 2003 on the LS models listed.
Vivid Red Metallic: available on all models.
Real-wood trim option: available on V-8 Sport.
Interesting not because of the car so much as the test of the two different tires used on the car.
They tested two Summer tires - the Michelin Pilot Sports and the Bridgestone Potenza Pole Position SO-3s.
Well, the rear S0-3's wore out in 14,000 miles. The Pilot Sports at 18,000 miles retained 47% of their tread life.
Grip was identical.
So it's really a matter of cost. The S0-3's are less expensive but do not last as long.
My S0-3's are really worn in the rear after 7 months and not that many miles (but lots of sliding).
So taka your pick and pays yo money!
The 2nd most interesting thing was that it's maintanence system only called for oil changes every 12,500 miles.
Then again, those of us who have been to the Wixom assembly plant have seen what happens to the cars after they roll off the line: Driven on to the rollers of a dynamometer, gas pedal floored and held there for something like 30 seconds. I still shudder to think that they did that to MY car.:)
A few years ago, Castrol decided to remove the main base ingredient of almost all Synthetics - the ester base, but they still charge a Class 1 price. No more than a class 1 - $9.00 a quart!
Castrol Syn is very controversial, and the Internet is full of discussions about what is and what isn't a synthetic oil.
But no Class 3 oil is as good as a Class 1 like Amsoil or Mobil 1.
Also, 12,500 mile oil changes! Not for my car!
Now you know why the M3 uses oil!
MKC
But, the Ford site still lists $2,500 rebate on the Crown Vic.
Seems strange.
On the net, at www.bimmerforums.com/amsoilstudybybobm3.php the "Great Bob" does a study on engine oil for his M3, and he does not choose Castrol.
Currently, I pay $369 every 6 months for the LS or $738 annually to 21st Century. Not bad I guess. I called 21st and asked them what the same coverage would be if I bought a 330i Sedan or a G35 Sedan.
The Bimmer would be $801 and the G35 would be $1026! The G is listed as "Hi Performance", although the Bimmer is more expensive and has almost identical performance. I think those Japanese horsepower are inflated.
Now for AAA:
My 2000 LS would be $878.
A 2003 330i would be $1326.
A 2003 G35 would be $1137.
Now if I had a 2003 LS, I'm sure it might be a little different but what a difference between companies for the LS and look at the flip-flop between 21st and AAA on the G and 330i.
It looks like the LS is a the bargain deal for low insurance rates.
Do you think that the LS Manual is just thrown in with the Autos? (No separate classification?)
As of a couple of days ago it was showing that the $3K rebate and 0% APR was good until March 3.
I'd guess that the incentives are changing, they just haven't updated the site. Lincoln can barely sell Town Cars these days with $10K of discounts & rebates plus low APR's, so there is no way Lincoln would suddenly pull all incentives.