Thank you all for responding. After recently reading quite a bit about the LS, I am concluding that a potential risk in the purchase is that the transmission may give me problems. How much will a new transmission cost if and when this one goes on the fritz?
Q2) When I am stopped (and move the gear selector to manual or selectric or whatever that position is called) I can't get the selector lamp to indicate 1st gear. I can select either 2nd or 3rd prior to the car beginning to roll. Is that normal?
Q3) I took it up to 100mph today on an abandoned highway and felt a good amount of vibration. When I hit the brakes the steering wheel and front increased its vibration. Warped rotors?
Q4) I asked the question in my prior e-mail; What is the dollar value of the vehicle? I see them listed in the low $20's but Edmunds and KBB rate it lower (70,000 miles gets it to $17's). Thanks
not interested in getting in a spitting contest. I have a LS and I am over all quite pleased. My major disappointment has been the rapid depreciation of the LS. Ford has been building Lincolns a whole lot longer than Honda's been building Acuras and Toyota Lexi. You could argue they've had plenty of time to get their reputation established!
Kelley I have a '00 3.9 with a K&N filter... after a few miles I pulled the Air Box out and cut the bottom off... that stock box offers no flow at all regardless of the filter. No droning but there is a slight intake noise when you get on it (not a bad thing, at least its now getting air :-)
Q1. Transmission. The only transmission problems I have heard of are ones resolved by a programming change. I have not heard of people having transmission failures, so I would not get hung up on the repair cost of a transmission. I have met Mark K. (one of the transmission engineers). He follows this board and I am sure he can answer any specific questions.
Q2) Gear Selector: The 2000-2002 models will start in 1st gear in D5 or in SST when there is 60% or more throttle applied. The reason for this has to do with a quirk in the EPA testing procedure. The 2003s will start in 1st in SST. It is fine to start in 2 or 3. On very slipperly road conditions, 3rd will probably improve traction.
Q3) The vibration is most likely caused by wheel balancing, warped rotors, or bad tires. Uneven tightening of the lug nuts will warp rotors. Use a hand torque wrench and not an impact wrench to resolve this problem. Also try rebalancing the tires. If that does not work, try the road force balancer by Hunter. This is not a typical problem with an LS and should be able to be resolved.
Q4. Other than checking web sites and looking at comparable used cars, I have no suggestions.
What lobsenza said. My 2000 V6 LS just turned over 57K. To date my dealer visits include, A/C compressor failure (I've NEVER had that happen before with 10 Ford products), cooling fan pump failure (my dealer still tells me that my failure is the only one they've seen), fogged headlights, rear window regulators, shifter blew a diode (turns out, due to my enthusiastic use of the D5-D4 shift), and just last week I blew a radiator bypass hose. Everything except the hose was covered under warranty and I had a Town Car to drive while the cooling fan and a/c were fixed. I have no squeaks, rattles, pops, crackles or any other weird noises. The car just keeps getting better. Like lobsenza said. I haven't heard of any transmission failures, and the guys at my dealership would tell me! I can find out anytime what oarts are most replaced. My failed bypass hose was one of them. The hose has since been redesigned.
I imagine with regular service, almost any car (Yugos and Kias aside) can go over 200K miles. Heck, my Dad had a 1980 Crown Victoria with 250K miles when he sold it. It used no oil and ran great. The interior was looking 200K+ miles, though. The kid he sold it to burnt it to the ground with, IIRC 275K miles.
Read Lobsenza's post closely. In "normal" SST mode, the car will start out in 2nd gear. IF you apply greater than 60% throttle, the car will shift into 1st gear. You will then have 1st gear available until you come to a complete stop. Then the process to get 1st gear starts all over again. I've been as slow as a crawl in traffic and still kept 1st geaar "alive". If you mash the gas off the line, you will have a 1st gear start, without the 2-1 shift. One nice feature of the SST that the other makers don't offer. When in SST mode, the gear you select is the gear you have. The transmission logic will NOT up-shift at redline. The rev limiter kicks in and power is reduced. You can thank the EPA for the 2nd gear start.
bonanza111, my '00 V8 Sport has 67k miles with one window regulator as the only trouble. Given your history it's understandable you're nervous about the trans, but rest easy. Many of us correspond daily with literally hundreds of LS owners and we've only heard of a couple AT failures. It would be a real plus if you could check the maintenance records of the car to see if the trans has been serviced. Should be done at least every 60k miles; 30k is even better. If not, that might be a good early step if you buy the car. Lincoln dealers have an excellent process in which the transmission is completely flushed out via the cooler lines.
Your Q3 does sound like a balance issue. If the car had been sitting idle for a while before your test drive it could also be flat spots on the tires.
jdell1, that's a favorite performance tweak. If you don't like the noise, you can buy the '02 airbox for around $150. Much less restrictive than the '00-'01, but quiet.
bhoskins, nope, looks and a nicer interior are about all that sets the Jag apart. That and a little more horsepower due to variable cam timing. Based on the S-type board on this site, the Jaguar seems a bit trouble-prone compared to the LS. But it's not a real active board so the sample size is probably unfairly small. The Jag is supposedly tuned for a little more comfortable ride at the expense of some handling performance, but most people who have driven both can't tell the difference.
scottc8, thanks for the tip. I went out for a spin with the LS just now and I understand what you guys are talking about. (in SST mode) when you punch it the light switches from 2 to 1 and does hold it down to a very slow crawl. I'm getting more and more into the car every day. The owner (my friend) has given me the LS for 4 days to drive while he is skiing. I have to give it back on Sat afternoon, so I think I may have our local dealer do a pre-buy inspection on it tomorrow.
re: the balance issue: The tires were changed 10,000 miles ago.
I am a little nervous about buying the car because every time I drive it..........I want to go fast!!!!!!.
Be careful - after 4 days you won't want to give it back. If you haven't already, find a nice twisty backroad, throw the SST into 2nd or 3rd depending on speed and have at it. Or a nice 180+ degree off ramp. That's where this car really shines.
akirby......I live in a semi rural (twisty) area and I tested it already. There's no confusion, it handles very well. Another friend of mine has an Audi A8 which I have driven quite a few times. There are some handling similarity's between the A8 and the LS.
My friend has also put some kind of aftermarket exhaust system (downstream of the catalytic converter). Dynaflow??? it sounds throaty. He claims due to the free flow exhaust the horsepower is increased. Does anyone know how much the HP increases with this type of system?
I drive Mercedes, sell Toyotas, and I'm generally quite picky when it comes to cars. I love the looks of the new Lincolns. I drooled over the Navigator.... Until I got in one and felt the poor quality interior. Hey, it still looks good. That said, when the LS came out, I thought - "Man, what a great looking car. BMW-like! Too bad it's probably a dog." Then we got one on the lot, used. I have to say I am impressed by the quality level of this car. It's a big step forward for Lincoln. Iterior components (dash/console) feel solid, and now that I've seen several, I can say the V8 tends to age well, the V6 can be a bit iffy. Is it a Lexus? No. It's not supposed to be. Is it a killer low priced alternative in the used market? Yup. Licoln's historically low resale means these can be bought at auction for a song, and sold WAAAAAAYYYY cheaper than a comperable used Lexus. So, while it's certainly NOT a Lexus, and never will be, it's close enough to deliver one heck of a bang for the buck. I'm a confessed car snob. I'd drive it.
Re: Navigator low quality interiors - I presume you're talking about 2002 and earlier. Have you seen the 2003s? The interior and instrument panel are stunning and are winning praise from all the writers. The old dash was too 'Expedition' for me.
Re: V6 LS - what's 'iffy' about em? (You can guess probably that I have one. A 5speed.)
Mark, the transmission engineer recommends a fluid replacement every 30,000 miles in heavy service. He then said that he considers all driving heavy service. He said it is not necessary to ever change the filter. He recommends the flush procedure that removes all of the fluid.
That's what I was told by the GM of a Ford/Linc/Merc store. He said the V8's a good engine, but they've had a lot of problems from the 6's. I've personally seen a 6 w/ a valve rattle at 40K. And yes, my Navigator experience is limited to 02 and prior. Glad to hear they fixed it - it was awful. Sqeaks, rattles, and the whole dash shook when your knee bumped the console. I would have thought it was one particular car, but all 3 we've had had that problem. Contrary to what ppl might think, even Toyota dealer love sing Ford et al clean up their quality.... Good competition makes us ALL better.
That's odd about the V6. It is a Duratec based engine that's been around for 7 years. The only difference between the Sable and LS engines is the valve actuation system. Could that valve noise been caused by lack of lubrication?? Neither of my Duratecs makes any kind of valve (or other) noise. I have had one engine related issue in my LS that I haven't had so far in my '96 Sable with the Duratec. I had a cooling system hose (by-pass hose) fail. The repair cost me all of $180, including the diognistic and a new thermostat/gasket. My Sable has 114K miles and other than normal wear items (struts, tires, etc.), I've replaced the water pump, a/c clutch (magnetic field wore out), had the galley plugs replaced and the oil pan gasket replaced (that was my fault. Something about overtightening the pan bolts). The engine has been VERY reliable. That was one reason I went with the V6 in my LS. I'm NOT saying my LS has had the same problems as the Sable. I only hope the LS engine will be as reliable as the Sable's. I documented in an earlier post what my issues were. A/C compressor and cooling fan pump have been my only engine related (other than the above mentioned hose) trips to the dealer. All were fixed correctly the first time. The compressor repair will be a year at the end of March and the cooling fan is coming up on 2 years.
Since this forum has been around for so long, us old-timers have gotten somewhat quiet and not talked about how good the LS is at what it was designed to do. We tend to focus on the relatively few problems that the LS has and not talk much about the goodness of the LS experience.
I think we need to change that. Public perception here on Edmunds is based of what they read in these forums. If we aren't the big cheerleaders for the LS, they will rightly assume that there isn't much to take a look at. They would be wrong.
I dredged up a couple of posts from a long time ago from someone that is probably going to go over to the G35 camp purely because the G35 has a manual. His comments are as appropriate today in describing the LS driving experience as they were when he first posted them: ================================================= The REAL reason people buy a LS or an ode to the LS driving experience by Stanny1
#749 of 790: Right On Ray (stanny1) Mon 20 Nov '00 (04:53 PM)
The real turn-on is when you take that sweeper at near terminal velocity. You're really doing a controlled 4 wheel drift,teasing the Firehawks with just a little more throttle. The tires are getting a real greasy feeling,and you know you are at the limit and you know the limit,and you are one with the car.You lean to compensate for the G force,your heartbeat climbs and the adrenalin flows.The turn is only for mere seconds,but time seems to stand still.This is the LS moment,when you and the car are one.As you straighten out,you look in the rear view mirror.The 5 series is so far back most people couldn't recognize the marque.You now remember that there is a difference between just owning an ultimate driving machine and driving one. The LS owner knows the difference.He owns to drive,not drives to own.
#752 of 790: Joe Lincoln (stanny1) Mon 20 Nov '00 (06:10 PM)
I just wrote it from "feeling".I have this banked 180 degree turn near my house,part of a temporary off ramp related to freeway construction.It's an "off-camber" turn (right hand) which my modified Toyota Cressida five speed could never do because it's battery was at the front driver's side.But the LS has the battery in the trunk -that's magic for front to rear balance and a concept called "polar moment of inertia".An incredible amount of engineering went into the LS suspension.It belongs on a Formula 1 and not on a street car.It so outclasses a BMW Macpherson strut that they aren't even on the same planet.If you had to put the essence of the LS into a few words,they are "balance","handling","control".That turn is signed at 25mph;I take it at 60+.I never thought Firehawks,especially ones rated at 500 wear,could grab like that,since I have paid hundreds for Goodyears and Fuldas gumballs with ratings of 160-240 that don't have that kind of grip.My conclusion is that the LS suspension is so sophisticated,it keeps the tire at the optimum "slip angle" at all times.If my ball joints were loose,I would have hit the concrete barrier on that turn months ago.I value handling more than any attribute in a car,and the LS is the best value in handling out there.The DEW98 platform also gets credit for its incredible stiffness.I don't think a cross brace would help a bit.You would have to spend a lot of bucks on this chassis to get just a small improvement,and you might just screw it up just as easily.The only improvement I could imagine would be lightweight alloy wheels (non-chrome) in the exact factory offset,perhaps in an 8" width.And we're talking real money here,over 2 big ones for a set.And you may need instrumentation to tell the difference in handling even if you are brave enough to use it. so,Joe, go find a good off-ramp and have some fun.Leave a little space for the slide.The LS can do excellent four wheel drifts.
Many of us have had our cars long enough to be used to them, and while we haven't forgotten the thrill of what it was like when we first got them, we take the LS driving experience for granted. Well, a little.
I remember that post of Stan's very well. It was about a month after I bought my LS. It's as dead on right today as it was then. My daily on ramp is also marked 25, but I can only take it around 50 because it is really bumpy from heavy truck traffic, though I do lean on the throttle a good bit towards the end.:) The way the suspension soaks up those bumps and keeps the tires in contact with the pavement is amazing.
Had a friend with me on the interstate recently. He raved about the smooth ride, and I mentioned that the LS was considered a little rough & noisy compared to "pure" luxury sedans, and that was the small price we pay for handling. He said, "What do you mean?" so I just sort of flicked the steering wheel sharply about 30 degrees, then right back and, presto, we had changed lanes. No protest from the tires, no swaying body, it was neither difficult nor uncomfortable. Look, point, and it's there.
My daily commute is 90 miles round trip. I still get up in the morning looking forward to it, 27 months and 67k miles after buying the LS. My only doubt when I bought it was that, after a year or so, it would be just another car and I'd have these great honking payments for years. Now I know, it just ain't gonna happen.
Hey Guys - I will probably keep the LS and buy some toy. That way I can have a large 4 door sedan and get my manual fix with some two-door I can get into real trouble with. Considering the residual on the LS will be in Honda Civic territory, the payment will be very affordable. My wife's Volvo wagon is almost paid off so that free's up $500 a month for more cars. Since I'm self employed, I can write off 80% of my lease payments. People in real estate commonly bite off big leases on some pretty expensive cars because Uncle Sam is helping out big time. I look at it this way. Can I buy a 3 year old car with 40,000 miles in great condition for the residual of this car, considering it will probably be a little over 50% of the $32k I paid for it? I'd rather have my LS than a new Honda Civic. Prices have moved up considerably in just 3 years on most cars. The dollars now are cheaper, especially in financing. So that's the plan. Keep the LS for clients and family and take the toy out when I want to get nasty solo. My 2000 MTX LS still satisfies. At 35,000 miles, no squeakes or rattles. I still take 25 mph off/on ramps at 60. The engine still has not missed a tick and it hits redline regularly. I'm sure most people can't figure out what it is, and you still don't see another LS for days here in San Diego. The only problems I have had were a leaky coolant reservoir (rare) and both window regulators were replaced when one malfunctioned, early on and under warranty. The dealer, Witt LM, has treated me as if I had bought a Lexus LS430. I have never driven a car this hard on a daily basis. I fully expected the clutch and brakes to have worn out by now, giving me an excuse to install my new pads. But no luck. Plenty of meat left. I think this Duratec V-6 was really put together well. Where the wear shows is in the tires. I installed a set of 245/45/17 Bridgestone SO-3 Potenza Pole Positions in June and the dealer in December said they are more than 50% worn. Yeh...bring it on! (The smiles). I call my car a 4 wheel version of Six-Flags Magic Mountain. If you don't like roller coasters and G-forces, you will never appreciate the LS in it's element, and that is HANDLING. A stock LS is good for .84g. I think good tires will push that to .86. I love exploring the limits. A rare rain is an invitation to find traction limits. Try to find some fun in life. Explore the boundaries. Dirty Harry said that a man has to know his limitations. So it goes for your car as well. Please take the next freeway ramp with some vigor. And don't let those slammed Hondas and Eclipses get away with anything.
Hello room, I just wanted to ask a question. I have a friend in the market for a newer car under $25K. He is looking at a 2002 Nissan Maxima SE with leather pack, auto, sunroof, bose. He has been cross shopping other cars. So far he has came up with a Linc L.S. V8, an Acura CL coupe Type S, and a 2000 BMW 325i sedan. All cars have between 20-30K miles on them, except the BMW, it has 40K. All except the Maxima come with a certified pre own warrenty. The big selling point for the L.S. is 3.9% intrest rate up to 60 months. The Maxima is the cheapest out of the group at $ 20K. A lot of car for the money, except it doesn't have a pre own cert warrenty, and it's up at 36K. Out of all of the cars, we would just like some imput from the smart people on edmunds. Love to hear any comments. Ben
I travel virtually every week and have to rent crap ecnonboxes or mid size Detroilet Iron all the time. When I get off the plane get my luggage and take the bus to the parking lot my anticipation builds.
I already have my keys out when we stop by my 2000 LS V8 Sport. As soon as I get in the car I feel I am at HOME. I don't have to wait to get to my house for this feeling. My stress goes away as I turn up the sound system and run it up to about 80-85 on my way home. I travel late so there is rarely any obstacles/traffic in the way.
This car is effortless in it's consumption of huge lenghts of highway pavement with aplomb and silence. BUT if you get on it this car transforms in to a sports machine. The last 3 miles of my trip home is a VERY windy road with large elevation changes. After that trip from the airport and as I pull into my neighborhood the smile is bigger and bigger on my face.
Driving trash cars every week helps me appreciate my LS.
I like Stanny will likely buy my car at end of lease, or if my job is stable and the economy has improved I might go for a new 2003.
In the meantime I have my Toy, a 1999 Jeep Wrangler to play with (5 speed, convertable, MUD) if I need to row them myself.
Seems like the majority on this board are V6 adherents.... I wonder if the mountainous roads of East Tennessee are what's doing in the 6's early.... But that would seem odd, as 4cyl Toyotas are getting 200k+ all the time. I do love the LS, and it's one of the cars I'm going to have my wife look at next year when car shopping time comes (Camry, Solara, Highlander, used IS300, used E class, used BMW 3-series, used 5-series, used LS, and, darn it all, she likes the Passat). Conversely, has anyone heard of unusuall problems from the V8?
Your friend will be hard pressed to make a bad choice among the cars you mentioned. I can't comment on the Acura, don't know anything about them. There's no dealer near my home so I never considered it. The 3-series BMW is considerably smaller than the LS, therefore handles more nimbly in tight corners, at the expense of comfort and room. Personally I find the Maxima to be an extremely impressive car, and one of the best values on the road. I drove a lot of new cars in late 2000 before buying my LS, and the Maxima was my second favorite car, believe it or not. This is not to say it's even close to the same class of car as the LS, but a lot of car for the money. The '01 Maxima I drove was a terrific $25k car; my LS is a $37k car that felt like $50k, and still does.
You haven't mentioned which year or model LS your friend is looking at. That's important if performance is a priority. A V6 automatic might not stand out among the competition, but a V8 will lead the pack. And the LS will definitely out-handle the Nissan and the Acura, and at least hang in there with the BMW.
So, let's see, if size/comfort is important: buy the LS. If performance is important: buy the LS. If . . . well, sorry. I'd love to give you a completely unbiased opinion, but 67k trouble free and thoroughly enjoyable miles have left me pretty biased.
Slight temporary glitch in the content of the board, maybe. Overall, V8s are the majority of LS sales.
On the 3.9 liter V8: It's derived from the Jaguar engine that was first used in the XK8 roadster of the mid-'90s so, while fairly new in the 3.9 configuration, it's been around a while. Early cars had some problems with cracking exhaust manifolds due to workers getting carried away grinding down welds or casting flash. The symptoms are a loud ticking sound from the engine that diminishes as the heat from the warming engine expands the metal and closes the crack.
More recently, we're seeing some leaking valve covers. It's a spotty thing and not necessarily related to mileage; some cars with the problem have less than 40k miles, others with nearly 100k have been fine.
That's all the trouble I've heard of in over two years of close communication with LS owners, both here and on another site. There have been two or three engine replacements, but even this shouldn't raise too much alarm. Dealers are specifically NOT authorized to open the engine up; Lincoln wants their engineers to see any cause of failure firsthand so they replace the engine if they even suspect internal engine problems.
The engine has four chain-driven camshafts, and some people don't like the sound, a turbine-like whining most prevalent around 1800 rpm. Then again, a lot of people are used to belt-driven cams. Anyway, Lincoln changed the chains and sprockets for '02 to eliminate the noise.
And, BTW, it is a jewel. Even people who crave more power and want the 4.6 in the LS have to admit that the 3.9 is one of the smoothest V8s ever built. And while it's no drag racer, the acceleration from 60 mph will bring out the kid in anybody, yet the fuel economy is so close to the V6 that it's a non-factor.
that the poster child for the wonderfulness of the LS is someone who owns a manual transmission LS, which (by definition)is a V6. Many of the people who acquired LS's early on did so only because of the availability of the manual, plus the potential future availability of the V8 with a manual.
Many others didn't. They will slay you with the smooth joy of the 3.9 V8, and I certainly don't dispute that. The questions many of us have had for years have to do with why the V8 was never delivered with a manual. Since the Lincoln dealer cabal decided the manual was evil, it doesn't exist anymore. Fewer than 1% of LS's were sold with manuals, and the reasons why have mostly to do with the dealers and the marketing, not necessarily in that order.
Only a few people who post here own manuals. It's interesting that they are quoted. If the manual is gone, are these people, or their passion or joy in driving also removed? Does anyone care?
You missed a great opportunity, Stanny. There is a special tax break for vehicles in 2002. If you bought (that is purchased not leased) a new vehicle used >50% business, you can depreciate up to 30% of the vehicle in tax year 2002. (you can also get even more of a writeoff by using the sec 179 deduction, but you may have to recapture part of that writeoff in later years when you dispose of the vehicle or when its business use drops below 50%).
If you bought a vehicle that weighs more than 6000 lbs. I think you can write off $22K of it in 2002. While this provision was intended for real trucks used in business, some of the big SUV's qualify, so us taxpayers ar helping people to purchase Hummers, Excursions, etc.
I have not heard of any significant problems with the Duratec engines. Comments by techs on FRT say 120K - 150K is a piece of cake for Duratec's as long as reasonable maintainence is performed.
There was a story on a certain web site about the cranks seizing on Duratec's, but that story turned out to be false.
I just read a thread somewhere (can't remember where) about VW Passat power window failures. Seems that the plastic retainer fails and the window crashes or jams. The post went on to say that a lot of Passat owners were stuck with jammed windows waiting for a re-engineered metal part to become available.
One of the initial reasons Lincoln gave for not offering the V8/manual combination was that Getrag, the manufacturer of the transmission, would not warranty the transmission if mated to the V8. Just passing on the information. I have no dog in this fight; I prefer the automatic in this type of car, but agree that a V8 stick option would go a long way to spreading the news of the LS as a performance car.
slunar, that sounds strangely familiar.:) Especially since we were told by Lincoln engineers that the LS window regulators were made by the same company that supplies a couple certain prestigious German car makers.
I heard that the only reason for the V6 Manual was for the European market that Jac wanted to enter. But when Volvo was purchased, there was no need to spend the money to introduce Lincoln to the continent. This probably explains why the Manual has the funny "cut-out" in the lower front bumper. It's for the required tow hook in Europe. Once Volvo came on board, the V6 Manual was superfluous. The small sales quantities were totally unjustifiable. One look at the Getrag and you will see the problem. It is so tiny, I had to ask the guys in Wixom if some of the tranny was in the bellhousing. Nope. It only takes 1.1 QUARTS of fluid. I think a V-8 might tear it a new... Yes, I know about the SUV/IRS game but I don't want one. I would fall asleep driving an SUV. Probably why Mel Gibson's wife in Signs got killed. My kids oggle over every new H2 they see. I just recall Car and Driver's award to the Hummer H2 in winning 4 of the 10 Worst Performers in 2002 Award: Worst in 70 to 0 Braking Worst in Roadholding, 062g. Worst in City Fuel Economy - 10 mpg Worst in Observed Overall Fuel Economy - 10 mpg Really, you could drive an F350 Dually pulling a trailer and not do any worse. And do you think these Socal Hummer owners will really go out and climb rocks? I can just see the phone call now" "Hello AAA Insurance? I just rolled my new Hummer..." Right. Anybody that buys one of those had better have a boat load of money to buy, insure and maintain it. Not to mention the gas bill. But it's so cool to battle those Chevy Sprints at the intersection for the fastest slug award.
Don't forget that passenger automobiles (under 6,000 lbs GW) are limited to a maximum depreciation deduction of $7,660 (including the 30% bonus and S179 elections, if applicable) for tax year 2002. This amount is assuming that the vehicle is used 100% for business. This amount would need to be reduced if the business use is not 100%. If the vehicle does not qualify for the 30% bonus depreciation, the maximum allowable deduction would be $3,060. For vehicles weighing 6,000 lbs or more, S179 could be claimed up to a maximum of $24,000 for tax year 2002, assuming 100% business use.
I have owned a Plymouth Valiant, Dodge Aspen (Ouch, these were the high school years) a Ford Escort GT, 3 Taurus SHO's in Succession and finally the Lincoln. Of course my Jeep is now a Daimler/Chrysler product.
THis is interesting: Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN) for 6 a.m. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG). He put on a dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA). After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA) he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO) to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN) to the radio (MADE IN INDIA) he got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY) and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN JOB. At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day, Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL) poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE) and turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in.....AMERICA.....
cpa4u, I guss your handle says it all. I'm not a CPA so I was just relating what I head. In my case I bought a new car in 2002, which is used for business. I didn't even know that there was a special tax provision until I was getting all my info. together for tax season. In my case (taxes not done yet) it looks like the special tax provision for 2002 increases my depreciation deduction by about $1,500. (That's what I was referring to Stanny, no, I wasn't suggesting you buy a Hummer).
In any case for 100% business used vehicles (under 6,000 lb) allowing a $7K deduction vs. $3K is what I call a significant tax break.
As far as the access door in the bumper goes, all '00-01Sport models have this door (& I think '02's too), V6, V8, MTX or auto. Base models do not have the tow hook access door. The 2003's appear to not have tow hook doors, so yo are right Stanny, it looks like Lincoln has dropped all plans to sell in Europe.
I had an '89. I believe the V6 SHO motors were built in Japan by Yamaha and sent to Atlanta to be mated with the car. I believe Ford built the V8 SHO motors. This may explain the cam sprocket failures.
and mileage reimbursement (25 cents per mile) for business useage is it still possible to do these deductions if you use the car for business primarily (80% of the time) ???
the LS in Europe, or was it because Jaguar was already nearly there with essentially the same car? Either way, I've never thought it mattered much whether the LS sold there or not. I've never bought into the notion of European automotive superiority.
You can deduct the difference between the going rate allowed by the IRS and what your company pays, ie, last year was $0.33/mile allowed, so you can deduct the $0.08/mile that you were not reimbursed up to the 80% usage you had. It's all under the standard deduction for auto usage form that the IRS has.
Of course, some people just claim the entire $0.33 and don't tell the IRS they were reimbursed that part by the company cause it doesn't show up on the W2, so the IRS doesn't know, another one of those tax loopholes. Don't get caught in an audit though, cause you have to pay back the amount and penalties for filing wrong.
If you got something like turbotax, go thru it, it simplifies all of this stuff and means you don't have to read thru the numerous IRS pubs to figure it out, like I did.
The V8 SHO was a Yamaha design. I thought that Yamaha built them too, at least the heads. The probem is that the cams are swaged on the sprockets. Ford OHC engines designed and build in the US are not built like that. Really sounds like the root of the problem came from Yamaha not Ford.
I've heard two different stories. One was that the engines were made by Yamaha in Japan. The other story is that the engines were only designed in Japan and actually made in the Southeast by Outboard Marine Corporation (Evinrude), the same compny that later made the Corvette DOHC 32 valve ZR-1 engine. What IS the story?
The LT5 engine used in the ZR-1 Corvette was built by Mercury Marine in Stillwater, Oklahoma.
That little tow-hook trapdoor was present on all 2000-2002 LSs except for the LSE, which had a different front fascia. The door is not present on the 2003 LS.
and 5 speed was the fastest SHO of them all. After that it was downhill as content/weight were added. There was even a special Plus model with an aluminum hood for lower weight.
I had a 90 5 speed, a 95 5 speed, and a 98 V8 Auto (only available in auto).
The V8 sure turned heads with the K&N Conical intake and magnaflows. No one expects to see a Taurus but sounding like a Saleen Mustang!
FWIW, the rear window actuators in MBZ have been crap for over a decade. My 88 even has the problem. So if Lincoln's using the same supplier as Benz, no wonder there are issues.
I replaced my non-sport shocks with sport shocks a while ago. The list price is $113.46 per shock. My dealers parts department gives members of a certain club (email me for information if you're interested) a discount. If you're mechanically inclined, the job isn't too bad. As the shocks have coil-over springs, you will need a spring compressor. If you would rather have it done, the dealer will probably charge an hour labor per shock, plus the shock. You could also buy the shocks from the dealer and have an independent shop, or a place like Pep Boys, install them. Their labor charge will usually be less.
The base LS '00-02 front bumber cover is different than the sport. The side marker lights are larger and the cover is shaped different where the chrome trim strip attaches.
Good photos of the front of a base LS are hard to come by, but if you look at page 8 of the Lincoln Accessories catalog, you will see a base LS and there does not appear to be a tow hook door.
If you don't have that catalog, I can e-mail you a photo of my '00 LS V8 base, which does not have the tow hook door.
Comments
Q2) When I am stopped (and move the gear selector to manual or selectric or whatever that position is called) I can't get the selector lamp to indicate 1st gear. I can select either 2nd or 3rd prior to the car beginning to roll. Is that normal?
Q3) I took it up to 100mph today on an abandoned highway and felt a good amount of vibration. When I hit the brakes the steering wheel and front increased its vibration. Warped rotors?
Q4) I asked the question in my prior e-mail; What is the dollar value of the vehicle? I see them listed in the low $20's but Edmunds and KBB rate it lower (70,000 miles gets it to $17's).
Thanks
I have a '00 3.9 with a K&N filter... after a few miles I pulled the Air Box out and cut the bottom off... that stock box offers no flow at all regardless of the filter. No droning but there is a slight intake noise when you get on it (not a bad thing, at least its now getting air :-)
Jack
Q2) Gear Selector: The 2000-2002 models will start in 1st gear in D5 or in SST when there is 60% or more throttle applied. The reason for this has to do with a quirk in the EPA testing procedure. The 2003s will start in 1st in SST. It is fine to start in 2 or 3. On very slipperly road conditions, 3rd will probably improve traction.
Q3) The vibration is most likely caused by wheel balancing, warped rotors, or bad tires. Uneven tightening of the lug nuts will warp rotors. Use a hand torque wrench and not an impact wrench to resolve this problem. Also try rebalancing the tires. If that does not work, try the road force balancer by Hunter. This is not a typical problem with an LS and should be able to be resolved.
Q4. Other than checking web sites and looking at comparable used cars, I have no suggestions.
Let me handle him and don't waste your time, your keystrokes or the bandwidth.
I imagine with regular service, almost any car (Yugos and Kias aside) can go over 200K miles. Heck, my Dad had a 1980 Crown Victoria with 250K miles when he sold it. It used no oil and ran great. The interior was looking 200K+ miles, though. The kid he sold it to burnt it to the ground with, IIRC 275K miles.
Q1) I'll try to cool off on the trani topic. I have an explorer that needed a trani at 75,000, so I'm a little on edge.
Q2) so is it normal for me to not be able to see the SST indicator say 1st?
Your Q3 does sound like a balance issue. If the car had been sitting idle for a while before your test drive it could also be flat spots on the tires.
jdell1, that's a favorite performance tweak. If you don't like the noise, you can buy the '02 airbox for around $150. Much less restrictive than the '00-'01, but quiet.
bhoskins, nope, looks and a nicer interior are about all that sets the Jag apart. That and a little more horsepower due to variable cam timing. Based on the S-type board on this site, the Jaguar seems a bit trouble-prone compared to the LS. But it's not a real active board so the sample size is probably unfairly small. The Jag is supposedly tuned for a little more comfortable ride at the expense of some handling performance, but most people who have driven both can't tell the difference.
Oops, that's 6 cents. Well, adjusted for inflation . . .
re: the balance issue: The tires were changed 10,000 miles ago.
I am a little nervous about buying the car because every time I drive it..........I want to go fast!!!!!!.
I'll keep you posted on my progress.
My friend has also put some kind of aftermarket exhaust system (downstream of the catalytic converter). Dynaflow??? it sounds throaty. He claims due to the free flow exhaust the horsepower is increased. Does anyone know how much the HP increases with this type of system?
Re: V6 LS - what's 'iffy' about em? (You can guess probably that I have one. A 5speed.)
Thanks
I think we need to change that. Public perception here on Edmunds is based of what they read in these forums. If we aren't the big cheerleaders for the LS, they will rightly assume that there isn't much to take a look at. They would be wrong.
I dredged up a couple of posts from a long time ago from someone that is probably going to go over to the G35 camp purely because the G35 has a manual. His comments are as appropriate today in describing the LS driving experience as they were when he first posted them:
=================================================
The REAL reason people buy a LS or an ode to the LS driving experience by Stanny1
#749 of 790: Right On Ray (stanny1) Mon 20 Nov '00 (04:53 PM)
The real turn-on is when you take that sweeper at near terminal velocity. You're really doing a controlled 4 wheel drift,teasing the Firehawks with just a little more throttle. The tires are getting a real greasy feeling,and you know you are at the limit and you know the limit,and you are one with the car.You lean to compensate for the G force,your heartbeat climbs and the adrenalin flows.The turn is only for mere seconds,but time seems to stand
still.This is the LS moment,when you and the car are one.As you straighten out,you look in the rear view mirror.The 5 series is so far back most people couldn't recognize the marque.You now remember that there is a difference between just owning an ultimate driving machine and driving one. The LS owner knows the difference.He owns to drive,not drives to own.
#752 of 790: Joe Lincoln (stanny1) Mon 20 Nov '00 (06:10 PM)
I just wrote it from "feeling".I have this banked 180 degree turn near my house,part of a temporary off ramp related to freeway construction.It's an "off-camber" turn (right hand) which my modified Toyota Cressida five speed could never do because it's battery was at the front driver's side.But the LS has the battery in the trunk -that's magic for
front to rear balance and a concept called "polar moment of inertia".An incredible amount of engineering went into the LS suspension.It belongs on a Formula 1 and not on a street car.It so outclasses a BMW Macpherson strut that they aren't even on the same planet.If you had to put the essence of the LS into a few words,they are
"balance","handling","control".That turn is signed at 25mph;I take it at 60+.I never thought Firehawks,especially ones rated at 500 wear,could grab like that,since I have paid hundreds for Goodyears and Fuldas gumballs with ratings of 160-240 that don't have that kind of grip.My conclusion is that the LS suspension is so sophisticated,it keeps the tire at the optimum "slip angle" at all times.If my ball joints were loose,I would have hit the concrete barrier on that turn months ago.I value handling more than any attribute in a car,and the LS is the best value in
handling out there.The DEW98 platform also gets credit for its incredible stiffness.I don't think a cross brace would help a bit.You would have to spend a lot of bucks on this chassis to get just a small improvement,and you might just screw it up just as easily.The only improvement I could imagine would be lightweight alloy wheels (non-chrome) in the exact factory offset,perhaps in an 8" width.And we're talking real money here,over 2 big ones for a set.And you may need instrumentation to tell the difference in handling even if you are brave enough
to use it. so,Joe, go find a good off-ramp and have some fun.Leave a little space for the slide.The LS can do excellent four wheel drifts.
I remember that post of Stan's very well. It was about a month after I bought my LS. It's as dead on right today as it was then. My daily on ramp is also marked 25, but I can only take it around 50 because it is really bumpy from heavy truck traffic, though I do lean on the throttle a good bit towards the end.:) The way the suspension soaks up those bumps and keeps the tires in contact with the pavement is amazing.
Had a friend with me on the interstate recently. He raved about the smooth ride, and I mentioned that the LS was considered a little rough & noisy compared to "pure" luxury sedans, and that was the small price we pay for handling. He said, "What do you mean?" so I just sort of flicked the steering wheel sharply about 30 degrees, then right back and, presto, we had changed lanes. No protest from the tires, no swaying body, it was neither difficult nor uncomfortable. Look, point, and it's there.
My daily commute is 90 miles round trip. I still get up in the morning looking forward to it, 27 months and 67k miles after buying the LS. My only doubt when I bought it was that, after a year or so, it would be just another car and I'd have these great honking payments for years. Now I know, it just ain't gonna happen.
Considering the residual on the LS will be in Honda Civic territory, the payment will be very affordable. My wife's Volvo wagon is almost paid off so that free's up $500 a month for more cars.
Since I'm self employed, I can write off 80% of my lease payments. People in real estate commonly bite off big leases on some pretty expensive cars because Uncle Sam is helping out big time.
I look at it this way. Can I buy a 3 year old car with 40,000 miles in great condition for the residual of this car, considering it will probably be a little over 50% of the $32k I paid for it? I'd rather have my LS than a new Honda Civic.
Prices have moved up considerably in just 3 years on most cars. The dollars now are cheaper, especially in financing.
So that's the plan. Keep the LS for clients and family and take the toy out when I want to get nasty solo.
My 2000 MTX LS still satisfies. At 35,000 miles, no squeakes or rattles. I still take 25 mph off/on ramps at 60. The engine still has not missed a tick and it hits redline regularly. I'm sure most people can't figure out what it is, and you still don't see another LS for days here in San Diego.
The only problems I have had were a leaky coolant reservoir (rare) and both window regulators were replaced when one malfunctioned, early on and under warranty. The dealer, Witt LM, has treated me as if I had bought a Lexus LS430.
I have never driven a car this hard on a daily basis. I fully expected the clutch and brakes to have worn out by now, giving me an excuse to install my new pads. But no luck. Plenty of meat left. I think this Duratec V-6 was really put together well.
Where the wear shows is in the tires. I installed a set of 245/45/17 Bridgestone SO-3 Potenza Pole Positions in June and the dealer in December said they are more than 50% worn. Yeh...bring it on! (The smiles).
I call my car a 4 wheel version of Six-Flags Magic Mountain. If you don't like roller coasters and G-forces, you will never appreciate the LS in it's element, and that is HANDLING.
A stock LS is good for .84g. I think good tires will push that to .86. I love exploring the limits. A rare rain is an invitation to find traction limits.
Try to find some fun in life. Explore the boundaries. Dirty Harry said that a man has to know his limitations. So it goes for your car as well.
Please take the next freeway ramp with some vigor. And don't let those slammed Hondas and Eclipses get away with anything.
I just wanted to ask a question. I have a friend in the market for a newer car under $25K. He is looking at a 2002 Nissan Maxima SE with leather pack, auto, sunroof, bose. He has been cross shopping other cars. So far he has came up with a Linc L.S. V8, an Acura CL coupe Type S, and a 2000 BMW 325i sedan. All cars have between 20-30K miles on them, except the BMW, it has 40K. All except the Maxima come with a certified pre own warrenty. The big selling point for the L.S. is 3.9% intrest rate up to 60 months. The Maxima is the cheapest out of the group at $ 20K. A lot of car for the money, except it doesn't have a pre own cert warrenty, and it's up at 36K. Out of all of the cars, we would just like some imput from the smart people on edmunds. Love to hear any comments.
Ben
I already have my keys out when we stop by my 2000 LS V8 Sport. As soon as I get in the car I feel I am at HOME. I don't have to wait to get to my house for this feeling. My stress goes away as I turn up the sound system and run it up to about 80-85 on my way home. I travel late so there is rarely any obstacles/traffic in the way.
This car is effortless in it's consumption of huge lenghts of highway pavement with aplomb and silence. BUT if you get on it this car transforms in to a sports machine. The last 3 miles of my trip home is a VERY windy road with large elevation changes. After that trip from the airport and as I pull into my neighborhood the smile is bigger and bigger on my face.
Driving trash cars every week helps me appreciate my LS.
I like Stanny will likely buy my car at end of lease, or if my job is stable and the economy has improved I might go for a new 2003.
In the meantime I have my Toy, a 1999 Jeep Wrangler to play with (5 speed, convertable, MUD) if I need to row them myself.
You haven't mentioned which year or model LS your friend is looking at. That's important if performance is a priority. A V6 automatic might not stand out among the competition, but a V8 will lead the pack. And the LS will definitely out-handle the Nissan and the Acura, and at least hang in there with the BMW.
So, let's see, if size/comfort is important: buy the LS. If performance is important: buy the LS. If . . . well, sorry. I'd love to give you a completely unbiased opinion, but 67k trouble free and thoroughly enjoyable miles have left me pretty biased.
On the 3.9 liter V8: It's derived from the Jaguar engine that was first used in the XK8 roadster of the mid-'90s so, while fairly new in the 3.9 configuration, it's been around a while. Early cars had some problems with cracking exhaust manifolds due to workers getting carried away grinding down welds or casting flash. The symptoms are a loud ticking sound from the engine that diminishes as the heat from the warming engine expands the metal and closes the crack.
More recently, we're seeing some leaking valve covers. It's a spotty thing and not necessarily related to mileage; some cars with the problem have less than 40k miles, others with nearly 100k have been fine.
That's all the trouble I've heard of in over two years of close communication with LS owners, both here and on another site. There have been two or three engine replacements, but even this shouldn't raise too much alarm. Dealers are specifically NOT authorized to open the engine up; Lincoln wants their engineers to see any cause of failure firsthand so they replace the engine if they even suspect internal engine problems.
The engine has four chain-driven camshafts, and some people don't like the sound, a turbine-like whining most prevalent around 1800 rpm. Then again, a lot of people are used to belt-driven cams. Anyway, Lincoln changed the chains and sprockets for '02 to eliminate the noise.
And, BTW, it is a jewel. Even people who crave more power and want the 4.6 in the LS have to admit that the 3.9 is one of the smoothest V8s ever built. And while it's no drag racer, the acceleration from 60 mph will bring out the kid in anybody, yet the fuel economy is so close to the V6 that it's a non-factor.
Many others didn't. They will slay you with the smooth joy of the 3.9 V8, and I certainly don't dispute that. The questions many of us have had for years have to do with why the V8 was never delivered with a manual. Since the Lincoln dealer cabal decided the manual was evil, it doesn't exist anymore. Fewer than 1% of LS's were sold with manuals, and the reasons why have mostly to do with the dealers and the marketing, not necessarily in that order.
Only a few people who post here own manuals. It's interesting that they are quoted. If the manual is gone, are these people, or their passion or joy in driving also removed? Does anyone care?
If you bought a vehicle that weighs more than 6000 lbs. I think you can write off $22K of it in 2002. While this provision was intended for real trucks used in business, some of the big SUV's qualify, so us taxpayers ar helping people to purchase Hummers, Excursions, etc.
There was a story on a certain web site about the cranks seizing on Duratec's, but that story turned out to be false.
I just read a thread somewhere (can't remember where) about VW Passat power window failures. Seems that the plastic retainer fails and the window crashes or jams. The post went on to say that a lot of Passat owners were stuck with jammed windows waiting for a re-engineered metal part to become available.
Anyone ever heard of anything like this? -:)
slunar, that sounds strangely familiar.:) Especially since we were told by Lincoln engineers that the LS window regulators were made by the same company that supplies a couple certain prestigious German car makers.
But when Volvo was purchased, there was no need to spend the money to introduce Lincoln to the continent.
This probably explains why the Manual has the funny "cut-out" in the lower front bumper. It's for the required tow hook in Europe.
Once Volvo came on board, the V6 Manual was superfluous. The small sales quantities were totally unjustifiable.
One look at the Getrag and you will see the problem. It is so tiny, I had to ask the guys in Wixom if some of the tranny was in the bellhousing. Nope. It only takes 1.1 QUARTS of fluid. I think a V-8 might tear it a new...
Yes, I know about the SUV/IRS game but I don't want one. I would fall asleep driving an SUV. Probably why Mel Gibson's wife in Signs got killed. My kids oggle over every new H2 they see. I just recall Car and Driver's award to the Hummer H2 in winning 4 of the 10 Worst Performers in 2002 Award:
Worst in 70 to 0 Braking
Worst in Roadholding, 062g.
Worst in City Fuel Economy - 10 mpg
Worst in Observed Overall Fuel Economy - 10 mpg
Really, you could drive an F350 Dually pulling a trailer and not do any worse.
And do you think these Socal Hummer owners will really go out and climb rocks?
I can just see the phone call now" "Hello AAA Insurance? I just rolled my new Hummer..."
Right.
Anybody that buys one of those had better have a boat load of money to buy, insure and maintain it. Not to mention the gas bill. But it's so cool to battle those Chevy Sprints at the intersection for the fastest slug award.
THis is interesting:
Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN) for 6 a.m. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG). He put on a dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA). After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA) he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO) to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN) to the radio (MADE IN INDIA) he got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY) and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN JOB. At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day, Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL) poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE) and turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in.....AMERICA.....
In any case for 100% business used vehicles (under 6,000 lb) allowing a $7K deduction vs. $3K is what I call a significant tax break.
As far as the access door in the bumper goes, all '00-01Sport models have this door (& I think '02's too), V6, V8, MTX or auto. Base models do not have the tow hook access door. The 2003's appear to not have tow hook doors, so yo are right Stanny, it looks like Lincoln has dropped all plans to sell in Europe.
Thanks
Of course, some people just claim the entire $0.33 and don't tell the IRS they were reimbursed that part by the company cause it doesn't show up on the W2, so the IRS doesn't know, another one of those tax loopholes. Don't get caught in an audit though, cause you have to pay back the amount and penalties for filing wrong.
If you got something like turbotax, go thru it, it simplifies all of this stuff and means you don't have to read thru the numerous IRS pubs to figure it out, like I did.
One was that the engines were made by Yamaha in Japan.
The other story is that the engines were only designed in Japan and actually made in the Southeast by Outboard Marine Corporation (Evinrude), the same compny that later made the Corvette DOHC 32 valve ZR-1 engine.
What IS the story?
That little tow-hook trapdoor was present on all 2000-2002 LSs except for the LSE, which had a different front fascia. The door is not present on the 2003 LS.
everything still very tight, but ride and handling starting to deteriorate.
Has anybody replaced the shocks/struts. How much did it cost?. I'll want to go with stock LM parts as this is a company leased car.
Inputs appreciated.
I had a 90 5 speed, a 95 5 speed, and a 98 V8 Auto (only available in auto).
The V8 sure turned heads with the K&N Conical intake and magnaflows. No one expects to see a Taurus but sounding like a Saleen Mustang!
Fun cars but not nearly as refined as the LS is.
Good photos of the front of a base LS are hard to come by, but if you look at page 8 of the Lincoln Accessories catalog, you will see a base LS and there does not appear to be a tow hook door.
If you don't have that catalog, I can e-mail you a photo of my '00 LS V8 base, which does not have the tow hook door.