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Comments
Q2) When I am stopped (and move the gear selector to manual or selectric or whatever that position is called) I can't get the selector lamp to indicate 1st gear. I can select either 2nd or 3rd prior to the car beginning to roll. Is that normal?
Q3) I took it up to 100mph today on an abandoned highway and felt a good amount of vibration. When I hit the brakes the steering wheel and front increased its vibration. Warped rotors?
Q4) I asked the question in my prior e-mail; What is the dollar value of the vehicle? I see them listed in the low $20's but Edmunds and KBB rate it lower (70,000 miles gets it to $17's).
Thanks
I have a '00 3.9 with a K&N filter... after a few miles I pulled the Air Box out and cut the bottom off... that stock box offers no flow at all regardless of the filter. No droning but there is a slight intake noise when you get on it (not a bad thing, at least its now getting air :-)
Jack
Q2) Gear Selector: The 2000-2002 models will start in 1st gear in D5 or in SST when there is 60% or more throttle applied. The reason for this has to do with a quirk in the EPA testing procedure. The 2003s will start in 1st in SST. It is fine to start in 2 or 3. On very slipperly road conditions, 3rd will probably improve traction.
Q3) The vibration is most likely caused by wheel balancing, warped rotors, or bad tires. Uneven tightening of the lug nuts will warp rotors. Use a hand torque wrench and not an impact wrench to resolve this problem. Also try rebalancing the tires. If that does not work, try the road force balancer by Hunter. This is not a typical problem with an LS and should be able to be resolved.
Q4. Other than checking web sites and looking at comparable used cars, I have no suggestions.
Let me handle him and don't waste your time, your keystrokes or the bandwidth.
I imagine with regular service, almost any car (Yugos and Kias aside) can go over 200K miles. Heck, my Dad had a 1980 Crown Victoria with 250K miles when he sold it. It used no oil and ran great. The interior was looking 200K+ miles, though. The kid he sold it to burnt it to the ground with, IIRC 275K miles.
Q1) I'll try to cool off on the trani topic. I have an explorer that needed a trani at 75,000, so I'm a little on edge.
Q2) so is it normal for me to not be able to see the SST indicator say 1st?
Your Q3 does sound like a balance issue. If the car had been sitting idle for a while before your test drive it could also be flat spots on the tires.
jdell1, that's a favorite performance tweak. If you don't like the noise, you can buy the '02 airbox for around $150. Much less restrictive than the '00-'01, but quiet.
bhoskins, nope, looks and a nicer interior are about all that sets the Jag apart. That and a little more horsepower due to variable cam timing. Based on the S-type board on this site, the Jaguar seems a bit trouble-prone compared to the LS. But it's not a real active board so the sample size is probably unfairly small. The Jag is supposedly tuned for a little more comfortable ride at the expense of some handling performance, but most people who have driven both can't tell the difference.
Oops, that's 6 cents. Well, adjusted for inflation . . .
re: the balance issue: The tires were changed 10,000 miles ago.
I am a little nervous about buying the car because every time I drive it..........I want to go fast!!!!!!.
I'll keep you posted on my progress.
My friend has also put some kind of aftermarket exhaust system (downstream of the catalytic converter). Dynaflow??? it sounds throaty. He claims due to the free flow exhaust the horsepower is increased. Does anyone know how much the HP increases with this type of system?
Re: V6 LS - what's 'iffy' about em? (You can guess probably that I have one. A 5speed.)
Thanks
I think we need to change that. Public perception here on Edmunds is based of what they read in these forums. If we aren't the big cheerleaders for the LS, they will rightly assume that there isn't much to take a look at. They would be wrong.
I dredged up a couple of posts from a long time ago from someone that is probably going to go over to the G35 camp purely because the G35 has a manual. His comments are as appropriate today in describing the LS driving experience as they were when he first posted them:
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The REAL reason people buy a LS or an ode to the LS driving experience by Stanny1
#749 of 790: Right On Ray (stanny1) Mon 20 Nov '00 (04:53 PM)
The real turn-on is when you take that sweeper at near terminal velocity. You're really doing a controlled 4 wheel drift,teasing the Firehawks with just a little more throttle. The tires are getting a real greasy feeling,and you know you are at the limit and you know the limit,and you are one with the car.You lean to compensate for the G force,your heartbeat climbs and the adrenalin flows.The turn is only for mere seconds,but time seems to stand
still.This is the LS moment,when you and the car are one.As you straighten out,you look in the rear view mirror.The 5 series is so far back most people couldn't recognize the marque.You now remember that there is a difference between just owning an ultimate driving machine and driving one. The LS owner knows the difference.He owns to drive,not drives to own.
#752 of 790: Joe Lincoln (stanny1) Mon 20 Nov '00 (06:10 PM)
I just wrote it from "feeling".I have this banked 180 degree turn near my house,part of a temporary off ramp related to freeway construction.It's an "off-camber" turn (right hand) which my modified Toyota Cressida five speed could never do because it's battery was at the front driver's side.But the LS has the battery in the trunk -that's magic for
front to rear balance and a concept called "polar moment of inertia".An incredible amount of engineering went into the LS suspension.It belongs on a Formula 1 and not on a street car.It so outclasses a BMW Macpherson strut that they aren't even on the same planet.If you had to put the essence of the LS into a few words,they are
"balance","handling","control".That turn is signed at 25mph;I take it at 60+.I never thought Firehawks,especially ones rated at 500 wear,could grab like that,since I have paid hundreds for Goodyears and Fuldas gumballs with ratings of 160-240 that don't have that kind of grip.My conclusion is that the LS suspension is so sophisticated,it keeps the tire at the optimum "slip angle" at all times.If my ball joints were loose,I would have hit the concrete barrier on that turn months ago.I value handling more than any attribute in a car,and the LS is the best value in
handling out there.The DEW98 platform also gets credit for its incredible stiffness.I don't think a cross brace would help a bit.You would have to spend a lot of bucks on this chassis to get just a small improvement,and you might just screw it up just as easily.The only improvement I could imagine would be lightweight alloy wheels (non-chrome) in the exact factory offset,perhaps in an 8" width.And we're talking real money here,over 2 big ones for a set.And you may need instrumentation to tell the difference in handling even if you are brave enough
to use it. so,Joe, go find a good off-ramp and have some fun.Leave a little space for the slide.The LS can do excellent four wheel drifts.
I remember that post of Stan's very well. It was about a month after I bought my LS. It's as dead on right today as it was then. My daily on ramp is also marked 25, but I can only take it around 50 because it is really bumpy from heavy truck traffic, though I do lean on the throttle a good bit towards the end.:) The way the suspension soaks up those bumps and keeps the tires in contact with the pavement is amazing.
Had a friend with me on the interstate recently. He raved about the smooth ride, and I mentioned that the LS was considered a little rough & noisy compared to "pure" luxury sedans, and that was the small price we pay for handling. He said, "What do you mean?" so I just sort of flicked the steering wheel sharply about 30 degrees, then right back and, presto, we had changed lanes. No protest from the tires, no swaying body, it was neither difficult nor uncomfortable. Look, point, and it's there.
My daily commute is 90 miles round trip. I still get up in the morning looking forward to it, 27 months and 67k miles after buying the LS. My only doubt when I bought it was that, after a year or so, it would be just another car and I'd have these great honking payments for years. Now I know, it just ain't gonna happen.
Considering the residual on the LS will be in Honda Civic territory, the payment will be very affordable. My wife's Volvo wagon is almost paid off so that free's up $500 a month for more cars.
Since I'm self employed, I can write off 80% of my lease payments. People in real estate commonly bite off big leases on some pretty expensive cars because Uncle Sam is helping out big time.
I look at it this way. Can I buy a 3 year old car with 40,000 miles in great condition for the residual of this car, considering it will probably be a little over 50% of the $32k I paid for it? I'd rather have my LS than a new Honda Civic.
Prices have moved up considerably in just 3 years on most cars. The dollars now are cheaper, especially in financing.
So that's the plan. Keep the LS for clients and family and take the toy out when I want to get nasty solo.
My 2000 MTX LS still satisfies. At 35,000 miles, no squeakes or rattles. I still take 25 mph off/on ramps at 60. The engine still has not missed a tick and it hits redline regularly. I'm sure most people can't figure out what it is, and you still don't see another LS for days here in San Diego.
The only problems I have had were a leaky coolant reservoir (rare) and both window regulators were replaced when one malfunctioned, early on and under warranty. The dealer, Witt LM, has treated me as if I had bought a Lexus LS430.
I have never driven a car this hard on a daily basis. I fully expected the clutch and brakes to have worn out by now, giving me an excuse to install my new pads. But no luck. Plenty of meat left. I think this Duratec V-6 was really put together well.
Where the wear shows is in the tires. I installed a set of 245/45/17 Bridgestone SO-3 Potenza Pole Positions in June and the dealer in December said they are more than 50% worn. Yeh...bring it on! (The smiles).
I call my car a 4 wheel version of Six-Flags Magic Mountain. If you don't like roller coasters and G-forces, you will never appreciate the LS in it's element, and that is HANDLING.
A stock LS is good for .84g. I think good tires will push that to .86. I love exploring the limits. A rare rain is an invitation to find traction limits.
Try to find some fun in life. Explore the boundaries. Dirty Harry said that a man has to know his limitations. So it goes for your car as well.
Please take the next freeway ramp with some vigor. And don't let those slammed Hondas and Eclipses get away with anything.
I just wanted to ask a question. I have a friend in the market for a newer car under $25K. He is looking at a 2002 Nissan Maxima SE with leather pack, auto, sunroof, bose. He has been cross shopping other cars. So far he has came up with a Linc L.S. V8, an Acura CL coupe Type S, and a 2000 BMW 325i sedan. All cars have between 20-30K miles on them, except the BMW, it has 40K. All except the Maxima come with a certified pre own warrenty. The big selling point for the L.S. is 3.9% intrest rate up to 60 months. The Maxima is the cheapest out of the group at $ 20K. A lot of car for the money, except it doesn't have a pre own cert warrenty, and it's up at 36K. Out of all of the cars, we would just like some imput from the smart people on edmunds. Love to hear any comments.
Ben
I already have my keys out when we stop by my 2000 LS V8 Sport. As soon as I get in the car I feel I am at HOME. I don't have to wait to get to my house for this feeling. My stress goes away as I turn up the sound system and run it up to about 80-85 on my way home. I travel late so there is rarely any obstacles/traffic in the way.
This car is effortless in it's consumption of huge lenghts of highway pavement with aplomb and silence. BUT if you get on it this car transforms in to a sports machine. The last 3 miles of my trip home is a VERY windy road with large elevation changes. After that trip from the airport and as I pull into my neighborhood the smile is bigger and bigger on my face.
Driving trash cars every week helps me appreciate my LS.
I like Stanny will likely buy my car at end of lease, or if my job is stable and the economy has improved I might go for a new 2003.
In the meantime I have my Toy, a 1999 Jeep Wrangler to play with (5 speed, convertable, MUD) if I need to row them myself.
You haven't mentioned which year or model LS your friend is looking at. That's important if performance is a priority. A V6 automatic might not stand out among the competition, but a V8 will lead the pack. And the LS will definitely out-handle the Nissan and the Acura, and at least hang in there with the BMW.
So, let's see, if size/comfort is important: buy the LS. If performance is important: buy the LS. If . . . well, sorry. I'd love to give you a completely unbiased opinion, but 67k trouble free and thoroughly enjoyable miles have left me pretty biased.
On the 3.9 liter V8: It's derived from the Jaguar engine that was first used in the XK8 roadster of the mid-'90s so, while fairly new in the 3.9 configuration, it's been around a while. Early cars had some problems with cracking exhaust manifolds due to workers getting carried away grinding down welds or casting flash. The symptoms are a loud ticking sound from the engine that diminishes as the heat from the warming engine expands the metal and closes the crack.
More recently, we're seeing some leaking valve covers. It's a spotty thing and not necessarily related to mileage; some cars with the problem have less than 40k miles, others with nearly 100k have been fine.
That's all the trouble I've heard of in over two years of close communication with LS owners, both here and on another site. There have been two or three engine replacements, but even this shouldn't raise too much alarm. Dealers are specifically NOT authorized to open the engine up; Lincoln wants their engineers to see any cause of failure firsthand so they replace the engine if they even suspect internal engine problems.
The engine has four chain-driven camshafts, and some people don't like the sound, a turbine-like whining most prevalent around 1800 rpm. Then again, a lot of people are used to belt-driven cams. Anyway, Lincoln changed the chains and sprockets for '02 to eliminate the noise.
And, BTW, it is a jewel. Even people who crave more power and want the 4.6 in the LS have to admit that the 3.9 is one of the smoothest V8s ever built. And while it's no drag racer, the acceleration from 60 mph will bring out the kid in anybody, yet the fuel economy is so close to the V6 that it's a non-factor.
Many others didn't. They will slay you with the smooth joy of the 3.9 V8, and I certainly don't dispute that. The questions many of us have had for years have to do with why the V8 was never delivered with a manual. Since the Lincoln dealer cabal decided the manual was evil, it doesn't exist anymore. Fewer than 1% of LS's were sold with manuals, and the reasons why have mostly to do with the dealers and the marketing, not necessarily in that order.
Only a few people who post here own manuals. It's interesting that they are quoted. If the manual is gone, are these people, or their passion or joy in driving also removed? Does anyone care?
If you bought a vehicle that weighs more than 6000 lbs. I think you can write off $22K of it in 2002. While this provision was intended for real trucks used in business, some of the big SUV's qualify, so us taxpayers ar helping people to purchase Hummers, Excursions, etc.
There was a story on a certain web site about the cranks seizing on Duratec's, but that story turned out to be false.
I just read a thread somewhere (can't remember where) about VW Passat power window failures. Seems that the plastic retainer fails and the window crashes or jams. The post went on to say that a lot of Passat owners were stuck with jammed windows waiting for a re-engineered metal part to become available.
Anyone ever heard of anything like this? -:)
slunar, that sounds strangely familiar.:) Especially since we were told by Lincoln engineers that the LS window regulators were made by the same company that supplies a couple certain prestigious German car makers.
But when Volvo was purchased, there was no need to spend the money to introduce Lincoln to the continent.
This probably explains why the Manual has the funny "cut-out" in the lower front bumper. It's for the required tow hook in Europe.
Once Volvo came on board, the V6 Manual was superfluous. The small sales quantities were totally unjustifiable.
One look at the Getrag and you will see the problem. It is so tiny, I had to ask the guys in Wixom if some of the tranny was in the bellhousing. Nope. It only takes 1.1 QUARTS of fluid. I think a V-8 might tear it a new...
Yes, I know about the SUV/IRS game but I don't want one. I would fall asleep driving an SUV. Probably why Mel Gibson's wife in Signs got killed. My kids oggle over every new H2 they see. I just recall Car and Driver's award to the Hummer H2 in winning 4 of the 10 Worst Performers in 2002 Award:
Worst in 70 to 0 Braking
Worst in Roadholding, 062g.
Worst in City Fuel Economy - 10 mpg
Worst in Observed Overall Fuel Economy - 10 mpg
Really, you could drive an F350 Dually pulling a trailer and not do any worse.
And do you think these Socal Hummer owners will really go out and climb rocks?
I can just see the phone call now" "Hello AAA Insurance? I just rolled my new Hummer..."
Right.
Anybody that buys one of those had better have a boat load of money to buy, insure and maintain it. Not to mention the gas bill. But it's so cool to battle those Chevy Sprints at the intersection for the fastest slug award.
THis is interesting:
Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN) for 6 a.m. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG). He put on a dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA). After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA) he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO) to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN) to the radio (MADE IN INDIA) he got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY) and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN JOB. At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day, Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL) poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE) and turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in.....AMERICA.....
In any case for 100% business used vehicles (under 6,000 lb) allowing a $7K deduction vs. $3K is what I call a significant tax break.
As far as the access door in the bumper goes, all '00-01Sport models have this door (& I think '02's too), V6, V8, MTX or auto. Base models do not have the tow hook access door. The 2003's appear to not have tow hook doors, so yo are right Stanny, it looks like Lincoln has dropped all plans to sell in Europe.
Thanks
Of course, some people just claim the entire $0.33 and don't tell the IRS they were reimbursed that part by the company cause it doesn't show up on the W2, so the IRS doesn't know, another one of those tax loopholes. Don't get caught in an audit though, cause you have to pay back the amount and penalties for filing wrong.
If you got something like turbotax, go thru it, it simplifies all of this stuff and means you don't have to read thru the numerous IRS pubs to figure it out, like I did.
One was that the engines were made by Yamaha in Japan.
The other story is that the engines were only designed in Japan and actually made in the Southeast by Outboard Marine Corporation (Evinrude), the same compny that later made the Corvette DOHC 32 valve ZR-1 engine.
What IS the story?
That little tow-hook trapdoor was present on all 2000-2002 LSs except for the LSE, which had a different front fascia. The door is not present on the 2003 LS.
everything still very tight, but ride and handling starting to deteriorate.
Has anybody replaced the shocks/struts. How much did it cost?. I'll want to go with stock LM parts as this is a company leased car.
Inputs appreciated.
I had a 90 5 speed, a 95 5 speed, and a 98 V8 Auto (only available in auto).
The V8 sure turned heads with the K&N Conical intake and magnaflows. No one expects to see a Taurus but sounding like a Saleen Mustang!
Fun cars but not nearly as refined as the LS is.
Good photos of the front of a base LS are hard to come by, but if you look at page 8 of the Lincoln Accessories catalog, you will see a base LS and there does not appear to be a tow hook door.
If you don't have that catalog, I can e-mail you a photo of my '00 LS V8 base, which does not have the tow hook door.