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Comments
Final figure on an 02 LS sport was $32,444.
It's leased so that works out to $485/month with 0 down. I'm happy.
Value has always been one of the LS's strong points, but this is the car deal of the century.
Wonder what'll happen when a bunch of younger risk-taking people buy up all the cheap used & off-lease LS's and start wrecking them at what is bound to be a higher rate than we've seen?
As always, let's wait and see.
Somehow, I don't think a pair of 8" exhaust tips is going to do wonders for my image of the LS.
I may prefer the vinyl top approach but I fear we may see both along with some wierd offset wheels and/or the hydraulic lifts that you see on low riders.
Add the bright red L.E.D. wiper blades and the rest of the J.C. Whitney catalog. Hey, we may even get our own catalog section like the VW Bug.
But it's the two wing bare aluminum adjustable spoiler that will really turn my stomach.
Like who said we've got no aftermarket parts to choose from?
Increased car insurance rates may be the least of our problems compared with dealing with our new stereotyped image.
It took along time for me to get used to seeing senior citizens driving Z06's.
But at least money separates the idiots from these cars.
I fear that won't help us with the LS.
http://www.insure.com/CustomCenters/AOL/index.cfm?StoryID=44
The 10 most expensive 2002 vehicles to insure are:
1. Mitsubishi Montero Sport
2. Chevrolet Corvette Convertible
3. Lexus GS 430
4. Cadillac Escalade
5. BMW 7 Series
6. Honda Civic Coupe
7. Chevrolet Corvette Coupe
8. Mitsubishi Mirage Coupe
9. Toyota 4Runner
10. BMW 5 Series
thanks
Remember, high octane fuel has no more power or BTU than regular.
Higher octane fuel just resists heat and pressure better, and allows higher compression and higher temperature in the engine without detonating (pre-ignition).
Many think Calif fuel has lower BTU content, and that's why consumers say that their mileage is down 6-10% when compared to the fuel in other states.
One thing most octane boosters will do is lower combustion temperatures because many have alcohol of some sort.
This can help you pass the NOX portion of the biennial smog inspection.
But it's very hard to say whether our LSes will make more power with an octane increase. The engine is designed to run on 91 octane fuel.
Next time you are in Arizona, try filling up with Premium there and see if you can feel a difference. I doubt you could detect a difference except in mileage.
What's the story on that???
Stan,
I noticed a drop in performance (and a slight decrease in mileage) when we went from 92 to 91 octane. Part of that was I was out of state when the change happened last July. They have good gas in Neveda! I also read where the drop to 91 was part of Greyout Dufass' plan to elimante all higher octane gas and leave just 87. That would supposedly open up storage from gas that only the rich need. I haven't heard much about that lately.
Regards,
V.
You are correct in stating that octane rating is not a measure of energy content of gasoline. However, there are differences in gasoline energy content unrelated to octane. Oxygenated gasoline has about 4% lower energy content than normal gasoline. Most large cities and their surroundings now use oxygenated fuels to reduce certain pollutants. I bet California is rife with oxygenated fuels whereas areas like Nevada and Nebraska are devoid of it. Therefore many California folk believe their fuel is substandard but in reality it is the same as say Houston.
of the gas I am presently using? They can go up to 10 corn alcohol. It is rated at 89 octane and is actually cheaper than the 87 octane regular. Subsidized by the government.
It consistently got about 24 mpg in Calif on the highway on the old, higher octane Calif gas.
That 24 was with an "unloaded" car.
I kept meticulous records on gas mileage on this trip. Outside King Dufuss' state, the mileage increased to 27 mpg, with the last fill-up in Kingman, Arizona at Terrible Herbst and this last leg was over 30 mpg in this pig.
Now, back to oxygenated gas and lower mileage here in San Diego.
Gasohol contains ethyl alcohol and so the BTU content will be lower and the combustion temperature will be lower as any alcohol has a high latent heat value. That's why all Indy cars run methanol and ice forms on the intake system.
Haven't tried any of the other dealers, but have been quite satisfied with the service I get at Central Florida LM.
Good luck.
I do know that there is a significant difference between 70 mph and 80 mph in my expedition which I know is due to the increased wind resistance. LS shouldn't have that problem since it's not shaped like a giant cinder block.
It's probably time to hook up the old vacuum guage!
Are you sure?
Kudos!
:-)
Are you still practicing your yoga meditations?
:-)))
ohmmmmmmm... ohmmmmmmm ... ohmmmmmmm
;->
That is exactly what I figured a combination of Drag, and Gearing I just left it open-ended and of course, I know I am seriously over-simplifying it. I was just hoping it would be somewhere around 65-70 mph range with the gearing and drag on the LS. Arghhh... I don't think I will be trying the 45 MPH Test.. Even the Grannies will pass me at that speed! :P
Thanks for the answer.
Victor
I do a lot of highway travel, and have noticed a dropoff in fuel economy at sustained speeds of 85 or higher, maybe as much as 2 mpg below what it gets at 75. OTOH, it's the same at 75 as at 65.
Allen, since the engine is turning just under 2400 rpm @ 75 mph, nowhere near the torque peak, what else might be responsible for the mpg dropoff at higher speeds, if not aerodynamic drag? Not yanking your chain here, honestly wondering.
It's been about 30 years since I read Sir Harry Ricardo's "The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine" (written in 1922, I think).
I'll always remember Carnot's Formula though, and Harry always believed in the lowest intake temperature possible for the densest possible charge. Harry wouldn't like thermostats, but then engine life and emissions wasn't a big deal for Harry and his all-aluminum, overhead cam,hemi 4 valve racing engine that was very much ahead of his time.
My thanks to "lobsenza" for pointing me to Johnson-Sewell FLM here in central TX. I netted $6500 off MSRP with 0% financing and got what I hoped for my trade.
So many things to do now - change my profile, get a full LLSOC membership, read the detailing instructions, etc.
MKC
For a given engine configuration; e.g. 2003 3.9L, original calibration, there is an optimum "Fuel Island". (No, this isn't where you fill your tank)
Visualize an X-Y plot with RPM on the X-Axis, and HP on the Y-Axis. Now, forget about your previous experience with such a graph where all the data are collected at WOT.
On this graph, several points are collected at each RPM. This is done by increasing the load (on the dynamomater), then increasing throttle opening to maintain the same RPM. This produces a point with a higher HP output. For example, we could start at 2000 RPM, 20 HP, then increase the load & throttle opening to get 2000 RPM, 30 HP, and so on.
At each point the fuel consumption is measured. The units of measure are #fuel per HP-Hour. (It's called Brake-Specific Fuel consumption BSFC). This value is 'noted' next to each point
After running several points at each of several RPM, we have an X-Y plot with a whole mess of dots. Then we connect the dots that have nearly equal BSFC values. The result looks like a weather map with lines of constant pressure (Isobars), or a topographical map of constant elevations, but our lines define 'islands' of constant BSFC.
Now, back to highway fuel economy: For a given vehicle, it takes a given amount of HP to move it at a constant 70 MPH. Let's say that engine speed is 2000 RPM @ 70 MPH and HP required is 50 HP.
A look at he fuel island graph shows that the point (2000 RPM/50 HP) falls in a particular fuel island. Moving left or right on the 50 HP line (by changing RPM via gearing) will move us to a different fuel island. It is VERY possible that increasing RPM will move us to a more fuel-efficient fuel island ... for that vehicle speed.
In summary: To achieve the best fuel economy for your vehicle, operate at the speed and gear corresponding to its optimum fuel island.
Knowing this, I see that meeting CAFE has to be an enormous challenge for the engineers. As the vehicle goes through the CAFE test routine, it is literally 'Island Hopping'
Now I gotta take a nap & wait for some of the engineers, who graduated after the atom was invented, to correct the lapses in my memory.
But then again once all the '02's are gone I'd expect the incentives on the '03's to get better.
The first month around town was driving me crazy at 15/17 mpg. On the return leg from New Mexico with the cruise set at 80 we saw 27.7 mpg. This was with 4 adults, lots of luggage and 100 plus temps the entire trip.
I can't remember exactly but I guess rpm's were just under 2500.
We were so amazed I took a picture of the computer display.
The new 02 still is stiff and I'm seeing about 18 mpg with under 1,000 miles on her.
It's interesting to have a car that I've owned from day one that has that many miles on it. Only kept one other car past 100,000 miles and that was a 1979 Mercury Turbo Capri that used to eat a hole in my wallet every 10,000 miles or so.
The paint is still in great shape, the interior the same, the engine (3.9L V-8) still keeps making power with no clunking, tapping, clicking, or otherwise disfunctional noises. The transmission still shifts as good as when I first got it.
Only issue that I'm having is the rear sway bar bushings have worn so I just started getting a clunking from the rear.
Outside of that a fuel pump replacement for abnormal repairs and one set of headlights for condensation. No rear window regulator problems, no things falling off, no creaks and groans from a chassis loosening up. I can still jack the car up and balance it on two diagonal jack stands (and still get a kick out of doing it!)
My dealer, Rancho FLM, in Temecula, CA, has provided me with what I consider world-class VIP service since day one.
All in all, a very satisfying and very rewarding ownership experience. It will be interesting to report on what 200,000 miles brings. I suspect it will be more of the same.
I get 26 mpg on the highway and 21 around town consistently. And I still don't use any oil between oil changes.
Did I mention I LOVE this car?
Brian
Sort of like the out of body experience I get on on/off ramps.
That's why my new set of Bridgestone SO-3 Pole Positions, with only 8 months and very few thousand miles, have the wear bars showing. But the smiles are worth it.
Brian is right. You can drive this car at the limit and it won't bite you, either mechanically, financially, or put you in the weeds (iceplant in Socal).
Ok, it's not a rocket in 0-60 (and I have the MTX).
But it makes it up big time in the handling department. The stock is .84g. Better tires must kick that up somewhere in the .86 range.
Look in the back of R&T and see how many 4 door sedans reach that plateau unless you put out some big bucks.
I paid 32k for my 2000 MTX. That's chump change for this class of car.
Others have gotten 2002 V-8's close to that price.
What a bargain!
I had originally leased the car for 2 years, which are up next Wed. I thought I was going to say goodbye to old red because I've been unemployed for over a year and $$$s are scarcer than hens teeth around here. But then, as if by magic, I ran into an old coworker who's now an eng mgr, and now I work for him. Good to be working again. At least on payday. And it happened just in time for me to buy out my lease.
Only 25,000 miles on my LS, still looks runs like new. See you at the next autocross.
George
Congratulations on both counts! Glad you were able to find something and that you were able to buy your car out too!
I know this one was posted elsewhere but it's a fun discussion point. I think Scott C. started it but I know it wasn't me.
Do you look back at your LS as you walk away? If you are lucky enough to have a window at work where you can see your LS, do you catch yourself sneaking glances at it and grinning? Do you drive by a mirrored building and find that you check your LS out in the reflection?
I know I do.
George, so glad to hear it. You and that MTX are made for each other.
OK, yes, he says with a sheepish grin, I do look back. Love my Autumn Red w/chrome wheels. Especially :>) when it's clean.
This week as I was driving to *work*!! there was an Aut Red LS up ahead of me on Hwy 17. Well, it was ahead of me briefly :>) Afer I passed it I had an opportunity to 'see my bad self' in the rear view mirror. Gotta say, the LS has a real classy look to it from the front - classy and baaad.
I'll be looking to get those magnaflows soon, Brian. And a 2002 airbox for the K&N I just popped for. And I'm going to get one of the spoilers that are shown on Lincolnaccessories.com. Maybe toss in a couple good speakers and a cargo net. Did I miss anything? :>)
George
Normal maintance has cost me only one set of brakes, at 50,000 miles. There have been some issues with service, but they have all been rectified and resolved in an amicable way.
I haven't suffered the bane of the rear window failure yet. My car still has it's original headlights, yet. I can't think of a real problem outside of the errant Instrument Cluster. Not to say all is perfect, but I don't think that any mass producer of vehicles is perfect.
It's still a hard deal to beat!
Two business associates bought LS's on my rave reviews alone. They'd never heard of it before and now thank me every time they see me.
Pity the poor soul that will ask me for info at the Dallas car show, they'd better have time on their hands :>)
You must report to us how the odometer reads over 100K. That is does the tenths digit go away and the odometer reads 100,000 or does the tenths stay and it reads 00,000.0
Hmm... if that's the case how am I going to show 100,000 at 100 mph?
Ford Parts Network can get you a good deal on the 2002 Airbox.
Don't forget some Synthetic Lube for the Getrag. It really makes a difference in shifting quality.
I use Redline Syn D4 ATF with a little Redline MTL mixed in for the Summer.
It only takes 1.1 quart. You won't believe how small the tranny is. The whole trick is getting the fluid into the top fill hole. I use a Black and Decker Jackrabbit Fluid transfer pump but I'm going to modify a 12V windshield washer pump for the job.
I want to inspect all the hoses and clean the engine. I just open the hood, check the fluids and close it. At the 3 year mark, I start worrying about belts and hoses and possible leaks.
Can I drive the car without all this plastic on the engine?
We did it too on our 2001 Autumn Red V8 Sport, it must be a Autumn Red thing!
We bought out the lease in September and have never regretted it. We were going to turn it in on 2003 but we decided there was about another good 100,000 miles or more left in her.
Anyway, good luck on both the new developments.