I never did replace my front end bushings with urethane on the 2000 LS MTX. But I did on my 1983 Cressida MTX and then I started breaking sway bar links.
When my lease was up, I leased a FX45. But I miss the LS. My 15 year old son will soon be driving and I'm shocked that a 2004 LS V-6 can be had for under 25k. That's a steal! I'll let him drive the wifey's Volvo and The wife can drive the new LS. Of course, I will have to help her drive. I'll do the four wheel drifts and she can do the regular driving.
Secret: The "Sport" models were not that much better than the "Non-Sport" in handling. Very small diff if any. The driver can make more of a difference.
Well, I remember you talkin about replacing them, don't I? ...
You still have the FX don't you? I have a similar car squeeze going on here. 16.5 year old daughter needs something to drive. Choices are: my 5 speed LS (fat chance!) our '04 Navigator (Big fat chance) my '86 Cherokee 5 speed (a tough drive for first car, plus at 210,000 I dont know if I wanna trust it for her) our '98 Dodge Ram conversion van (she'd probably back over a freshman in that first time out!)
So, we're going to sell the van and get her something. I'm thinking of a Toyota 4x4 Tacoma - and she likes the idea. They're awful pricey though and I'm talking used ones.
So you're getting a new LS? For $25K? Can u believe that price? Thanks, Lincoln. Great for buyers now. A real screw job for us early adapters. I've been mulling over the idea of selling my MTX LS. But I don't know if I could get enuf $$$s for it. I'm not upside down in it though.
Anyway, nice to hear from ya. Best o'luck. Got any NICE homes in SD area for $400K ?? :>)
San Diego for 500k? I just listed a 1972 2 bedroom for that. All of 960 square feet! But the Bay Area is even worse. Average price in the 600's!
I only have the 96 Volvo wagon and the FX45. So we need an addition. A new V-6 LS "stripper" is not much more than a Saturn or some other cheap FWD and the LS has RWD. Worlds ahead. And the new V-6 has VVT so it probably would give our MTXes a run even with the slush box.
I did consider a truck because of the safety issues, but my kid liked the LS a lot. I'm not so much for a 4x4 because of weight,complexity and mileage issues. We'd never use 4 wheel drive here in San Diego.A company here called Pro-Gear makes a ton rebuilding front diffs because they are never used. The seals dry out, then the bearings rust out and on and on.Most 4x4's here never go "off-road".
I regret not buying my LS out of the lease, even though they wanted 4k more than market then.
I still love my LS and since it was just paid for about 12 days ago I'm keeping it for another year or two. Then I'm buying a new Stang. First car since the LS in 99 that I've actually lusted for and considered buying (I've lusted at Porsche 911s and SL500s for years but can't buy one right now).
Sounds good, Allen. Altho I haven't seen a new Mustang in person, what I've read makes it sound like there's a lot to like about it. Wonder how much it lost though when the penny-pinchers pulled the IRS? Or is the Mustang better off with a live axle?
Stan - Yeah, an Altima or an LS ... no brainer. Even a stripper LS is nicely equipped as they say. And what is the V-6 now, 240 HP? That's a decent number.
I've been toying with the idea of selling my LS and getting into one of the new Subaru Outback XT wagons. AWD, 250 HP and torque, turbo-4 (Boxer) engine, 5speed does 0-60 in close to 6 seconds, and all the reviews rave about the handling. Well, they rave about the handling of it's twin brother the Legacy GT anyway. That's the one to get if sports handling is more important that 8.7" of ground clearance. The Outback, they say, is almost as good in the mountains. For me, I'll take a slight dip in handling for the extra height. And they actually look nice, in and out, with this year's redesign. LS V-6 gets better mileage though.
George - from the comments by multiple test drivers from multiple publications you'd never know it was a live axle and not IRS. One magazine even said their drivers kept getting out and looking under the car to make sure nobody had slipped in an IRS unit. The setup is more like a street rod than a regular production car. So it still handles great (beat an IRS equipped GTO on the skidpad) and it's less expensive. I think it was a smart decision and they'll still have IRS on future models.
IRS will be available on the Cobra models, and other special edition models. The Panhard Rod is what keeps the axle from twitching during turns, like usual live axles do.
That's still being worked on. Look for the next round of autoshows to receive the final answers. The new Lincoln Zephyr will also be shown at the next round of auto shows as well, in full form.
New Automobile Magazine has an editorial by David E. Davis (Founder-Publisher) on how he was impressed by only two cars lately and one was the Subie Legacy Wagons. Be sure to read it.
Just read an article in the current Grassroots Motorsports (GRM) magazine about the new Mustang. The article is very positive on the Mustang, referring to it's chassis being based on the the "killer" LS/Jag S-Type platform.
The article also gives the LS other accolades, describing the LS's IRS as "superb" and giving it an overall superior track performance rating to the BMW 528 and Audi A6 based on their back-to-back testing.
As I've read elsewhere, GRM attributes the lack of Mustang IRS on the drag racing crowd who prefer a solid rear axle for "launching" purposes as well as an incremental manufacturing cost increase of $1600.
Like you Allen, I'm waiting on a Cobra before deciding on departing with my 2000 LS. Five years since I took delivery of my LS, and NOTHING comes close to tempting me away yet.
By the way, I did get a chance to sit in one not too long ago. At a local hot air balloon festival, a local car dealer had several new Fords out on display, with a V-6 Stang included. I didn't drive it, but I did sit in it, and look it over pretty well. The trunk has the gas-filled struts in lieu of the dreaded intrusive goose-neck trunk hinges. The seats, while fabric, were well bolstered and quite comfortable. I'm not too keen on the retro dash board and guage layout, but, sad to say, the guages are still better than what the LS has.
The rear seat is useless for adults, but a cruel dad like me would have no problems making their "grown-out-of-child-safety-seat kid" ride back there! My daughter, is nearly big enough to go without the child safety seat, so the Stang is looking like a real contender for my car dollar.
Here we are on the LS board discussing Mustangs, probably not kosher, but I've spent some time in the Mustang lately, and of course, in the LS having rented them often. The LS is the finest Sport Sedan I've ever driven, just as good as a Beemer 7 Series IMO. . The Mustang is just about as good. My problem is the interior is much less satisfying in quality. I'm used to a lot more luxury. I like how the Mustang interior looks, I just don't care for how it "feels". Kinda cheapish feeling. I think they could have done better. But for the money, maybe not.
I'm guessing a Mustang-based Mark 9 or 10? (It sure wouldn't be in the Towncar line...)
I'm sure every has seen the over-abundance of Buick Crossfire comercials that are on about every commercial break, during certain popular shows. There are 2 - the one with the lady dressing up in different colors and looking at herself in front of the car. Then there is the race track one - that leads you to believe it is a race car.
Too bad Lincoln didn't create some cool commercials for the LS and advertise it like Buick is advertising the Crossfire.
So, does this mean Buick is trying to catch up to Lincoln?
I think Lincoln is trying to kill the LS because the platform is too expensive, doesn't use the corporate V8 engines and they want to close Wixom. Just my personal opinion, no inside info here.
Look at the latest Lincoln commercials. They don't even show or mention the LS. It's like they're pretending it doesn't exist.
And I don't think ANT was talking about a Lincoln version of the stang. I think he was talking about a special edition of the stang. Or was he? Hmmm...
The DEW98's issue is the same as the MN (previous Mark8, Cougar, Tbird) too expensive to build. If other vehicles were planned off it, as was the idea years ago, then it would have been a feasable business plan. Now it's best to let Jaguar keep that platform since it's price premium will make up for it.
Now, the new Mustangs platform isn't really bad at all. In many aspects it improves some torsion/rigidity numbers over the LS'. When you hear the media describing that it's "cheaper", it's really only because it doesn't use as much aluminum, as the LS does.
Obviously what replaces the LS will be improved in many ways, specially it's ride and handling. That customer core will not be ignored either...
“Obviously what replaces the LS will be improved in many ways, specially it's ride and handling. That customer core will not be ignored either...”
Well – that may be obvious to you, but I have seen no official statement from Ford / L-M that indicates in the near term (say, 1 yr. To 18 months out) that a significantly improved product will be forthcoming.
By ‘significantly improved’, here I mean: Something like the 500+ improvements made for the 2003 model year. Improvements not only in ride and handling, but in acceleration (better HP / TQ) and many other areas – both dynamic and luxury / creature comfort-wise. (The cooled front seats come immediately to mind.)
- Ray
Who (on ownership of LS #2 now) would really LIKE to believe this . . .
Actions speak louder than words with me. I've been dismayed at how Lincoln has absolutely dropped the ball with the LS. I'll be hanging on to my LS until something better happens along, and I don't give a rat's rear end who makes it. Lincoln had previously earned a lot of loyalty from me . . . so much so, that I purchased a 2004 Lincoln Aviator.
However, since the abysmal marketing effort put forth on the LS, and based upon Lincoln-Mercury's track record for abandoning what I've always perceived as their better vehicles, I don't beleive this leapord will ever change it's spots. I've given up hope that the Ford Motor Company will ever produce anything similar to the LS with respect to luxury, sport, utility, and overall value. I chalk the LS up to dumb luck on their part for ever putting that combination together in the first place.
And, I agree, Lincoln has forgotten the LS and has let GM's CTS take center stage.
Way to go, Ford Motor Comnpany!
You announce a decent product (Mustang), forget some real good ones (LS) and announce a real yawner, the 500/Montego. Every roadtest knocks the car's lukewarm powerplant. Sounds a lot like dejevu all over again ala the Marauder initial roadtests, and we all know where that led.
The worst commentary I can say about the 500 is that, while sitting at a traffic light, I just happened to see the 500 emblem on the back of the car in front of me. Otherwise, I wouldn't have given the car a second look, even though in some respects, it does resmble some Mercedes Benz models from the back.
Check over at Blue Oval News; apparently the Five Hundred/Montego roll out is also being slowed by several supplier and quality control issues. I'd guess there's no harm done, since the cars competely lack any "gotta have it" factor. You are dead on about these cars being dull as dishwater-what bland and boring cars; they almost make a Camry look exciting...
I did see/sit in one at local LM dealer while getting LS air bag light fixed. I was never really on the band wagon for this car, and still am not because of the lackluster engine performance, altho to be fair, it's only a few HP less than my LS and the weight is about the same.
But I must admit, the Montego is a much more impressive vehicle up close than in pictures. It's big, roomy inside and trunk (no ITHs) looks well made. Yeah the looks are me-too vanilla but they are clean and more Mercedes-like than anything. Interior is nicely done too.
If only it had the 3.5 liter or something. Oh, and with the transverse mounting of the Duratech, I don't know how you get to the rearward bank of plugs. Good thing it's only every 100,000 miles.
Interesting commentary - It's as boring as the best selling cars in America, only a little bigger inside, and a little more comfortable, and a little more powerful than their standard engine..... Sounds like a winner to me, folks, where's the beef?
I climbed into a white limited on the dealers showroom floor(Ford 500). The windows were so heavily tinted that no salesperson noticed me for a long time so I was left to contemplate on my own. I really liked the "command seating" and the roominess of the interior which was in leather. Great trunk and if you like the Pasaat, you should like this. Did not take the time to drive it yet but I will. This car had 20" chrome wheels as a dealer add on which I thought was a bit too much. This model comes with 18".
every 100k ahhh thats the best. One day that will be the punchline of a great joke. But it has yet to be engineered just as the car that only needs a tune up evry 100k miles.
just comical commentary.
This car, the 500, is waaaay too plain. Nuns look hotter going down the road than and the Montego isn't much better off. They should have gone for the catholic school girl uniform look. I love the room it offers but that is its best attribute.
I had considered this an option for my next but after sitting in it I just couldn't do it to myself.
LaCrosse - not Crossfire... yep, sorry about the misprint. Everytime I typed it, I kept thinking something wasn't right and I didn't want to take the time to check it out. That's why you shouldn't believe everything you read. It reminds me of the Aurora. I wonder if they just did a few refinements on the last version of the Aurora and called it LaCrosse?
As far as the Montego goes. I think that and the 500 are both steps in the right direction.
I remember someone had a 1974 Montego. It was much uglier than its Sister, the (Gran) Torino - which was my first hand-me-down vehicle. It was a good car. (A tank, yes - but I sure did feel safe driving it.)
Most of you posting at the moment know that I share Chris's sentiments, plus others, in spades. What I think it comes down to is a commitment to the luxury sport sedan segment, or the lack thereof.
The LS represented a very brief commitment in the Ford/Lincoln executive suite -- could have been measured in minutes. The concept was great, but the execution. . .
Of course there was the Expedition tire fiasco & other financial woes, but the fact remains that there was a group of people in the organization at some point that thought that the LS made sense.
Where are they now?
If you want to attract a new (younger) demographic to a brand, it takes quite some time. Advertising is involved, over a protracted period, as well as continuous improvement to the product. If selling trucks is the sole goal, why even launch the LS?
I haven't mentioned the elimination of the manual. . .until now. The Audi A6 people are dealing with this, while the CTS crowd is asking where to find them. Sad to say, the Cadillac dealer cabal may cause much of the same trouble we had with the LS, with respect to the manual. Or maybe not.
Talk is cheap. Follow-through isn't, but pays huge dividends, long-term. Long-term is how most North American financial executives don't think.
People who liked the LS aren't going to like the Five Hundred - they aren't going to like the Avalon, CRown Vic or the Grand Marquis or the 300C either. Not the same car.
"Overall, the car has a profoundly geriatric feeling about it, like it was built with a swollen prostate. To drive this car is to feel the icy hand of death upon you, or at least the icy hand of Hertz, because it simply screams rental."
Yep, I don't like the Avalon, Crown Vic or the Grand Marquis. You see, I still have all my own teeth and don't own any white shoes or belts. And my wife's hair isn't blue...
AH yes. The rebirth of Mercury. A misnamed minivan years behind the competition, a gussied-up Escape without the only thing that makes the Escape worth looking at - the hybrid system, and another car for the blue-haired set. Brilliant. Shameful. Like I said, I don't think it's bad lookin but if it drives like an old Crown VIc, who needs it? WHat the heck are they smokin in Dearborn?
I was trying to get THIS particular thread back on topic here, instead of a bash Mercury topic, since obviously, LS fans aren't going to be in love with a Montego as a replacement for their beloved LS, which they're already playing Taps for, even though you can still buy a new one at their L/M dealer today, for a hefty $45,000, I may add.........
Well, has anyone heard anything about an LS redesign? replacement? imitation?
One thought occurred to me here (that's my daily quota): If Ford was to put a decent engine in the Montego and tighten up the suspension, I wonder if they'd then think they have a new Lincoln?
"One thought occurred to me here (that's my daily quota):"
We see that, George..... (He He)
I had heard, that it would be built upon the same platform (DEWlite) that the current Mustang just came out on. Not quite as great, but not altogether a bad thing. I'm sure, there'll be a Lincoln version or two of the Montego.....and, I'll be interested in checking them out.
Let's assume that Lincoln could infuse the Five Hundred/Montego platform with a generous helping of power and style(a HUGE assumption, IMNSHO). The FWD based AWD system would still be the deal breaker for me. A torpid understeering appliance does not make a good basis for a world class sports sedan.
Lincoln is being geared towards a younger demographic, minus the "bling bling" that some are injecting into their brand advertising wise. I'm not sure how marketing wishes to call it (there's 3-5 words for each brand as to what they are trying to accomplish)...But it'll be more about trendy american sophistication and elegance.
On the LA articles, yes I read it. I make notes from it. Some writer's show a certain bias and when I'm able to link it from their past reviews/articles, I fire off a nice letter to point it out to them.... I've already fired one, with no reply, go figure...
Just how I make notes when these "market analysts" predict something negative, it gets blasted on the front page news, then when they are proven wrong, NO ONE points it out...But I too send them a nice little note and point it out.
Specially this month that I feel so generous and I'm Teasin' the Season :-)
Certainly some auto writers have and display bias. I'm not familiar with this reviewer but being from LA he's probably more prone than most to be anti-American in his car views and perhaps other views as well. But to be honest, his basic opinion, that the 500 and Montego are big dogs mainly due to powertrain, somewhat due to looks, is shared by every other review I've seen on them including Motor Trend which I could not classify as one of the Detroit Bashers.
Interestingly one pretty important (maybe preceeded by self-) auto industry guy, DeLorenzo over at autoextremist (.com) spends some time bashing the Detroit bashers in his dec 15 site rants and then writes a few paragraphs about this very review by Dan Neil and DeL loves it, calls DN one of the best (and apparently a Pulitzer Prize winner) and recalls how he, DeLorenzo, has been "hammering Ford since last January about these cars..."
It's just a shame. Best quote from the review is : "Has Ford ever seen the competition?"
And DeLorenzo is the same guy who's been hammering BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche for the idiotic mistakes they have been making. It seems that the "cars-are-just-appliances" gang over at Consumer Reports are the only folks who even halfway like the Five Hundred. To me the Five Hundred is even more boring than a Camry.
But people buy boring cars more than non boring cars (witness the accord and camry). Works for them - why not Ford? I thought the goal of business was to sell cars and make money.
"I agree, boring people buy boring cars. But what will make dull non-UAW families pick the Five Hundred over an Accord or Camry?
Styling(or lack thereof)?
Reliability?
Interior design and quality?
I just don't see this car making a ripple in the marketplace, much less giving the Japanese any sleepless nights..."
*Styling? -- Yes, you may not find the Five Hundred appealing, but the car does have a certain "presence" which the Camry and Accord are sorely lacking, it ahs to do with the cars size and proportions, they're much like a real 1950's sedan -- not a faux "choppped" design like the Chrysler 300's but more like a Checker Marathon not sexy but kind of imposing and substantial, you really have to see the cars in person to get it.
*Reliability? -- Only time will tell.
*Interior design and quality? -- Yes, these cars have it, they're a bit more spartan and utilitarian than the Japanese, but they are certainly comfortable and the amount of space and flexibility of the interior packaging is outstanding, and the higher seating position is a boon to anyone whose job requires making frequent entries and exits from the car. I ordered a Montego myself, it is really the only sedan I considered because I frequently need to carry large and awkward cargo, but really didn't want a minivan or SUV because of the mediocre handling and fuel economy and lack of covered storage.
The Five Hundred and Montego are niche vehicles in many ways, as are sports sedans and luxury sedan, but I think they occupy a pretty large niche.
BTW I do not consider mysellf "dull", but my interests are more in the activities that my car helps me do than in the car itself. It's probably the same with most of those other people who buy dull cars out there. Cars really are appliances for most people most of the time.
The 500 is only "dull" if you drive it in such a way... I've made that vehicle do things I wouldn't even have attempted in some other "fullsize" vehicles. I specially love trying to trick the AWD system and make it slip thru the slalom, or on ice, slick roads, etc. and it still won't break lose from it's grip.
And I've done the same with even a boring car as a Camry... Borrowed a friends Camry to cure some "hesitation" the engine had. She never thought the car could do as much as it did (front end alignment seems to be it's weak point, don't throw it over a curb like you can with a 500), and marshmellow suspension doesn't provide much feedback or confidence for quick turn-ins.
But most vehicles you can bring the soul out... It's just, in some it requires a bit more effort, whereas some others it's much less. As for the 500, it's there if you want it to be, but can also be a neutral driving vehicle if need be as well.
We did the research, testdrives, worked the salesmen over. Should we get the A6 or an LS??? We decided to trade in the Passat for a custom order 2004 LS last January. Just trying to do our thing for the good ole' USA.
Well - WAKE UP DETROIT!!! 8 weeks later our car arrived only to have to be immediately repainted due to a huge flaw on the roof. Strange rattles that the dealer could not fix, headliner fell down in the back. It died in the shopping center parking lot on a busy Saturday - had to be towed to the dealership - faulty PCV valve. Gave us a 2 year old LS as a loaner and I realized the rolling junk heap we drove for 2 days was in our future. We love the LS ride, we love the solid handling, we love comfort of the front seats (forget about anyone over 5'5 riding in the back however).
We drove the Montego - geez what a joke! SOunds like a panel truck inside and rode about as well. Its a Passat wannabe without the German engineering and attention to detail.
We will be trading in our LS with less than 10K miles for the car we should have bought in the first place. When Detroit can build a car without myriad defects, starts doing smart engineering that is actually good design not just schlock for the masses, stops building 'Kleenex Cars' to use and just throw away, then maybe we will be back.
Comments
When my lease was up, I leased a FX45. But I miss the LS. My 15 year old son will soon be driving and I'm shocked that a 2004 LS V-6 can be had for under 25k. That's a steal! I'll let him drive the wifey's Volvo and The wife can drive the new LS. Of course, I will have to help her drive. I'll do the four wheel drifts and she can do the regular driving.
Secret: The "Sport" models were not that much better than the "Non-Sport" in handling. Very small diff if any. The driver can make more of a difference.
Well, I remember you talkin about replacing them, don't I? ...
You still have the FX don't you? I have a similar car squeeze going on here. 16.5 year old daughter needs something to drive. Choices are: my 5 speed LS (fat chance!) our '04 Navigator (Big fat chance) my '86 Cherokee 5 speed (a tough drive for first car, plus at 210,000 I dont know if I wanna trust it for her) our '98 Dodge Ram conversion van (she'd probably back over a freshman in that first time out!)
So, we're going to sell the van and get her something. I'm thinking of a Toyota 4x4 Tacoma - and she likes the idea. They're awful pricey though and I'm talking used ones.
So you're getting a new LS? For $25K? Can u believe that price? Thanks, Lincoln. Great for buyers now. A real screw job for us early adapters. I've been mulling over the idea of selling my MTX LS. But I don't know if I could get enuf $$$s for it. I'm not upside down in it though.
Anyway, nice to hear from ya. Best o'luck. Got any NICE homes in SD area for $400K ?? :>)
I only have the 96 Volvo wagon and the FX45. So we need an addition. A new V-6 LS "stripper" is not much more than a Saturn or some other cheap FWD and the LS has RWD. Worlds ahead. And the new V-6 has VVT so it probably would give our MTXes a run even with the slush box.
I did consider a truck because of the safety issues, but my kid liked the LS a lot. I'm not so much for a 4x4 because of weight,complexity and mileage issues. We'd never use 4 wheel drive here in San Diego.A company here called Pro-Gear makes a ton rebuilding front diffs because they are never used. The seals dry out, then the bearings rust out and on and on.Most 4x4's here never go "off-road".
I regret not buying my LS out of the lease, even though they wanted 4k more than market then.
Stan - Yeah, an Altima or an LS ... no brainer. Even a stripper LS is nicely equipped as they say. And what is the V-6 now, 240 HP? That's a decent number.
I've been toying with the idea of selling my LS and getting into one of the new Subaru Outback XT wagons. AWD, 250 HP and torque, turbo-4 (Boxer) engine, 5speed does 0-60 in close to 6 seconds, and all the reviews rave about the handling. Well, they rave about the handling of it's twin brother the Legacy GT anyway. That's the one to get if sports handling is more important that 8.7" of ground clearance. The Outback, they say, is almost as good in the mountains. For me, I'll take a slight dip in handling for the extra height. And they actually look nice, in and out, with this year's redesign. LS V-6 gets better mileage though.
ANT - do you know if the Shelby version will be produced by Ford or by Shelby?
The article also gives the LS other accolades, describing the LS's IRS as "superb" and giving it an overall superior track performance rating to the BMW 528 and Audi A6 based on their back-to-back testing.
As I've read elsewhere, GRM attributes the lack of Mustang IRS on the drag racing crowd who prefer a solid rear axle for "launching" purposes as well as an incremental manufacturing cost increase of $1600.
Like you Allen, I'm waiting on a Cobra before deciding on departing with my 2000 LS. Five years since I took delivery of my LS, and NOTHING comes close to tempting me away yet.
The rear seat is useless for adults, but a cruel dad like me would have no problems making their "grown-out-of-child-safety-seat kid" ride back there! My daughter, is nearly big enough to go without the child safety seat, so the Stang is looking like a real contender for my car dollar.
Thanks for the tip, Stan. COuldn't find the article on line. But that's OK.
-Paul
I'm sure every has seen the over-abundance of Buick Crossfire comercials that are on about every commercial break, during certain popular shows. There are 2 - the one with the lady dressing up in different colors and looking at herself in front of the car. Then there is the race track one - that leads you to believe it is a race car.
Too bad Lincoln didn't create some cool commercials for the LS and advertise it like Buick is advertising the Crossfire.
So, does this mean Buick is trying to catch up to Lincoln?
Look at the latest Lincoln commercials. They don't even show or mention the LS. It's like they're pretending it doesn't exist.
And I don't think ANT was talking about a Lincoln version of the stang. I think he was talking about a special edition of the stang. Or was he? Hmmm...
Now, the new Mustangs platform isn't really bad at all. In many aspects it improves some torsion/rigidity numbers over the LS'. When you hear the media describing that it's "cheaper", it's really only because it doesn't use as much aluminum, as the LS does.
Obviously what replaces the LS will be improved in many ways, specially it's ride and handling. That customer core will not be ignored either...
Well – that may be obvious to you, but I have seen no official statement from Ford / L-M that indicates in the near term (say, 1 yr. To 18 months out) that a significantly improved product will be forthcoming.
By ‘significantly improved’, here I mean: Something like the 500+ improvements made for the 2003 model year. Improvements not only in ride and handling, but in acceleration (better HP / TQ) and many other areas – both dynamic and luxury / creature comfort-wise. (The cooled front seats come immediately to mind.)
- Ray
Who (on ownership of LS #2 now) would really LIKE to believe this . . .
However, since the abysmal marketing effort put forth on the LS, and based upon Lincoln-Mercury's track record for abandoning what I've always perceived as their better vehicles, I don't beleive this leapord will ever change it's spots. I've given up hope that the Ford Motor Company will ever produce anything similar to the LS with respect to luxury, sport, utility, and overall value. I chalk the LS up to dumb luck on their part for ever putting that combination together in the first place.
Some, I suppose.
Also people like J Rogers - now gone. . .
- Ray
Waiting . . .
Nice looking car, IMHO.
And, I agree, Lincoln has forgotten the LS and has let GM's CTS take center stage.
Way to go, Ford Motor Comnpany!
You announce a decent product (Mustang), forget some real good ones (LS) and announce a real yawner, the 500/Montego. Every roadtest knocks the car's lukewarm powerplant. Sounds a lot like dejevu all over again ala the Marauder initial roadtests, and we all know where that led.
The worst commentary I can say about the 500 is that, while sitting at a traffic light, I just happened to see the 500 emblem on the back of the car in front of me. Otherwise, I wouldn't have given the car a second look, even though in some respects, it does resmble some Mercedes Benz models from the back.
But I must admit, the Montego is a much more impressive vehicle up close than in pictures. It's big, roomy inside and trunk (no ITHs) looks well made. Yeah the looks are me-too vanilla but they are clean and more Mercedes-like than anything. Interior is nicely done too.
If only it had the 3.5 liter or something. Oh, and with the transverse mounting of the Duratech, I don't know how you get to the rearward bank of plugs. Good thing it's only every 100,000 miles.
just comical commentary.
This car, the 500, is waaaay too plain. Nuns look hotter going down the road than and the Montego isn't much better off. They should have gone for the catholic school girl uniform look. I love the room it offers but that is its best attribute.
I had considered this an option for my next but after sitting in it I just couldn't do it to myself.
As far as the Montego goes. I think that and the 500 are both steps in the right direction.
I remember someone had a 1974 Montego. It was much uglier than its Sister, the (Gran) Torino - which was my first hand-me-down vehicle. It was a good car. (A tank, yes - but I sure did feel safe driving it.)
Most of you posting at the moment know that I share Chris's sentiments, plus others, in spades. What I think it comes down to is a commitment to the luxury sport sedan segment, or the lack thereof.
The LS represented a very brief commitment in the Ford/Lincoln executive suite -- could have been measured in minutes. The concept was great, but the execution. . .
Of course there was the Expedition tire fiasco & other financial woes, but the fact remains that there was a group of people in the organization at some point that thought that the LS made sense.
Where are they now?
If you want to attract a new (younger) demographic to a brand, it takes quite some time. Advertising is involved, over a protracted period, as well as continuous improvement to the product. If selling trucks is the sole goal, why even launch the LS?
I haven't mentioned the elimination of the manual. . .until now. The Audi A6 people are dealing with this, while the CTS crowd is asking where to find them. Sad to say, the Cadillac dealer cabal may cause much of the same trouble we had with the LS, with respect to the manual. Or maybe not.
Talk is cheap. Follow-through isn't, but pays huge dividends, long-term. Long-term is how most North American financial executives don't think.
That is all. . .for now.
Best quote:
"Overall, the car has a profoundly geriatric feeling about it, like it was built with a swollen prostate. To drive this car is to feel the icy hand of death upon you, or at least the icy hand of Hertz, because it simply screams rental."
Yep, I don't like the Avalon, Crown Vic or the Grand Marquis. You see, I still have all my own teeth and don't own any white shoes or belts. And my wife's hair isn't blue...
OTOH, I DO like the 300C-make mine a SRT-8.
One thought occurred to me here (that's my daily quota): If Ford was to put a decent engine in the Montego and tighten up the suspension, I wonder if they'd then think they have a new Lincoln?
We see that, George..... (He He)
I had heard, that it would be built upon the same platform (DEWlite) that the current Mustang just came out on. Not quite as great, but not altogether a bad thing. I'm sure, there'll be a Lincoln version or two of the Montego.....and, I'll be interested in checking them out.
Lincoln does not need another car for the geriatric set. Mercury's got that market cornered now it seems.
The last thing Lincoln needs is a car review like the one in the LA Times for the Montego.
On the LA articles, yes I read it. I make notes from it. Some writer's show a certain bias and when I'm able to link it from their past reviews/articles, I fire off a nice letter to point it out to them.... I've already fired one, with no reply, go figure...
Just how I make notes when these "market analysts" predict something negative, it gets blasted on the front page news, then when they are proven wrong, NO ONE points it out...But I too send them a nice little note and point it out.
Specially this month that I feel so generous and I'm Teasin' the Season :-)
Interestingly one pretty important (maybe preceeded by self-) auto industry guy, DeLorenzo over at autoextremist (.com) spends some time bashing the Detroit bashers in his dec 15 site rants and then writes a few paragraphs about this very review by Dan Neil and DeL loves it, calls DN one of the best (and apparently a Pulitzer Prize winner) and recalls how he, DeLorenzo, has been "hammering Ford since last January about these cars..."
It's just a shame. Best quote from the review is : "Has Ford ever seen the competition?"
Styling(or lack thereof)?
Reliability?
Interior design and quality?
I just don't see this car making a ripple in the marketplace, much less giving the Japanese any sleepless nights...
Styling(or lack thereof)?
Reliability?
Interior design and quality?
I just don't see this car making a ripple in the marketplace, much less giving the Japanese any sleepless nights..."
*Styling? -- Yes, you may not find the Five Hundred appealing, but the car does have a certain "presence" which the Camry and Accord are sorely lacking, it ahs to do with the cars size and proportions, they're much like a real 1950's sedan -- not a faux "choppped" design like the Chrysler 300's but more like a Checker Marathon not sexy but kind of imposing and substantial, you really have to see the cars in person to get it.
*Reliability? -- Only time will tell.
*Interior design and quality? -- Yes, these cars have it, they're a bit more spartan and utilitarian than the Japanese, but they are certainly comfortable and the amount of space and flexibility of the interior packaging is outstanding, and the higher seating position is a boon to anyone whose job requires making frequent entries and exits from the car. I ordered a Montego myself, it is really the only sedan I considered because I frequently need to carry large and awkward cargo, but really didn't want a minivan or SUV because of the mediocre handling and fuel economy and lack of covered storage.
The Five Hundred and Montego are niche vehicles in many ways, as are sports sedans and luxury sedan, but I think they occupy a pretty large niche.
BTW I do not consider mysellf "dull", but my interests are more in the activities that my car helps me do than in the car itself. It's probably the same with most of those other people who buy dull cars out there. Cars really are appliances for most people most of the time.
And I've done the same with even a boring car as a Camry... Borrowed a friends Camry to cure some "hesitation" the engine had. She never thought the car could do as much as it did (front end alignment seems to be it's weak point, don't throw it over a curb like you can with a 500), and marshmellow suspension doesn't provide much feedback or confidence for quick turn-ins.
But most vehicles you can bring the soul out... It's just, in some it requires a bit more effort, whereas some others it's much less. As for the 500, it's there if you want it to be, but can also be a neutral driving vehicle if need be as well.
Well - WAKE UP DETROIT!!! 8 weeks later our car arrived only to have to be immediately repainted due to a huge flaw on the roof. Strange rattles that the dealer could not fix, headliner fell down in the back. It died in the shopping center parking lot on a busy Saturday - had to be towed to the dealership - faulty PCV valve. Gave us a 2 year old LS as a loaner and I realized the rolling junk heap we drove for 2 days was in our future. We love the LS ride, we love the solid handling, we love comfort of the front seats (forget about anyone over 5'5 riding in the back however).
We drove the Montego - geez what a joke! SOunds like a panel truck inside and rode about as well. Its a Passat wannabe without the German engineering and attention to detail.
We will be trading in our LS with less than 10K miles for the car we should have bought in the first place. When Detroit can build a car without myriad defects, starts doing smart engineering that is actually good design not just schlock for the masses, stops building 'Kleenex Cars' to use and just throw away, then maybe we will be back.