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Comments
Lincoln is NOT chasing Cadillac, it doesn't need to. Ford has Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin to battle where Cadillac wishes to play at. GM had to place Cadillac much higher, and allocate Buick in the position that Caddilac left.
Lincoln has always been about affordable american luxury. The whole concept of it's roots was to offer american's affordable luxury vehicles at a good price without breaking the bank.
Common sense shows, more vehicles are sold at the $35-50K range, than the 50-100K range. In fact, large luxury sedan sales have dropped for a few upper echelon brands, from last year figures to current.
Some of these publications (while whining about why Lincoln isn't chasing Cadillac) turn around and start bashing Cadillac on the Escalade being Tahoe, Avalache, Yukon, etc twins, and of how mediocre their interior material quality are for their vehicles (typical for GM).
Most of these rantings remind me of Old-Detroit, an era long ago where because Timmy bought a new bike, Bobby had to buy one too. If Bobby added bigger tires, Timmy had to as well. They are forgetting that Cindy, Sandy and Jack moved into the cul-de-sac, some are seeing each other, some have gotten married, yet Bobby and Timmy haven't grown up, nor has Autoextremists understanding and are trying to relive an era of long ago.
In the end, it's all about the product. I'm 51. Sometime in the next 10 years, I'm likely to go back to a large Sedan. At this moment, the Town Car and the Lexus LS 430 are at the top of the list. If the Town Car had a decent Air Conditioner and Cooled Seats, it would get my check hands down. Love the size and the looks. Sure, the Lexus is probably more refined, solid and modern, but it's not very pretty, it's smaller, and doesn't create much of an impression in most valet circles, and it's a hellovalot more money. The XJ might work, but it's pretty low to the ground for my left knee. So is the S-80. No interest in anything German at this point. Not reliable enough, too expensive. Cadillac? They think too highly of themselves. Just because they think they're worth $55,000, doesn't mean they are.
I understand your frustration, but again I keep hearing "Because Cadillac this, Lincoln needs to do that", and that's the whole point. Lincoln doesn't need to follow Cadillac.
And other examples of how Lincoln used to be decades ago.... The whole marketplace has changed since then, having hand crafted vehicles might have seemed special, and give people some warm fuzzy feelings, but today's methods are much more reliable. And there's much more competition... If your limit your options to 2 specific makes, of course one would succeed over another graciously. Now there's many more options, in a saturated marketplace.
I don't see why AutoExtremist picked this item to harp on recently. Lincoln was holding it's own in the late 90's with just 3 vehicles at the time. Cont, TC, M8 in those bleak days. Then the Nav was introduced, Mk8 killed in 98. Three simple vehicles holding the sales forte.
Now new products are coming and of course it'll never be enough. People will find an issue to complain about the next Aviator using the CD3 platform (Mazda6 derived), same with the Zephyr. The Conti and LS replacements riding on the D3 platform (Volvo derived), a cross-over, a coupe, and another SUV to be introduced later on.
And when it's 2008... while these vehicles will compare to other luxury brands and offer similar features for less, AE will continue to bring it up that Lincolns $40K sedan just isn't good enough to compete with Caddies $70K equivilant because they still are stuck with the idealism of decades ago in a cut throat market.
I made a reference to a 6-year flash in the pan recently, then paused to consider how long the flash was. . .really.
The starting date is pretty simple -- when the first paying customer drove one off the lot.
The ending date will be more difficult. I'm guessing the last LS will be on someone's lot years after the platform is history (for the LS).
Any ideas?
Forgive me, but my job involves metrics, and choosing objective measures like this helps to define things.
The question is whether they'll decide that FWD/AWD is good enough and decide not to spend the money on a new platform - in which case we'll know in about 3 years.
A relevant excerpt-
<Aiming for the "near-luxury" segment is like drawing a bead on mediocrity. Given that brief, some car companies just can't help themselves, and end up consciously or unconsciously designing cars that are compromised in some way. And too often in many ways.
So, here we have Lincoln, which has become the new poster child for a car company that has made the conscious decision to settle for mediocrity. Lincoln is aiming their entire future product portfolio at the "near-luxury" segment, meaning there will be no top-line, first-rate, "flagship" Lincoln - a car that everyone across the country can instantly recognize and call out to their friends as "that new Lincoln." Instead, Lincoln will launch a series of vehicles that will instantly get swallowed up in Near-Luxury Hell - along with 95 percent of the other manufacturers elbowing each other for the same piece of market segment real estate.
I'm sure the marketing geniuses at Lincoln will protest vehemently, but the fact remains that they have taken the easy way out. It's much easier to play "me too" in this business than it is to lead with bold strokes. It's much easier to deliver "good enough" to the market than it is to carve out a distinctive persona all your own.
The sad thing about all of this is that at one time Lincoln had the kind of distinctive, luxury brand persona that everyone at least recognized and acknowledged.
Now, they'll content themselves with only trying to get "near" it, apparently.>
Does anyone know where the horn unit is located? I spent some time poking around in the engine bay with a flashlight but didn't see anything but plastic shrouds and a few wires.
If the thing is too buried in the very-cramped LS V8 engine bay I may just let the dealer replace it rather than spend all day uninstalling and reinstalling unrelated stuff just to replace the horn.
Thanks for any tips you can offer.
My guess is that you'll have to get an 8mm 1/4" wrench and remove the lower/front shroud to see it at all. That isn't too difficult to do.
Does anyone know if the small hubcap off the Lincoln chrome seven blade wheel will fit the TBird seven blade chrome wheel? I could reuse the TBird cap, but it has the TBird logo on it.
thanks.
Tried putting the 03 TBird chrome cap on the 04 LS wheel. No good. TBird cap has a larger protruding piece that allows the cap to be centered. Will not fit, without some modifying.
The LS cap fits on the TBird rim, but it doesn't cover as much area. The TBird cap has a slightly larger outside diameter. Slight gap shows.
Still have yet to try a chrome LS cap on the TBird rim. Can't seem to find a car with the chrome rims in any of the local dealerships.
Well. since I have all winter to figure it out, I'm in no rush.
Put the WS 50 225/55/17 on the car. Still rides/handles well. Now to try them out in the white stuff, although we haven't had any snow yet in the NY/NJ area, and the ten day weather report still doesn't predict any. (No complaints here at all.)
At least they're being advertised that way in multiple cities.
When Lincoln showed dealers (and a few lucky LS owners) the new 03 LS in early 02 they had base and sport models of both the V6 and V8. The dealers complained loudly and forced Lincoln to eliminate the sport V6 and base V8 models to simplify the number of unique models. Since the dealers are the ones who buy the vehicles from Lincoln they capitulated. It was clearly Lincoln's intent to produce a sport V6 and a base V8. Blame your dealer.
thanks in advance,
steve
Even if you're doing the work yourself, the labor is by far the higher consideration. Once you're in there with everything taken apart, you may as well do the whole thing. Why do it over again in six months or two years or whatever when the other pieces fail?
If you're paying the dealership or an independent, the cost of the parts shrinks to insignificance when compared to the installation labour.
Let us know how it turns out, by the way. My bushings have been clunking for the last couple of years, and in the cooler weather now I'm noticing them more and more.
-Paul
I had some clunks from the front end too. Turned out to be broken sway bar links. This was at about 45000.
$22000 for an '04 LS? Shoot me now.
Heather Anders
Our airs bags didn't deploy, but the impact was not severe and was absorbed by the front end.
I got a genuine Lincoln replacement part...
2005 CTS-V...Yeehaw!
Bob
Enjoy your V, Bob.
As to the answer to your question -- whatever the market will bear. Hmmm. . .four year old car that can be had brand new today (with those famous 200 improvements) for $30K. . .say $12K.
Doncha just love it?
I won't trouble the group with what I got for my '94 Eagle Vision (finally, after two months of newspaper ads & Auto Trader price reductions), relative to what the "fair market value" was.
Do let us know what your LS brings. Having endured the Eagle thing, I'm not looking forward to getting $1.85 (yet again) for my used North American vehicle (the Eagle was built in Canada), but having a few data points is always a good thing.
2004 CTS-V: 0
The Caddy was more than 4 seconds adrift on a course that took less than 60 seconds to run.
check out the Event Results from the AZ SCCA SoloII on Nov. 7, 2004
http://www.azsolo2.com/cgi-bin/results.cgi?
Wonder how that V will do after the person driving it has a couple of years' experience?
Also wonder what the results would be with you driving the V & them driving your LS?
Properly equipped, I feel a RWD vehicle is actually safer. What is properly equipped?
1 - SNOW tires in the winter. NOT all seasons. Michelin makes an Artic Alpin tire that is incredible. Buying a second set of steel wheels for snow tires is a cheap investment for family safety.
2 - stability/traction control - pretty standard now on lux/sport sedans. This will help limit spins
3 - informed driver - knowing your car's as well as your own limits is the best equipment you can have.
A RWD vehicle w/o snows may be a problem. But you have to consider too - if you get a foot of snow, are you REALLY going to be driving an LS in it? Probably not, as there is not 12" of clearance under it. You'd just be a snowplow!
Your biggest danger in a RWD with snows is not the snow, but the other drivers who have no clue and think they can drive normally in those conditions. In that case, you want your airbags and other safety equipment working.
-Paul
I'm actually looking forward to more competition . . . because I just don't encounter that many luxury sport sedans on the skid pad. That's been the ONLY CTS I've ever seen autocrossing, and I recall only competing against 2 other BMW 5 series (528 and 540, and beat them both).
Now, the Infiniti G35 sedan is a different story . . . the car has more hp and torque, weighs less than an LS, but the SCCA places it is D-stock (which has a more advantageous handicap factor). Go figure. The guy that competes with it has more experience than me and does beat me on raw time (and with the handicap factor, beats me by a seemingly larger margin), though it's still close enough to keep things interesting.
The most important thing to remember, though, is autocrossing is more about the driver than the car.
- cerebus
With what little information you’ve supplied, it is really difficult for me to comment usefully. But – it sounds like you might be much more comfortable with a FWD or AWD. (There are lots that offer some significant measure of luxury.)
The LS offers a unique combination of sport, performance and value that appeals to certain people. (Perhaps I am in a lunatic fringe group – I’m on my 2nd LS.) But unless that appeals to you, I expect that there are a bunch of other vehicles that you may want to look at. Ones where luxury (in ride, equipment level, etc.) is a higher priority than in the LS.
When it seemed likely that I’d be moving back to the Northeast, I drove an AWD 8-cylinder German sedan. For a while.
- Ray
Sad to be steering someone away from the LS, but . . .
On another note, my lease on my Jag XType runs out in about 2 months. Thinking of another LS. It is hard to be the value per dollar and the great handling. A V6 would be fine with me.
My friend wanted to co-drive my LS this Winter Season (which just concluded this past Sunday, with one event per month since September). This past Sunday, we were using the parking lot at Phoenix International Raceway, but the 3 prior events were out at Firebird Raceway, next to the Bob Bondurant Driving School. If my friend isn't co-driving someone else's car (he is jokingly referred to as a car concubine), he drives his own '97 BMW M3. On a handicap basis, I can now beat him occasionally when we each drive our own cars (and yes, I have beaten him when we each drive my LS, but he usually beats me).
Scoring for this past Sunday's event is VERY misleading . . . it rained all morning for the first 3 run groups, started to dry out when my run group went (but there was still standing water on the course), and was actually very dry for the 5th run group when my friend had my car. All the guys at the top of the scoring charts ran in the 5th run group. In the category I compete in, drivers can run in any run group during the day, so conditions can vary (though they seldom do out here). Unfortunately, conditions varied considerably this past Sunday, and I wasn't one of the people running in the 5th run group. Oh well, there's always next season . . . it starts January back out at PIR.
I have had it out on several occasions (over the past 4 winters) during heavy snow - or shortly after a storm (roads covered in 2-4 inches of unplowed wet snow.) There was one time when I stopped on a slight upgrade that it wouldn't start unless I backed it up a ways and got a run for it. Other than that it handled very well as far as steering and braking go. In deep snow - it doesn't take off with the stock tires very well - it most likely is better with snows on the rear.
I think with dedicated snow tires and a little extra weight in the trunk - you'd have few problems - if ever. It doesn't seem to snow as much in the Philly region compared to here.
I also know a lady that does drive her LS through the winter. She lives in a valley with a couple of very steep grades to get out of her driveway. She told me that she never really had any problems and didn't have the snow tires on. We also got probably over 100 inches of snow the past 2 winters that she has had her LS.
X-Ice snow tires and looking forward to the first snow for response. Have a '99 Town Car with snows on the back only - no problems witht he proper weight in trunk (summer tires mounted on OEM wheels)