The good news is I installed the 2nd set of DX7's in the rear doors today. They sound great and in reply to jdonnee, there is plenty of power to drive them with my non-audiophile radio.
Now the bad news, my driver side rear window mechanism craped out today. I took the mechanism off but was unable to fix it. The cable jammed up around the main pulley. I taped the window up and will contact the dealer tomorrow. I'm hoping they stock the part. Has anyone who has had the unit replaced with an updated one had the other still functioning one replaced by there dealer at the same time?
Tom-sorry about your window. How many miles on your car now? I'm just waiting. Turned 15K yesterday.
Per your post of the other day, are you finding that sitting further back allows you to hear more from the rears? I really wish the speakers were mounted higher in the doors. My ankles are going deaf. I've noticed that my Pioneer TSA6865's sound better when my wife opens the door to get out. However, this is a bit impractical for most driving situations. Seriously though, it does demonstrate (to me at least) either that the speaker placement is not ideal or the Pioneers are not the best for this application.
Enjoy your "new" sound system. I hope to see you at the NY auto show- Artie
On a lot in north jersey is a black "NY Region LS Super Sport" edition, which consisted of: all black grille with a mesh replacing the vertical bars; matching mesh in the lower opening between the fog lights; rocker panel ground effect; rear facia with protruding exhaust tips; extra wood trim surrounding the radio area; all chrome around the rear plate painted black to match the car; small gold dash emblem passenger's side "Special Edition LS Super Sport 024/200". Car still had factory white plastic protective covers and five stickers with VIN number on the windshield, each one stating "NY Region Special Edition" with a different item (ground effects, panel, dash). No price on the window, just the regular factory sticker. Looked good. (This is the same dealer that had two LS's with vinyl tops a few weeke ago.)
I have had problems with Pavilion LM in the past and I am the one who asked that they be included in the list back when the list was first started. I do understand that they may have a hard time finding the problem but I do expect them to find and fix the problem. They said they fixed it last week and since then I bet the car has been driven approx. 10 miles since the problem surfaced again.This car has only has 7500 miles on it.!! Instead of the tech taking time to fix the problem I am having to take the time to go back and let them try once again. If I hadn't had problems with Pavilion in the past I might not be as harsh on them. You know when I bought the car in March 2000 the salesman was quick to point out how great their technicians are. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever expect to have this much trouble with Lincoln service. Yugo maybe but not Lincoln.
Well guys the day is here for me. It happened saturday in the wee hours of the morning 2:30 to be exact, as the ladies and a couple of my friends were oooing and ahhhhing my car. The window would not roll down.. Right after they had said wow! and this is a Lincoln? I told them it was a known problem... Then the window finally rolled down and I rolled it back up after a horrendous grind/screech and left it there.
Dropped it off Saturday morning, So the they could replace the mechanism. Not waiting until I am driving with the window in the slot. Tom 12253 I feel your pain, especially since it happened to us around the same time.
Just installed the factory-match kit from Joshua Tree Wood Trim and I must retract my earlier post about the kit being real wood. Since this was for the Project LS-GT car and I had a couple of pieces that I could sacrifice, I split one open. The good news is that this stuff can take some serious bending before it breaks. The bad news is if there is any wood in this kit it has to be really, really thin because I couldn't find it.
I separated the 3M tape from the piece and then used an Xacto blade to slice away the epoxy covering. When I got down to where the wood was supposed to be all I found was the plastic look-alike stuff. I'll be chatting with them tomorrow to see if they still believe that they have wood in their kit and asking them where it is.
I suspect they aren't the only ones though. Most of these kits appear to be manufactured by the same company so if you get a factory-match kit expect it to be the fake "wud" stuff.
It does still look very nice and matches the factory "wud" perfectly. So don't let that stop you from getting the kit. Just be aware that it isn't really wood.
Brian(who owes a humble apology to Joe for doubting his word!)
Well, I didn't think their report was *that* positive. They're still complaining about the transmission as if they would lose face if they ever admitted it is actually a very good transmission, once updated with the latest TSB and trained. They also nit pick endlessly about the fake look of the wood trim that looks just as fake as the wood trim in most cars, including BMWs that have it. They do seem to appreciate the V8, but complain about the throttle action being hard to modulate. I never have ANY problem with this at all. I suspect they have coordination problems or something (or maybe its just that I don't need to *modulate* very much ;-).
To drolds1, I too have the same Pioneer speakers that you have. IMHO they are good speakers. It's just that they are mounted low in the doors, combined with the passenger cabin being a bit narrow. Therefore, our legs are so close to the speakers that they become "dampers", and sound doesn't disperse upward very well. I have a similar situation in my S-10 pick-up.
Besides the speakers being low in the doors, they are angled down at the floor. I imagine this was done for the door panel design, but it puts a damper on any speaker we install. Even with these factors the replacements make a large improvement over the stock speakers.
Artie, Have about 14,000 miles on my LS now. I called the dealer this mourning about the window. He is ordering the mechanism overnight and hopefully I'll have it repaired tomorrow. He said he never heard of this problem before. I told him there has to be some info on the window crash problem. Ford is obviously aware of the problem, since they redesigned the part. I have the window taped up and hoping that it gets fixed tomorrow. I wish they could replace the other side now instead of waiting for it to crash first.
If you live in the tri-state area and you haven't signed up for the Owners Meeting on April 11, 5:00pm on Media Day, there are still about 10 spots available. Email me at brian.gowing@llsoc.com if you are interested in attending. If you don't you'll miss out on some big things! Here's more info. on the show.
This year marks the 101st anniversary edition of the New York International Auto Show, North America's first and largest auto show. The show features more than 1000 cars, trucks, SUV's and minivans plus a large selection of futuristic concept cars, elegant classics, and exciting exotics. In addition, the 2001 show will highlight the latest in automotive technology, safety and environmental enhancement.
My LS is a 4/99 build and I bought it in May of 1999. I think it might have been the first LS registered in Polk county. I bought it from Willey, Inc. in Ames, Iowa. I tried Stivers but at that time, supplies were a little tight and Stivers didn't have a car to suit me. I only tried Stiver's service department once for the creaking driver's window and they basically told me to just live with it. That is when I found that silicone lube down the track would fix it (at least temporarily).
We moved to Minneapolis in January of 2000 and I have used Prestige LM for the first reflash, the recalls, and the steering wheel retrofit.
Like your Mom's, mine is silver with the dark charcoal interior and moonroof. Mine is a V8, though, so the next time I am in Des Moines, I will look for your Mom and challenge her to a drag race.
For model year 2000 and 2001 so far, the LS is about 25% of Lincoln sales overall. The only higher model is the Town Car running around 44%. Navigator is around 18%. Remainder was the Continental and Mark VIII.
This info. came from BON. So far there are about 60,000 LSs roaming the streets.
I hope Lincoln steps up to the plate better than BMW and probably many others. In my previous car (early 90's 3 series BMW), the vinyl on the interior door panels frequently "shrunk", causing a bubbling of sorts where your arm would rest. Fix was to replace the interior door panel. 1st replacements were not improved, but later, the vinyl seemed thicker, and didnt bubble up. The culprit was high heat, which killed the adhesive. Short story: If your panel bubbled up during warranty, no problem. If your panel bubbled up after warranty, but you were a frequent customer of that dealers service dept, (translation=spent big bucks at the dealer's service department) then more than likely, at least some of your cost for the defect would be covered. If you were a do it yourselfer, and spent no money at the service dept? Then if that panel went south post-warranty, chances of BMW paying for that defective panel were slim to none and slim left town.
I know aut manufacturers have to stay in business, but if you have a defect, live up to it. YOu may end up keeping some customers for the next vehicle.
Names Jeff, just bought a 2001 LS8 in pearl blue with moonroof and alpine stereo (non-sport or premium package). Drove the car this weekend and love the power, yet smooth like a luxury vehicle should be. A good balance, and a tremendous upgrade from my 96 Taurus. Got the car with 14 miles and drove it up to 190. Averaged 20.2 miles per the display.
I think my build is feb '01, but that's from the window sticker. Does anyone know how to tell the actual date, I didn't notice it on the driver door sticker.
I seem to have a great tranny, switches through all gears with ease and no delay from P-R or D-R, both happen in about 1 second. So far, I am a happy new owner going out to show off the new toy.
Want to say thanks to all of you for your posts and feedback. This board combined with the long term test by Edmunds helped convince me this was the car for me. Your enthusiasm is unmatched.
actually I was holding out for anchovies but I am glad I was not too fast to "eat" the Joshua "wood" trim after I was told it was "real wood". I am not sure it matters what they say. It could indeed have "real wood" as the basis for the goop they mix together to make the "wud", but real wood, no matter how finely finished it is, when you get to hold it in your hands just seems to have a different feel and look (maybe even a smell) and this sure didn't look, feel or smell like it, but I concur that it is a perfect match for the LS and looks real nice if you don't go overboard.
I do think you can overdo it if you are not careful. Think carefully before you use the console top (the biggest piece), as it kind of just sits on the top of the plastic console with no transition so it looks like it is just stuck on the top. Also set the back door pieces on where they go and see if you like the look. I didn't, although I didn't realize that until they were stuck on so I might have to live with them. The overhead console (IMHO) doesn't need the wood trim and it too, looks kind of stuck on as opposed to built in. It is still a great kit and easy to do unless you are having a super klutzy day (in which case you might be better off waiting).
Jeff, Welcome to the fold and CONGRATS on your new toy.
You can find the build date on the frame inside the driver's door.
Have you checked out the Lincoln LS Owner's Club yet? www.llsoc.com Lots of good info there.
What part of the country are you in? Have you been warned of the mysterious disease that strikes all LS owners? It's symptoms are uncontrollable urges to take unneeded drives and a lapse in short-term-memory which results in the need to frequent the local convenience store. :-)
It is totally a matter of personal taste, but I really like the full console "wud" trim from Exotic Wood Dash. I thought the stock console looked a little chintzy so I was anxious to cover it up. Some would think it's overkill, but the "wud" on the console combined with the "wud" shifter knob looks pretty classy IMHO. I agree that the piece for the overhead "console" just didn't look like it belonged there.
My 4/99 build has not had any rear window crashing problems but I am a little nervous. Since it is a known defect, I wonder if Lincoln would be helpful even after the warranty expires? I still have about 18,000 miles to go. I doubt that they would replace the window mechanisms with upgraded parts until a failure occurs. Is there anyway to tell just what percentage of owners have had the window problems?
Jeff, congratulations on your purchase! At first, I had a little bit of trouble justifying the price. I had come out of a 94 T'Bird V8 and the LS cost nearly twice as much but it didn't seem twice as good, if you know what I mean. Now, after 2 years and 30,000 miles, I like the LS better than when it was new. We just bought a 2001 Taurus for my wife, and while it is a fine car, the LS is definite step up in every respect.
Recently had the new reflash downloaded; but now I am not able to start from SST-1st. This is from a complete stop after engaging SST-1st kickdown. Anybody else seeing this!!
I went to Blue Oval News & read the article regarding Lincoln vs. Cadillac sales figures that Brian referenced in the above post & found what I consider to be a glaring error and a lack of supporting information.
First of all, there is no attribution of the source of the sales figures. Where did they come from? Second, there is no explanation of the actual time period involved. Since the 2001 figures are said to be from Jan. 1 through Feb. 28, I assume that all the figures represent calendar year, rather than model year, sales. This, however, isn't explained in either the article or the charts; it SHOULD be, but it isn't.
In addition, the 1998 model year was the last for the Mark VIII. Any Mark sales in '99 could only be a handful of leftover '98 models. It seems apparent that the author simply copied the '98 chart and used it as a template for '99 through '01, but he neglected to remove the Mark and its '98 sales numbers. It's an obvious mistake, but to me it indicates a blatant lack of thoroughness in preparing the article, and thereby harms its credibility--if they missed something that obvious, I wonder what else they missed.
If one removes the Mark figures for '99 through '01, the numbers and percentages add up, but a legitimate news source wouldn't make its readers do their own math. I've learned to take ALL BON articles with a large grain of salt and a healthy dose of skepticism.
Note to Brian: This is not meant to be a potshot at you; hope it doesn't sound that way. I just wanted to point out that, as far as I'm concerned, BON is not a paragon of credibility, and its information should not necessarily be taken at face value.
Jeff. I also want to welcome you to the LS Fanatics Club . One more thing for which to be aware. Work, or ANY place for that matter, will be at least twice as far as before! You will also notice that the odometer seems to register way more miles that you think that you've actually driven . Not to fear, it appears that the LS has a special odometer . Enjoy your new ride and visit here often!
Thanks for the good wishes. I am located in San Diego. I plan on making the Ortega Hwy drive real soon. Another drive I recommend it hwy 78 from Escondido to Julian or up Palomar Moutain, for those who live in San Diego County or nearby. I have done both many times on my motorcycle.
I would also like to say that my purchase experience was handled very smoothly at Townsend Lincoln/Mercury in Carlsbad, CA. The salesman, Roberto, was friendly and helpful and although the bartering was necessary, he was forthright and helpful. He even offered to pick up my car and bring it in for the service visits if I wanted, and let me borrow his Town Car :-). Very nice and personable guy.
I will be joining the LLSOC page shortly, I also used info from that page to help make my decision. I especially was enthused by the LS Mania event, and am sorry I missed it. I look forward to the next event in my region.
Brian, milage is getting a little better (up to 16.9). My foot is still a little gleefully heavy but thanks for your own milage inputs... On a separate note...We noticed when I took out the CDs this weekend from the Alpine system they were very hot to handle. We had been driving all day and took them out just when we got home..I think I saw this addressed in a earlier Alpine CD question a month or so ago...any updated info on why this happens and is it normal? Bill
Congrats on your new excuse to drive around for no apparent reason!
Ortega Highway is a blast in the LS. I drive it every day to work and back. Friday I was coming home late from a consulting appointment and Ortega was deserted. Took most of the 30mph turns at 60. Didn't even have the car sliding. Don't know if I would recommend doing this to anyone who doesn't know the car and the road intimately since just about all the turns are blind and shoulder up to mountains on one side and cliffs on the other.
But the LS handled the trip with nary a ruffle. Me, on the other hand, had a serious case of pucker power from the drive.
The Southern California LLSOC contingent still needs a chapter coordinator, if anyone want to volunteer. I'm going to attempt to plan an outing from San Diego to Julian after the NY Auto Show for the far south members.
johnnylinc: No worries. I too, usually take BON with a grain of salt. I was more interested in the percentages which if accurate, show that the LS is VERY important to Lincoln and supports what we've been told by Lincoln.
Jeff, we're practically neighbors, I'm in San Marcos. Bought our LS from what is now Witt. Went through the Auto Club, even though they have "no haggle pricing". Their parts are significantly lower than Townsend, or Ford dealers. We drove up to Julian a couple weeks ago. My wife "advised" me that unless I wanted a mess on her side of the car, I had better slow down . Have you driven the 78 towards Borrego? I made wifey sick on that road too !
Is interesting that Edmunds's Long Term test results show them achieving 17.2 mpg during their 24,000 miles. I forgot what C&D recorded over their 40,000 mile test.
Given the LS's moderate weight and engine size (both 3.9L and 3.0L) fuel economy isn't a strong suit of LS. My 5.7L V-8 '96 Impala SS weighs about 600 pounds more and gets better mileage, esp. on highway, then my '00 LS8 Sport. And the LS8 requires premium. Is it due to gearing? Drivetrain inefficiencies? I drive both cars in a similar fashion.
I typically get around 22 mpg in town and 24-27 highway driving. I have a Californian V-8 and most veteran posters know by now that I drive, what would euphemistically be called "spirited".
Personally, I don't see a problem with my fuel mileage.
I printed them out on my laser printer and found the lettering hard to read on the darker one. Maybe that's because I'm pushing fifty and my vision and other things aren't what they used to be. My choice after looking at them on paper would be the lighter one.
I like the look of the darker one, but it is a little difficult to read the letters. Maybe make the letters white instead of gray but keep the star gray. Also, making it bigger seems to help.
I also printed out both of them, but using a bubble jet. A little difficult to read either one, but then I took it a step further and made a copy (thinking about the intro letter) of the print out. The light one came out with no lettering at all, about half of the horizontal part of the star and a poor rendition of the LS. The dark one ended up as just a black rectangle with a smidge of gray inside.
I think we will need a version of the light one, but in solid black, if we plan to do any printing/copying.
Please keep in mind these are just poor copies of the original that Eric LaCombe created. I just wanted to get a gauge on what everyone thought of the side shadow and wording. I think it is a classier look than the old logo. We both agree that the black looks cool, but would be terrible for printing, not to mention that using it on a website would require a black site. Yuck!
It will be sharpened and made more viewable as we go along. Eric is going to play with the color schemes to get them more noticeable. And the website will be added to the bottom. I may have an updated one tomorrow that I will post.
I didn't want to give the impressin that I'm unhappy with the Pioneers. I am. It was a vast improvement. It looks we are in agreement about speaker placement though. I am now wondering if the TSA6895's would have been a better choice for this application. Although they are 2-ways, they have a rotatable horn tweeter. This might help to compensate for the downward aim we are forced into.
Brian-sorry, but will there be any other logo choices? Although classier than the original, I'm finding these a little too understated even for my conservative taste.
The SST has never had the ability to start in 1st gear from a standing start. Everytime the car comes to a complete stop the SST start gear is 2nd. You can upshift to start in 3rd, but you cannot downshift to start in 1st.
Pulled out C&D's 40,000 LS8 Sport test (3/01). They report observed fuel economy at 22 mpg.
C&D had previously reported the following: (1) 15 mpg in their 600 mile LS8 Sport road trip (5/00), (2) 17 mpg in their LS6 5-speed manual test (11/99), and (3) 21 mpg in their 1,050 mile LS6 automatic trip (2/00).
As of 2/01 MT reported their LS8 Sport averaging 15.2 mpg over 12,126 miles; it had been averaging 14.7 mpg over first 10,300 (11/00). As of 12/00, R&T reported their LS8 Sport getting 19.7 mpg for first 28,390 miles. It had achieved 19.1 mpg during the first 13,988 miles; 19.3 mpg during first 8,525 miles; and 20.1 during very first 1,670 miles. Consumer Reports saw 23 mpg in their LS6 automatic (12/99).
I took my LS back to Pavilion LM first this morning so they could fix the radio again. I called the service writer and the service manager over to hear the problem. I asked them to explain why I had to take off work this morning for the problem they fixed last week. They did not have an acceptable answer for me. What they did say was this was a common problem involving loose ground wires. They also said that Ford sends all radio repairs in the Austin area to a vendor by the name of H&H Radio.I called another Ford dealer and he told me the same thing. I told the manager I needed a car to drive and that I wasn't paying for another "free" loaner. I guess they were all booked up and he asked me if it would be ok if H&H Radio came to my office to fix the car. I went along with the deal expecting H&H Radio to come to my office to fix the car so I left the dealership for work around 7:15 AM or so. As the day went on I kept waiting for a call from either Pavilion or H&H Radio telling me they were coming out. Finally at 3:30 PM I gave up on them and called the Lincoln Customer Care Center to complain. I asked them if this was the level of service I can expect from Lincoln. They said no and they will look into it. I plan on going on a road trip next weekend in a car that cost $35K with no tunes. Lincoln Commitment??? I think the car is a great car, I really enjoy driving it when my wife will let me. I just cannot or will not accept this level of service from Ford.
If it is any consolation, my LS8 Sport has been in the shop since 3/23/01. This will be the 5th or 6th time, I've lost track, it has been in for the same repair: airbag warning light comes on and won't go off. Each time it has been in for over 4 days. I usually get the same LS8 loaner. I've driven it so much it has my radio and memory seat presets!
Frankly, I don't understand all the whopla over MPG. If I had wanted to get good mileage I'd have bought a Civic or one of the hybrids. Even with the prices we San Diegans are paying I still don't really care. The car is a blast to drive and that is what I do with it. IMHO worrying about MPG on this car is kinda like asking how much that Porsche costs. If you have to ask......
But total ownership costs mean a lot to me. That includes negotiating a good deal for both the new car and trade in, insurance costs, maintenance & repairs, depreciation, and fuel costs. For many owners the LS's fuel economy isn't meeting the EPA sticker estimate. Same for many of the published automotive press reports. The LS owner also has to buy premium fuel. Cadillac's 300 hp Northstar engine runs on Regular 87 octane.
A 3,600 pound car like the LS with either a 3.0L or 3.9L motor should be able to get at least 26 mpg, if not more, while cruising at 65-75 mph on interstate. In '00 EPA said Aurora 3.5L V-6 gets 28 mpg hwy, Pontiac Bonneville 3.8L V-6 gets 30 mpg & 3.8L V-6 Supercharged gets 28 mpg, Cadillac DeVille 4.6L V-8 gets 28 mpg, & Cadillac Eldo & Seville 4.6L V-8 get 26 mpg. My '00 LS8 Sport has 23 mpg EPA sticker; I count myself fortunate to get 23 mpg on interstate. This is an area Lincoln should address. Possibly change 5th gear ratio?
Fuel economy was not uppermost in my mind when I chose my LS. However, the 3.9 uses a surprising amount of fuel, IMHO. I rent cars all over the country for business purposes and frequently get a Continental which has the 4.6 DOHC engine. I routinely get 26-27 on the highway with the Continental but under the same driving conditions, my LS gets 23-24. Don't get me wrong - The LS is far superior in every other way but one would expect the 3.9 LS to meet or surpass the MPG of the Conti.
I wouldn't want much different overall gear ratio in the LS. It's .75 overdrive and 3.58 axle (or 3.31, depending on the build date) is not that aggressive. In real world conditions, I haven't heard much economy advantage to the 3.31 axle over the original 3.58. It just seems to me that there is more potential for fuel efficiency and power in the 3.9 than the engineers have found so far.
On the plus side, the 3.9 is probably the smoothest V8 I have ever seen. It also has a very expensive sound that I love to hear at 6000 RPM. Hmmm....You don't suppose my desire to hear that sound has any effect on gas mileage, do you......? :-)
is a little ambiguous in my opinion. I like the caption part, but the profile..um..er..doesn't do much. Maybe a front quarter profile in a similar style? I better stick to my day job and give up on becoming an art critic ;-D
"LS automatic's 5th should be numerically lower. That would increase top speed (if not otherwise drag limited),..."
With the .75 overdrive and 3.58 axle ratio, the 3.9L power peak occurs at about 160 MPH. A lower numeric ratio would put the power peak at a higher speed, a speed at which the power required would be well in excess of power available.
It's possible, that with a lower numeric ratio, top speed would be greater in fourth gear than in fifth.
This is based on my belief that the maximum speed a vehicle can achieve is when the power required curve intersects the power available curve at its peak.
Drove my son's LS for the last 2 weeks and now I really understand what the excitement is all about on this board. He has a V8 Sport, early build with the trans reflash. It's quite a smooth, powerful, and refined machine!
I only hope that Linclon's new design guy from England doesn't destroy what the LS has been able to accomplish! In addition to good designs, Linclon needs to shore up it's dealer network. Buying a Linclon shouldn't be like buying a Ford Focus!
No, I'm FAR from rich. I've NEVER achieved the EPA mileage on that sticker. Out here in The Peoples Republic of California we have "special" emmisions standards and "special" fuel which combine to kill our mpg. The air quality bubbas tell us that our "special" fuel has 10% less energy yet it will have a less that 1% effect on our mpg. HUH????? My Duratec equipped Sable never got the same mpg as my 3.8L Sable. I grew up during the "gas shortages" (kinda like our electric "shortages", but I digress) in the 70's. I used to figure my mpg with every tank. After a while I figured that there was not much I could do to to get close to the EPA ratings, so I quit cyphering. My only point is that if one REALLY cared about mpg, this isn't the car for them. One must decide if operating costs are the primary reason for purchase or some other criteria is. If it is the former, than the LS shouldn't be the car of choice. I do understand the "concern" about the low initial mpg. I almost had a heart attack when my first few tanks were in the mid teens with mostly freeway driving. My mpg is now comperable to my Sable. Low 20's with mixed driving. I'm not trying to start a war, it's just that I quit believing the EPA with my first new car, a 1977 Plymouth Arrow.
Since the topic of gas milage has come around again,I must be exceptionally lucky or my trip computer is really optimistic. This past winter, we averaged 18.5 MPG during all around, but mostly city driving. We haven't been on any extended highway trips yet this year, but the annual vacation is coming up again in a couple of months. Last year, with the car virtually brand new, it returned 28.5 MPG at a steady 65-70 MPH cruise.... Now for the disclaimer, all figures are by way of the car's computer.
Purely from a socio-economic standpoint, I'll put you down as solidly upper middle class or lower upper class! Of course, ALGORE and Dems will veiw you as being hyper rich, but I digress.
My historical experience going back about 20 years is that I almost always get higher highway mileage than the EPA highway estimate. My '96 Infinit G20t automatic had EPA highway estimate of 28 mpg. I would always get 32-33 mpg on interstate doing 74 mph with wife and kids. My '97 Camaro 3.8L V-6 w/5-speed manual had a 30 mpg EPA highway estimate. I would get 30-32 mpg. My '96 Impala SS has a 25 mpg EPA highway estimate. I beat that on interstate, including last May with wife, kids, and trunk full of luggage while on a 1,500 mile trip, averaging over 80 mph and spending a lot of time in Colorado mountains. I beat the EPA highway estimate in my '93 Concorde. Only car I remember I couldn't was my '95 Plymouth Neon Sport w/5-speed, but it had a ridiculous 39 mpg estimate. Now matter how hard I tried (including windows up and no a/c while using cruise control going downhill on a still moderate day), I'd get about 34-36 mpg at 74 mph.
Now I work hard at just meeting the EPA highway estimate in my '00 LS8 Sport, even with tires inflated to 35 psi and using cruise control on ordinary days. And it ticks me off a bit when I fuel up next to the big boat, big engine Caddy who gets better mileage and uses regular octane!
I find it fascinating that the '01 LS8 & LS8 Sport lost lots of little "goodies" due to EPA considerations. Had to drop a smidgen of weight to stay within EPA targets. I prize my Audiophile sound with 6-disc CD changer, adjustable rear headrests, and full size spare with alloy rim!!! IMHO, I think Lincoln can leave final drive ratios alone but 5-speed manual should have an overdrive 5th and the LS automatic's 5th should be numerically lower. That would increase top speed (if not otherwise drag limited), increase highway fuel economy, leave most acceleration times alone, and reduce engine RPMs on highway. Best of all worlds? Heck, most people downshift from 5th to 4th or 3rd to pass, esp. on 2 lane roads. Who passes in overdrive, unless you have no one up ahead coming towards and lots of room to pass?
Comments
Now the bad news, my driver side rear window mechanism craped out today. I took the mechanism off but was unable to fix it. The cable jammed up around the main pulley. I taped the window up and will contact the dealer tomorrow. I'm hoping they stock the part. Has anyone who has had the unit replaced with an updated one had the other still functioning one replaced by there dealer at the same time?
Per your post of the other day, are you finding that sitting further back allows you to hear more from the rears? I really wish the speakers were mounted higher in the doors. My ankles are going deaf. I've noticed that my Pioneer TSA6865's sound better when my wife opens the door to get out. However, this is a bit impractical for most driving situations. Seriously though, it does demonstrate (to me at least) either that the speaker placement is not ideal or the Pioneers are not the best for this application.
Enjoy your "new" sound system. I hope to see you at the NY auto show- Artie
Dropped it off Saturday morning, So the they could replace the mechanism. Not waiting until I am driving with the window in the slot. Tom 12253 I feel your pain, especially since it happened to us around the same time.
We'll see how the repair goes tomorrow.
Regards,
Victor
I separated the 3M tape from the piece and then used an Xacto blade to slice away the epoxy covering. When I got down to where the wood was supposed to be all I found was the plastic look-alike stuff. I'll be chatting with them tomorrow to see if they still believe that they have wood in their kit and asking them where it is.
I suspect they aren't the only ones though. Most of these kits appear to be manufactured by the same company so if you get a factory-match kit expect it to be the fake "wud" stuff.
It does still look very nice and matches the factory "wud" perfectly. So don't let that stop you from getting the kit. Just be aware that it isn't really wood.
Brian(who owes a humble apology to Joe for doubting his word!)
Good, because for once, or maybe our venting has finally done some good, Edmunds actually had a good write-up about their long-term LS car.
Brian
I have a similar situation in my S-10 pick-up.
Artie,
Have about 14,000 miles on my LS now. I called the dealer this mourning about the window. He is ordering the mechanism overnight and hopefully I'll have it repaired tomorrow. He said he never heard of this problem before. I told him there has to be some info on the window crash problem. Ford is obviously aware of the problem, since they redesigned the part. I have the window taped up and hoping that it gets fixed tomorrow. I wish they could replace the other side now instead of waiting for it to crash first.
Tom
This year marks the 101st anniversary edition of the New York International Auto Show, North America's first and largest auto show.
The show features more than 1000 cars, trucks, SUV's and minivans plus a large selection of futuristic concept cars, elegant classics, and exciting exotics.
In addition, the 2001 show will highlight the latest in automotive technology, safety and environmental enhancement.
Show Hours: Friday 4/13 1p-8p Public Sneak Preview
Saturday 4/14 11a-10:30p
Sunday 4/15 10a-7p
Monday 4/16 11a-10:30p
Tuesday 4/17 11a-10:30p
Wednesday 4/18 11a-10:30p
Thursday 4/19 11a-10:30p
Friday 4/20 11a-10:30p
Saturday 4/21 11a-10:30p
Sunday 4/22 10a-7p
Brian
My LS is a 4/99 build and I bought it in May of 1999. I think it might have been the first LS registered in Polk county. I bought it from Willey, Inc. in Ames, Iowa. I tried Stivers but at that time, supplies were a little tight and Stivers didn't have a car to suit me. I only tried Stiver's service department once for the creaking driver's window and they basically told me to just live with it. That is when I found that silicone lube down the track would fix it (at least temporarily).
We moved to Minneapolis in January of 2000 and I have used Prestige LM for the first reflash, the recalls, and the steering wheel retrofit.
Like your Mom's, mine is silver with the dark charcoal interior and moonroof. Mine is a V8, though, so the next time I am in Des Moines, I will look for your Mom and challenge her to a drag race.
Bruce
This info. came from BON. So far there are about 60,000 LSs roaming the streets.
Brian
I know aut manufacturers have to stay in business, but if you have a defect, live up to it. YOu may end up keeping some customers for the next vehicle.
Thanks
a
I think my build is feb '01, but that's from the window sticker. Does anyone know how to tell the actual date, I didn't notice it on the driver door sticker.
I seem to have a great tranny, switches through all gears with ease and no delay from P-R or D-R, both happen in about 1 second. So far, I am a happy new owner going out to show off the new toy.
Want to say thanks to all of you for your posts and feedback. This board combined with the long term test by Edmunds helped convince me this was the car for me. Your enthusiasm is unmatched.
I do think you can overdo it if you are not careful. Think carefully before you use the console top (the biggest piece), as it kind of just sits on the top of the plastic console with no transition so it looks like it is just stuck on the top. Also set the back door pieces on where they go and see if you like the look. I didn't, although I didn't realize that until they were stuck on so I might have to live with them. The overhead console (IMHO) doesn't need the wood trim and it too, looks kind of stuck on as opposed to built in. It is still a great kit and easy to do unless you are having a super klutzy day (in which case you might be better off waiting).
I think the Mark VIII died at the end of 1999 and was 'replaced' by the LS... so the remaining 13% would be the Continental.
Welcome to the fold and CONGRATS on your new toy.
You can find the build date on the frame inside the driver's door.
Have you checked out the Lincoln LS Owner's Club yet? www.llsoc.com Lots of good info there.
What part of the country are you in? Have you been warned of the mysterious disease that strikes all LS owners? It's symptoms are uncontrollable urges to take unneeded drives and a lapse in short-term-memory which results in the need to frequent the local convenience store. :-)
Joe
My 4/99 build has not had any rear window crashing problems but I am a little nervous. Since it is a known defect, I wonder if Lincoln would be helpful even after the warranty expires? I still have about 18,000 miles to go. I doubt that they would replace the window mechanisms with upgraded parts until a failure occurs. Is there anyway to tell just what percentage of owners have had the window problems?
Jeff, congratulations on your purchase! At first, I had a little bit of trouble justifying the price. I had come out of a 94 T'Bird V8 and the LS cost nearly twice as much but it didn't seem twice as good, if you know what I mean. Now, after 2 years and 30,000 miles, I like the LS better than when it was new. We just bought a 2001 Taurus for my wife, and while it is a fine car, the LS is definite step up in every respect.
Bruce
First of all, there is no attribution of the source of the sales figures. Where did they come from? Second, there is no explanation of the actual time period involved. Since the 2001 figures are said to be from Jan. 1 through Feb. 28, I assume that all the figures represent calendar year, rather than model year, sales. This, however, isn't explained in either the article or the charts; it SHOULD be, but it isn't.
In addition, the 1998 model year was the last for the Mark VIII. Any Mark sales in '99 could only be a handful of leftover '98 models. It seems apparent that the author simply copied the '98 chart and used it as a template for '99 through '01, but he neglected to remove the Mark and its '98 sales numbers. It's an obvious mistake, but to me it indicates a blatant lack of thoroughness in preparing the article, and thereby harms its credibility--if they missed something that obvious, I wonder what else they missed.
If one removes the Mark figures for '99 through '01, the numbers and percentages add up, but a legitimate news source wouldn't make its readers do their own math. I've learned to take ALL BON articles with a large grain of salt and a healthy dose of skepticism.
Note to Brian: This is not meant to be a potshot at you; hope it doesn't sound that way. I just wanted to point out that, as far as I'm concerned, BON is not a paragon of credibility, and its information should not necessarily be taken at face value.
I would also like to say that my purchase experience was handled very smoothly at Townsend Lincoln/Mercury in Carlsbad, CA. The salesman, Roberto, was friendly and helpful and although the bartering was necessary, he was forthright and helpful. He even offered to pick up my car and bring it in for the service visits if I wanted, and let me borrow his Town Car :-). Very nice and personable guy.
I will be joining the LLSOC page shortly, I also used info from that page to help make my decision. I especially was enthused by the LS Mania event, and am sorry I missed it. I look forward to the next event in my region.
Thanks again,
Jeff
On a separate note...We noticed when I took out the CDs this weekend from the Alpine system they were very hot to handle. We had been driving all day and took them out just when we got home..I think I saw this addressed in a earlier Alpine CD question a month or so ago...any updated info on why this happens and is it normal?
Bill
Ortega Highway is a blast in the LS. I drive it every day to work and back. Friday I was coming home late from a consulting appointment and Ortega was deserted. Took most of the 30mph turns at 60. Didn't even have the car sliding. Don't know if I would recommend doing this to anyone who doesn't know the car and the road intimately since just about all the turns are blind and shoulder up to mountains on one side and cliffs on the other.
But the LS handled the trip with nary a ruffle. Me, on the other hand, had a serious case of pucker power from the drive.
The Southern California LLSOC contingent still needs a chapter coordinator, if anyone want to volunteer. I'm going to attempt to plan an outing from San Diego to Julian after the NY Auto Show for the far south members.
johnnylinc: No worries. I too, usually take BON with a grain of salt. I was more interested in the percentages which if accurate, show that the LS is VERY important to Lincoln and supports what we've been told by Lincoln.
Brian
Given the LS's moderate weight and engine size (both 3.9L and 3.0L) fuel economy isn't a strong suit of LS. My 5.7L V-8 '96 Impala SS weighs about 600 pounds more and gets better mileage, esp. on highway, then my '00 LS8 Sport. And the LS8 requires premium. Is it due to gearing? Drivetrain inefficiencies? I drive both cars in a similar fashion.
Personally, I don't see a problem with my fuel mileage.
or
Tom
I also printed out both of them, but using a bubble jet. A little difficult to read either one, but then I took it a step further and made a copy (thinking about the intro letter) of the print out. The light one came out with no lettering at all, about half of the horizontal part of the star and a poor rendition of the LS. The dark one ended up as just a black rectangle with a smidge of gray inside.
I think we will need a version of the light one, but in solid black, if we plan to do any printing/copying.
Bruno
It seems clear that neither picture is "clear".
I like the general idea but the lighter one needs to be darker and vice versa.
Although the black one is classy looking, be sensitive to the printing issues it may cause not only on letter heads but on clothing as well.
Perhaps something between the two would work... Medium gray background, dark gray car/LM symbol, and black lettering.
Should you explicitly show the web address?
Joe
It will be sharpened and made more viewable as we go along. Eric is going to play with the color schemes to get them more noticeable. And the website will be added to the bottom. I may have an updated one tomorrow that I will post.
Brian
Brian-sorry, but will there be any other logo choices? Although classier than the original, I'm finding these a little too understated even for my conservative taste.
Artie
The SST has never had the ability to start in 1st gear from a standing start. Everytime the car comes to a complete stop the SST start gear is 2nd. You can upshift to start in 3rd, but you cannot downshift to start in 1st.
Does this answer your question?
Mark
C&D had previously reported the following: (1) 15 mpg in their 600 mile LS8 Sport road trip (5/00), (2) 17 mpg in their LS6 5-speed manual test (11/99), and (3) 21 mpg in their 1,050 mile LS6 automatic trip (2/00).
As of 2/01 MT reported their LS8 Sport averaging 15.2 mpg over 12,126 miles; it had been averaging 14.7 mpg over first 10,300 (11/00). As of 12/00, R&T reported their LS8 Sport getting 19.7 mpg for first 28,390 miles. It had achieved 19.1 mpg during the first 13,988 miles; 19.3 mpg during first 8,525 miles; and 20.1 during very first 1,670 miles. Consumer Reports saw 23 mpg in their LS6 automatic (12/99).
I think the car is a great car, I really enjoy driving it when my wife will let me. I just cannot or will not accept this level of service from Ford.
A 3,600 pound car like the LS with either a 3.0L or 3.9L motor should be able to get at least 26 mpg, if not more, while cruising at 65-75 mph on interstate. In '00 EPA said Aurora 3.5L V-6 gets 28 mpg hwy, Pontiac Bonneville 3.8L V-6 gets 30 mpg & 3.8L V-6 Supercharged gets 28 mpg, Cadillac DeVille 4.6L V-8 gets 28 mpg, & Cadillac Eldo & Seville 4.6L V-8 get 26 mpg. My '00 LS8 Sport has 23 mpg EPA sticker; I count myself fortunate to get 23 mpg on interstate. This is an area Lincoln should address. Possibly change 5th gear ratio?
I wouldn't want much different overall gear ratio in the LS. It's .75 overdrive and 3.58 axle (or 3.31, depending on the build date) is not that aggressive. In real world conditions, I haven't heard much economy advantage to the 3.31 axle over the original 3.58. It just seems to me that there is more potential for fuel efficiency and power in the 3.9 than the engineers have found so far.
On the plus side, the 3.9 is probably the smoothest V8 I have ever seen. It also has a very expensive sound that I love to hear at 6000 RPM. Hmmm....You don't suppose my desire to hear that sound has any effect on gas mileage, do you......? :-)
Bruce
"LS automatic's 5th should be numerically lower. That would increase top speed (if not otherwise drag limited),..."
With the .75 overdrive and 3.58 axle ratio, the 3.9L power peak occurs at about 160 MPH. A lower numeric ratio would put the power peak at a higher speed, a speed at which the power required would be well in excess of power available.
It's possible, that with a lower numeric ratio, top speed would be greater in fourth gear than in fifth.
This is based on my belief that the maximum speed a vehicle can achieve is when the power required curve intersects the power available curve at its peak.
I only hope that Linclon's new design guy from England doesn't destroy what the LS has been able to accomplish! In addition to good designs, Linclon needs to shore up it's dealer network. Buying a Linclon shouldn't be like buying a Ford Focus!
http://www.autonews.com/html/main/index.html
I like it for its content and classy looks.
This past winter, we averaged 18.5 MPG during all around, but mostly city driving. We haven't been on any extended highway trips yet this year, but the annual vacation is coming up again in a couple of months. Last year, with the car virtually brand new, it returned 28.5 MPG at a steady 65-70 MPH cruise.... Now for the disclaimer, all figures are by way of the car's computer.
My historical experience going back about 20 years is that I almost always get higher highway mileage than the EPA highway estimate. My '96 Infinit G20t automatic had EPA highway estimate of 28 mpg. I would always get 32-33 mpg on interstate doing 74 mph with wife and kids. My '97 Camaro 3.8L V-6 w/5-speed manual had a 30 mpg EPA highway estimate. I would get 30-32 mpg. My '96 Impala SS has a 25 mpg EPA highway estimate. I beat that on interstate, including last May with wife, kids, and trunk full of luggage while on a 1,500 mile trip, averaging over 80 mph and spending a lot of time in Colorado mountains. I beat the EPA highway estimate in my '93 Concorde. Only car I remember I couldn't was my '95 Plymouth Neon Sport w/5-speed, but it had a ridiculous 39 mpg estimate. Now matter how hard I tried (including windows up and no a/c while using cruise control going downhill on a still moderate day), I'd get about 34-36 mpg at 74 mph.
Now I work hard at just meeting the EPA highway estimate in my '00 LS8 Sport, even with tires inflated to 35 psi and using cruise control on ordinary days. And it ticks me off a bit when I fuel up next to the big boat, big engine Caddy who gets better mileage and uses regular octane!
I find it fascinating that the '01 LS8 & LS8 Sport lost lots of little "goodies" due to EPA considerations. Had to drop a smidgen of weight to stay within EPA targets. I prize my Audiophile sound with 6-disc CD changer, adjustable rear headrests, and full size spare with alloy rim!!! IMHO, I think Lincoln can leave final drive ratios alone but 5-speed manual should have an overdrive 5th and the LS automatic's 5th should be numerically lower. That would increase top speed (if not otherwise drag limited), increase highway fuel economy, leave most acceleration times alone, and reduce engine RPMs on highway. Best of all worlds? Heck, most people downshift from 5th to 4th or 3rd to pass, esp. on 2 lane roads. Who passes in overdrive, unless you have no one up ahead coming towards and lots of room to pass?