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Comments
The salesman was a little surprised when he lifted the spare tire cover to show off the features. The jug's still there. Hey, maybe I'll need it some day. :-)
Not that I use either, I am just curious since the owner who tested the LS seemed to think really high of the AT option and how it passed his expectations.
The in-dash CD changer will be standard equipment on all '02 models. As in '01, the cassette deck is not available on the Sport model. You can, however, get the cassette on the non-Sport in a package with the Audiophile system and the glove-box CD changer. The cassette is no longer available with the standard sound system.
The message center, unfortunately, still won't be available on the '02 V6.
(Someone please correct me if I'm wrong; I don't think I've ever seen an '01 manual in the flesh.)
Brian
For $139 I've got to wonder if that isn't more than a simple drain and refill. The dealer does my oil changes and they're competitive, price wise. Motorcraft synthetic and filter change runs around $54. Last time I looked Grease Monkey was charging $50 for a 5 qt. Mobil 1 change.
I wonder if Mark can tell us if there's a specified process that dealers follow.
2. How are they doing it?
3. What is the redline figure for this revised engine(s)? At what RPM is it developing this new torque level?
4. Any change in HP?
If there's any good news, the data sheet says that heated seats are included at no charge. The data sheet doesn't show prices, and I haven't found the '02 price list posted anywhere.
Sorry for the bad info on my part--I'll try to do better research next time.
Another interesting difference between the 05/07 and 07/01 data sheets is that the earlier one still had the V6 listed at 210 h.p. @6500 r.p.m. and 205 torque @4750; the 07/01 sheet shows the V6 having 220 h.p. @6400 and 215 torque @4800. Compression ratio is still 10.5-to-1. The V8 for '02 is still shown to have a 6 ft.lb. reduction in torque to 261 @4300; that's also what is shown on the 05/07 data sheet.
I believe that '02 LS production begins tomorrow, so I assume that these changes will be in place for Job 1.
Engine sizes are still shown as 3.0 and 3.9; my best guess on the method used for boosting the V6 would be improved breathing, but that's merely wild speculation on my part. ;-)
Redline stays the same for the V6.
The V6 Manual is looking more and more attractive. Wonder how the 2002 power changes will affect Lincolns published performance times for the V8 and V6 manual? Used to be 7.2 and 7.4 0-60 (for those who care about 0-60 numbers) respectively. Sounds like that gap may be closing even further.
As a sidenote, there are a couple of brand new LS's for auction on ebay, including a V6 Manual, if Im not mistaken.
If a shop has a different price for a change with and without a converter service, the price without the converter service must be for only changing the fluid in the pan. While changing just the pan fluid is better than nothing, less than half of the total fluid can be changed in this service.
Mark
When you're on a page that doesn't have this photo, the format reverts back to normal. You can verify this by clicking on the "scroll up 20 messages" link.
As a computer wonk, I can verify that this is what we call a "feature".
and John- I thought that might be it, but then dismissed it as coincidence. Thanks! I guess all will be ok when we get off this page?
For Brain's transgression, I propose that he moderate a face-to-face debate between sirharper of the 300M board and our own Giowa
Oh Geez! Anything but that! I thought torture was outlawed!
Brian
Thanks
Also, what changes were made in the exhaust system? Resonators, mufflers, cats, and/or pipe diameter(s). Is this "bolt-in"?
Although, it's only related, The new July issue of Car and Driver has a full test of the new T-Bird and on page 62 states that it has :
"Final Drive Ratio.......3:58,limited slip"
I doubt if both of these are correct, and both could be wrong. I can believe the 3:58 because the T-Bird, despite being heavier than the LS-8, did 7 seconds flat from 0-60 in C&D and R&T tests.
But if a limited slip pumpkin is available for our rear end, I will be at my dealer's parts department today!
Finally, what 0-60 improvement does an additional 10 hp make in the 2002 Manual? Thanks, Curious Stanny1
I just changed the fluid/filter on my sister's 92 Cougar. I was only able to drain about 5 quarts of the 12 or 13 listed in the manual (ie rest of it in torque converter.) Let me tell you... unless you have a huge pan for draining, a way to get the car pretty far off of the ground and a lot of patience... go with the dealer's $139. That sounds like a fairly decent price to me considering parts & labor (and I love to 'work' on cars.) PLUS, my sister's car has a filler tube/dipstick in the engine compartment, so filling was a snap... can't imagine dealing with the filler hole underneath!
Just make sure they are draining the torque converter in that price, though - or I would say you would be getting ripped off.
"Jim Rogers has been named to the newly created position of marketing strategy manager of the Premier Automotive Group....."
"In his new post, Rogers will be responsible for the creation of synergies between the North American Premier Automotive Group brands and the development of best practices. "
We can all attest that Jim is very deserving of this reward. His efforts on this board and with the LLSOC are nothing short of amazing.
So now, what's the next step? When is Nasser retiring? :-)
Congrats Jim,
Joe
Well back to you... I think most everyone on this forum will agree that each succeeding LS cleans up the problems of the last, so my assumption is to buy the latest. I have an 01 LS V8 sports package and I highly reccomend the extra cost for the performance and feel you get out of it. I also love my Firestones, they have been great so far!
Bill
M5, 240C-6 and expensive Manual transmission sport sedans really wanted slush boxes but didn't know they were available. Like who would pay 70k+ for an M5 - just the fastest production four door on the planet.
I am having delayed engagements from 1'st to 2'nd as well as some intermittant
hesitation when accellerating up a hill or when stomping the pedal to pass on the highway.
I had a reflash done last year.
The question. Is TSB 01-01-05 the second update or is this the same one as before.
MY recollection is that there has been 2 updates to the trans.
Is this correct?
Thanks in advance for the info.
PS I got a Mercury Sable as a loaner..now I know why I got an LS!!
Mark
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=2045
I hope, Jim, that you'll continue to stay in touch with us.
Artie
For all you V6 manual enthusiasts, I'm publishing a letter I sent to Brian at the LLSOC.
"Hey Brian,
The system arrived this morning as promised thank you!). The box was too big to fit in the car, so we (me and several interested co-workers) opened it and admired the pieces for a while before putting them in the trunk. I left work early, and got home a little after 3:30. I got changed and tooled up By 4:00. The car was in the air about 4:15. At a little after 6:30 I was pulling out of the driveway for a quick test blast around the neighborhood.
First impressions: You guys had me scared that it would be too loud. It's a little louder than the Borla in my '85 T-Bird Turbo Coupe (that doesn't really count though, cause it was as quiet as stock due to the turbo). It's much quieter than my '93 Probe GT w/Borla system, and is even quieter than the '89 SHO w/Borla system my 3rd ex stole from me at divorce time. The sound and sound level is very tasteful and very definitely Borla. This willbe a very easy system to live with.
So......I'm a happy camper, and can easily predict that I will stay that way for the long term.
Joe N."
Stan, and other V6 manual owners, after a few more days of evaluation, I can definitely say that this is the system you want! Barely noticeable at normal driving, great sounding when you tach it up. Best of all is the LLSOC pricing, & it'll easily pay for itself in MPG savings if you keep the car for 100K+ miles.
On the other hand, if the LS is still being put forward as a legitimate competitor with the BMW (a thesis I'm becoming less and less willing to believe the Ford Corporation embraces), you need a manual on the big engine. Following a number of these boards, including the 9-car comparison Edmunds recently sponsored, your comments lead me to believe you'd just love the Infiniti I30. It's as bland as the day is long. And you could well be right -- this may (sadly) be where the LS is headed.
Stanny1 and I, along with a few others, dearly hope not, but time will tell. Your words so nearly match what many of the Lincoln sales people say, that the LS may be doomed. Who wants to shift a "luxury" car? People who enjoy driving.
All nine of us -- more or less.
----LS-V6M 2001------------------------LS-V6M 2002
----------Diff Ratio-----------------------Diff Ratio
MPH---3.07---3.31---3.58---------MPH---3.07---3.31---3.58
30----2.8----2.6----2.4----------30----2.7----2.5----2.4
40----3.7----3.5----3.9----------40----3.7----3.5----3.8
50----5.6----5.4----5.2----------50----5.5----5.3----5.1
60----7.3----7.1----6.8----------60----7.1----6.8----6.6
70----9.3----9.7----9.5----------70----9.0----9.4----9.2
80---12.6---12.3---12.0----------80---12.2---11.9---11.6
90---15.8---15.4---15.1----------90---15.2---14.7---14.5
100---19.6---20.1---19.9---------100---18.7---19.2---18.9
110---25.8---25.6---25.1---------110---24.5---24.1---23.6
120---33.5---33.7---31.9---------120---31.3---30.4---29.8
1/4M--15.6---15.5---15.4--------1/4M---15.5---15.3---15.2
-----@90mph @90mph @91mph-------------@91mph @92mph @90mph
top
speed 143mph 143mph 144mph------------145mph 147mph 147mph
Congrats to J.R. I hope his new position enables him to have more power and less politics to deal with and he can set a direction for the LS that will give buyers luxury AND performance. Since his team invented the niche that the LS Manual fills, I hope he can influence it's development into a real competitor to at least the base 5 series, and BMW is already feeling the heat with their new "value-pricing" directive.
While I don't see a V-8 Manual in the future, I can see a VVT V-6 with an overdrive Manual, deeper rear gears with LSD enabling sub 7 second 0-60 times and at a mid 35k price. Nothing competes in that category.
Also, let's welcome Anne Belec to the fold. She's got some big shoes to fill. I hope she has driven a stick shift before and has a chance to drive a 2002 Manual, especially in a slolom environment.
I hope she's the type who would enjoy the Teacup ride at Disneyland or a day at Magic Mountain for the sheer sake of experiencing G-forces. We need a "wild and crazy" VP of Marketing and not a "Town Car" lady. Hey, you got the "younger" demographics (at least the younger psychographics), and now you've got to figure out what to sell us. Hint - it's all on the "shelves" now. Just put it together. Congrats.
You'll have to jump into the 300M, Aurora, LS debate. If I remember right, you were quite passionate a long time ago in a similar Bonneville, Aurora, LS forum.
TSB 01-01-05 missed a couple of the V8 calibrations. Those are now covered by the new TSB.
If you experience delayed engagements into reverse or D5, or have a delay in a downshift at about 20 MPH this software will improve your transmission function. If you don't have those symptoms, and not every car does, you would not see much benefit from this change.
Mark