By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Your comment about the number of diesel powered cars got me to wonder about fuel costs. While diesel might be cheaper in Europe, here in Phoenix, diesel costs the same as premium. From where I sit, I can see no advantage or incentive to purchase a diesel powered vehicle (unless I were to need a tow vehicle for a fifth wheel or travel trailer). What are the Germans and Swiss paying for fuel, and how many fuel types can they choose from?
2. The MT published test of LS6 Sport manual used 3:31:1 final drive. C&D's tests of LS6 Sport manual and base auto used 3:07:1 and 3:58:1 final drive ratios, respectively.
3. Don't think Jag S-type uses manual tranny anywhere. Does anyone know for sure?
Welcome back to the discussion, I've enjoyed your perspective and input in the past and I'm looking forward to your continued input.
While I completely agree that the polar moment of inertia would be a very telling piece of information with regard to the discussion comparing the handling characteristics of the LS6 and LS8, I can't say that I've ever heard of anyone actually citing it before. Further, other than someone with an engineering background (I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering), I'm not sure if anyone would know what the *ell a polar moment of inertia is or what it means! At first glance, one would assume that since the LS8 weighs more, and, as can be noted by the increased front-end bias in weight distribution of the LS8, that the LS6 would have a more favorable polar moment of inertia. But, as you say, depending upon where the additional weight is added relative to the center of gravity, it does not necessarily favor the LS6 and MAY, in fact, favor the LS8!
Overall, I'd say far too much time and effort has been expended on trying to debate handling advantages/disadvantages that the various LS models embody. As consumers, we can only go on data/information provided by through "normal" channels (magazines, sales brochurs, etc.). With the LS, we also can count on Ford/Lincoln folks that participate on this board! A professional driver may add some useful insight to this discussion, but I doubt that "mere mortals" could really distinguish a meaningful handling difference between the LS6 and LS8 sport models.
Concur with lolaj42. LS6 and LS8 Sport models will handle more comparably than non-Sport and vice versa. The .77g C&D test result on their LS6 auto base is indicative of the differences.
Here's a site with some info. There'e a comaprison between current US and Europen standards . Among others, there's a history of Europe's passenger car and light duty vehicle emissions laws since 1970 http://www.mira.co.uk/vept/Powertrain/emissions/E_Regulatory_Emissions_tests.htm
Was just up in Maine and put 1400+ miles on my LS8. Paying as low as $1.429 for 93 octane made putting on the miles a lot easier. I saw 87 octane for as low as $1.249. Us suckers who live in the high income states are sure getting ripped off. Here in CT 93 octane dropped from $1.889 all the way down to $1.799 while I was away.
I agree that there's absolutely no point in trying to get a diesel for use in the U. S., even if you could (guess it's still a Mercedes option), since the fuel costs are nearly identical. What I noticed yesterday was that there were four fuels available at the autobahn service plazas, two grades of gasoline, diesel and benzine. I haven't had a chance to ask what that "benzin" or whatever is all about. Knowling this group, one or more of you already knows. Could be that fuel is cheaper away from the autobahns; I have to go out in the sticks a bit to get to work today, so I'll check it out. It's about a two-hour drive north of Frankfurt to where I'll be the rest of the week. Finally, the actual price was ~2 DM/litre (~$1) in Germany for the gasoline & about 20% less for diesel. Similar percentage difference in Switzerland, but I don't know the exchange rate for the Swiss Franc (or whatever the currency is -- the Euro appears to only be used in the big international hotels, and then along with the local currency), so don't know how it compares to Germany.
On the pollution thing, at least from a smell standpoint, unless I was fueling the vehicle, I can't tell it's a diesel -- noisier though. Some of the older diesels appeared to smoke a bit under low-speed acceleration, but didn't see any of that from the new cars. As was pointed out, catalytic converters are probably the answer.
One comment on polar moment. A few hundred pounds difference in the front of the car is likely to be undetectable to anyone who doesn't race cars for a living (IMHO), but the difference between a mid-engine car and either a front or rear engine car could make a difference. Point being, for sedans, weight on the wheels is going to the stay the key point. How long do you think we'll have to wait for a mid-engine LS? Probably in almost the same league as a V8 stick, sadly, even though one's fanciful/ridiculous and the other's completely within (theoretical) reason.
Thanks again, guys.
1. I'm pretty sure that the length of the transmission and driveshaft is the same for the V6 and V8, (FWIW my shop manual doesn't mention any difference)
2. since the above lengths are the same, (and to enable the use of the same console, shifter, etc.) the only way to get a V8 engine is to add the length of those two extra cylinders (over a V6) to the front of where the V6 block ends.
Given the above, it is obvious that the extra weight of the V8 over the V6 must be farther out from the vehicle CG.
I do agree that the difference is small, and probably not noticeable in the average daily grind. However, when I drove the V6 manual vs the V8 auto at the Lincoln "ride and drive" I attended, the V6 definitely felt a bit more nimble than the V8 on the slalom course. (all the V8's were the sport model)
I really don't lust after a 3:31 or 3:58 without the overdrive tranny to go with it. Otherwise, it's simply self-abuse to suffer 3400 rpm at
75mph. 93 octane is down to $1.95 and I have yet to break 20 mpg. I don't need to make it worse!
2001 VW - Beetle, Jetta, Golf gas = 25 city 31 hwy
2001 VW - Same three cars w/diesel 42 city 49 hwy
In reply to giowa, I would qualify my thoughts regarding the V-6 vs. V-8 handling for a couple of reasons.
First of all, as I said in my previous post, the V-6's that I drove were loaner cars. Therefore I can't vouch for how the tires were inflated, if the front end alignment was "right-on", if the gas tank was full, and all of the other variables that influence a car's ultimate behavior.
Secondly, as we all know, loaner/rental cars tend to get more abuse that "owned" cars. The first loaner that I drove (the one my friend had) still drove fairly well, therefore the LS went on my list as a car to consider. It's seat-of-the-pants acceleration and handling were both impressive to me, knowing that it was a V-6 powered car.
The second LS that I drove was the one that I test drove prior to purchasing it. This was a V-8, and I was more impressed, but I'm sure that it's cleanliness and new car tightness were responsible for this perception or "feel". Secondly, my wife and I took this car for an extended drive before deciding to buy it, so we were able to get a good idea on how the car behaved.
I've had the loaners myself a couple of times since, but it's just for a quick jog back and forth between work and the dealer, not long enough to make a really meaningful comparison.
Nonetheless, IMHO, I'm willing to sacrifice the slight handling balance that the V-6 probably has in order to gain the acceleration advantage that the V-8 has. An 18 wheeler tried to squeeze me behind himself and some slow moving traffic on I-95 south, a couple of weeks ago, down in North Carolina. He must have thought that he was dealing with a "blue hair"...... 70 MPH to 100 MPH happened pretty quickly. Sure surprised that Kenworth !!!
In closing, I don't want to start any wars, but years ago, when I was running an oval track car, we did make weight adjustments as small as 20-30 pounds. Yes, I understand that's a race car, but nonetheless, if you're attuned to it, it's noticeable, everything else being constant.
Happy Motoring !!!
I noticed on the "recommended tire size / pressure" label (located on the rear passenger door stop) that P245/45/17 was listed as an option. Anybody had experience with this size compared to the P235's (in terms of handling, comfort, road noise, etc.)? Thanks.
Here's the complete list of AutoWeek's 10 Best American cars for 2001, followed by their ranking a year earlier, in 2000:
Vehicle Rank in 2000
1. Chevrolet Corvette 1
2. Ford F-150 3
3. Dodge Viper 6
4. Ford Mustang 7
5. Ford Focus 10
6. Lincoln LS 5
7. Cadillac Seville 4
8. Ford Taurus 9
9. Chrysler PT Cruiser 8
10. Chrysler 300M 2
What would have made it easier for you to find it?
$82 is NOT half price. I don't remember tirerack's old price but it was just above $100 and nowhere near $164. But $82 is a great price if you want the Firehawks. I'm going with the new Michelins that they're putting on the T-Bird when it's time to replace mine. After putting Michelins on a couple of SUVs and a pickup I'm a customer for life. I don't mind paying a little extra.
I believe that part of this enthusiasm has been caused by all of us LS owners recognizing early on that Lincoln had a viable alternative to BMW that could stand on its own.
We felt good knowing that you drove an LS with custom springs and modified exhaust. That told us that you clearly understood the potential of the LS.
Please do us a favor and transfer your LS to Anne so that the message that Lincoln can really eat in to BMW market share continues. Once she drives your car, she will know why we all bought an LS.
Good luck in your new postion. Clearly you should now we able to get us more HP and Torgue!!!!
Although my former Lincoln dealer said there was no tread wear warrantee, the tires are waranteed for 60,000 miles. I replaced them with Bridgestone Teranza Revos and got $100 per tire credit toward the Bridgestones. The Teranza Revos are a big step up from the Firestones.
Be sure to get the V speed rating for your tires, the Firestone service center did need to order them for me.
On the Firehawks: I like them, and the only reason I don't buy a set at $82 per and stash them away is that I already did it when they were on sale for $106. FWIW I think you're close on the half-price deal, if you compare them to what they cost last year.
1) Seek button on the radio broke the other day - it still works, but you don't get the noticeable rocking motion, so I fear it's only a matter of time before it completely breaks. I'm hesitant to have it fixed as I've installed the Exoticwood piece on the radio, and I'm afraid it will get ruined by a technician attempting to replace the rocker switch.
2) "Check Advancetrak" warning regularly displayed on the message center. When displayed, the Advancetrak button next to the cupholders doesn't work.
3) A/C unit not working properly - when you press the re-circulate button, you don't get that extra blast of air. I don't think that's normal.
Maybe I'm being too picky, but I never had these types of problems in my previous Accord or Maxima. Any comments or thoughts?
2)This is one reason I held out on the AdvanceTrak option when I purchased my LS. Whenever possible, I tend to stay away from 1st year technology implementation...sort of like my tendency to stay away from Beta versions of software. I've seen a few posts on this board regarding AdvanceTrak error messages/failures, but don't think I've seen a single post about Traction control errors/failures. Hopefully your problem is minor, and will easily be fixed under warranty. Stability control is a great safety feature, though.
3)Ive been in some cars where pressing the recirculate button does noticeably amd audibly increase the airflow, and others where it doesnt. Might not be a problem...I would test it out on another LS on the lot next time you are at the dealer.
Lincoln's response is they will replace the cabin air filter at 15K intervals for free. So what is the purpose of the message center in this vehicle? I guess it's there to annoy you and remind you to buy a BMW next time.
I think the LS is a decent car. I am not sure that Lincoln is a decent company, forcing customers to pay $1200 for complimentary maintenance and then annoying them with $47 nickel and dime crap.
All LS' don't have the message center. (V6 w/o convenience pkg e.g.) All LS' aren't covered by complimentary service (my 2000 isn't). The complimentary service doesn't apply after the warranty period.
Sounds like the only problem was that the dealer didn't tell you there was a charge. I don't see where Lincoln is at fault if their complimentary maintenance documents say it's changed at 15K.
"Electronic Message Center (standard on V8 model)"
"Convenience Package, Standard with V8, optional with V6 [MY '00 says "optional with V6 manual and automatic"]: Electrochromatic interior rearview Mirror [MY '01 adds "with compass], HomeLink programmable garage door opener, Moisture-sensitive windshield wipers, Memory driver's seat, steering wheel and exterior mirrors [MY '00 says "8-way power driver seat with 2-driver memory recall], Power driver and front passenger lumbar adjustment".
Text of brochure says "Standard on V8 models, the Electronic Message Center allows the driver a quick, convenient way to obtain information on vital engine systems, maintenance requirements and fuel availability [MY '01 adds: "--helping to create the best driving experience possible."
The initial detailed MY 2000 sales brochure (silver and black cover with pull-out technical spec section) clearly shows "Message Center--Electronic" is available only with "LS V8 Automatic". There is a dot for this vehicle and no dot for the "LS V6 Manual" or "LS V6 Automatic".
I oughtta know, I factory ordered my V6 manual with the convenience package and it does not have the msg ctr. A serious omission IMHO.
Jim Rogers has been bumped up to Premier Auto Group HMF or some such. He's being replaced by a woman who's not had any previous experience with Lincoln/Mercury AFAIK.
Basically the message center and the two additional cylinders cost $2,628 more at invoice, $2,925 more at MSRP, in 2000. This is after adding in the cost of the convenience group to the V6, which is standard on the V8.
Topic: July 24th: "What is the stupidest thing you've seen someone do while driving?"
My apologies once again.
Airwolf1000