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Comments
I logged a little over 1900 miles in the LS between July 5th and July 12th. The fuel mileage again this year was excellent, a tick over 27 MPG was the calculated average. The majority of the mileage was on the Interstates, but a couple hundred of those miles were "city" driving while in Myrtle Beach.
I still don't understand some of the disparity in the price of gas, as I paid anywhere from $1.45 to $1.79 per gallon for Texaco super premium. Yes, I know that's cheap compared to many other areas, and I'm not complaining. My point is that I'm purchasing the same product, just in different areas. I don't think that taxes alone make up all of the difference.
Anyway, back to the LS. During the trip, I got 3 or 4 of the "mystery beeps", but there was no indication on the message center whatsoever. Oh, well... A bit of a problem has shown up, however. If I hit a sharp bump, I hear a "thump" from the suspension, but only on the right side of the car. It appears something has loosened, and I'll look things over when I rotate the tires. Other than that, the car again performed very well on the trip.
I did, however, have a re-occurence of the "buzzing" from the subwoofer amplifier. This has randomly happened a couple of times before, and based on the postings here, I added an additional ground strap to the amp. The noise went away for 5-6 weeks, but then started up again as I was leaving the driveway to start my trip.
Needless to say, I wasn't thrilled with the idea of listening to the noise for several hundred miles, and posponing the trip wasn't an option. I turned the radio off and on a few times while driving down the road, but this didn't help. A few miles down the road, I pulled off to the side, turned off the radio and then turned off and restarted the car. Still no good, as the amp was still buzzing up a storm. In desperation, a few more miles down the road, I pulled off again, opened the trunk. I checked the wiring harness to make sure that I didn't disturb it somehow while loading the luggage. No such luck. I gave the amp a couple of "love taps", somewhat out of frustration. The noise immediately went away. I'm assuming that there's a loose circuit board, or other component that rears it's ugly head once in a while. Hopefully, I can get the dealer to duplicate the noise, and find the defective part.
Otherwise, the LS again provided a comfortable and enjoyable trip, just as it did last year. One side note....I tried the Zaino polish on the car, just before we left on the trip. It's a lot of labor, but I do admit that the car does look good.
Is a luxury car with a 6 cylinder stick going to thrive in an aging baby-boomer world?...marginally.. but (IMHO) it won't generate the volume Ford needs to keep the line going. A lot of dealers know this and go out of their way NOT to lease you a 6 cyl. stick. Why? Because they have very little resale to "50 something boomers".
BMW thinks it's going to make you young again if you just slip your foot onto that cool clutch... forget about your gray hair and shift like you were 24 again! ..who's kidding who? If you believe that marketing hype than by all means go buy it! But I think calmer and wiser heads prevail when the "50 something crowd" goes shopping for luxury and performance at a price they can afford. In that respect the LS V8 sports package is perfect. Name another luxury V8 you can get on the market today that has a sports car feel without a ferrari price tag?
When all is said and done, Ford looks at the bottom line and makes decisions based on evidence and I don't see a lot of boomers racing down to stick their foot on a clutch and calling it "luxury"
Part of the problem also lies within the perceptions of Lincoln..yeah, "gray hair and old creaky bones needing a pillow ride to drive them off into the sunset" is what Lincoln has to fight it's way out of and the LS is clearly the answer.
Bill
Totally happy with my '01 V6M LS
Sounds to me like *you* bought the BS marketing line being spouted by those fools at the dealership where you got your slushbox. You've regurgitated what they told me practically verbatim. Yeah, the dealer (***McHugh Lincoln Mercury in Los Gatos California ***) who would happily sell me an automatic LS, but would not order a V6 manual. Dealers who think like that (and buyers who think like you) are the main reasons that Lincoln has the image it's trying to shed. An automatic-ONLY LS will signal a retreat on Lincoln's part from the assault they've launched on the performance standard bearers. If they do that, they might as well bring back the Versailles cause the party will be over. I'm not saying the V8-auto LS isn't a great sports sedan. We all know it is. I'm saying that dropping the stick, if it happens, will signal that Lincoln is giving up shedding it's stodgy image and therefore may as well refocus on it's historical customers - the {blue and grey hair} set. By the way, Bill, what color is your hair?
George
To me simplicity is a good thing. Some call it elegance. Some call elegant things luxurious.
Others don't.
I just found this forum. This is great... so many of my questions about my LS have been answered.
I have noticed a lot of people mention transmission problems. My three biggest complaints are delay in going from park/drive to reverse, sloppy 2nd to 3rd gear shift under full acceleration, and inconsistent performance when accelerating from 30MPH range... sometimes fast... sometimes not. My car was bought in August 2000. Is there a software fix for these problems? If so, any thing out there I can reference when taking into dealer?
I also have a strange problem with power staying on after I remove key. Sometimes my stereo stays on unless I re-insert key, turn on, and then remove again. It happens very inconsistantly and dealer has been unable to duplicate. It seems to correspond with opening the drivers door about the same time I turn off the car. Weird?!?! Any ideas here... Anyone else see this one?
Other than this stuff, I love my LS. I have gotten it up to 130 or so with no problem. Very stable and safe feeling... I guess as safe as someone can feel doing a buck 30. 8<)
Any word on a manual tranny for V-8? That would really round out Lincoln's play in the luxury sport sedan realm.
Later!
As for heyjewel he and I have had this discussion before. When you get a bad taste in your mouth with a dealer, all of a sudden they are the devil incarnate. I could rag on about his dealer but I won't(they're no saints either).
Both you guys should pray that enough 6 cylinders get sold for Ford to keep them going otherwise what I said will happen...it's just business, NOTHING PERSONAL!
Heyjewel: Brown hair with flecks of gray. Also...I probably have driven a stick over Hwy17 a few more years than yourself from Santa Cruz to Campbell (25 years) and believe me, I will take an automatic anyday. Going way over the speed limit is not my idea of fun. I don't care what your driving! You endanger yourself and everyone else around you. Control is real easy to achieve...its called slowing down.
This new software has fixes for all three transmission problems that you mentioned.
Mark
can anyone offer advice on the following issues:
1. with SST, how can I get to 1st gear, prior to, or without a 60% acceleration? I would like 1st gear from the get-go off the line.
2. how can I disable interior lights upon exiting the vehicle? This is an option I would like on demand, not always. Almost all ford products have this ability on the bottom of the dimmer dial, but not LS.
3. I, too, have the INTERMITTENT SPEAKER BUZZ on my audiophile subwoofer (2000 LS8) Dealer has reconnected the GROUND on the subwoofer side and I have been back twice. They say the wire has become loosened under vibration. I may be resorting to my own ground straight to the frame. Anyone else dealt with a solution?
THANKS FOR THE UPDATE ON TSB 01-14-05...IM GOING TOMORROW!
Have you broken the code regarding the relative maintenance time/$/issues between automatic and manual transmissions? If you have, I'm more than willing to learn.
In the bargain, the LS has what appears to me to be one of the better manuals in the world. Oh, it's the one used on the BMW. Perhaps imitation is. . . Or, from where you appear to sit, perhaps they have an even bigger issue with those things you feel are unworthy.
Hyperventilating into a brown paper bag now.
Heyjewel: I not trying to trash your dealer here... I'm simply stating my case about 6 cylinders and why you got treated the way you did at Mchugh LM.
My opinion is that Lincoln has more or less painted themselves into a corner on the 6 cyl. If they move to a V8 manual that will directly siphen off of the Jag allure with the price difference being the deciding factor. I would still like to see Ford make a V8 manual but 6 cylinders and Lincolns to me don't sound like long lasting relationship... I hope Lincoln takes the risks and reaps the rewards with the intro of of a V8 manual..that to me would be the best shot at atracting new younger buyers while still keeping the 50 something crowd in the ranks. Some of us don't like to brag about how fast we can go..just that the car handles better than anything on the road for the price. Sorry if I offended anyones lifestyles...
Not many in this forum want to take on V6 LS Manual owners to discuss the issues, but I don't mind...take your best shots guys! thats what discussions are for.
Bill
I think we can lay much of the blame for the lack of manuals in USA on two factors. First, drivers' ed programs that only teach kids to drive automatics. Once you've done that, zillions of kids never learn to drive manuals. Second, too many wives (mine included) can't or won't drive a stick. (Mine can't. I've tried. Her dad has tried. Boyfriends from way in past tried.) Therefore, we should resolve to teach our kids and future spouses to drive sticks! Once they can, many will. More than now. And maybe, just maybe, demand would rise in USA. (Or guess we can pray for $5 per gallon Euro-gas prices? Nothin' like that to drive up demand for manuals!)
2)Locking the car turns them off (sorry, you probably already thought of that).
I haven't looked at everything yet, but I did notice some interesting things. For example, Sport is now a separate model rather than an option package. The MSRP for the '02 V8 Sport is $37,875 plus $610 destination. The Audiophile stereo is a no-cost addition to the Sport. The All-Weather package, which includes AdvanceTrac and heated seats, is $735, which means you get AdvanceTrac for last year's price with heated seats thrown in for free.
It also appears that, with a special "early order" code, the new digital phone system (VCS) is ALSO a no-cost option. Its list price is $1295, but the price list shows it discounted to $0!
This sounds like great news for '02 buyers, but leaves me in a bit of a funk. My '01 V8 Sport (with moonroof, AdvanceTrac, and tricoat paint), which I ordered in June 2000, listed for $40,385. With the same equipment, the '02 would list for $40,600 BUT would include the Audiophile stereo, heated seats, and the VCS phone system. GAAAAH--hindsight is 20/20, but now I wish to heck I would've waited...
I have on 2 occasions experienced the "radio-stays-on-when-the-door-is-open" phenomenon, but I probably won't address it unless/until it starts happening more frequently. My car also tends to retain A/C condensation; it aspirates water on my steeply-sloped driveway when I pull out of the garage. (There's an excerpt from a service letter on the LLSOC board that seems to indicate that there's a fix for this that involves a new heat shield; however, according to the letter, installing the new shield requires removing the exhaust system AND the transmission. ACK! I don't think I'm interested.)
What bums me out is the fact that the Audiophile stereo and the factory phone are two options that I really, really wanted. Lincoln wouldn't sell them to me last year, and now they're GIVING them away, and the phone system is digital and much-improved over the old RESCU package. Sheesh.
Nobody held a gun to my head, and I still REALLY like my car. It's a bit irritating, though...
Note to George: Thanks for correcting my error on the '01 manual console. Jeez; I should've known/remembered that--I think you even told me about it a while back. Must be an age thing.
My '01 Sport, built last August, has a 16" spare wheel with a Continental tire--sounds like what you have. Later in the '01 model year, I think they went back to the 17" space-saver.
According to the latest product info sheet, the '02 Sport model will still have the 17" mini-spare.
I agree that it's goofy to have a 16" spare when the car has 17" wheels and tires, but their circumferences are very close due to the different profiles. If I ever have a flat, I plan to go straight to the tire store and get the spare off the ground as soon as possible.
An interesting side note: That black-painted spare wheel that we have in the trunk is actually from an S-type Jaguar.
What I do know is that the 3.9L has a very unique rear face of block bolt pattern. A new bellhousing would need to be made to mate a manual trans to this engine.
Mark
The current Getrag can handle the additional 10 hp without any problems. It's torque that kills the transmissions and there is still room in the tranny specs for an increase without hand-grenading the thing all over the place.
Brian
The link below points to a "Rate your service" thread.
I conclude that the positive and negative extremes are pretty much what we see at Lincoln dealers, with possibly a bit better average at Lexus.
I believe that both Lexus & Lincoln want excellent service at ALL their dealers, but the existing relationship between manufacturers and dealers prevents it from happening.
http://www.clublexus.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14459&perpage=15&pagenumber=3
Here's one of the posts; there are others just about as nasty.
"Bay Ridge Lexus
Brooklyn, New York
NO Star
Service/Parts - NO!!
Technican - They ALL suck!!!
Comment - If you want to get ripped off and get horrible service, then this is the place to be. I've complained to Lexus in multiple letters and phone calls. No idea what is going on. Makes you wait and wait. Such an attitude. The price is insane. Also they f*ck up your car and do NOT admit that they did. Not only my car but other people's as well.
Pricing - Don't even bother, you'll get ripped off."
The Getrag 292 is the current Getrag six-speed with a torque capacity of 350 NM. I know this would work with even a modified V-8 as it is used in the M5 and 540i six-speed.
Mark, what's NM to ft.lb.?
Therefore, Getrag 221 rating would be 181 lb-ft.
Getrag 292 would be 258 lb-ft.
This site has an excellent, free, conversion program that I keep on my task bar for situations like this.
http://www.joshmadison.com/software/
Airwolf1000
I used to design aircraft gearboxes for a living, and when it came time to size the gears and bearings, the maximum torque conditions were of primary interest. Starting an aircraft engine involves air turbine starters which can generate huge amounts of torque at quite low speeds. This results in very wide (heavy) gears which are of no use most of the time -- the airplane spends very little time starting, relative to backdriving the gearbox for hydraulic & electric power.
Point being, the amount of time any of our V6's spend at 205 lb/ft is miniscule relative to the amount of time we spend cruising along at 65 mph (or 95, if we're lucky). Even under hard acceleration, max torque is rarely reached, and even if it is, you're only there for a few seconds. And, knowing the Germans as I think I do (I am one), the design is likely "conservative," which is to say. . .when did the last transmission fail due to excessive torque? Or for any other reason?
Tom
. . . now keeping my fingers crossed!
I suspect that their rating is for maximum continuous torque. They probably have another rating for peak torque ... as in rev to 3500 RPM then dump the clutch. In this case, the inertial torque would be WAY above the continuous transmission rating, as well as the rated torque output of the engine.
I took my car into the dealer I bought the car from, East-West Licoln Mercury, for the 15k service as well as the replacemement seat cover for the one they ripped and a replacement Lumbar switch.
I also complained about the 2-3 gear shift problem and also the irregular acceration around 30 mph. I mention the TSB to the service advisor.
Well after three days at the dealer and no word as to what was going on I called.
Oh sure your car is ready come get it any time. Gee a phone call would have been nice.
Anyway I show up to pick it up and WWWHHHOOO get a $232 bill for an oil change and filter. Yes they replaced the air cabin filter too. must be very expensive.
As I was trying to come to grips with this I noticed on the report that they did nothing about the transmission problem. Comment was "no problem found"
While deciding what to do I realized I just wanted to get the F&*^ outta there and left.
I will take the car to a local dealer and hope I find someone who appreciates a long term customer.
Kevin
2000LS V8 loaded. cordovan.
PS I know... why did I go back to them in the first place...stupid I quess...
My problem is the power stays on AFTER the key is removed and door opened. Sorry for misunderstanding.... I may not have been clear in original post.
It is an intermittent problem... I may have found a correlation to it happening when I open the door and remove key at same time. It is difficult to duplicate, but a real annoyance. I'm afraid of battery draining down.
Anyone else see this problem or aware of a fix?
Thanks!
Your response to my post:
Samnap: I am guessing you might not be aware you stereo is SUPPOSED to stay on for you when you turn off the key... its simply a convenience for you until you open the door.
Thanks so much for the information (and the friendship) we have had over the past few years. I really appreciate both the information we have been able to gather from this forum, but to me more importantly the friendships we have established both on line and at Mania, etc. My best wishes to all of you. And you can always contact me if you have any issues with your LS; I will do all I can to help.
Best regards,
Jim Rogers (jroger19@ford.com)
Clearly this is a manufacturing glich that Lincoln must fix. I wonder if there is a weld here that is just not being properly ground and finished. Something is wrong. I have not mentioned it to Churchill Lincoln but I will. They have been a fine dealer thus far.
Now look at your LS and see if you also notice these waves. I assume most who look will find this same finish glich.
Just turned 36,000 miles on my 2000 V6 Sport the other day, and for the most part, I have nothing but praise for this car. Still tight, runs strong, auto transmission is working well, stock Firestones work good for me (33-34psi at all times), so good I ordered a second set to put on when these wear out, brakes are nice and firm and swapping the fronts to the non-sport LS compound is possibly the best "upgrade" done, since it reduced the dust about 90%(I'll get the brakefluid flushed sometime this fall), suspension still feels very good, i love the anti-dive/anti squat geometry. Yes, I do tend to drive the car in a "performance" manner at times, when traffic permits, as indicated by my front brake pads wearing out in 30,000 miles or so...;-). Interior materials seem to be holding up well, although I think..think..i may have heard a rattle or two recently when the stero was turned down...which brings me to, the stock Audiophile stereo system, it still sounds perfect to me, enough so that I dont plan to touch it anytime soon with mods.
If I had to do the purchase process over again, I have to say, after test driving the V8 Sport twice, I'd still go with the V6. In my opinion, the Duratec V6 is more efficient, allows the car a closer 50/50 balance, which is more important to me than 0-60 times. I possibly would give more consideration to the V6 Manual, but all factors considered, I would say I'd still go with the Auto/SST combo again.
I plan to keep this car for at least the next 2 years, until its paid off. At that point, I'll either opt for a used BMW 330Ci coupe, or another V6 LS, if it gets more power, and is still the value like it is.
In my 25,000 mile experience with both LS's the only two noticeable differences are better pulling power at the higher end with the V8 (no big deal IMHO), and much better fuel economy with the V6 (3 to 4 MPG), which is a big deal when I'm paying for the fuel myself. BOW our other family owned car is a Porsche so I do have an affinity for performance driving.
I've suspected that Lincoln influenced a more conservative MPG rating on the V6 to make it look almost the same as the V8. Why? Well they charge well over $2000 more for the V8 even after adjusting for the cost of the convenience package on the V6. Getting a reasonable portion of your V8 investment back when you sell your LS is very problematic.
In any event, with either engine, the LS is one hell of a car. So is the 300M--the poor mans' LS.