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Lincoln LS



  • johnnylincjohnnylinc Posts: 308
    I'd like to echo what Artie said and wish you the best in your new assignment--those Marauder fans don't know how lucky they are. I had a ball at the Irvine gathering (especially at happy hour) due in no small part to your enthusiastic participation.

    Thanks for everything you've done to make my LS the great car that it is; I enjoy every minute behind the wheel. Don't be a stranger!

    John C.
  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Posts: 782
    1. The new Chief Program Engineer for Lincoln LS is every bit a car nut as Dick Cupka.(Dick, Good luck in your new position. Must be a blast to drive a police car around. Thank you for being a friend and putting up with my sometimes silly questions).

    2. You do not need a limited-slip differential to drive the LS fast in an autocross. The weight transfer between rear wheels is not significant enough to have the driving wheel spinning uselessly, especially if you drive smoothly. I tried specifically to break the rear loose at Mania 1 coming out of a 90 degree turn and only with considerable horsing around and flooring could I do it.

    3. The Tremec 6-speed and the Cobra IRS rear end is nowhere smooth enough to muscle into the LS. If you haven't driven with one of these, trust me you would notice the coarseness of either of them. They are fine in the Mustang but have no place in our LS.

    4. The Getrag 6-speed that can handle the torque of the V-8 is relatively new, expensive and production spoken for.
  • giowagiowa Posts: 599
    Who builds General Motor's 6-speed manuals used in the Corvette, Trans Am/Firebird, and Camaro? If Getrag production spoken for and no Ford unit can handle LS8 engine output, then here's an option. Wonder if GM would sell Lincoln a couple thousand units a year? Doubt this unit is too expensive, if GM can use in $25K Camaros. And if it is OK for a $50K Corvette...
  • tom12253tom12253 Posts: 110
    My service manager called me this mourning to set up loaner for when my car is in for service. I was a little suprised when he asked if I could research a problem he is having with 2 LS stereo systems. I guess he asked me because thanks to all who participate here, I have been able to give him info faster then the system gets it to him.

    Here is whats happening with the LS's. They have Alpine Audiophile units with the subwoofers. there is a intermittent buzzing or humming noise in the rear speakers. They ran new grounds to the stereo and the rear amp and this helped for a while but then it came back. One owner thought the buzzing was connected to the use of the rear defroster so the dealer replaced the switch and that didn't help.

    Anybody who has had a similar problem and had it fixed please let me know what was done. I remember a few posts on this topic but can't remember the fix for the problem.

    Thanks Tom....
  • giowagiowa Posts: 599
    Just read the April update to their on-going saga. Overall, seems pretty fair and reflective of many experiences here. They did have the AT TSB done and comment on there being some improvement, but still have AT issues. That's exactly what I've found, too. Have some interesting things to say vis-a-vis BMW. I like what they say about product planners sweating the details in key areas. The LS is a very good car that is nearly great. Wouldn't take much.
  • lolaj42lolaj42 Posts: 420
    I think this latest update was more objective than anything they've written in the past several months. While the overall tone was a favorable endorsement for the LS, it was still critical of the LSs drivetrain refinement. I can't say that I've driven enough miles in a BMW to say I can relate to their view, but considering some of the reports that are posted on this board re. the LSs delayed transmission engagements, 51 mph drone, lack of VVT, etc., Edmunds view sounds pretty fair.

    . . . now wondering what the Lincoln folks have up thier sleeve for the 2003 LS . . .
  • sdouglas2sdouglas2 Posts: 20
    GM trannies in an LS8? You guys are desparate!

    One thing to think about: Lincoln would have to pay GM (or other company) to re-tool part of production so the trans would fit a 3.9 V8. I'm not sure if the GM six speed has a separate bellhousing or not, but at best, a new one will need to be designed. What if the housing is integral to the trans case? Giowa makes some very good points, but to think it would not be too expensive is wrong.

    Not to mention there is no flywheel, clutch or pressure plate designed for the 3.9L: Pay for all of these new parts and figure in time for durability testing, you can see why it's a large money pit for a V8 manual "flagship". Why I would love to see a V8 manual as much as most of you, I doubt you can convice the company the returns are worth the costs. :(

    Same would apply to Getrag, Tremmec, Muncie, etc...
  • acarbonellacarbonell Posts: 5
    I have been an avid reader of this board for 2 years and a proud owner for approx. 1 year and a 1/2 of a V8 sport. The time has come in my life where I'm at a crossroad and I have decided that the only path to take is to sadly sell my little piece of American Luxury.

    You all have been very supportive and very informative as well as entertaining in my brief ownership of this vehicle. I do plan to be back! Thanks to the guys that would personally call or write me back to help solve problems I was having. (Mark & Dick at Lincoln & countless others)
    And thank you to this board for giving us the opportunity to discover other enthusiasts out there.

    Since you all are true enthusiasts of the car, I was hoping someone might know of someone who is looking to purchase a quality used vehicle.

    I hope someone will be able to help me out of my situation. The details and my information are on my profile.
    Again, a sincere thank you.

    Sadly bowing out...
  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Posts: 782
    The Firebird/Camaro/Corvette use the Tremec T-56 aka Borg-Warner.
  • drolds1drolds1 Posts: 247
    From BON- Residuals @24months:
    LS V8

    LS V6 manual trans.

    LS V6 auto trans.
    Intersting that the V6 auto has the highest 24 month residual. LS has highest residual of all LM products.
  • stanny1stanny1 Posts: 962
    Scot - just my point exactly. The V-6 is much closer to the reality of a Getrag six-speed, which is becoming the six-speed tranny of choice by European and Japanese manufacturers.
    There should not be much to do to add the Sixer to the V-6. If the Getrag can handle Toyota Supras and M5s, the V-6 LS is a no-brainer. No durability testing necessary. Use the same clutch, flywheel, throwout bearing, etc. I don't know if there's much as far as bellhousing redesign - does the Getrag Six have the same bolt pattern and mating surface configuration as the 221? The real advantage of the six-speed is the overdrive sixth gear, which would enable a 3:58 rear ratio instead of the cruiser 3:07, while increasing gas mileage, lowering wear and rpm (NVH). It's a win-win. Just add the cost to the car - it's not significant for the benefits. Soon, six-speeds will be the norm, and the LS will be non-competitive not even considering the need or demand for better EPA/CAFE numbers. Six-speeds would cure the MAJOR shortcoming of the LS Manual. Then an LSD pumpkin with 3:58 and VVT would make the car really competitive with the Germans, especially in value. 0-60 times would be in the mid to high 6's. Let's Go!
  • johnnylincjohnnylinc Posts: 308
    I haven't experienced this problem, but Road & Track magazine reported something similar with their long-term test LS. The quote from the May 2001 update is: "There's a lot of ignition noise coming through the rear speakers." They also described it as "annoying speaker buzz". Quoting again from the article: "The technician at our local Lincoln dealer installed a new filter for the amplifier, and as of this writing, it appears to have cured the noise pollution problem."

    Unfortunately, they don't say which dealer was used. R&T's editorial offices are in Newport Beach, CA, 92663. According to the Lincoln dealer locator, the closest dealer is Costa Mesa LM. Here's a link to their website:

    I have no idea whether that's the right one. You might try going to the R&T website at and Emailing them to confirm which dealer was used; they have an Email addy for comments and questions. If you can get that info, your dealer might be able to get a part number and/or instructions from their dealer.

    The only poster that I know of who had this problem was sniemietz, and his dealer added a ground wire, but you said your guy already tried that.

    Sorry for the roundabout path; wish I could give you something more specific.

  • thomas_lthomas_l Posts: 134
    Logic tells me Ford is probably using (virtually) the same automatic in both the 6 & 8 models, yet only offering the manual on the 6. Why the shortcut? Is it just me or is that strategy just a little stinky? My guess is that there are three levels these things filter thru before we consumers see them.

    1. Marketing - can we sell it

    2. Engineering - will it work? how long?

    3. Legal - will we get sued?

    Quite a 1-2-3 punch and the V8 stick got it from the first punch. I don't buy the cost of development excuse - too many other manufacturers have "overcome" this R&D "expense" to offer both auto and manual trans on different engine platforms. Let's see... that would be just about every other make and model in the LS's class.
  • sdouglas2sdouglas2 Posts: 20
    "Quite a 1-2-3 punch and the V8 stick got it from the first punch. I don't buy the cost of development excuse - too many other manufacturers have "overcome" this R&D "expense" to offer both auto and manual trans on different engine platforms. Let's see... that would be just about every other make and model in the LS's class."

    Let's get a list of these cars going; you might just realize that the very same cars you tout as having both auto and manual trans options are also sold in Europe where transmission preference is opposite of North America (i.e. BMW / MB / Audi). If you bring up Toyota (Lexus) bringing a 6 speed to the IS, realize this: Toyota / Lexus is very successful for many reasons, one is that they commonize parts across many vehicle lines. There's no reason to suspect the 6 speed out of the Supra isn't a direct bolt-in. The LS8 doesn't have any previous platform(s) to pull parts from.

    What you really hit on is marketing. Jim Rogers told the list that marketing says it won't sell in large enough numbers. Period. I don't think Lincoln is worried from an engineering standpoint nor from a legal standpoint, just about the risk of losing money.

    For what it's worth, Jim and I are not throwing out excuses to the list, just trying to answer your questions.

    Maybe I'll start a conversion shop out of my garage to give you guys a manual V8! ;)
  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Posts: 793
    Doesn't the new Vette have a rear mounted transaxle?
  • Anyone know how I can get on the mailing list?

  • thomas_lthomas_l Posts: 134
    Don't get mad at me - I am just pointing out something that doesn't add up. My assertion is that Ford can hang the same automatic off both engines but not the manual. OK so maybe the bellhousing is different but it was not a show stopper for the auto. I am not naive enough to say they are identical. But come on - these things are complex but this isn't rocket science. And yeah I'm getting the Nomex on for all the cross posts about how much power/torque the 5 speed can take. Due to liability and reliability, the design probably has to be 2.5X whatever the max duty will be because some bozo (like me :D) will test its limits and break it. I guess the point is that every manufacturer has common platforms and interchangeability is not taken for granted. I think you are mistaken in assuming that the 3.9L is so unique that nothing in other (past) production will mate to it. Yes it is an all new engine. Did Ford suddenly change their engineering standards for this one? For example external vs internal balancing, bellhousing pattern, etc. Probably not that dramatic a change.

    As far as numbers, I think giowa's remark about the Dodge Viper and Prowler answers that question. That would probably make them loss leaders (definitely not mega revenue makers!) - intended to generate spin and sell the lower priced/less equipped models. Think of all the people slobbering over the Viper at the car show and then go buy a Cirrus because the Dodge guy was able to sell them something more practical.

    I would love to see someone do a conversion. I would guess the best chance/less trouble would be to take a V6 manual car and cobble in the V8 engine. Who knows? Yes if you wind the 3.9L up and pop the clutch a few times you might break the factory 5 speed, so don't do that ;-D. It would probably hold up to spirited driving only the owner would have to accept the risk that at some point the (V6) manual will give up with the extra power, or at least it might wear faster.
  • sdouglas2sdouglas2 Posts: 20
    I'm not mad at you, but I couldn't hold my tongue! If I'm not mistaken, most of the LS competitors are German, with the exception of Lexus. German autos must be developed from the start to include manual transmissions if they're planned to sell in Europe. Is there an American LS competitor with a manual transmission?

    I agree about your take on the Viper and Prowler, but the LS8 Manual wouldn't have the Glitz necessary to pull people into the showrooms on Supercar status alone. What would Linclons version of the Cirrus be to sell the people that couldn't get the V8 manual? V6 manual? I don't think it would work - there's much more car between a Viper and a Stratus ; ). Also, the viper isn't sold in "lesser" configurations, like a V8 version.
    I just don't think an LS8 manual would draw that many more customers into the showroom. It would draw just about everybody on this board in!

    And just for grins, if I did do a V8 LS manual conversion, I would pull the 3.9 and trans (to sell to a V6 owner that wanted to try hooking it to his 5 speed) and drop in a Cobra engine and trans. Hey, if I'm gonna dream, I'm gonna go big!
  • thomas_lthomas_l Posts: 134
    Why not just transplant that supercharged F-150 power train. Was it a focus group brainstorm that made some executive think YES! let's put the MOST POWERFUL, AWESOME, almost 400HP setup in a PICKUP!

  • stanny1stanny1 Posts: 962
    If one goes to the Getrag website, the 221 five speed has a notation as to its torque limit - but it is in metric. But there is a possibility that the V-8 has too much torque for the little 221. Maybe the auto makers always put the smallest engine with the manual? The 540i6 is an exception. Look at the MB240 with the Getrag 6 speed. The smallest V-6 with much less hp than the Duratech. I don't think the MB 6 will be that popular either. Scot is hitting on something with the European thing. Manuals in Europe are perceived as gas savers. Maybe if our gas went to $5.00 a gallon, "American Luxury" might be redefined as having a rower also. Of course with the LS Manual's present gearing, I don't think there would be any economy advantage over an automatic. I can't seem to break 20mpg in mine. And since the LS isn't going to Europe after all, there won't be any pressure to change things for the export market. Let's face it -American drivers are spoiled or low on testosterone.
  • joe166joe166 Posts: 401
    Well, it is easy to make fun of the pickups, but remember that they must be doing something right as the F-150 is the number one selling motor vehicle in north America and has been for some time. Not to mention that the profit from each sale of a pickup truck is much higher than any passenger car that FOMOCO sells. I would think that whatever their strategy is, it is working. Besides, if you don't see that the powertrain in a pickup truck can afford to be MUCH more primitive than that in an LS, then I can't explain it to you.
  • drolds1drolds1 Posts: 247
    GM trannies in an LS8? You guys are desparate

    You might not have been born yet, but the '65 full-size (and I do mean FULL-SIZE)GM cars were all new designs. In those days even some base model full-size cars had 3-speed manuals as the standard trans. GM was going to put a new 3-speed synchromesh manual in those cars, but it wasn't ready for the start of the model year. SO-they purchased 3-speed manuals from FORD. That's right, some '65 Pontiac Catalinas were sold with Ford 3-speed manuals. So hey, why not return the favor some 36 years later? Just joking. Thought you might enjoy this little bit of throw-away trivia. But really, nothing new. The old AMC used lots of parts from the "Big Three."
  • gkarggkarg Posts: 230
    Thanks for the information you've given us in the past in regard to TSB 01-01-05. I finally was able to have it installed, and do notice a subtle difference/advantage... especially after start-up. Cold engine/tranny shifts and the 3rd gear double shifts are much more refined...THANKS!!

  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Posts: 782
    I've gotten tired of waiting for Magnaflow to get down to business so I've approached Borla. They are sending a V-8 kit to me for evaluation. I have also talked them into doing a V-6 kit that they are starting to work on.

    If after testing I think the quality and the performance is what the members would want, the club will sell the kits to the members at a substantial savings off of the retail price of $899. Can't tell you the price just yet but you won't be able to get the kit anywhere else at this price.

    And you guys were wondering what goodies you were getting for your membership bucks :)

  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Posts: 782
    I have managed to con a couple of Ford Master Technicians into volunteering to be the moderators of a new LLSOC Members-Only message board topic that will be called the Ford Master Technician Forum. If the attitude and willingness to listen to learn that these two gentlemen share is what the new generation of service technicians is about, we have a bright future ahead of us.

    Since we have the engineers viewpoint I thought it made sense to have the technicians viewpoint also. The Masters will also be able to help us understand the dealer service role better which should help us in dealing with our dealers. Any questions related to service issues can be brought up in this topic. Please remember to be civil no matter what your frustration level might be at the time :)

    Look for it to be set up and active some time next week at under Message Boards

  • tom12253tom12253 Posts: 110
    Thanks for your quick response to my Question. I will give the info you provided to my dealer tomorrow when I pick up my car. I'll let him call the dealer and check out your lead.

    Thanks again,

  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Posts: 793
    Brian, what do you mean tired of waiting? Is mid May now mid June :(? My car is waaaaaay too quiet!
  • leadfoot4leadfoot4 Posts: 593
    Just for the sake of throwing in my $.02 worth... Is it a question of R&D expense that's preventing the LS V-8's from getting the manual tranny, or is it the ridiculous cost of getting the EPA certification for a "new model" the real culprit ??
  • drolds1drolds1 Posts: 247
    Brian- how do you do it? This sounds like it's going to be a great forum. Thanks.

  • sdouglas2sdouglas2 Posts: 20
    Arthur, whattaya mean old cars had manuals? 8D My very first car was a '66 Fairlane, 289 with a "3 on the tree". What a car! (At least in my memory :)

    To Lon: I've never heard mention before of EPA cert being expensive, other than having to dedicate a vehicle to be used for certification. The vehicle has to have 4K mile mileage accumulation to represent a "broken-in" powertrain.

    Also, just to verify transmission concerns, I looked at a Getrag and a V8 5R55N side by side last night; bolt patterns are really different, plus the V8 bellhousing looks about 25% bigger...
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