Chrysler 300M

sirharper

OK, since the DCX merger we haven't had a whole lot of innovation YET (its coming I know)! How hard would it actually be for the Germans to finally show a little support and toss the 300 series an AMG powertrain complete with 6-speed manual? Am I the only one that has thought of this?

giowa

Just took a quick peek here. Interesting to see so many of you disappointed in the tranny, gas mileage, and performance. But at least you haven't had cause to complain about its inferior crash protection.

fuzzywuzzy (#5939): Get yourself the LS8 Sport or LS6 Sport Manual. You'd love it.

tnsc_300m (#5955): You definitely need that LS8 Sport with 5-speed sequential shift automatic. The N-S shift action is more natural than counter-intuitive E-W DC unit. And the more aggressive final drive ratio.

Of course, I do realize the LS isn't perfect. Just like 300M, Lincoln needs to do a lot to keep her current. Heck, Nissan is readying the 260 hp Maxima with 6-speed manual this fall. Has the VVT LS engines need. Boy, what would a VVT 3.9L LS8 Sport w/6-speed manual and 3.58 rear end do?

sirharper

I guess you must have missed all the problems listed on the LS section. Let's recap: failing to start, flooding, battery, electrical, window issues, TIRE ISSUES (Firestone), even one guy calling his LS a lemon! Who the hell are you fooling? It sure doesn't take a scientist (or a Lincoln salesman) to figure out which car has more issues!

sdmike2

Anyone know what the ratio is on the enhanced prowler gear set that we've seen links to? Just curious.

300mlover

actually these tips are 15" long and have a
2 1/2" inlet and dual 3" outlets. That's all the factory opening can fit comfortably and I don't want to widen the factory opening.

aj_tomasi

The Prowler Gears are like 3:82 stock just like the 300m special concept car, and the Prowler Pro Gears are some thing like 4:10 or more. I know that the final gear is 27% higher than a stock prowler and a stock 300 is about 3:62

sdmike2

Just found a site that lists the LHS cars at a 3.66 (with the 3.5 engine) drive axle gear ratio...the same as the prowler (??)

http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_help/html/chrysler/chrysler_drive_axles.htm#LHS

sdmike2

On this internal chrysler page. Looks like something for the media, but it details the target demographics and lots of info on the M and their market.

http://www.media.chrysler.com/wwwprkt/2672.htm

Here is a table from that guide (I have no idea why it's spacing this way. The HTML table appears to be clean):

Gear Ratios
1st	2.84
2nd	1.57
3rd	1.00
4th	0.69
Final Drive	3.66
Overall Top Gear	2.52

tnsc_300m

says a lot about why we buy what we bought. NOT a Lincoln...
IMHO

tnsc_300M

drpixel

uh, it was a (very) feeble attempt at some humor....it happens to me occasionally when I stare at the twin 21 inch monitors I have in front of me....sometimes..when the light is just right, I see DEAD PEOPLE......doh....gakk.......arrrrrgh.

(my apologies...
Doc

fuzzywuzzy

I'm swapping gears in my Explorer to lower gears next weekend. I want more off the line go. I have 3.27's, & I'm going to 3.73's. I was warned though, & it will apply to the M as well. If you switch gears, your speedo, & milage will be off by alot! On the Explorer, it's only a manual gear tooth change to fix it, but the M is electronic. So far only the DRB thing can change it, & only dealers have them, & a dealer will not do it(at least in my area)

mykem

chat night.

nuff said?

10E/9C/8M/7P

I'll probably open early.. with the laptop I can chat and tele at the same time!

-m

giowa

Don't think I've said anything bad about 300M reliability nor have I claimed the '00 LS are outstanding in this regard. My '00 LS has not been as reliable as my previous two Infiniti. But my LS problems have been more annoying than serious. Took 'em umpteen times to fix the heated seats that wouldn't come on. And too many times to fix an airbag warning light that would come on and stay on intermittently. Some water condensation in front headlamps.

I did check out the Consumer Reports Annual Auto issue. 300M reliability not bad overall. Better in '00 than in '99. Just like '01 LS likely will be better than '00 LS. Think they said predicted reliability for LS8 will be slightly better than 300M, but LS6 reliability worse. The Jag V-8 engine more reliable than the Ford Duratec V-6?

I view the LS8 Sport as the poor man's BMW 540i. I'll admit that the 300M is good enough to be the poor man's LS, albeit FWD. If I had $55K, I'd be driving a 540i 6-speed. But my loaded LS8 stickered at $39,400 and I paid about $36,000 for her (12/99).

A good work friend of mine, who is the security manager in a medium security prison, has a '99 300M. He loves it. We talk about our cars. We just haven't gotten around to finding those perfect winding roads in middle of nowhere to take each other's baby out for a spin. But if we do, you'll be the first to know!

And I'm not biased completely against FWD. My '96 Infiniti G20t was an outstanding handler. I'd put her up against almost anything, though not on a race track. She just lacked the ponies to back up her handling abilities.

tnsc_300m

"Great, so you drive a Lincoln LS8.. that don't impress me much!" to paraphase a beautiful songstress from the wonderful country where our cars are made.( those props are for you otto )
LOL
OK,giowa say I buy a LS8 for the N-S shifter. What do I do the rest of the time I'm driving a overpriced, overrated Ford????????
Paying what you paid for what you got is what's counter-intuitive.

see shootout board post# 194

tnsc_300M

jona57

All these posts about coming models and comparo's with existing sedans misses the point of M ownership IMHO- that unique balance of styling, luxury, performance and value. I have long given up on buying the first model year of anything as I hate to be an unpaid "beta-tester". I try to buy a car in its 2nd or 3rd year of production to let others work the bugs out. Cutting-edge equipment is costly and VERY frustrating if it doesn't work right. I have had a 3rd vehicle as a toy in the past, but I'm talking about daily drivers here. I researched and drove almost every sedan close to the M in price and size (mid-to-full size) for close to 5 months before buying my M. Sure a manual tranny/RWD set-up is nice for max performance on good roads, but I do alot of city driving and contend with winter snows. IMHO a FWD/auto set-up is best for me, and the Autostick is nice for max acceleration when I want to play. The 2001 is almost a different car from the early 99's with its 17" PHG, lux wood trim, and quieter ride. Sure it's nice to fantasize about a 6-spd manual Maxima or the 2002 M tuner special, but too many great plans are being canceled by automakers these days for cost-cutting reasons. It's like most products undergoing constant changes, at some point you have to jump into the market and buy something which meets your needs at an acceptable price. At least our M's are not like buying a computer where you KNOW something with better performance will be available cheaper in 6 months!
-Just a little FFT

aj_tomasi

If you buy Prowler Pro Gears or G-Force gears you will also get a speedo correction. The Stock Prowler has the same gear ratio as a Chrysler Concord or Intrepid SE. Before Prowler Pro Gears Chrysler used those gears in the 300m Special concept.

Some Important Notes about Speed
With 300hp and stock gears a 300m can do 0-60 in 7.1 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 15.4

The 300m Special Concept should do 0-60 in 6.5 with 300hp & 3.82 gears and maybe pull the 1/4 mile in under 15 seconds

A 300m with 300hp & Prowler Pro gears WILL do 0-60 in under 6 seconds (5.9) and the 1/4 mile in the low 14's

There's absolutly nothing wrong with our transmissions just that our ratio isn't geared for an engine whose power comes in so late like the way the Concorde & Intrepid SE are geared

So how do you get 300hp? Well most of you are on the right track with the exhuast and throttle body mod, but you need to take the next step and get a shop to grind your cams for added lift and duration. This will net you 25hp & 40 lbs. of torque. Next get your cylinder heads ported to ad another 25hp.

sdmike2

Now you're talking. Any idea what a performance shop might charge for making these mods (ballpark)? Also, will those prowler gears work in the M, since the Prowler is a RWD versus our FWD? Can we use Intrepid gears, or is it a different tranny all together?

sdmike2

Here is a little information from a site that sells the Prowler Pro gears:

"A stock Prowler at 80mph in 4th gear is turning 2400 rpm. With ProwlerPro gears the rpm will be 3100. The shift point from 1st to 2nd goes from a stock 48mph to 37mph, the stock 2nd to 3rd shift of 89mph is reduced to 71mph. This gearset transforms the driving characteristics of the Prowler dramatically!!! The car leaps off the line and accelerates far more quickly through the gears without a significant reduction in gas mileage and no loss of top speed. This is the single most cost effective method of improving your car's performance. Gears are cnc machined and hardened to factory specifications. They will fit without any modification to the cover and require no additional shims or spacers. Price includes electronic speedometer correction kit. Professional installation time is less than three hours but an owner with some mechanical skills can self install."

If it improves performance without loss of top end or MPG, why doesn't chrysler make these stock? What's the tradeoff?

sdmike2

For future reference, this site has links to photos of gear installs.

http://www.prowlerexcitement.com/Cat/ProwlerPro/ProwlerProIntro.htm

beach15

What site did you find this information on? More and more, these gears are beginning to seem like a great mod for someone on this board to get done. I'd love if our M "leaps" off line and accelerates far more quickly. All I'd be worried about is warranty work and the everyday driver reliability. If these can transform an M as much as they do a Prowler, that will be truly amazing. Then the mouthy LS drivers wouldn't know what hit them (or what blew right past them)!!

beach15

Now, where is the link to information on the Prowler supercharger that could fit the 300M?

fuzzywuzzy

I did not know that the Prowler Pro gears included the speedo change as well.

What good is adding power if the 300M's drivetrain cannot get it to the ground.

sdmike2

Here ya go

http://paxtonauto.com/ssi/osb2/itemdetails.cfm?ID=14

aj_tomasi

The ProwlerPro and G- Force gears will work on the 300m becuase the Prowler is based on the LH platform and has the same transmission as the 300m. The only difference is that the Prowlers trasmission is not bolted to the engine, but instead is at the rear of the vehicle. These gears bring you into the powerband sooner that stock gears so increases in speed are faster because you reach peak horse power sooner, thus making your car faster. Don't worry about drivability, that's what traction control is for!

PRICING:

G Force Gears are $1,350

Prowler Pro are $1,450, but only Prowler Pro will install the gears he will not let any other shop do this so you have to drive to Colorado to have them put on.

A Custom Cam Shaft run about $600 and cost about $250 -$300 to install

Cylinder Head Porting costs way more, about $1,500 total. But if you get the Cam and Porting done at the same time you should save some money.

Paxton Supercharger:
Will not work on the 300m because of the FWD. You might be able to work around that but the cost of Over $8,000 in the end for custom work out weighs the benifits of 75HP. Would be easier to buy a $1,500 turbo and have that custom fitted for $3000.

aj_tomasi

Go Here to Find a Mopar Speed Shop near you. These guys would be the ones to see about Cams and Porting

http://www.mopar.com/m_perf_speed.html

ruski

fine gravel on the road... perfect for a four-wheel drift!

everyone - improvements since 1999
compare 300M vs Acura TL. They were introduced around the same time. 300M had better power and features. Since then Acura has not sat on their butt as much as Chrysler - they managed to catch up and surpass 300M in the features AND performance department. Now they have memory seats, standard side bags, 260HP, and they had HID lights since the beginning. Now there are steady rumors about 6-speed manual transmission in the 2002+ TL-S. All that, and Acura is also on the verge of a platform redesign for the TL. For some reason they are still making the current platform better.

ruski

Acura TL was introduced with a 4-speed auto tranny and it only took them 1 year to upgrade to a 5-speed auto, even though they did not have any problems selling the 4-speed. That's being proactive!

phases78

what all i miss going on here from a day at work.

mikeyjohn

Someone was talking about the 2002 Maxima with 6 speed, If you're interested go to www.canadiandriver.com, they have a review on this car to-day. The M is still a better looking car. Just my opinion!!!!

beach15

Acura has already confirmed that the 2002 CL Type-S will have an available 6-speed manual and many have already predicted that it will mean a TL-Type S with one too but it should be introduced a little later. My opinion, very nice, well equipped, exceptionally built, and a bargain with all its features (much like the M) but the only thing holding it back is the boring styling. I actually think the front half doesn't look all that bad but then you look at the back and something just looks wrong. They should fix that next.

timbotimbo

I'm new to the forum & was wondering if any of you sunroof veterans could tell me of any maintenance that should be performed on the tracks, seals, or mechanism. I never had one before so I'm unfamiliar with how to care for it.

Thanks,
Tim

easyrider300m

Its wednesday--chat nite!--so grab a beer , pull up a chair and join us at:

http://www.300mclub.org/chat.htm

phases78

av has

p.s. LOL!

guesswho1

see you all later on edmunds except you 300michael take it easy no pun intended ;-) nice chat session tonight full house...glad to meet my new found buds.

guesswho1

you have neon? tell me all about the neon. i can't wait to light up my m.

avalanche165

it was real easy to install. for sake of mind and safety, i went to sears and a friend lifted up on the jack, then i did all the mounting work, 20 min, and did all electrical work on the ground. no way i'm rolling under a 2 ton car with just floor jacks....

avalanche165

man my tailights look so ugly, i gotta do something. how much do new ones cost?

tucsongil

I have been on this forum for about 18 months. That is six months before ordering my "M".

It is widely believed that DC managers/decission makers read these boards. If they read these boards and hear our discontent with their designers lazyness in updating the "M", their flagship, this is what my post are about!

I love my Y2K "M". It was the best value of a fine sports sedan at my purchaseing time. Now DC has dropped the ball. If Nissan can add an all new H/O engine and 6 speed manuel tranny just two years after the launch of the all Maxima, why can't DC do the same with a three year old "M"? This 300M Special needs a 5 or 6 speed manuel or a all new from the ground up 5 speed auto stick tranny.

DC managers and designers must be the lazyest staff around! These guys are sleeping at the wheel! The dual exhuast we have done to our "M"s should have been thought of and done by the DC designers from the first year!

I guess the only upside to DC's lazyness is that our "M" will not look dated if a refresh happens every five years.

If I am in the car market in the spring, the Maxima 6 speed would be on top of my list and the Special would be second or third. The value tag would now be placed the Maxima.(btw, a new body style(if they do one) Acura TL Type-S 6 speed would be second).

Again, I love my "M"! But DC is falling way off the pace!

sdmike2

When I was shopping the 01 TLs didn't have dual memory seats. That's one thing that bugged me about the car.

sdmike2

I heard that a trained monkey can install them. LOL

sdmike2

Very helpful information. You seem to know a lot about the physics of cars. I appreciate the insight. Two questions for you. First, the Prowler Pro site claims the gears will have no effect on top end speed or gas mileage. Doesn't seem possible as something has to give...right? Second, how much of a performance difference do you think the gears would make on an M with only duals and a K&N as performance mods? My wife can probably tolerate one more mod under $2,000, so I want to make it count.

Mike

avalanche165

jason i received it today, sry forgot your email addy. so i am gonna get this bored out, then get my prowler tb bored out, and see the differences...thanks

300michael

welcome back to the nest.

sdmike2

This is a link to a list of chrysler performance part and service dealers. Looks like there are a few in SoCal that I'll have to call. My question? Can they build me a sub 6 second M. Mwahahaha.

http://www.chryslerpower.com/cppa.html

300michael

As mentioned earler, if the stock engine is running at 2400rpms at 80mph, and the Prowler gears would have the engine run at 3100 rpms at 80 mph then you would not possibly have the same gas mileage. That is a 22.5% differance in rpms. An engine uses more gas at 3000 then at 2400 rpms, so yes there is going to be a mpg penalty. It would be about almost a 8 mpg penalty on the Hiway and a 4.5 penalty for city driving. Yes, you would get up to speed quicker, but your top end would suffer, no more 145mph drives. Each one has to decide what they care about most. I liked the idea of driving to LA from Phoenix on one tank. This would pretty much kill that though.

sdmike2

Here ya go:

http://www.prowler.on.ca/

sdmike2

hell, I'm only getting about 18.5 average. Knocking 5 off that will put me down in 29 foot motor home range. lol

300michael

Replacement tail (99-00)lights run from $156.00 to $135.00 each at the dealers. The 2001s run around $190.00 - $210.00. E-mail me at 300M@uswestmail.net.

300michael

The gears would put me back below my orginal gas mileage, before I did my mods to increase it. It would put me in the 25 hiway and 14 city.
If the gears were less expensive I may consider it. but to pay 1400 dollars for worse gas mileage not for me at this time. The performance though is nice.

sdmike2

maybe the paxton supercharger. LOL. Here's a video of a prowler spanking a 460HP mustang. The prowler has prowler pro gears and a paxton supercharger, but hell they started with the same engine and tranny as our beloved Ms.

http://www.prowlerexcitement.com/Cat/PaxtonVideos/PaxtonVideo8.avi