Jaguar X-Type

sumasar

do i have to be concerned with the price to maintain the vehicle. I am thinking over the nissan maxima and the x-type which would last longer and cheaper to maintain.

rayh3

sumasar, since all your scheduled maintenance is included for the Jaguar during the 1st 4 years/50k miles it should be much less to maintain.

rayh3

We opened our store 3 weeks ago with 3 base model 2.5's (2 auto's 1manual) they all sold in the first 3 days. The lowest price X we have on the lot now is a 2.5 auto with x1 prem/ metallic paint. Sticker is 34900 or so. We have 3 2.5's total and will get no more until the 1st of the year.

fpereira

It's cool to see a store that's so free with information. I remember calling up a dealership years ago and asking about their inventory; that man would *die* before telling me what was on the lot. :-)

My comment about "option challenged" X-types was an attempted friendly jab at Brentwoodvolvo, who as I understand it runs a Jag store; he was claiming nonexistence of demand for nonsunroofed Jags...
:-)

riez

rayh3... What where the MSRPs on your initial base 2.5s? Did they have no options? Few options? Guessing they weren't completely stripped.

faculty

Having recently acquired a 3.0 auto in Westminster Blue/Sand, I feel I am now capable of leaving the sidelines and offering up my two cents(Canadian)to this ongoing conversation.

Design-wise, I can't say enough good things about the sheet metal on this buggy. It's embarrassing, but I can't stop myself from looking back for one last look as I leave the parking lot(the ear to ear grin I'm learning to suppress).

I do have several comments on the interior though and would appreciate some input from others out there. The gauge cluster directly behind the steering wheel is beautiful in its simplicity - almost retro-like and the center console fits nicely into the dash, but the LCD displays on the climate controls and sound systems look out of place. The LED odometer readout is also too dim for all but the sharpest of eyes during daytime driving. I guess the theory of one cup holder being better than none may be considered sound British thinking, but I don't think it will cut the mustard on this side of the pond. Somebody dropped the ball on this one. The layout and design of the door panels are also beautiful!

Power-wise, the three litre engine pulls this somewhat pudgy vehicle along at a breathtaking pace. The engine responds quickly to all throttle requests willingly, except from a dead stop, where the car seems to need a little time to wind out. It may be the combination of the automatic transmission and the all-wheel drive, but acceleration seems a little lame there. The throaty engine and exhaust noise is also very cool.

Speaking of all-wheel drive, I've never driven one before but I can't see this system wanting of anything! The tires will not spin on wet asphalt at full throttle, which leaves me feeling this car is very capable of managing most road conditions. Tight corners on dry pavement give no indication of the four-corner grip package but I'll reserve final judgment until after the snow begins to fly. Cornering at speed is nothing short of exhilarating with little or no body roll(hang on kids)!

I've had a few glitches with my X-Type and am wondering how everyone else has fared. After 2000 kilometers, I have encountered the following minor, but bothersome issues.
1. The fuel gauge would not go pass the half full point(this problem rectified itself although Jaguar said they would replace the tank/gauge assembly - tanks, but no tanks)
2. An intermittent noise(squeak)coming from the rear drivers side.
3. An intermittent wind noise(howl)also from the rear drivers side.(not flatulence)
4. The wiper blades are showing premature signs of wear by leaving streaks already.
5. The trunk has become unlatched after being firmly closed on occasion.

Otherwise, love this car!

scottc8

I thought my Lincoln LS had the same premature wear problem, then I quit using Windex in favor of a dedicated auto glass cleaner, Eagle One 20/20 in my case. Wipers now work like new (30k miles/one yr. old), and the inside of the windshield seems much less prone to fogging on damp days. FWIW.

carnaught

With my Adriatic blue, 3.0. I've only encountered an occasional trunk non-closing problem. The fit and finish are great; the performance and cornering are awesome as is the responsiveness. I also had and S-type in 2000 when they first came out and like the X-type (handling, dash, quality, looks) even more.

rayh3

The 3 base models we had were true base models. The manual was silver so the only option was metallic paint and the 2 automatics had no options and were non metallic colors. The british racing green automatic was my favorite. It was funny, I had 2 people look/test drive it the day it came in and then they went home to "think about it". I do not believe in high pressure tactics, but I did inform them that the car would not be here long. The car sold an hour later, 2 hours later both couples call and want the car One is now on a waiting list.

One of the couples that looked at the car eventually decided on a vehicle I located for them with a few more options. They were a retired couple that had just finished touring the country in their RV and were selling that and wanted to look at their dream car the Jaguar. I discounted the optioned up car and they drove away happy. Mr. customer stated to me that he never thought he could afford a Jaguar and didn't know about the X-type. They had just stopped by to see the new dealership, kick a few tires, and to convince himself he could never afford a Jaguar, he was very happy to say I proved him wrong. Mrs. customer is beginning a battle with possible breast cancer and Mr. customer stated she was so proud driving up to the doctor the next morning in the new car. This is a couple I hope will come in and see me often. They are the reason I wanted to get into this business and help me keep my perspective when I have to deal with the "Janet Jackson contest winner" types of people.

sorry for the rambling post....have a great Sunday everyone.

riez

A huge pet peeve of mine. You pay $30-40,000 for a BMW or Jag and decent paint is optional!?! When I looked at the Lexus ES300 and IS300 last weekend the salesperson made a big point of saying the metallic paints were not optional for a charge. I thought seriously about buying a BMW 323i a while back. But seemed like everything was optional. CD, paint, you name it. By time you had a car optioned like a $20,000 Taurus or Impala, the sticker climbed to well beyond $30,000 for the 323i. Jag X-type appears headed in the same direction. Seems like every year BMW makes something optional from last year standard on the next. Hope Jag does same.

im_brentwood

I dont run a Jag store

I have been a manager before though. I am technically a used car dealer in FL and I sell 40-50 Jags a month.

Jag with no sunroof? Ugh. No way!

I'd think that the hot ticket would be a $33-35K or so X-Type with Auto, CD, Roof..etc..

Just like when the S-Type first came out. We did a lot of Base 3.0s with Power/Memory (Roof), CD and Weather Pkg ($47K or so)

Bill

im_brentwood

Jaguar is running an X-Type this week at the local Jaguar Factory sale...(Held 1-2times a Month at Central Florida Auto Auction).

A White one with 4,200 miles. Since I'm not a Jag dealer I can't buy the sucker..

But I will report on what it has and what it does.

Bill

fpereira

Oh OK, my bad.

akirby

Some paint applications do cost more for the mfr to apply (usually either more expensive paint or more coats). Would you rather have the customer who wants it pay for it or raise the cost of all the other vehicles? TANSTAAFL.

t0s

A couple of comments per your request:

- the trunk latch is a known problem - get it replaced under warranty
- The 3.0 (and the 2.5) does not have enough torque for the weight and AWD grip and hence bogs down when used with the auto. Expect testers to report poor 0-30, 0-60 times for the auto as most tests use brke-torquing. With a manual, you could slip the clutch to prevent bogging down the motor. Once going, the car is downright zippy.

riez

True, TANSTAAFL, but I can lower the unit cost of anything if I produce more of same. And I can save costs by eliminating unpopular colors and using only popular colors.

Looked at BMW 323i a while back. The "free" base colors were flat black, flat white, and flat red. They looked dull and boring. Dealer only had one white one. It was a bare bones car; had BMW plastic (pleather?) seats. Of course, they had a zillion metallic paints that all looked a lot nicer but then they wanted about $600 for them. Why not save money by dropping the 3 bland colors, which only come on the strippo models and then raise the overall price by about $400? At least that seems to be what lots of other manufacturers do (including Lexus). Heck, if your average Ford, Pontiac, or Chyrsler can have better looking metallic paint standard in the under $25,000 range, what does it say for any premium manufacturer to offer decent paint only as an option? Guess same thoughts go for me on CD player. Too many European cars make that necessity an option, too. Go figure.

I don't mind optional super-premium paints that cost more as long as their are a decent selection of nice metallic paints that are standard. But that doesn't mean go with dull, flat paints straight off a mid-1970s VW Thing.

sleepysteve1

in racing green with ivory interior at The Great Britains
dealership in Willow Grove PA. Did not realize they were so rare
(looking for a 3.0 with manual myself)

akirby

I didn't realize that normal metallic paint was what BMW considered optional. Sounds like to me the metallic paint is really standard and the 3 non-metallic colors on stippers were thrown in to lower the base price of the car and to use as lost leaders. Personally, I just look at the total cost and don't worry about what is optional and standard. In this case I would just add $600 to the base price and go from there. It's all relative.

riez

That is what I hate in this market segment. All these cars should come equipped standard with certain things. Like at least a single in-dash CD. More than 4 speakers. Decent paint. And, in most cases, leather. A loss leader implies trying to have one of an undesireable optioned car to trick people in the newspaper ads. BMW prominently advertises the "low" $28,000 323i base MSRP and Jag advertises the $29,995 base X-type. But try to find one. And see if you want one that lacks options in a Ford Focus! The first 323i I looked at was a 2000 MY. Think at that time cruise control was optional. So was CD. And a host of other little things.

When wife and I looked over Lexus IS300 and ES300 the salesperson made a big point of saying something like "Don't be misled by the brochure. It may say cloth seats are standard but we don't order them that way. We won't unless you special order them and put down a deposit and we don't recommend them since they really ruin resale value." If the salesperson is saying that, then why in the world would Lexus not make leather standard? We're talking cars costing in excess of $30,000!!!

sgrd0q

There are people out there who may want to buy a Lexus but would not buy the car with leather seats. It is not unheard of. Pretty much like people who would not wear a leather coat.

Any car, in my opinion, should have very little standard equipment and then people should pay for what they want. For instance I do not want a sunroof (safety concerns resulting from a rollover crash some time ago), and will actually pay to delete the sunroof, but car manufacturers like Acura, will not give you that option - they have the sunroof standard.

Or as another example I may want to have a fast sports car, but I may not care about the color, or the electric seats, or the cruise control, or even the air-conditioning! I should be able to get what I want, not what most other people prefer.

blueguydotcom

Well you've running up against bean counters. The marketing folks meet up with the accountants and they do their focuse groups and cost analysis studies. The end result, Acura believes the majority of buyers will want all the goodies for a set price, it's easier to market and the costs of making all the cars the same is FAR lower than offering the cars with a million options. Also the room for error in construction is lower if every product comes the same way.

From a business and marketing view, offering a car with few choices can be the secret to success. Look at the huge sales of the TL. Must be people out there who see value in Honda's cost-cutting.

rea98d

TANSAAFL (or whatever it was) mean?

dhanley

Should be tanstaafl

there ain't no such thing as a free lunch

first i know of it is heinlein's "the moon is a harsh mistress"

dave

pat

Yeh, I was wondering that too, thanks!

Is your Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" the same one Judy Collins sings? I don't get the lunch connection, but I sure love her version of that song.

:-)

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

riez

1. Think the phrase has been around a long time, but would be interesting to find out first published instance. Economists and public policy experts have been using it for years.

2. That is one of Heinlein's most accessible books. Have read it three or four times. Memorable characters and great plot. Great book for a 16 or 60 year old.

rea98d

Thanks for the translation.

marsha7

was Stranger in a Strange Land...he is also credited with the ancient proverb An Armed Society is a Polite Society, obviously believing in the 2nd Amendment...hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

robnis

This was my first experience in any Jag. I was impressed with the performance of the roughly 3,500 hundred pound vehicle. The handling, suspension, egonomics, fit and finish were what I expected. The first year "bug" was evident in the dash rattle. A 40K car should also have a 6 disk in dash cd. Even the 28K Acura TL has that! Since I am looking for an all wheel drive vehicle, this car stacks up rather nicely against the A4 that I looked at. I wish I could trust that Jag will have the quality one expects of such a nameplate and the spectre of "never buy a car the first production year" looms it head.
Bottom line.....I would like one, it looks an d drives great but can I trust it? Opinions?

scottc8

Speaking out of school a little here, as I am not a Jag owner but, from what I've read, Ford's aquisition of Jaguar did wonders for their quality. I don't think the year one bug is nearly the issue it used to be. Cars, and their designs, are so exhaustively tested nowadays, both by computer simulations and in the real world, there just aren't many chances for surprises when they go into production. My ride is an '00 Lincoln LS V8 and it has been flawless for nearly 32k miles. The LS has had a few first year bugs but minor stuff, rear window regulators being the biggest deal. My evidence is not strictly anecdotal, either. Most of us with the '00 model have had little or no trouble. The Jaguar S-type (mechanical cousin to the LS) came out at the same time and has been at least as reliable, if not better.

If I were considering two cars that were 100% equal in my judgement, and one was in it's first year, that might make up my mind. But I wouldn't walk away from a car I really liked because of it. Just my $.02.

carnaught

I generally agree with you about buying the first production year of a car. I must say that with at least first month of ownership of this car, it is quite good. Nothing has malfunctioned thus far, no squeaks or rattles, and great fit and finish. Jaguar put a lot of thought in this car and I think it's paid off. We had an S-type, 4.0 for two years and although it was a nice car, the X-type drives more nimbly and overall, for the money, is more satisfying. I'm also a Lexus owner and VERY fussy.

marsha7

if you want info regarding the X-type, or any Jag for that matter, one of the most knowledgeable people who is most generous and kind in sharing his knowledge and expertise is "brentwoodvolvo" usually found in the "XJ Jaguars" topic in Sedans and "Inconsiderate Buyers" topic in Smart Shopper...if he doesn't have the answer, the answer has not been discovered by man or machine...I do not know if he lurks in this topic, but you can find him in the others...

marsha7

topic, I spoke too soon...went back to look at earlier posts (hey, I just wanted to be helpful) and Brentwood Bill obviously lurks and posts here (why would I have though otherwise...sheesh ... and they even let me vote in the last election).. so, just sit back and wait, he will shortly come to your rescue...:):):)

im_brentwood

Thanks marsha!

Beer credits for you!

Hmm.. First year models... Some of the early S-Types were buggy, but that we found out quickly.

So far, everything I have heard about the X-Type has been good. No major problems. A few minor quirks that have bene posted here.

Bear in mind that the car is closing in on 6 months of production...

Oh, that used one? Did $1,100 back of original invoice....

Bill

sargoniv

For many years I customized Jaguar cars -- including installing various performance levels of Chevy V8 engines in cars with blown Jaguar engines -- and have a detailed knowledge of the past quality problems. Jaguars have always been great looking and handling cars, but reliability has been a problem. I followed the Ford/Jaguar combination with great interest and based on what I saw it worked out just fine. Ford has allowed Jaguar to continue doing what they are great at, but has brought in the funds and quality control that was needed.

I was of course concerned with the first year X-Type, but really like the car a lot. I was about to buy a BMW 330, but researched the X-Type first and based on this, I have one now with 3500 miles on it (3.0 sports model). This purchase was made based a lot on Jaguars Feb. document on what Ford and Jaguar had put into developing the X-Type:

http://jag-lovers.com/brochures/x-type/xtypepacktext2001.html

This document covers the same material several times from different view points, but overall is does the job.

On my car I can report ZERO problems in fit, finish, and function.

marsha7

does Manuels serve dark beer on tap???...something like Guinness Stout or AmberBock???

im_brentwood

Yup!

Guniness IIRC...Wait.. I was drinking Newcastle when I was there...

Highly reccomend the place.

Bill

marsha7

I assume it has changed somewhat over the years...the last time I remember being there was on a date in 1975, senior year in college...hope this doesn't carbon-date me too badly :):)

denk

For what it's worth, I test drove 4 different X-Types and each one of them had more than one initial quality defect. The problems I noticed were dashboard rattle,brake groan/grind(two cars had this),hard shift from first to second, sunroof shade completely out of it track. These problems plus the ones noted on this board caused me to cancel my order and wait to see what the quality experience is over the coming months.

rbrenton88

Are you still around? Wondering what town your store is located in.

-RB

im_brentwood

Hopefully I have been of some help here. And I will miss you all.

However, Jonah Brown has pretty much made it clear that myself and several others are not wanted here in Town Hall.

So, as such, I am bidding this forum goodbye for the time being. I'll be around, but won't actively post any longer.

If you need me, I can be reached via e-mail at directautogroup@aol.com

Take care guys!

Bill Weismann

kssod

just signed on a 3.0 sport manual with x1,x3 alpine and xenons, dealer needs to locate.
three gripes compared to competitors: 1) lousy cupholder not cupholders best is in A4 or lexus (ie concealed) not bmw,2) no memory seats, 3) no indash 6 dics. I really liked the A4 but the red background illumination was impossible to see on bright days since I am red green color deficient. 330xi is unavailable and no discounting, also jag style is #1. tl-s was a go but on my second drive the acura seats were poor, sat on seat not in seat like Jag, or for that matter th Acura cl. purely an emotional purchase since performance wise the Acura is almost equal but the jag is $8500 more after A plan discount. I hope the reliability is as good as the Acura. I will have to get used to 10k service intervals. Which tires have folks been getting on the sport? I've seen both P-zeros and I think allseason Contis.

pat

Bill - I do hope you will reconsider. The Town Hall community as a whole will miss your participation and contributions very much if you decide to leave.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

im_brentwood

You know who to talk to.

No courtesy of a reply for 2+ Weeks.

And obnoxious, arrogant. And, you know.. its' funny. Everyone seemed to know who Dana was.

10+ people have said "Who's Jonah?"

I think that alone speaks volumes.

Bill

bwm

My X-Type, 3.0 Sport, came with the Conti's. I'm in Chicago so that's probably the trade off for the winters.
By the way..... WHO is Jonah.....

leogenghis

I sympathize with you, Bill. Fellow 164 driver. ;-) I too haven't heard of Jonah. But back in the day (when they allowed hidden messages, which I would put this one in if the option was still avail.) I do remember a Dana.

riez

Check out the December Motor Trend. Test a Jag X-type 2.5 Sport 5-speed manual. Once again the affordable Jag is NOT to be found. Theirs had an MSRP of $40,320. 0-60 mph took a lengthy 8.5 seconds, though the car did moderately well in slalom. Small engine with only moderate output can't compensate for the heavy car, even with manual transmission. MT takes Jag to task for charging $6,000 premium to step up to the X-type 3.0. As they point out, it can't be due to manufacturing costs. Both engines cost about the same to make.

fpereira

Who's Jonah? And, while I'm here: perhaps it's the predicted sales of $45K 3.0's that allows Ford/Jaguar to offer the 2.5's at $35K. IOW, it's a grab for market share... although I never really understood the market share thing unless the product is clearly superior.

leogenghis

Jonah Brown is currently Consumer Services Manager at Edmund's. He doesn't come here to TownHall often though, unlike past managers like Dana.

mvargo1

All X-Types come with the Continental tires. There is a rolling change that will leave all X-types both sport and non sport with all season tires. The original Sport Pkg cars came with summer tires.

Also X-Types can now be ordered with in dash CD player.

kssod

the in dash is only available with the standard not premium audio. i'm taking a pole: best color for sport: adraitic, anthracite or platinum? also has anybody had any major problems now that the car is out 6 months? any recalls or Technical bulletins