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The price, however, is nuts. Especially an extra 6K for the 3.0. What was even crazier was the lease number. The money rate is not that great. Even worse, the residual, after 3 years, was about 50%. Leasing this would cost at least $150 more than a comparable BMW, either a high-end 330 or low end 530.
So where do these guys think they're going?
And are you implying that the front legroom in the CTS is greater than in the Seville?
But yes, the "Catera" has more "useable" legroom than a Seville.
One of the things you learn when you clear 6'3" is to completely ignore what auto makers claim when it comes to interior room. They speak in terms of "cubic feet". I suppose if I was a cube I'd have no problem.
The shape of the dash makes all the difference in the world. The Catera's dash falls away from the driver while all the other large Caddie cars protrude out toward the driver (referring to the bottom of the dash). As a result, I can get my legs under the wheel of the Catera but not the rest.
Case in point: When Chrysler released the LH sedans they shouted about how much legroom front and rear it had. I could never get comfortable in the LHS, Concord or Intrepid (then or now). But was comfortable for long trips in a Dodge Spirit!
I was hoping that the X-Type would be the one Ford product I would be able to fit. But that doesn't look like it's gonna happen.
Oh, and the R's were carnival red and black.
bmw xi because the CD player is $1200(and still in the trunk), and the dynamic stability control is wrapped up in another $1200 option. Without these two options the two cars are within $100 of each other, but with them it will cost you over 2 grand more for the x-type. The other items included in the $1200 dsc pkg are of no interest to me, so, as I said above, it really depends on what you want and don't want that will determine which car is "the better deal".
We're looking into how small sport sedans are taking over the market. Seems that high fuel prices and the teetering economy have more people looking at smaller cars. But they don't want econoboxes! We're looking at the likes of the 3-Series BMW, C-Class Mercedes and Jaguar X-Type.
The ideal example for my story is someone who recently traded in a big luxury car for a smaller one--like a 7-Series for a 3-Series, or a big Jag for the new small one. Any help is much appreciated! Please post your comments in the Talk to the Press discussion or send them directly to jfallon@edmunds.com. Thanks as always.
Note - responses should be made only to the links provided above. Jeannine Fallon, the PR director, won't see them if you reply here.
Thanks!
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Interior - The interiors had a totally different look and feel about them. The Jag instrument panel was dominated by the wood veneer and nav system, missing from the Ford. Craftsmanship was every bit as good on the Mondeo, prehaps even better. I honestly did not car for the sport seats in the jag. On a very long trip they were real assbusters. Leather on the seats did not appear to be of any better quality than the ford, and since they were the sport seats, they were only part-leather. I also missed having an audio control stalk off the steer column that is on the Ford. Nav system on the Jag was awesome. The rear seat and trunk were visably smaller on the Jag.
Dynamics - Despite having an automatic in the Jag, I could definately feel the difference between the two 2.5L engines. The X-type's variable valve timing I think clearly gave it a broader torque curve. I never felt lacking in power, even as I took it through some mountain passes with up to 30% grades. Ride wise, the Sport model Jag was much much stiffer than the Ghia Mondeo. Steering feel was an order of magnitude better on the X-type. Not that the Mondeo's isn't excellent, but it was really superb on the Jag. Dynamically, it felt like a smaller, more agile car than the Mondeo. The Mondeo might be a sport sedan by US standards, but the X-type made it feel like a frumpy mom mobile in comparison. I kind of expected the Jag to have much better NVH and windnoise, but I didn't see any difference.
valente1
Second - the Mondeo is not sold in the US. The contour and mystique were built on the same platform as the OLD Mondeo but they're gone now.
Overall I thought this was a good car, however a few things bothered us that I wanted to see if anyone else encountered:
1) Power -- although rated at 230/207 hp/ftlbs, the acceleration only felt adequate, not sporty.
2) Noise -- wind and engine noise seemed awfully high for a 'luxary' car. My F150 felt quieter. Does anyone else hear this?
3) Seating -- I could not get comfortable in the standard seats, mainly from a driver position standpoint. I'm wondering if the sport seats will be better. Anyone hace feedback on this?
4) One cup holder? -- come on, this is 2001. And the interior storage seemed sparse.
5) Safety -- does anyone have safety information for these models?
Kirk
It IS NOT lowly!
It handles better than most Jags inherently..
I shopped around quite a few dealers in Chicago area and actually ordered a 3.0 xtype. I canceled order and have delayed purchase b/c I could not get anyone under MSRP. I agree though, there seems to be a lot of cars on the lots.
2nd- i said would you call a mondeo, thats all the info i needed
3rd-whats so wrong about my grammar, are you a teacher or something
They do seem to be getting fairly big allotments here in Chicago with a lot of cars not spoken for.
I've not yet had the chance to drive the x-type, but your comments regarding NVH reminded me of the S-type when I was comparing that car against the BMW 528, Catera (Omega), Audi A6, Honda/Acura 3.2TL, and Mercedes E 320 when I needed to replace my wife's Honda Accord a couple of years ago. I was surprised by the comparatively high levels of NVH in the S-type (and in the E320) as compared to the other cars.
I was really disappointed, the engine and drivetrain in my 2000 Mitsubishi Galant LS is a lot smoother. The X-type had quick steering, but nothing special. It was really noisy, compared to our Galant and Solara. The interior plastics were of poor quality. I thought my Galant was bad. The Solora has thick, high quality plastics from the Lexus line. The X-type had thin, hollow plastics and the test car we drove was already had a bad rattle.
The dealer would only sell at retail prices and quoted $48K (3.0, Nav., Prem. Audio, Metallic Paint, X1 package, Tax and License). To be honest the vehicle felt no better than my $25K 2000 Galant.
I told my wife and the salesperson, that the car was not worth 48K. My wife was disappointed, since it is a beautiful car. I think if it sold at $30K loaded, I would reconsider, just because of the name and style.
I guess I have to start shopping again.
I thought our test drive was a bit noisy too. Disappointing. I didn't think the plastic was as bad as you mention, but I will look at it again.
Still, the car has outhandled anything we have tested in this range to date. Acceleration was a bit sluggish.
I agree, if it was a 30K automobile, I would buy it. At this point, I am little torn.
Kirk
What is in a name?
$$$$$$$$
Although it would not surprise me. Back in 1998 we didnt even get Meteorite (Silver) cars until like March or so.
And Metoerite was available on early MY00 S-Types only.. The others were all platinum Silver...
And while Sherwood Green was discontinued in the US after 1997, we did get 2 1998 XJ8s (VERY Early production) that were painted Sherwood (And in the USA It was a VDP/XK8 Color at that!) One of them, btw, was bought by Hall-Of-Famer Larry Doby (Heck of a nice guy btw.. real honor to meet him)
In other words.. Jag can get wacky with colors...
Bill
Comparisons have been run by several mags as indicated in other messages above. Just read a comparison in "Jaguar Monthly" -- English mag. Of course -- this is kind of like one of our Chevy mags not liking Chevy's, but I found their comments and comparisions to other Jaguars in the article more important than the fact that the X-Type beat the C-Class MB; "We actually like the X-Type a lot and consider that it is a far superior machine to its S-Type brother in terms of both fit and quality of trimmings", "It handles supremely well and corners with a leech-like grip", "the dashboard ergonomics cannot be faulted.... On the down side while they liked the front seats they pointed out; "back seat dwellers do not obtain such a good deal", and "The Jaguar suffers from too much front-end dive and rearwards pitch under acceleration. It is a strange situation because hard cornering is roll-free and faithful to driver input"....
This mondeo thing gets really lame. The cars only share 20% of their components, The A4 is just as much an AWD Jetta as the X is a mondeo. And as far as the engine goes whats wrong with having half an aston martin engine for 16% of the price.
If you want one for 30K, buy the 30K X-type 2.5 rather than the 3.0, Unless you drive on a race track the 2.5 is plenty quick especially with a 5-speed.
But the X is a packaged deal that goes way beyond those other cars. People walk up to my X and just out of the blue, tell me how neat a car it is. They're not even sure what it is...they just like it. I don't even know what a Solara or Galant look like...they're just another car on the road!
For me...living in the north country, where there are dirt roads and lots of snow...not to mention rain...there's just no competition between the X and those 2-wheel drive cars. Solara's and Galant's become helpless. I love the idea of a high-performance, but luxurious and fun, AWD vehicle.
The X is a unique, classy car. I'm absolutely thrilled with mine, having put 1200 miles on it in a couple of weeks. But it's not for everyone.
After driving a lot of different sedans, it is clear the X-type is not worth the $20K plus premium for AWD or 1 Sec faster to 60 mph. The vehicle is not luxurious or refined.
All I ask people to shop around.
I'd be surprised if there are any $26k sedans of any brand that really compare to an X (let alone $16k..as you allude to in your message).
Sure...people should shop around. But they also must compare apples to apples.
The one real speaker is driven by a small 35W amplifier and the news here get worse -- the amplifier is driven from the front head unit over fiber optics. Finding a 6 1/2" speaker or even two 6 1/2" speaker to replace the Jaguar units would be easy, but not sure how much this would buy you since the one installed seems pretty good for such a small unit. Increasing the sub size to a typical 10" or 12" would be a real job. There is not enough space to mount even an 8" speaker under the shelf. Adding a more powerful amplifier is also a problem given the fiber optics input.
Since I knew about the small sub/passive cone, and small amplifier from researching the X-Type, I did not order the $1200 option and planned to install an aftermarket CD and sub/amplifier system, unfortunately, after looking at my car I am not sure what I will be able to do. The CD also has a fiber optic link to the head unit so there are problems here as well for those not buying the option and wanting to add a CD. Of course, my dealer is more than willing to provide real Jaguar components.
With Mercedes, you pretty much have to anticipate ordering, I now very little about Jaguar so your help is appreciated.