@tlong said:
OK Uplander, that's fair. I was just razzing you a bit since you were one of the more vocal recall posters in the past!
I think the idea that no cars are infallible and that many cars are within statistical equivalence has been accepted by some of us. I just did some comparison shopping these last few months for a replacement car, and I am more certain now that
Concerning Toyota and recalls...for all the talk about how 'American' the company is, I will never forget the deer-in-the-headlights look that the President of Toyota North America had when being questioned by federal investigators about recalls. He deferred most everything to Mr. Toyoda.
Go Japan!
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
We'll see how GM will perform under pressure. They're about to get grilled. I imagine many at GM is in cover their [non-permissible content removed] mode considering how far back this ordeal goes.
NHTSA has some culpability here too. Things were reported. There's no indication that GM had an inside guy at NHTSA like toyota did for handling the misreporting of the UIA events as short term therefore outside the duration in which NHTSA was interested.
I look at the key on my Cobalt which is not in the years recalled (currently). I see and feel no way the key could be turned by the weight of a heavy ring. I wonder what is different about the earlier ones. I've looked for a Cobalt on a car lot to see the difference in the physical design.
I've seen people with key rings that looked like they had enough junk on them to be used for brass knuckles. The only way I can see that causing a problem would be if there were wings on the lock cylinder portion that the weight of the key ring could ride on and cause a downward force to rotate the lock cylinder back toward ACC, wearing it over time.
I absolutely admit, that this recall is bad, bad news. I can't think of a worse GM recall in thirty years or more. I do remember some serious Ford recalls in that period (Pinto, Explorer tires, falling out of 'park'), but this is bad...real bad.
I still enjoy my Cobalts...both of them.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
@imidazol97, everyone here has been telling people to report problems to safercar.gov for years. We used to park a link to the NHTSA at the top of lots of "problems" discussions.
I am surprised Genesis isn't worse, seeing as it is ancient, and with a new model coming, some must be holding out. Maybe production has slowed. Same for Tahoe.
The Sonic surprises me on that list. Gets good marks in that category in the mags. I detest the hatch and would buy the sedan for a second car, but I think 56 is not the target age for those cars.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I think this list is about what the vehicle is competing against in its class, not just its merits. You know, you drive an ATS and say "Hey this is a pretty nice car!" Then you drive a BMW. possibly selling for a little less money, and it has that iconic badge on the grille, and it shifts real nice...... and your commitment wavers...
@uplanderguy said:
The Sonic surprises me on that list. Gets good marks in that category in the mags. I detest the hatch and would buy the sedan for a second car, but I think 56 is not the target age for those cars.
One of my relatives just bought a Spark, of all things. I think he's about 70 by now. They try to market these little things to the youth crowd, but I think a lot of older buyers gravitate to them because they're easy to maneuver, and often sit up kind of high so they're easy to get in and out of.
@andre1969 said:
One of my relatives just bought a Spark, of all things. I think he's about 70 by now.
I think I would have bought a Sonic instead of what we got if it were only me. I would have compared the Cruze more against the Sonic and it's agility and improved gas mileage for short trip, city type driving. The showroom had one in a violet color, so I had to gauge my stomach's reaction to the pretty, but feminine color for a car when I got into it. But I liked it for in and out and position.Seats felt good. My wife was grinning about the color.
I guess hatchbacks don't sell that well in the U.S.
I'm kinda gettin' one of my iluv hankerings for this new for 2015 Mazda 2 codenamed Hazumi. Perhaps this will be the one that brings me back to a driving life of rowing my own. It was only one car back before the '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS that I was stick-shifting gears myself.
This rig looks like it will be a ball ta drive, though, light (1,900-odd lbs.) and small. Gotta check this one out when it comes out. I do like Mitsubishi's new Mirage but it doesn't pull on my heartstrings like this 2-replacement, though.
Kinda reminds me of a late 80's Honda CRV with an additional 2 doors added.
Edmunds has a long term Mazda CX-5 in the fleet that everyone seems smitten with. And it's available with a manual. Naturally if you want heated seats, you have to "upgrade" to the automatic.
Kinda reminds me of a late 80's Honda CRV with an additional 2 doors added.
Oops - I meant Honda CRX. But most everybody probably knew what I meant there. Yeah, only in south-central New Mexico one doesn't really need heated seats.
Mazda is getting on to a nice roll the past few years. Although I prefer the mean and growly Mitsubishi face that many car people are saying is really getting long in the tooth for them, there is something really appealing to me when I do the online walk-around of the Mazda Hazumi. And these SkyActive motors seem ta be the best ICE thing since pre-sliced ham, too. If they keep it a good notch under $20,000 (the 2014 Mazda 2 sells for around $15,000 so this is do-able I think) I may take a good longer look at it.
@MrShift@Edmunds said:
Small hatchbacks you mean? I think you're right.
I think part of the problem is that the advantages of a hatchback begin to diminish as cars get larger. Plus, the proportioning just doesn't seem right with larger hatches. But on the flip side, I think a hatchback tends to work better with a smaller car, as the trunks on the sedans are so stubby you wonder why they even bother. Bigger cars just seem to work better as wagons, IMO. Although those have been replaced by SUVs, crossovers, and minivans.
steve, Cruces is our weekly "real city" destination for shopping, health food, mall, movies, Mitsubishi dealer drive-by's, etc. It is a good place ta go to ta find what you can't find in Alamo, or just take a ride to.
BTW, if you might be interested in Alamogordo, you might be suprised at how affordable the housing is. IMO - because some locals who already own don't agree with me. I think that this city has some of the best house values-for-the-dollar of anyplace we've ever lived. We're still renting and plan on just staying renters for the time being.
Alamogordo is a slightly busy small city with the SW's oldest zoo, the Alameda Park Zoo that's only $2.50 ta get in and is pretty cool. There is the Space Museum, IMAX theater, new 10-screen regular theater called The Aviator, and only 2 grocery stores ta serve all 36,000 of us! Yep - that's right, we have a WalMart store and a store called Lowe's. Lowe's is a pretty good grocery store and WalMart is WalMart, and not much else.
We do have a new Albertson's opening up in probably about a year, though. There's lots of cool places ta visit nearby Alamo, including the little Texan getaway Ruidoso. It has a horse-racing/betting track and there's a resort you may of heard of before called The Inn of the Mountain Gods that hosts concerts, has gambling, great buffett, beautiful hotel rooms, golfing, game hunting, etc.
El Paso sits about 90 miles south of us if we feel the pull of a large city, but we're usually good staying away from there. I may take a risky trip to Juarez to get some dentistry done for a better price, but that one is still sorta up for discussion.
...And it's available with a manual. Naturally if you want heated seats, you have to "upgrade" to the automatic.
Where did this all come from with some mandatory options and special packaging?
I wanted a particular feature on our car but it wasn't available in the level I was at, but rather was in the next level up. And then one of the other packages I had chosen, mandated a sunroof in the next higher model--I don't do sunroofs.
I recall ordering a couple of cars where the dealer gave me the order sheet copy so I could go list the options I wanted and then return to settle on a price. Few options had exclusive or inclusive option requirements.
I like those White Sands, but we want a bit bigger town, and Las Cruces has a 4 year college vs. your two year one. And El Paso is a bit closer for the airport and dental work.
Sounds like Ruidoso is getting discovered, like Silver City is in the other direction. We were there last year on a "race day" but I don't remember much about it.
I suggested to my wife that once we get settled, we take the van to Juarez to have the various dents accumulated over the last 15 years buffed out, and get the van detailed and smurf it up in general and keep it a few more years, but I got the eye roll.
New town, new car (but we will wait to relocate to buy - you know me, don't want to have to register a car twice if I can avoid it).
@imidazol97, those days went the way of the dollar. Cheaper to limit the option packages and trims available.
Back in the early 00's, my Dad, who had been car-less since around 1987, decided to get one. Initially he wanted a Crown Vic because of it being a V8, RWD hold-out. But, imagine his disappointment when he discovered you couldn't get one with a manual shift!!
It's pretty amazing that in all those model years there hasn't been a single fire reported. I find that a little hard to believe, but as an auditor I'm skeptical by nature. The model years for this new recall go back as far as the Cobalts, so it took them nine years to make the recall. I predict we'll see claims of fires since the recall is now out. Back to Toyota for a minute...I didn't know this previously, but my Studebaker friend with a Tacoma said recently he had gotten letter(s) about an unintended acceleration class-action lawsuit.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Anyone can sue. That doesn't make it true. Most car makers have been sued and most are worthless. As to a Hondas recall being pro-active even a long time out, that's not unusual either. I had a recall for my '04 Vibe about a possible defect a year or so ago. No problems were reported with this defect but they replaced the parts of every vehicle with it "just in case". Sometimes problems are discovered long after. That does not appear to be the case with the Ignition issue. It's not the recall, but the company's response once a problem is discovered.
No doubt. I predict GM will be fined, as Toyota was a couple years ago, for 'stonewalling'. Just to see, I did look for "Odyssey fire" on youtube. A video came up right away. I could post it thirteen times like that well-known GM hater did here, but that would be churlish.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
GM's stance is that the families have no legal recourse because their accident occurred before 2009.
"That shield will be shattered by their active fraud over 10 years," said Bob Hilliard, the Corpus Christi, Texas, attorney who represents the parents of the girls. "There's some pretty black-letter bankruptcy law that says you can't fail to disclose information that might result in future liability."
Doug Bernstein, a bankruptcy lawyer with Plunkett Cooney, said there is no iron-clad immunity. GM probably did not specifically list the ignition problem as a potential liability and thus could be exposed.
"Full disclosure is the price of fresh start in bankruptcy," Bernstein said.
I have not heard that anywhere...but here. And I don't believe that even anyone on this forum believes that GM will make a public statement they they are not responsible. They have already apologized. But I believe the one family will have a hard time since their daughter was driving 69 mph the wrong way down a cul-de-sac, under the influence of alcohol when the accident occurred. The Saylor family in California wasn't doing anything like that.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
GM recall expands to Canada; safety group calls for $1B victims fund
Following reports that GM's 2009 bankruptcy effectively absolves the current company from liability in pre-2009 deaths related to the defective switches, the Center for Auto Safety has called on GM to establish a $1 billion victims fund to honor claims that "have been extinguished by the bankruptcy" or by statutes of limitations.
"While GM has said it knows of 13 deaths in 31 crashes with injury, this is just the tip of the iceberg," said CAS executive director Clarence Ditlow in an open letter to GM CEO Mary Barra. "The 13 deaths don't even include Brooke Melton who died in March 2010 and whose family's lawsuit broke the cloak of secrecy this past month."
GM has yet to publicly respond to the CAS call for a victims fund.
@uplanderguy said:
I have not heard that anywhere...but here. And I don't believe that even anyone on this forum believes that GM will make a public statement they they are not responsible. They have already apologized. But I believe the one family will have a hard time since their daughter was driving 69 mph the wrong way down a cul-de-sac, under the influence of alcohol when the accident occurred. The Saylor family in California wasn't doing anything like that.
That report was in today's USA Today.
IMO, if GM tries to wiggle out of liability on a technicality (and that's a big"if", by the way), there will be a huge backlash against the company, probably joined with legislation in Congress to remove the "exemption" of liability.
There are still tons of folks that are really unhappy about the bailouts, just waiting for an opportunity to say "We told you so...". And, such behavior make for good political fodder.
Yes, but they are not trying to duck the recall because of pre-and-post bankruptcy, and I would think any lawsuits would proceed as if there hadn't been a bankruptcy. Again, there was much talk (including on Edmunds) that said that warranties wouldn't be honored either, and that was untrue.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
@uplanderguy said:
Yes, but they are not trying to duck the recall because of pre-and-post bankruptcy, and I would think any lawsuits would proceed as if there hadn't been a bankruptcy. Again, there was much talk (including on Edmunds) that said that warranties wouldn't be honored either, and that was untrue.
Well, there's a pretty big difference between accepting the liability for a recall and accepting liability for the damages caused by the failure of a component that caused multiple deaths, all the time knowing of the defect for a decade.
I'm taking a "wait and see" approach. Its way too early to predict what posture GM is going to take.
Well, I would expect lawsuits to be handled on an individual basis. My guess is they would fight the family of the girl who was driving 69 mph, drunk, on the wrong side of the road. I'm sure that with the Pinto recall of 30-plus years ago, Ford probably fought some lawsuits as well...that is normal. I'd find it hard to believe that GM would do the recall, publicly apologize, and then say they weren't responsible for any lawsuits. We will see in the not-very-distant future, I'm sure.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Hate to say it, but I heard somewhere that GM was going to try and duck responsibility for anybody that died in a pre-bankruptcy car. I heard it either on MSNBC or CNN one morning. Forget which, but one of my housemates watches those channels incessantly, even though they start to repeat themselves after about 3 or 4 stories. But, just because Al Sharpton or TJ Holmes or Willie Geist or whoever says it, doesn't mean it's the gospel.
@uplanderguy said:
People mocked me for doubting that warranties wouldn't be honored, but...
I think GM will make a huge PR mistake (obviously) if what you heard, and what USAToday reported today, happens.
The problem GM has is the fact that there are numerous accidents being attributed to the defect. If it was a single case, where other factors were involved (alcohol, speeding, etc.), it would obviously be far simpler.
During my working life before I retired, I assisted 4 companies going through reorganization (at different levels). Bankruptcy is a time where the reorganizing company is required to bare its corporate soul, with the exception of trade secrets, etc. The bankruptcy courts take a very, VERY dim view of organizations that withhold relevant information, as it relates to knowledge of known liabilities, including the possibility of future liabilities. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, the company management has to state under oath that they know of no potential claims or future liabilities during the process.
In cases where information was judged to be withheld by the companies (or agents of the companies), the court has the right to assess penalties not only against those that withhold the information, but any party that potentially gained from that withholding, whether they were involved or not. I've seen cases in which assets were retrieved by the court and redistributed based upon information not provided during the proceedings.
Now, none of the instantances I dealt with were anywhere close to the complicated case of GM. And, I have no idea of what, if any, statute of limitations might apply.
In my view, the early responses from GM indicating the "new" GM isn't liable is just posturing. In the end, it's not GM's decision to make, but the judicial system. Because this knowledge of ignition switch defects was known years before the reorganization, it's going to be a tough row to hoe for GM to convince the public, much less the judicial system, that they are not liable, especially since the lion's share of the people managing the company after the bankruptcy were the very same ones running GM before the bankruptcy.
Might have been much easier to deny liability if GM had completely replaced upper management at the time of reorganization.
Like I said in an earlier post, we'll just have to wait and see.
Comments
I think the idea that no cars are infallible and that many cars are within statistical equivalence has been accepted by some of us. I just did some comparison shopping these last few months for a replacement car, and I am more certain now that
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I had heard that the death toll for the ignition key thing was pushed back to 12 from 13.
Concerning Toyota and recalls...for all the talk about how 'American' the company is, I will never forget the deer-in-the-headlights look that the President of Toyota North America had when being questioned by federal investigators about recalls. He deferred most everything to Mr. Toyoda.
Go Japan!
We'll see how GM will perform under pressure. They're about to get grilled. I imagine many at GM is in cover their [non-permissible content removed] mode considering how far back this ordeal goes.
NHTSA has some culpability here too. Things were reported. There's no indication that GM had an inside guy at NHTSA like toyota did for handling the misreporting of the UIA events as short term therefore outside the duration in which NHTSA was interested.
I look at the key on my Cobalt which is not in the years recalled (currently). I see and feel no way the key could be turned by the weight of a heavy ring. I wonder what is different about the earlier ones. I've looked for a Cobalt on a car lot to see the difference in the physical design.
I've seen people with key rings that looked like they had enough junk on them to be used for brass knuckles. The only way I can see that causing a problem would be if there were wings on the lock cylinder portion that the weight of the key ring could ride on and cause a downward force to rotate the lock cylinder back toward ACC, wearing it over time.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I absolutely admit, that this recall is bad, bad news. I can't think of a worse GM recall in thirty years or more. I do remember some serious Ford recalls in that period (Pinto, Explorer tires, falling out of 'park'), but this is bad...real bad.
I still enjoy my Cobalts...both of them.
@imidazol97, everyone here has been telling people to report problems to safercar.gov for years. We used to park a link to the NHTSA at the top of lots of "problems" discussions.
Makes you wonder why anyone bothers.
10 cars hardest to sell - cars with the highest inventory levels:
1 Fiat 500 148 $1,907
2 Buick Verano 143 $3,178
3 Chevy Sonic 138 $1,577
4 Cadillac ATS 137 $6,508
5 Volkswagen GTI/Rabbit/Golf 137 $1,963
6 Dodge Dart 124 $2,210
7 Hyundai Genesis 119 $3,145
8 Chrysler 300 – Series 114 $4,942
9 Chevy Tahoe 107 $7,377
10 Ford Flex 106 $4,502
Huh...the VW surprises me...the others kinda make sense.
so wait, the caddy sales guy that told me yesterday the ATS was a hot car might have been fibbing just a bit?
Darn.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
it's competing against the BMW 328, so that's a formidable opponent.
Yeah, I guess hatchbacks just don't sell that well in the US.
Small hatchbacks you mean? I think you're right.
I am surprised Genesis isn't worse, seeing as it is ancient, and with a new model coming, some must be holding out. Maybe production has slowed. Same for Tahoe.
Caddy ATS YTD Sales = 4,336 = COLD
BMW 3/4 YTD Sales = 14,285 = HOT
True, but mainstream is boring. I enjoy thinking outside conventional wisdom.
The Sonic surprises me on that list. Gets good marks in that category in the mags. I detest the hatch and would buy the sedan for a second car, but I think 56 is not the target age for those cars.
I think this list is about what the vehicle is competing against in its class, not just its merits. You know, you drive an ATS and say "Hey this is a pretty nice car!" Then you drive a BMW. possibly selling for a little less money, and it has that iconic badge on the grille, and it shifts real nice...... and your commitment wavers...
One of my relatives just bought a Spark, of all things. I think he's about 70 by now. They try to market these little things to the youth crowd, but I think a lot of older buyers gravitate to them because they're easy to maneuver, and often sit up kind of high so they're easy to get in and out of.
I think I would have bought a Sonic instead of what we got if it were only me. I would have compared the Cruze more against the Sonic and it's agility and improved gas mileage for short trip, city type driving. The showroom had one in a violet color, so I had to gauge my stomach's reaction to the pretty, but feminine color for a car when I got into it. But I liked it for in and out and position.Seats felt good. My wife was grinning about the color.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In keeping with the updated rules here: the Honda Odyssey has a 900,000 vehicle recall for fire safety. Gasoline leaks.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/03/15/honda-recall-odyssey/6469247/
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I guess hatchbacks don't sell that well in the U.S.
I'm kinda gettin' one of my iluv hankerings for this new for 2015 Mazda 2 codenamed Hazumi. Perhaps this will be the one that brings me back to a driving life of rowing my own. It was only one car back before the '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS that I was stick-shifting gears myself.
This rig looks like it will be a ball ta drive, though, light (1,900-odd lbs.) and small. Gotta check this one out when it comes out. I do like Mitsubishi's new Mirage but it doesn't pull on my heartstrings like this 2-replacement, though.
Kinda reminds me of a late 80's Honda CRV with an additional 2 doors added.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Edmunds has a long term Mazda CX-5 in the fleet that everyone seems smitten with. And it's available with a manual. Naturally if you want heated seats, you have to "upgrade" to the automatic.
Kinda reminds me of a late 80's Honda CRV with an additional 2 doors added.
Oops - I meant Honda CRX. But most everybody probably knew what I meant there. Yeah, only in south-central New Mexico one doesn't really need heated seats.
Mazda is getting on to a nice roll the past few years. Although I prefer the mean and growly Mitsubishi face that many car people are saying is really getting long in the tooth for them, there is something really appealing to me when I do the online walk-around of the Mazda Hazumi. And these SkyActive motors seem ta be the best ICE thing since pre-sliced ham, too. If they keep it a good notch under $20,000 (the 2014 Mazda 2 sells for around $15,000 so this is do-able I think) I may take a good longer look at it.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I think part of the problem is that the advantages of a hatchback begin to diminish as cars get larger. Plus, the proportioning just doesn't seem right with larger hatches. But on the flip side, I think a hatchback tends to work better with a smaller car, as the trunks on the sedans are so stubby you wonder why they even bother. Bigger cars just seem to work better as wagons, IMO. Although those have been replaced by SUVs, crossovers, and minivans.
Hm, well, that's the plan for us later this year so maybe we'll rethink that.
You guys are coming to the Land of Enchantment, New Mexico? Las Cruces, Santa Fe or Albuquerque? We're in little 'ole Alamogordo.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Las Cruces, but we're still in the malleable stage and are still open to suggestions.
steve, Cruces is our weekly "real city" destination for shopping, health food, mall, movies, Mitsubishi dealer drive-by's, etc. It is a good place ta go to ta find what you can't find in Alamo, or just take a ride to.
BTW, if you might be interested in Alamogordo, you might be suprised at how affordable the housing is. IMO - because some locals who already own don't agree with me. I think that this city has some of the best house values-for-the-dollar of anyplace we've ever lived. We're still renting and plan on just staying renters for the time being.
Alamogordo is a slightly busy small city with the SW's oldest zoo, the Alameda Park Zoo that's only $2.50 ta get in and is pretty cool. There is the Space Museum, IMAX theater, new 10-screen regular theater called The Aviator, and only 2 grocery stores ta serve all 36,000 of us! Yep - that's right, we have a WalMart store and a store called Lowe's. Lowe's is a pretty good grocery store and WalMart is WalMart, and not much else.
We do have a new Albertson's opening up in probably about a year, though. There's lots of cool places ta visit nearby Alamo, including the little Texan getaway Ruidoso. It has a horse-racing/betting track and there's a resort you may of heard of before called The Inn of the Mountain Gods that hosts concerts, has gambling, great buffett, beautiful hotel rooms, golfing, game hunting, etc.
El Paso sits about 90 miles south of us if we feel the pull of a large city, but we're usually good staying away from there. I may take a risky trip to Juarez to get some dentistry done for a better price, but that one is still sorta up for discussion.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
...And it's available with a manual. Naturally if you want heated seats, you have to "upgrade" to the automatic.
Where did this all come from with some mandatory options and special packaging?
I wanted a particular feature on our car but it wasn't available in the level I was at, but rather was in the next level up. And then one of the other packages I had chosen, mandated a sunroof in the next higher model--I don't do sunroofs.
I recall ordering a couple of cars where the dealer gave me the order sheet copy so I could go list the options I wanted and then return to settle on a price. Few options had exclusive or inclusive option requirements.
Where did those days go?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I like those White Sands, but we want a bit bigger town, and Las Cruces has a 4 year college vs. your two year one. And El Paso is a bit closer for the airport and dental work.
Sounds like Ruidoso is getting discovered, like Silver City is in the other direction. We were there last year on a "race day" but I don't remember much about it.
I suggested to my wife that once we get settled, we take the van to Juarez to have the various dents accumulated over the last 15 years buffed out, and get the van detailed and smurf it up in general and keep it a few more years, but I got the eye roll.
New town, new car (but we will wait to relocate to buy - you know me, don't want to have to register a car twice if I can avoid it).
@imidazol97, those days went the way of the dollar. Cheaper to limit the option packages and trims available.
Back in the early 00's, my Dad, who had been car-less since around 1987, decided to get one. Initially he wanted a Crown Vic because of it being a V8, RWD hold-out. But, imagine his disappointment when he discovered you couldn't get one with a manual shift!!
Fortunately Honda is recalling them BEFORE people start dying. No fires have been reported from the potentially bad fuel pump part.
It's pretty amazing that in all those model years there hasn't been a single fire reported. I find that a little hard to believe, but as an auditor I'm skeptical by nature. The model years for this new recall go back as far as the Cobalts, so it took them nine years to make the recall. I predict we'll see claims of fires since the recall is now out. Back to Toyota for a minute...I didn't know this previously, but my Studebaker friend with a Tacoma said recently he had gotten letter(s) about an unintended acceleration class-action lawsuit.
Anyone can sue. That doesn't make it true. Most car makers have been sued and most are worthless. As to a Hondas recall being pro-active even a long time out, that's not unusual either. I had a recall for my '04 Vibe about a possible defect a year or so ago. No problems were reported with this defect but they replaced the parts of every vehicle with it "just in case". Sometimes problems are discovered long after. That does not appear to be the case with the Ignition issue. It's not the recall, but the company's response once a problem is discovered.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
No doubt. I predict GM will be fined, as Toyota was a couple years ago, for 'stonewalling'. Just to see, I did look for "Odyssey fire" on youtube. A video came up right away. I could post it thirteen times like that well-known GM hater did here, but that would be churlish.
GM's stance is that the families have no legal recourse because their accident occurred before 2009.
"That shield will be shattered by their active fraud over 10 years," said Bob Hilliard, the Corpus Christi, Texas, attorney who represents the parents of the girls. "There's some pretty black-letter bankruptcy law that says you can't fail to disclose information that might result in future liability."
usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/03/16/gm-cobalt-lawsuit-tests-bankruptcy-immunity/6491011/
Doug Bernstein, a bankruptcy lawyer with Plunkett Cooney, said there is no iron-clad immunity. GM probably did not specifically list the ignition problem as a potential liability and thus could be exposed.
"Full disclosure is the price of fresh start in bankruptcy," Bernstein said.
I have not heard that anywhere...but here. And I don't believe that even anyone on this forum believes that GM will make a public statement they they are not responsible. They have already apologized. But I believe the one family will have a hard time since their daughter was driving 69 mph the wrong way down a cul-de-sac, under the influence of alcohol when the accident occurred. The Saylor family in California wasn't doing anything like that.
GM recall expands to Canada; safety group calls for $1B victims fund
Following reports that GM's 2009 bankruptcy effectively absolves the current company from liability in pre-2009 deaths related to the defective switches, the Center for Auto Safety has called on GM to establish a $1 billion victims fund to honor claims that "have been extinguished by the bankruptcy" or by statutes of limitations.
"While GM has said it knows of 13 deaths in 31 crashes with injury, this is just the tip of the iceberg," said CAS executive director Clarence Ditlow in an open letter to GM CEO Mary Barra. "The 13 deaths don't even include Brooke Melton who died in March 2010 and whose family's lawsuit broke the cloak of secrecy this past month."
GM has yet to publicly respond to the CAS call for a victims fund.
leftlanenews.com/gm-recall-expands-to-canada-safety-group-calls-for-1b-victims-fund.html
Additional 1.2 million SUV GM Recall:
npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/17/290871850/gm-recalls-1-2-million-suvs-for-problem-with-air-bags?ft=1&f=1001
Geez, this sounds like Toyota 2010!
Chrysler is recalling Fiats.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/new-cars/auto-news/chrysler-recalls-18092-fiat-500l-cars-for-transmission-issue/article17518275/
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That report was in today's USA Today.
IMO, if GM tries to wiggle out of liability on a technicality (and that's a big"if", by the way), there will be a huge backlash against the company, probably joined with legislation in Congress to remove the "exemption" of liability.
There are still tons of folks that are really unhappy about the bailouts, just waiting for an opportunity to say "We told you so...". And, such behavior make for good political fodder.
Yes, but they are not trying to duck the recall because of pre-and-post bankruptcy, and I would think any lawsuits would proceed as if there hadn't been a bankruptcy. Again, there was much talk (including on Edmunds) that said that warranties wouldn't be honored either, and that was untrue.
So much for 'ah come on, posting recalls here doesn't further the dialogue'. Sheesh. Some of the recall posters are the ones who asked for that.
Well, there's a pretty big difference between accepting the liability for a recall and accepting liability for the damages caused by the failure of a component that caused multiple deaths, all the time knowing of the defect for a decade.
I'm taking a "wait and see" approach. Its way too early to predict what posture GM is going to take.
Well, I would expect lawsuits to be handled on an individual basis. My guess is they would fight the family of the girl who was driving 69 mph, drunk, on the wrong side of the road. I'm sure that with the Pinto recall of 30-plus years ago, Ford probably fought some lawsuits as well...that is normal. I'd find it hard to believe that GM would do the recall, publicly apologize, and then say they weren't responsible for any lawsuits. We will see in the not-very-distant future, I'm sure.
Hate to say it, but I heard somewhere that GM was going to try and duck responsibility for anybody that died in a pre-bankruptcy car. I heard it either on MSNBC or CNN one morning. Forget which, but one of my housemates watches those channels incessantly, even though they start to repeat themselves after about 3 or 4 stories. But, just because Al Sharpton or TJ Holmes or Willie Geist or whoever says it, doesn't mean it's the gospel.
People mocked me for doubting that warranties wouldn't be honored, but...
I think GM will make a huge PR mistake (obviously) if what you heard, and what USAToday reported today, happens.
The problem GM has is the fact that there are numerous accidents being attributed to the defect. If it was a single case, where other factors were involved (alcohol, speeding, etc.), it would obviously be far simpler.
During my working life before I retired, I assisted 4 companies going through reorganization (at different levels). Bankruptcy is a time where the reorganizing company is required to bare its corporate soul, with the exception of trade secrets, etc. The bankruptcy courts take a very, VERY dim view of organizations that withhold relevant information, as it relates to knowledge of known liabilities, including the possibility of future liabilities. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, the company management has to state under oath that they know of no potential claims or future liabilities during the process.
In cases where information was judged to be withheld by the companies (or agents of the companies), the court has the right to assess penalties not only against those that withhold the information, but any party that potentially gained from that withholding, whether they were involved or not. I've seen cases in which assets were retrieved by the court and redistributed based upon information not provided during the proceedings.
Now, none of the instantances I dealt with were anywhere close to the complicated case of GM. And, I have no idea of what, if any, statute of limitations might apply.
In my view, the early responses from GM indicating the "new" GM isn't liable is just posturing. In the end, it's not GM's decision to make, but the judicial system. Because this knowledge of ignition switch defects was known years before the reorganization, it's going to be a tough row to hoe for GM to convince the public, much less the judicial system, that they are not liable, especially since the lion's share of the people managing the company after the bankruptcy were the very same ones running GM before the bankruptcy.
Might have been much easier to deny liability if GM had completely replaced upper management at the time of reorganization.
Like I said in an earlier post, we'll just have to wait and see.