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The Current State of the US Auto Market

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    "while Ram is gaining share through improved product and a segmented focus, ...."

    What does that mean exactly?

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023

    @MrShift@Edmunds said:
    "while Ram is gaining share through improved product and a segmented focus, ...."

    What does that mean exactly?

    I can understand the "improved product" part, as they have upgraded the trucks in the pasts few years. But as for "segmented focus" I don't know. Sounds like marketing school rhetoric. I mean, c'mon, to paraphrase the theme song to "Mr. Ed", A truck is a truck, oh....oh wait. Only thing I can think of that rhymes with "Truck" isn't quite acceptable posting on Edmunds...

    BTW, I sat in a few 2014 Silverados as the DC auto show about a month ago. I liked the fact that they seem easier to get into than my 2012 Ram. I think even the 4wd model seemed like it was an easier climb than my 2wd Ram. But, maybe 4wd trucks don't sit up higher than the 2wd models, like they did once upon a time? However, one thing I really didn't like about the regular-cab model, which is what I'd probably get, is that it was extremely cramped inside. GM seems really behind the times here. The steering wheel seemed too close to my chest, and there wasn't enough legroom for me to get comfortable. And almost no storage room behind the front seat. It was a lot like how they used to build trucks 40 years ago. Felt a lot like my '85 Silverado (a design that dates to 1973). Now, the extended cab models had good legroom and such, because they had more room for the seat to go back.

    I guess regular-cab trucks are a pretty small slice of the market these days, though. In fact, sometimes I second-guess myself for going with the regular cab/long bed configuration on my 2012 Ram. For the few times I've actually hauled something that was 8 feet long back there, I could have just dropped the tailgate and tied it down. I'd probably get more use out of the truck as an extended cab model with a back seat.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    Even some of the crew cabs seem like a "why bother" to me.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    I'm wanting for the most absurd extension of this idea---a 4 door truck, convertible top, 600 HP, sports-car handling, hybrid-electric propulsion, a detachable station wagon roof for the back bed and a shower and toilet.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    "The Homer". :p

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729

    I'll be the first to admit, I really don't need a pickup. I haul people and groceries most of the time. I wanted something to tow my boat and haul my weekend gear to the lake on the weekends. So interior space is what I need most (plus cargo room), so I have a crew cab with a 6'4" bed. Still a dang long truck. Makes it a pain to park, but the extra wheelbase sure aids in towing stability and you'd be surprised how often the extra bed length helps. A crew cab 8' bed is just insanely long. I have a friend with a f250 crew cab with 8' bed and it seems it's a country mile long.

    I will say I used to be on the other side of the fence, not understanding why people would want to drive a pickup or full-size SUV everyday. But I gotta say, now I don't like driving cars (never thought I'd say that). My wife's '13 Taurus feels sluggish, cheap, and cramped compared to my Ram.

    We're driving to Florida this month and I was planning on taking the Taurus, but the family let their objections known. My wife and kids all said the would much rather ride in the Ram if their going to be stuck in a vehicle that long. And really the extra gas isn't that much money, so I'll gladly spend that to keep from hearing everyone complain for 15-18 hours. I can't put a value on my sanity;)

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676

    @MrShift@Edmunds said:
    I'm wanting for the most absurd extension of this idea---a 4 door truck, convertible top, 600 HP, sports-car handling, hybrid-electric propulsion, a detachable station wagon roof for the back bed and a shower and toilet.

    Most of that is doable except the toilet. Local sanitation codes might be a problem. But hey! we've overrun state laws on headlight brightness and people have the blinding halogen lamps or buy the Sylvania unfocused flamethrowers that blind everyone and that all seems to be allowed.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2014

    Man, are you out of the loop, Imidazol97. :D

    The Bumper Dumper

    Leave it hooked up all the time and keep the tailgaters off your keister.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,423

    I had a Focus behind me the other way with a hilariously blinding misaligned headlight - it would have been annoying if it wasn't just so dopey looking. LEOs should go after that stuff more than they do simple old speeders. I routinely see cars with high beams on in city traffic, too - but I suppose it beats those who drive with no lights in heavy rain or dark (or both).

    The US has traditionally lagged behind the developed world in terms of headlight standards and regulations. I remember a lot of whine when the first xenons came around in the late 90s, too. Now, I wouldn't want a new car without them.

    @imidazol97 said:

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871

    Personally, I'm a fan of automatic headlights, as my lowly Chevys have had for a decade. Not an evening goes by when I don't pass cars driving with zero headlights on...oblivious to being repeatedly blinked at, as well,. Duh!

    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023

    @Stever@Edmunds said:
    Man, are you out of the loop, Imidazol97. :D

    The Bumper Dumper

    Leave it hooked up all the time and keep the tailgaters off your keister.

    Well, back in the 1960s, I believe Travco patented something called the "Destroylet", a toilet that would incinerate its waste. Maybe something like that would pass modern sanitation codes.

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261

    @andre1969 said:
    I guess regular-cab trucks are a pretty small slice of the market these days, though. In fact, sometimes I second-guess myself for going with the regular cab/long bed configuration on my 2012 Ram. For the few times I've actually hauled something that was 8 feet long back there, I could have just dropped the tailgate and tied it down. I'd probably get more use out of the truck as an extended cab model with a back seat.

    Did you check out the new Canyon and Colorado? They look closer in size to your 1985 Silverado than the current trucks which seem huge in comparison. They're actually quite nice looking.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871

    I wanted to do the Cleveland Auto Show yesterday, but we kept getting warned of 'Snowmageddon', which never happened. We went to see "Monuments Men" locally instead. Typically I'm not a fan of Clooney, but we enjoyed the story, which we had never heard before. The auto show is still on through next weekend, but, weather-permitting, I'm going to York, PA to an annual Studebaker parts swap meet and car corral. Even though I no longer have one, it's still fun to go.

    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited March 2014

    Honestly, I think the Colorado/canyon look real nice. Better than the silverado IMO. I'd think they'll sell well. The big question will be FE and price. But considering a lambda SUV is only rated like 1 mpg or so better than a full-size I don't know why you wouldn't just get a full size v8 truck unless you really don't want the size. Though I forgot the Colorado will also have a 4cyl option.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871

    The more I look at the Silverado, I think 'boxy'. I felt the same way when the '73 Chevy trucks came out, although in hindsight I like that particular styling.

    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729

    @uplanderguy said:
    The more I look at the Silverado, I think 'boxy'. I felt the same way when the '73 Chevy trucks came out, although in hindsight I like that particular styling.

    The interior of the new gm full size trucks leaves me cold even more than the exterior. No question they are nice trucks and huge a improvement over the out going model.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,357

    I toy with a PU as a second car but they are all way way too oversized. Except the Toyota which is an antique. I wanted the new ranger to come over but no such luck. The canyon is probably the size of an 80s half ton. And darned long

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871

    They'll be the only domestic small pickups. Ford had owned that bragging right for a long time.

    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,357

    They just aren't small. Even mid sized might be a generous description! And the ranger they featured on amazing race looked way cool.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Here's an interesting blog on brand marketing. This is about spark plugs but it could be about cars, too. It would relate to our discussion of "domestic content" and brand reputation:

    what do you think?

    http://blog.fcpeuro.com/2014/03/03/the-most-powerful-marketing-in-the-world/

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023

    The 2014 Silverado with the regular cab, long bed, is 224.4" long. My '85 is 212" according to specs I've seen in the past. But, I've heard that in those days, a rear bumper was optional, so it wasn't included in those published specs. Or, for whatever reason, they didn't include the rear bumper in the length. I've had the truck parked next to my '79 New Yorker, which is 221.3" long overall, and just eyeballing it, the two look like they're within a couple inches of each other. So I'm inclined to think my '85 is really longer than 212" if you include the rear bumper.

    In contrast, my 2012 Ram is 231" long, so that would most likely explain why it has the added legroom and rear seat storage, compared to the Silverado. Oddly, I think the Silverado's published legroom is greater than the Rams. I think the Ram is only rated at 41", but it feels fine to me. But that Silverado regular cab I sat in really felt cramped.

    As for the Colorado, I think there was one on display at the DC auto show, but I believe it was locked.

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729

    I think the Ram has a lot of extra length in front of the engine too. I swear they could shave a foot off the front and still have plenty of engine room.

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited March 2014

    I was looking for a used sedan for my youngest and here's what I got for the Malibu form the latest CR issue:

    Chevrolet Malibu:
    The four-cylinder and V6 sedans have
    far-higher-than-average problem rates in
    several areas. Models from 2005 through 2008
    have various fuel-system problems such as
    check-engine light and fuel-gauge trouble. The
    two oldest model years have problems with
    power windows, and 2004 through 2009
    models have locks and latches problems, with
    2008 being the worst year. A high incidence of
    brake and suspension problems crop up
    among 2004s through 2010s, with 2007 being
    the worst for brakes and 2006 the worst for
    suspension. Squeaks and rattles are especially
    prevalent in most years before 2009. The 2002
    and 2003 versions have frequent A/C and
    cooling-system problems. Keyless entry is
    conking out especially in 2004 to 2008 models.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited March 2014

    Were you really shopping for eleven and twelve-year-old versions? Thanks for your always unbiased observations. Keyless entry...duh, replace the batteries in a six-to-ten-year-old car. Was the keyless entry different between four and six-cylinders? ;) BTW, how's those turbo '11 Optimas? Up from worse-than-average? I have no idea.

    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165

    Don't forget that Korea has a long reputation for belligerent unions just like the UAW.

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited March 2014

    no, just from 2008 and up....

    2004 through 2009 models have locks and latches problems, with 2008 being the worst year. A high incidence of brake and suspension problems crop up among 2004s through 2010s, with 2007 being the worst for brakes and 2006 the worst for suspension. Squeaks and rattles are especially prevalent in most years before 2009.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited March 2014

    Since you won't answer this here, I just thumbed through the issue on the newsstand. The Optima Turbo is worse-than-average for '11, '12, and '13. It is not "recommended" by them, but the Malibu is. In fact, the '14 Malibu is highlighted in a large picture for "comfort", as is the Camry. The non-turbo Optima fares better than the turbo--average for '11 and '12 and better-than-average for '13. The four-cylinder Malibu is average for '11, '12, and '13, and the six much-better-than-average for '12. They do recommend the Optima, but only in non-turbo form. The list of problem areas on popular cars includes the Malibu, but also includes Honda, Hyundai, and Toyota models--in alphabetical order. Toyota, as usual, has lots of red circles. As I would choose not to buy from a Japanese-owned company, even more so I don't care at all for their styling--but won't berate those who do. Just wished to post some fuller disclosure here.

    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729

    Hey Andre, I just saw an article on MSN regarding used vehicles to avoid. The Ram 1500 was the only domestic 1/2 ton not on the list;) Maybe they just forgot about it;)

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871

    Older ones to avoid are probably under "Dodge". ;)

    I'm fuzzy on this, because I'm not a truck guy, but I thought that they recommended both Ford and Chevy pickups, and I have no idea of Ram.

    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited March 2014

    I don't know what these reports mean anything. Here's a link. I was posting it more for fun than anything else. Wide variety of vehicles among the 15 to avoid. Toyota and Honda are represented as well;)
    editorial.autos.msn.com/15-used-cars-to-avoid#1

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    I don't think I'd nix a car for "squeaks and rattles" or "frequent brake pad replacement". Now, head gasket failures, YEAH.

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729

    Squeaks and rattles drive me nuts, but they certainly don't lead to walking down the road;)

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729

    @uplanderguy said:
    Older ones to avoid are probably under "Dodge". ;)

    I'm fuzzy on this, because I'm not a truck guy, but I thought that they recommended both Ford and Chevy pickups, and I have no idea of Ram.

    Ha Ha! That's how Dodge shed the bad years of the Ram, they simply dropped the Dodge name and the baggage that goes with that name. LOL

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023

    @dieselone said:
    Hey Andre, I just saw an article on MSN regarding used vehicles to avoid. The Ram 1500 was the only domestic 1/2 ton not on the list;) Maybe they just forgot about it;)

    I dunno...they did manage to slip the Ram 2500 in there. But Ford still trumped them, having both the F150 and F250 on the list! Interestingly, the list of bad things about the Silverado failed to include the main reason I fear them...that 4L60E transmission. Also kinda interesting that they only singled out the '03-06 Silverado. Maybe the '07 redesign really was an improvement?

    It was refreshing to see the Camry, Accord, and Altima all represented on that list, and even Subaru put in an appearance!

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261

    Wow, I was surprised to see the Nissan Altima on that list and such a wide range of years to boot! I see a lot of them now being used as taxicabs in Philly - especially one company whose curious livery is maroon and light blue.

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 5,071

    I'm taking this with a large grain of salt. I know plenty of people who own many of these cars and have had no trouble with them. Furthermore, not even Consumer Reports lists most of these as "to avoid". I don't think they even read CR correctly.

    '24 Kia Sportage PHEV
    '24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666

    CR on the '14 Impala

    Cars to watch

    These redesigned models aren’t
    recommended because they’re too
    new for us to have reliability data.
    But they did well in our testing, ranking
    at or near the top of their category
    Chevrolet Impala
    Price as tested $39,110
    The Impala was one of the surprises of
    the year. In our testing, its stellar 95 score
    outpaced almost every other sedan,
    including some that cost $20,000 more.
    This breakthrough car is a thoroughly
    modern sedan that’s comfortable, quiet,
    and enjoyable to drive. It delivers a
    luxurious ride, agile handling, and capable
    acceleration, with a respectable 22 mpg
    overall. The spacious cabin is well-finished,
    with high-quality materials that look plush
    and contemporary. Rear passengers get
    oodles of space and comfort.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,357

    Way too big for everyday use though. IMO

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2014

    @circlew said:

    These redesigned models aren’t
    recommended because they’re too
    new for us to have reliability data.

    Much ado about not much?

    "Warranty costs are falling for the U.S auto industry, even as the number of recalls gradually increases, according to a new study released today.

    A review of publicly available data, conducted by the Southfield consulting firm Stout Risius Ross, shows that warranty claims as a percentage of revenue fell from about 2.7% in 2003 to 1.9% last year. GM and Ford had similar rates, at less than 2% at the end of 2013. Chrysler’s figure was not available.

    Automakers' warranty costs are falling despite increase in recalls (Detroit Free Press)

    Translation - cars just keep getting better and better.

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited March 2014

    CR on the '14 Accord: Best Overall

    Honda Accord (4-cyl.)
    Price as tested $23,270 Overall mpg 30
    The four-cylinder Accord
    is a spacious, well-equipped
    family car that does almost
    everything well. It provides
    responsive handling, a roomy cabin,
    comfortable seats, and a great view
    out. And it delivers a surprising 30 mpg
    overall, similar to some small
    subcompacts. An overly firm ride is one
    of our few reservations. We also tested
    an EX-L V6 version, but below-average
    reliability prevents us from
    recommending it. Hybrid and plug-in
    hybrid models are also available.
    THE ACCORD LINE
    Price range $21,955-$39,780
    Engine choices 185-hp, 2.4L four; 196-hp,
    2.0L hybrid four; 196-hp, 2.0L four plus
    electric motor; 278-hp, 3.5L V6
    OVERALL
    SCORE
    90

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666

    CR's Best Car

    No car matches the all-electric Tesla’s take
    on performance luxury. You can savor both
    its Porsche-like handling and effortless,
    silent glide on electric power. Our top-rated
    car covers about 225 miles on a charge, which takes
    5 hours to replenish on its proprietary charger. It can
    also snap off a quick 5.6-second 0-to-60-mph sprint.
    Running costs are low, and the rear hatch and front
    trunk add practicality. The breakthrough Tesla rewrites
    the rules for a modern luxury sports sedan.
    THE MODEL S LINE
    Price range $69,900-$94,900
    Powertrain choices 302-hp, 362-hp, or 416-hp, 60 or
    85 KW battery
    OVERALL
    SCORE
    99

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited March 2014

    Back to the used cars, models to steer clear:

    Steer clear of these troublesome vehicles
    hese models, listed alphabetically, are the worst of the worst. They have multiple years of
    much-worse-than-average overall reliability, based on 2004 through 2013 models, according
    to our Annual Auto Survey. Each one has at least three model years of reliability data.
    BMW X5 (6-cyl.)
    Chevrolet Cruze (1.8)
    Chevrolet Impala
    Chevrolet Uplander
    Chrysler PT Cruiser
    (nonturbo)
    Chrysler Town & Country
    Dodge Caravan
    Dodge Grand Caravan
    Dodge Journey
    Ford Explorer (V6)
    Ford F-250 & F-350 (diesel)
    Ford Fiesta
    Ford Flex (3.5L EcoBoost)
    GMC Acadia
    Lincoln MKT (EcoBoost)
    Mercedes-Benz GL-Class
    Mini Cooper S
    Mini Countryman
    Saturn Outlook
    Saturn Relay
    Volkswagen Beetle,
    New Beetle
    Volkswagen Touareg

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited March 2014

    CR on the Equinox:

    Chevrolet Equinox: Be wary of 2005 to 2010 models.
    This widely sold domestic SUV has been
    fraught with reliability concerns. The V6
    Equinox has been around longer and had
    many more problems than the four-cylinder
    version that was introduced for 2010. Owners
    of 2005 through 2008 V6s cite many problems
    with check-engine lights, brake wear, rotors,
    and other parts; and suspension problems
    such as with struts, shocks, and wheel
    bearings on 2005 and 2006 versions. V6
    models from 2005 are prone to A/C
    compressor and refrigerant leakage, and 2006
    models have heating-system problems. Some
    head-gasket problems are common on 2005
    and 2006 models. The V6s also develop many
    squeaks and rattles from 2005 through 2009,
    power window or lock problems on 2008, and
    some electrical (mostly battery and spark-
    plug) woes on 2007 and 2008 models. The 2010
    four-cylinder has far-worse-than-average
    frequency of engine problems, particularly
    with the timing chain. For those who didn’t
    replace the chain in time, an engine rebuild
    has been necessary. That is troublesome for a
    model that’s relatively new.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    "Automakers' warranty costs are falling despite increase in recalls (Detroit Free Press)

    Translation - cars just keep getting better and better."

    OR --- they're just denying more claims :)

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2014

    I keep forgetting you drive German - German OEMs still have the highest warranty costs worldwide. (warrantyweek)

    They can't say nein?

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    German cars need a voice command that says "ENGINE LIGHT OFF!"

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871

    CR had some pretty nice things to say about the Kia Sportage too. ;)

    It would be juvenile to post the details here.

    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited March 2014

    Who makes the best cars?

    Here are other notable findings:
    Japanese brands dominated, taking seven
    of the top eight spots. Following the three
    highest-scoring are Subaru, Toyota, Mazda,
    Honda, and Infiniti. he only Japanese
    brand that wasn’t in the upper half is
    Nissan, which ranks 18th out of the 23
    makes in our analysis.
    At the other end of the spectrum, Jeep
    and Ford tied for the lowest score. Jeep has
    a mix of spotty reliability and mediocre
    road-test results, and Ford continues to
    have reliability problems, especially with
    its MyFord Touch system.
    Audi’s luxurious, fun-to-drive, and fuel-
    efficient cars earned it the highest overall
    average road-test score of 83. Mercedes-
    Benz followed at 81, and Chrysler, Infin iti,
    and Subaru tied at 80. Jeep has the lowest
    road-test score, dragged down by the
    Wrangler, which scored 20 points; the
    dated Compass and Patriot; and the unim-
    pressive new Cherokees.
    Lexus is the only brand to achieve an
    excellent overall reliability score, with the
    following six makes earning a very good
    rating. Only Cadillac, Dodge, and Ford
    had a below-average reliability score.
    In general, luxury brands outperformed
    their mainstream stablemates. In other
    words, Lexus outscored Toyota, Acura was
    higher than Honda, Audi outpaced Volks-
    wagen, and Infiniti fared far better than
    Nissan. he only exception was Cadillac,
    which scored the lowest of any of General
    Motors’ brands, based mainly on problems
    with the XTS’ CUE infotainment system.

    A domestic mixed bag
    The bottom five brands are from Detroit:
    Jeep, Ford, Dodge, Cadillac, and Chevrolet. The top American makes—Buick, GMC,
    and Chrysler—scored midpack.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871

    Interesting info, from subscribers of CR only. Remind me what they said and showed about the Sportage?

    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194

    nytimes.com/2014/03/09/business/auto-regulators-dismissed-defect-tied-to-13-deaths.html

    Auto Regulators Dismissed Defect Tied to 13 Deaths

    The government appears to have slipped - they knew about the key issues on GM vehicles and did nothing for many years. Perhaps it would have been bad publicity during a BK? Unfortunately 13 people are dead.

    What's more important - more recalls, or how many people have died? I know my opinion on that.

This discussion has been closed.