@uplanderguy said: > We'll see if GM is fined for skirting recall issues, as Toyota famously was only a couple years ago.
Skirting?!!! toyo blantantly misrepresented complaints about unintended acceleration events as being short to make them "no problem" under the NHSTA rules, IIRC. They also stalled the recalls for longer than their infamous sludge problems. They make the Firestone tire company stalling look like child's play. Firestone stalled on recalling tires till most of them were used up and off the cars, IIRC.
@uplanderguy said:
I have never heard of a $1,000 limit.
GM Card has redemption allowances that cap the amount a buyer can use per purchase; ie $500 on Sonic, $1,000 on Cruze/Equinox, $1,500 on Malibu, $2,000 on Silverado,etc.
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That has never happened to me, ever. I think you might be confusing that with a manufacturer rebate. I last used mine in June 2011--no cap such as you're saying, and I used mine on top of a $3,000 manufacturer's rebate. To this day, every GM card bill, I routinely get all their rebate offers, plus offers to 'round up' my current GM card dollars.
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Hyunkia dropping back to normal for problems in 3 year old cars. Head of Hyunda comes to Alabama nonunion plant to "fix" the problem.
"Hyundai owners reported an average of 169 problems per 100 vehicles in J.D. Power's 2014 Vehicle Dependability Study, which measures the performance of vehicles after three years of ownership. It was Hyundai's second year of increasing problems after steady improvement from 2009 through 2012.
"Sargent declined to identify the main issues that drove the Sonata complaints. But for the industry in general, the J.D. Power study found a rise in engine and transmission problems, especially for four-cylinder engines."
GM Recall ... I wondered about whether the ION should have been included along with the Cobalt and G5.
I've got an '06 ION that has had the ignition switch replaced. And, my daughter had two experiences with it where it stopped running for no apparent reason. Once on a country road, but the other time was in Denver during rush hour traffic on the highway. Both times this happened was with less than 40K on the clock. I then drove it for another 60K miles without any issues other than needing to replace the ignition cylinder.
@uplanderguy said:
Top 10: Which vehicles will last 200,000 miles?
Buehler.....Buehler??
I thought it was a bit interesting, how that article tried to put a negative spin on those long-lasting vehicles, by saying that one possible reason fewer European models are on there is that those vehicles become more valuable as parts cars long before then.
I would think that the majority of high-mileage vehicles would simply be those that tend to be pressed into high-mileage service...vehicles that are popular as taxis, for instance. Or trucks that get driven alot for business. For instance, the guys that built my pole barn back in 2005 showed up in a 1999 or so Chevy Silverado, and it had over 200K miles on it. It was just a half-ton truck, with the 4.8 V-8, but he used it to haul a trailer and a bed full of material and such all over the place. Based in Ohio, but did a lot of business in Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, West Va, etc.
But, I noticed there were no Crown Vics, Grand Marquises, or Town Cars on that list...all cars that are common as taxis, livery service, etc. But, I believe that list was going by vehicles that get re-sold with high mileage. I'd imagine that once a car becomes a taxi, it pretty much gets run into the ground and then scrapped or parted out, but rarely, if ever, re-sold. Unless it's to a junkyard!
Also kinda curious that there are no Dodge Rams on that list. I would think that the 3/4 ton Ram, espeically, would see a good number of units make it to 200K, just as the Fords, Chevies, and GMC's did. So either the Rams are turds that don't make it to high mileage or, like a taxi, they just keep running and running, never get re-sold, and just get driven til they drop?
I'm not sure what it all means. A city bus would probably outscore all of these.
I think spare parts and cost of repairs has a lot to do with which cars survive. If your engine or transmission blows on your 10 year old German luxury car, you might as well junk it. But you can find used or reman engines for a Ford pickup as easily as snapping your fingers, and a mechanic to moonlight the installation. Not too many mechanics doing R&Rs on BMW twin turbos in the driveway.
@uplanderguy said:
Top 10: Which vehicles will last 200,000 miles?
Buehler.....Buehler??
To be fair, one of the reasons I believe most of the vehicles are trucks and SUVs is that those types of vehicles are often used for business or utility uses, and people tend to keep repairing them longer than cars. I don't believe that cars fundamentally can't last just as long as trucks and SUVs. So that set of statistics IMHO doesn't mean as much as it would appear.
Suburbans and Tahoes as utility/business vehicles? Not in my parts. If that were the case, we'd be seeing Chevy Express and Ford Econoline vans more on that list. I concur with you on pickups.
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@uplanderguy said:
Suburbans and Tahoes as utility/business vehicles? Not in my parts. If that were the case, we'd be seeing Chevy Express and Ford Econoline vans more on that list. I concur with you on pickups.
Yes, but they don't change appearance as radically as cars do, so their perceived obsolescence is less important. Also, many people hang on to these types of vehicles for boat towing, etc., while keeping a more modern car for everyday use.
I think Suburbans are popular as tow vehicles for camping trailers and such. As a result, they might rack up a lot of highway miles pretty quickly. Dunno if a Tahoe would be as good as a tow vehicle though, as it has a stubbier wheelbase.
@uplanderguy said:
That has never happened to me, ever. I think you might be confusing that with a manufacturer rebate.
I can promise you I'm not confusing it with a rebate. There are redemption allowances for every vehicle. Some GM Card holders have a prior version of the card that allows for more liberal usage. I see a lot of discussions about the "old" vs "new" card in this regard. I acquired mine in 2005 and the prior program was gone by then. You likely have the old version and are afforded a greater benefit.
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@js06gv said:
I can promise you I'm not confusing it with a rebate. There are redemption allowances for every vehicle. Some GM Card holders have a prior version of the card that allows for more liberal usage. I see a lot of discussions about the "old" vs "new" card in this regard. I acquired mine in 2005 and the prior program was gone by then. You likely have the old version and are afforded a greater benefit.
I thought the old one I had evolved into the new redemption limits. I dropped it and just settled for getting cash rebates from other credit cards. When I bought my 93, I believe I had on the order of $4600 to redeem. My dealer said it was the largest he had seen. I had figured out we could purchase our groceries using the credit card and build up $$$$ fast.
I think I've had mine since the late '90's. In June 2011 when I last bought a new Chevy, I didn't even mention the GM card until after our deal was made. I got all of my money off the new car.
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I thought the old one I had evolved into the new redemption limits. I dropped it and just settled for getting cash rebates from other credit cards. When I bought my 93, I believe I had on the order of $4600 to redeem. My dealer said it was the largest he had seen. I had figured out we could purchase our groceries using the credit card and build up $$$$ fast.
You had a heck of a deal. I used my card exclusively and that's how I built up such a balance, hoping one day the "good" program would come back but it fell into the "all good things must come to an end" category.
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Andre, I'm kind of surprised a Ram isn't on that list either. Simply because of the Cummins diesel.
From my experience full-size pickups and SUVs while likely not any more reliable, certainly are more durable than most cars. They can take more of a beating simply due to being heavier duty.
Plus pickups have better resale value than most cars, so they're more likely to be repaired than junked at higher miles.
As many have said, this list is a function of how these vehicles are used as much as anything else.
I know several small business owners that drive Suburbans/Tahoes, other than that, I don't think they're large fleet sellers. Still, most people I know with Suburbans drive the hell out of them. Just as I do. Almost 11k on my Ram at 5 mos. old Still no issues.
You should be reimbursed for that repair, no sweat I'd think.
Even with this expanded recall, they're still 700K fewer cars than this month's Toyota recall about cars stopping, but of course the big difference is no fatalities (yet) in theirs, unlike GM's. I did see that CBS attributed 89 fatalities to Toyota's unintended acceleration fiasco.
That was then; this is now, though. You won't see me bringing up any early 1970's recalls.
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In October 2012, GM recalled 40,859 cars in the U.S., including the 2007–2009 Cobalt and 2007–2009 G5, for cracking fuel pumps that could leak. That was an expansion of an earlier recall for the same problem in 2009. In March 2010, 1.3 million Cobalts from 2005–2010 and G5s from 2007–2010 were recalled worldwide for electric power steering that could suddenly shut down while driving.
DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Co, the biggest U.S. automaker, wants to avoid the recall of more than 200,000 of its new full-size Chevrolet and GMC pickup trucks, asking U.S. safety regulators to declare an electronic glitch as "inconsequential" to safety.
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The glitch can occur when the driver is using the steering wheel controls to search for a song and potentially cause the instrument panel lights to briefly go off or malfunction lights to briefly go on.
GM filed a petition with the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration last fall saying a recall of 200,921 Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra pickups from model year 2014 was not needed as the issue was rare and "inconsequential to motor vehicle safety".
You get angry when I post recalls that are larger than GM's, yet you continue to post ONLY GM recalls. Calling Dr. Freud! I really don't think you want anyone posting the many, many Toyota and Honda recalls of the last five years. And you never did answer my earlier question...is your Optima a turbo, one of those "worse than average reliability" models?
Soon, I'm sure, will be more TSB's from the 1980's posted, relating to Cobalts. LOL
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I thought this was the discussion where the posters didn't want to post recalls.
There was a long tread of discussions about the was distracting from the topic.
ROFLMAO.
My take-away from the GM, Toyota and every other manufacturer recall history is this:
1- Every manufacturer will, at some point, have recalls. Many of these recalls will be hotly contested by the manufacturer. Some recalls will be serious... Others insignificant.
2- The nationality of the manufacturer has far less to do with the recall than the costs of the recall to the manufacturer performing the recall.
Anything else, as to regarding who has the more significant/serious recall is just an entry into some sort of measuring contest. The laws of physics recognize no boundaries between manufacturers.
True, but that has historically here been so often a one-sided argument. When the balance swings the other way, cries of "this really doesn't add to the discussion" crop up.
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Every manufacturer will, at some point, have recalls>
There isn't a balance to swing. Recalls are a fact of automotive life and are not calculated in the reliability of vehicles. Could we just move on. And, if ever anybody brings it into the discussion again, could we ignore it. There is no need to leap to any automaker's defense.
There's no "balance"---recalls happen to automaker X, then they happen to Y, then Z gets lucky and has none for 3 months, then Z gets clobbered and X and Y are quiet---recalls are like the weather. If you try to defend or to criticize a company based solely on the number of recalls, you'll drive yourself (and most other people) crazy, because it's not logical.
I could argue, quite soundly, that the company to most worry about is the one with no recalls.
The only real way to judge a car company's success is by how many people buy their products.
No car company ever went broke making cars that people like.
Betamax and cassette tape recording equipment were both made by competent companies that successfully ran their businesses. And, they were excellent products, well made and suited to their target markets.
Regardless how efficient those business centers were run, though, VHS and CD easily eclipsed them, because the buying public identified those as better products. Beta and VHS did the same thing (in fact, Beta was a slightly higher quality), but VHS out-marketed Beta with an extra hour of recording time (5 .vs. 6 hours).
Without a desirable product, everything else is irrelevant.
GM has, so far, acted quickly in trying to take the fall for faulty ignition switches that are being blamed for accidents that claimed the lives of 13 people. After an initial recall Feb. 13, it more than doubled the number of vehicles involved to 1.37 million with a new recall Monday.
It also apologized, a move by GM that Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety, says hasn't happened for decades.
By contrast, Toyota let its debacle drag on and on, capped by congressional hearings.
There are similarities between GM and Toyota's recalls. Both involved loss of life. Both involved expanded, or in the case of Toyota, multiple expanded recalls. But so far GM appears to have acted more decisively. Ditlow, for instance, credits GM's recall actions over the past two weeks, but faults GM for issuing a service bulletin, instead of a recall, in 2006 when it identified the problems in the Cobalt and knew how to fix them.
Here are nine missed chances to act sooner revealed in the chronology:
• 2004, GM could have fixed this before it sold a single Cobalt: GM concedes it knew in 2004, before launching the 2005 Chevrolet Cobalt, that the ignition switch might inadvertently move from "run" to "accessory," stalling the engine and cutting power to safety systems. A company engineer had the problem testing the soon-to-be-launched car and engineers proposed several solutions, but because of "lead time required, cost, and effectiveness of each" solution, none was adopted and the car went on sale with the faulty switch.
• 2005, a partial fix was proposed -- but not adopted. Engineers suggested a simple change in the key from a slot to a round hole to ease stress on the switch -- a solution GM later adopted – but initial approval later was canceled. It did send dealers a bulletin telling them to modify existing keys with an insert and to tell owners to take extra items off their keychains -- but only if customers came in complaining of stalling problem on the Cobalt. Only 474 owners got the inserts, GM warranty data showed.
• 2005, GM knew it wasn't just the Cobalt with the risk. Later that year, an updated bulletin was sent to dealers, expanding the models and years of vehicles involved – including all built with the same switch. Those are now the vehicles and models years recalled in the past two weeks.
• 2006, GM OK'd a better switch, but didn't make it so mechanics could identify it. The engineer in charge of the ignition switch approved a new design by supplier Delphi, but the new design continued to use the same part number as the one it replaced. That means it wouldn't have been obvious to the company or to a dealer or repair shop whether a switch was the older design or the, presumably safer, newer configuration.
• 2007, new switch goes in new cars? GM believes -- but says in the chronology that it is not sure when -- that during this vehicle model year the improved switch finally was being used on the assembly line for new cars.
• 2007, GM gets first report of fatal crash. Federal safety officials tell GM that a 2005 fatal Cobalt crash involved a switch that malfunctioned and airbags that failed to deploy. GM said it didn't know about the crash until informed by the officials. And only then does GM assign an engineer to track Cobalt crashes where the airbags fails.
• 2009, GM finally adopts new key design from 2005. Keys now are made in the way first proposed in 2005 -- with a hole and not a slot.
• 2013, GM determines the original switch wasn't made right. GM determines, now years after the fact, that the switches made before the 2006 modifications failed to meets its design specifications.
• 2014, at last a recall -- and then another. On Feb. 13 GM recalls the Cobalt and nearly identical Pontiac G5 -- less than half the cars using the potentially faulty ignition switch. On Feb. 25, it adds the rest of the vehicles with the part -- all those mentioned back in the years-earlier heads-up to dealers. All 1.62 million throughout North America will get a new ignition switch to make sure the car doesn't stall and lose its airbags.
@MrShift@Edmunds said:
You know, that Insight was a nice driving car!
Was the second-gen Insight a nice driving car, or was that the first one, the 2-seater? I heard that the second-gen was pretty mediocre in most respects. Never drove one, though. But, Hondas usually drive a bit nicer than Toyotas, so maybe it was still a better driving car than a Prius?
General Motors has really taken it on the chin this week with the recall of over 1.3-million cars and a separate potential safety issue found in over 200,000 of its 2014 pickups. Things aren't getting any better, because now questions are being raised about the early sales success of its new trucks. Barclays Capital analyst Brian Johnson tells Automotive News, "the launch has been arguably the least successful large pickup launch over the last 15 years."
Probably due to the bad weather regarding the lower launch sales. You couldn't even see the cars/trucks around central NJ for a few weeks because the dealers couldn't keep the snow off of them.
It's going to be interesting to see how drivers, truckers and everyone involved in transportation, are going to deal in the future with climate extremes on an unprecedented scale.
Makes me wonder if cars in the near future will be designed to be more "rugged" and climate-proof. Hey, maybe I've stumbled on the answer to why there's been a surge in SUV and truck sales?
Barclays’ Brian A. Johnson and team sum up General Motors’ predicament:
Competition means that [General Motors] has to accept either weak share or lower pricing: Ford is discounting its outgoing ½ ton truck and raising capacity for ¾ ton trucks, while Ram is gaining share through improved product and a segmented focus, as well as continued incentive use. The two OEMs combined have largely been equally responsible in taking the ~330bp of segment share that [General Motors] has lost since ‘12. With [General Motors] trailing 3-month segment share at 34%, we see it as unlikely that it will be able to recover to its ’12 or ‘13 share levels (37.2%/36.5% respectively) without increasing incentives.
Comments
I forgot about the HHR, but I did wonder about the Ion. I predict the recall will eventually go to the end of Cobalt production.
We'll see if GM is fined for skirting recall issues, as Toyota famously was only a couple years ago.
Top 10: Which vehicles will last 200,000 miles?
Buehler.....Buehler??
circle, is there some reason you would not mention the 2.1 million Toyotas recalled this month for stopping without notice? Just wondering.
Skirting?!!! toyo blantantly misrepresented complaints about unintended acceleration events as being short to make them "no problem" under the NHSTA rules, IIRC. They also stalled the recalls for longer than their infamous sludge problems. They make the Firestone tire company stalling look like child's play. Firestone stalled on recalling tires till most of them were used up and off the cars, IIRC.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
GM Card has redemption allowances that cap the amount a buyer can use per purchase; ie $500 on Sonic, $1,000 on Cruze/Equinox, $1,500 on Malibu, $2,000 on Silverado,etc.
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That has never happened to me, ever. I think you might be confusing that with a manufacturer rebate. I last used mine in June 2011--no cap such as you're saying, and I used mine on top of a $3,000 manufacturer's rebate. To this day, every GM card bill, I routinely get all their rebate offers, plus offers to 'round up' my current GM card dollars.
Not Holding UP
2009/2006 161* 14 4
2010/2007 148* 11 4
2011/2008 132* 10 2
2012/2009 125* 10 4
2013/2010 141 22 13
2014/2011 169 27 13
Hyunkia dropping back to normal for problems in 3 year old cars. Head of Hyunda comes to Alabama nonunion plant to "fix" the problem.
"Hyundai owners reported an average of 169 problems per 100 vehicles in J.D. Power's 2014 Vehicle Dependability Study, which measures the performance of vehicles after three years of ownership. It was Hyundai's second year of increasing problems after steady improvement from 2009 through 2012.
"Sargent declined to identify the main issues that drove the Sonata complaints. But for the industry in general, the J.D. Power study found a rise in engine and transmission problems, especially for four-cylinder engines."
http://www.autonews.com/article/20140224/RETAIL/302249966/sonata-drags-down-hyundai
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
GM Recall ... I wondered about whether the ION should have been included along with the Cobalt and G5.
I've got an '06 ION that has had the ignition switch replaced. And, my daughter had two experiences with it where it stopped running for no apparent reason. Once on a country road, but the other time was in Denver during rush hour traffic on the highway. Both times this happened was with less than 40K on the clock. I then drove it for another 60K miles without any issues other than needing to replace the ignition cylinder.
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I thought it was a bit interesting, how that article tried to put a negative spin on those long-lasting vehicles, by saying that one possible reason fewer European models are on there is that those vehicles become more valuable as parts cars long before then.
I would think that the majority of high-mileage vehicles would simply be those that tend to be pressed into high-mileage service...vehicles that are popular as taxis, for instance. Or trucks that get driven alot for business. For instance, the guys that built my pole barn back in 2005 showed up in a 1999 or so Chevy Silverado, and it had over 200K miles on it. It was just a half-ton truck, with the 4.8 V-8, but he used it to haul a trailer and a bed full of material and such all over the place. Based in Ohio, but did a lot of business in Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, West Va, etc.
But, I noticed there were no Crown Vics, Grand Marquises, or Town Cars on that list...all cars that are common as taxis, livery service, etc. But, I believe that list was going by vehicles that get re-sold with high mileage. I'd imagine that once a car becomes a taxi, it pretty much gets run into the ground and then scrapped or parted out, but rarely, if ever, re-sold. Unless it's to a junkyard!
Also kinda curious that there are no Dodge Rams on that list. I would think that the 3/4 ton Ram, espeically, would see a good number of units make it to 200K, just as the Fords, Chevies, and GMC's did. So either the Rams are turds that don't make it to high mileage or, like a taxi, they just keep running and running, never get re-sold, and just get driven til they drop?
I'm not sure what it all means. A city bus would probably outscore all of these.
I think spare parts and cost of repairs has a lot to do with which cars survive. If your engine or transmission blows on your 10 year old German luxury car, you might as well junk it. But you can find used or reman engines for a Ford pickup as easily as snapping your fingers, and a mechanic to moonlight the installation. Not too many mechanics doing R&Rs on BMW twin turbos in the driveway.
To be fair, one of the reasons I believe most of the vehicles are trucks and SUVs is that those types of vehicles are often used for business or utility uses, and people tend to keep repairing them longer than cars. I don't believe that cars fundamentally can't last just as long as trucks and SUVs. So that set of statistics IMHO doesn't mean as much as it would appear.
Damn right--if your plumbing truck goes down, its fixed the same day and for whatever it costs.
Suburbans and Tahoes as utility/business vehicles? Not in my parts. If that were the case, we'd be seeing Chevy Express and Ford Econoline vans more on that list. I concur with you on pickups.
'Burbs are used in livery service.
Yes, but they don't change appearance as radically as cars do, so their perceived obsolescence is less important. Also, many people hang on to these types of vehicles for boat towing, etc., while keeping a more modern car for everyday use.
I think Suburbans are popular as tow vehicles for camping trailers and such. As a result, they might rack up a lot of highway miles pretty quickly. Dunno if a Tahoe would be as good as a tow vehicle though, as it has a stubbier wheelbase.
I can promise you I'm not confusing it with a rebate. There are redemption allowances for every vehicle. Some GM Card holders have a prior version of the card that allows for more liberal usage. I see a lot of discussions about the "old" vs "new" card in this regard. I acquired mine in 2005 and the prior program was gone by then. You likely have the old version and are afforded a greater benefit.
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I thought the old one I had evolved into the new redemption limits. I dropped it and just settled for getting cash rebates from other credit cards. When I bought my 93, I believe I had on the order of $4600 to redeem. My dealer said it was the largest he had seen. I had figured out we could purchase our groceries using the credit card and build up $$$$ fast.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think I've had mine since the late '90's. In June 2011 when I last bought a new Chevy, I didn't even mention the GM card until after our deal was made. I got all of my money off the new car.
I thought the old one I had evolved into the new redemption limits. I dropped it and just settled for getting cash rebates from other credit cards. When I bought my 93, I believe I had on the order of $4600 to redeem. My dealer said it was the largest he had seen. I had figured out we could purchase our groceries using the credit card and build up $$$$ fast.
You had a heck of a deal. I used my card exclusively and that's how I built up such a balance, hoping one day the "good" program would come back but it fell into the "all good things must come to an end" category.
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Andre, I'm kind of surprised a Ram isn't on that list either. Simply because of the Cummins diesel.
From my experience full-size pickups and SUVs while likely not any more reliable, certainly are more durable than most cars. They can take more of a beating simply due to being heavier duty.
Plus pickups have better resale value than most cars, so they're more likely to be repaired than junked at higher miles.
As many have said, this list is a function of how these vehicles are used as much as anything else.
I know several small business owners that drive Suburbans/Tahoes, other than that, I don't think they're large fleet sellers. Still, most people I know with Suburbans drive the hell out of them. Just as I do. Almost 11k on my Ram at 5 mos. old
Still no issues.
I remember hearing at one time that $3,500 was the max in my card's lifetime. I never had that much, but did have $3,000 a time or two when I bought.
You're way past me. I think I'm around 8300 miles, and that's at 17 months!
G.M. to Expand Small-Car Recall to 1.4 Million Vehicles
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/26/automobiles/gm-to-expand-small-car-recall-to-1-4-million-vehicles.html?hp&_r=0
That'll cover Michaell's Ion.
But I heard 1.6 million vehicles (13 fatalities). (mlive.com)
Since I paid to replace the ignition switch I should be able to file for a refund, correct?
Ha! Just found the receipt. The work was done on 7/11/12. Car had 71,825 miles on the odometer. I paid $228.76 for the repair.
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You should be reimbursed for that repair, no sweat I'd think.
Even with this expanded recall, they're still 700K fewer cars than this month's Toyota recall about cars stopping, but of course the big difference is no fatalities (yet) in theirs, unlike GM's. I did see that CBS attributed 89 fatalities to Toyota's unintended acceleration fiasco.
That was then; this is now, though. You won't see me bringing up any early 1970's recalls.
That was then....
In October 2012, GM recalled 40,859 cars in the U.S., including the 2007–2009 Cobalt and 2007–2009 G5, for cracking fuel pumps that could leak. That was an expansion of an earlier recall for the same problem in 2009. In March 2010, 1.3 million Cobalts from 2005–2010 and G5s from 2007–2010 were recalled worldwide for electric power steering that could suddenly shut down while driving.
....this is now.
DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Co, the biggest U.S. automaker, wants to avoid the recall of more than 200,000 of its new full-size Chevrolet and GMC pickup trucks, asking U.S. safety regulators to declare an electronic glitch as "inconsequential" to safety.
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The glitch can occur when the driver is using the steering wheel controls to search for a song and potentially cause the instrument panel lights to briefly go off or malfunction lights to briefly go on.
GM filed a petition with the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration last fall saying a recall of 200,921 Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra pickups from model year 2014 was not needed as the issue was rare and "inconsequential to motor vehicle safety".
You get angry when I post recalls that are larger than GM's, yet you continue to post ONLY GM recalls. Calling Dr. Freud! I really don't think you want anyone posting the many, many Toyota and Honda recalls of the last five years. And you never did answer my earlier question...is your Optima a turbo, one of those "worse than average reliability" models?
Soon, I'm sure, will be more TSB's from the 1980's posted, relating to Cobalts. LOL
I thought this was the discussion where the posters didn't want to post recalls.
There was a long tread of discussions about the was distracting from the topic.
ROFLMAO.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My take-away from the GM, Toyota and every other manufacturer recall history is this:
1- Every manufacturer will, at some point, have recalls. Many of these recalls will be hotly contested by the manufacturer. Some recalls will be serious... Others insignificant.
2- The nationality of the manufacturer has far less to do with the recall than the costs of the recall to the manufacturer performing the recall.
Anything else, as to regarding who has the more significant/serious recall is just an entry into some sort of measuring contest. The laws of physics recognize no boundaries between manufacturers.
True, but that has historically here been so often a one-sided argument. When the balance swings the other way, cries of "this really doesn't add to the discussion" crop up.
There isn't a balance to swing. Recalls are a fact of automotive life and are not calculated in the reliability of vehicles. Could we just move on. And, if ever anybody brings it into the discussion again, could we ignore it. There is no need to leap to any automaker's defense.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
There's no "balance"---recalls happen to automaker X, then they happen to Y, then Z gets lucky and has none for 3 months, then Z gets clobbered and X and Y are quiet---recalls are like the weather. If you try to defend or to criticize a company based solely on the number of recalls, you'll drive yourself (and most other people) crazy, because it's not logical.
I could argue, quite soundly, that the company to most worry about is the one with no recalls.
The only real way to judge a car company's success is by how many people buy their products.
No car company ever went broke making cars that people like.
I think it takes more than a desirable product for a company to stay in business. Managing costs and investments, for one.
Ask GM and Chrysler!
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Of course but product desirability is the foundation of everything.
Betamax and cassette tape recording equipment were both made by competent companies that successfully ran their businesses. And, they were excellent products, well made and suited to their target markets.
Regardless how efficient those business centers were run, though, VHS and CD easily eclipsed them, because the buying public identified those as better products. Beta and VHS did the same thing (in fact, Beta was a slightly higher quality), but VHS out-marketed Beta with an extra hour of recording time (5 .vs. 6 hours).
Without a desirable product, everything else is irrelevant.
Good-Bye Insight:
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1402-report-honda-insight-ends-production/
You know, that Insight was a nice driving car!
GM has, so far, acted quickly in trying to take the fall for faulty ignition switches that are being blamed for accidents that claimed the lives of 13 people. After an initial recall Feb. 13, it more than doubled the number of vehicles involved to 1.37 million with a new recall Monday.
It also apologized, a move by GM that Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety, says hasn't happened for decades.
By contrast, Toyota let its debacle drag on and on, capped by congressional hearings.
There are similarities between GM and Toyota's recalls. Both involved loss of life. Both involved expanded, or in the case of Toyota, multiple expanded recalls. But so far GM appears to have acted more decisively. Ditlow, for instance, credits GM's recall actions over the past two weeks, but faults GM for issuing a service bulletin, instead of a recall, in 2006 when it identified the problems in the Cobalt and knew how to fix them.
Here are nine missed chances to act sooner revealed in the chronology:
• 2004, GM could have fixed this before it sold a single Cobalt: GM concedes it knew in 2004, before launching the 2005 Chevrolet Cobalt, that the ignition switch might inadvertently move from "run" to "accessory," stalling the engine and cutting power to safety systems. A company engineer had the problem testing the soon-to-be-launched car and engineers proposed several solutions, but because of "lead time required, cost, and effectiveness of each" solution, none was adopted and the car went on sale with the faulty switch.
• 2005, a partial fix was proposed -- but not adopted. Engineers suggested a simple change in the key from a slot to a round hole to ease stress on the switch -- a solution GM later adopted – but initial approval later was canceled. It did send dealers a bulletin telling them to modify existing keys with an insert and to tell owners to take extra items off their keychains -- but only if customers came in complaining of stalling problem on the Cobalt. Only 474 owners got the inserts, GM warranty data showed.
• 2005, GM knew it wasn't just the Cobalt with the risk. Later that year, an updated bulletin was sent to dealers, expanding the models and years of vehicles involved – including all built with the same switch. Those are now the vehicles and models years recalled in the past two weeks.
• 2006, GM OK'd a better switch, but didn't make it so mechanics could identify it. The engineer in charge of the ignition switch approved a new design by supplier Delphi, but the new design continued to use the same part number as the one it replaced. That means it wouldn't have been obvious to the company or to a dealer or repair shop whether a switch was the older design or the, presumably safer, newer configuration.
• 2007, new switch goes in new cars? GM believes -- but says in the chronology that it is not sure when -- that during this vehicle model year the improved switch finally was being used on the assembly line for new cars.
• 2007, GM gets first report of fatal crash. Federal safety officials tell GM that a 2005 fatal Cobalt crash involved a switch that malfunctioned and airbags that failed to deploy. GM said it didn't know about the crash until informed by the officials. And only then does GM assign an engineer to track Cobalt crashes where the airbags fails.
• 2009, GM finally adopts new key design from 2005. Keys now are made in the way first proposed in 2005 -- with a hole and not a slot.
• 2013, GM determines the original switch wasn't made right. GM determines, now years after the fact, that the switches made before the 2006 modifications failed to meets its design specifications.
• 2014, at last a recall -- and then another. On Feb. 13 GM recalls the Cobalt and nearly identical Pontiac G5 -- less than half the cars using the potentially faulty ignition switch. On Feb. 25, it adds the rest of the vehicles with the part -- all those mentioned back in the years-earlier heads-up to dealers. All 1.62 million throughout North America will get a new ignition switch to make sure the car doesn't stall and lose its airbags.
Was the second-gen Insight a nice driving car, or was that the first one, the 2-seater? I heard that the second-gen was pretty mediocre in most respects. Never drove one, though. But, Hondas usually drive a bit nicer than Toyotas, so maybe it was still a better driving car than a Prius?
yes, 1st generation. I remember how surprised I was. I never drove the 2nd gen.
February Car Sales Struggle to Break the Cold Winter Ice
Its tough to get fired up about going out to do car shopping when you need a pair of ice skates just to navigate the new car lot...
It's been hard to get my wife interested in car shopping because of the cold.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
More GM news....
General Motors has really taken it on the chin this week with the recall of over 1.3-million cars and a separate potential safety issue found in over 200,000 of its 2014 pickups. Things aren't getting any better, because now questions are being raised about the early sales success of its new trucks. Barclays Capital analyst Brian Johnson tells Automotive News, "the launch has been arguably the least successful large pickup launch over the last 15 years."
Probably due to the bad weather regarding the lower launch sales. You couldn't even see the cars/trucks around central NJ for a few weeks because the dealers couldn't keep the snow off of them.
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/27/barclays-says-gm-truck-launch-least-successful-in-15-years/
It's going to be interesting to see how drivers, truckers and everyone involved in transportation, are going to deal in the future with climate extremes on an unprecedented scale.
Makes me wonder if cars in the near future will be designed to be more "rugged" and climate-proof. Hey, maybe I've stumbled on the answer to why there's been a surge in SUV and truck sales?
Under pressure....
Barclays’ Brian A. Johnson and team sum up General Motors’ predicament: