@uplanderguy said:
I buy new, except have bought used for my two daughters' cars. I just don't buy expensive new cars.
See, those of us who are often called "cheap" economize in different ways. In the early days I bought used, now I mostly buy new. I don't necessarily buy cheaper cars, but I do drive them a long, long time. Just under 10 years on my Acura TL which I bought new, and at 140K miles. Expect to go at least 2-3 more years on it, maybe more. So I save by paying quite a bit but not doing it very often. You save by buying inexpensively. Others save by buying used. And then others help our economy by buying new every few years!
I think GM appears to be coming out with some very nice new cars. But GM doesn't have the cash to redo all their older problem children for awhile. So they need to start spending some dollars fixing long ongoing issues with some of these. Crossovers for example, how long since they've been out that they still seem to have some serious deficiency issues in the blogs on things like Stabilitak, oil consumption or steering racks. You can't keep having these same failures year after year and not expect many consumers to be reluctant to purchase your newly released models. If a vehicle came out in 2007 or 2009, there really is no excuse for customers to still experience the same deficiencies in recently manufactured versions. Think Acadia or Equinox. Sure Toyota or Honda have some problems that can be serious, and maybe they do get a break in the media, but you don't seem to see the same issues continuing 3 or 4 years down the road after they first occurred. That's inexcusable on GM's part. You need to take care of your current customers if you want to grow new ones.
I believe CR recommends at least the Traverse, for testing and from their reliability survey. I have no reason to believe a same-year Buick or GMC would be any different.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Well, the other competitors made better cars than GM.....THAT makes the competition's product better. That's why they put a hurtin' on GM's market share over the last few decades. GM had "Failure" in it's DNA....and so it goes.
Simple as that. No fancy inuendo needed. Just fact.
The Ody tranny problems were primarily the first several years out and were mostly resolved by a change to the '04. The VCM, I'd be just as reluctant right now to buy a 6 cylinder Honda with VCM as a GM with Stabilitrak. I think CR got a little touchy about the pro import complaints and over the last several years now recommend most anything with an overall average rating. I keep vehicles for awhile so I try to immerse in the different blogs as well as things like CR or JDP before I buy. Honda apparently claims they extended coverage for these VCM issues for those who followed maintenance and that those that were declined had not provided evidence of maintaining the vehicle IAW the owner's manual. Don't personally know if all of that is true though. Honda does seem to have some goodwill out there still based on past experiences. Unfortunately, GM blew theirs a long time ago. They really need to reestablish it now.
But the real point I was trying to make is that with the much improved product coming out, GM needs to figure out a fix to things like Stabilitrak that have been ongoing issues for somewhere around at least 5 years now because it's hurting the new models they are introducing. Fair or not, past experiences make many potential buyers scared to go back. If GM is really going to be a "new" company with a "no more crappy cars" focus, they need to show they are serious by getting a fix and doing a recall, or at least extending the warranty for these apparently known problems. BTW, as I understand it, Stabilitrak used to be part of the standard extended drivetrain warranty limits, but was later eliminated from inclusion. Not smart when you don't have much goodwill in the market anymore. Gotta make consumers comfortable with your product quality and durability when they are plunking down $30K + these days.
However, what does all this slick PR matter if nothing changes when the women enter the showroom at the dealership?
As one woman wrote in (after reading this article)....(paraphrasing) "when I went to the dealership, the salesman asked me when my husband would be in to look at the car".
On my iphone, I see the same red x but on my pc the image appears. It basically shows 2009 - 22011 frequency of repairs going from very high in 2009 to average in 2011.
GM knew of Cobalt ignition problem in 2004, lawsuit claims
General Motors knew in 2004, a decade before it issued a recall, that its Chevrolet Cobalt had an ignition switch that could inadvertently shut off the engine while driving, according to depositions in a civil lawsuit against GM. The stall also would cut off the driver's power steering and brakes, as well as safety systems such as airbags and anti-lock brakes.
At least one GM engineer had the problem while testing the new car, which went on sale in 2004 as a 2005 model, say documents obtained by USA TODAY from the lawsuit over a crash that killed pediatric nurse Brooke Melton. She died in 2010, on her 29th birthday, in the Cobalt she bought new in 2005.
Maybe it's just me, but shouldn't a driver be able to stay in control of a car when the ignition turns off? And she's driving 58 mph on a two-lane in the rain at night? And she got whacked by another car who sued HER estate for negligence?
I looked already, thanks anyway circle. 2008 and 2009 weren't on the list. Was the Optima discontinued and re-introduced, or maybe didn't they have sufficient data, I don't know.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
@MrShift@Edmunds said:
Maybe it's just me, but shouldn't a driver be able to stay in control of a car when the ignition turns off? And she's driving 58 mph on a two-lane in the rain at night? And she got whacked by another car who sued HER estate for negligence?
The only excuse I can come up with is if the ignition suddenly cut off just as a sharp curve was coming up, or something. Sounds to me though, like she panicked when it cut off, and that probably caused the accident.
My old 2000 Intrepid went through a period where it would intermittently cut off. I still remember the first time it happened; I was doing about 40 mph, in traffic, on a 2-lane road. I immediately put on my flashers, used the momentum to pull off the road and come to a stop. And then I turned the key and it fired right back up.
Then, it didn't do it for awhile, but the problem came back with a vengeance. It got to the point that I was real good at throwing it in neutral, turning it back on, and then popping it back into drive. You don't need power steering at driving speeds, it really only comes in handy in tight maneuvering, such as parking and so forth. Brakes can be an issue though...once your power reserve goes out, it can take a lot of effort to stop a modern car. Old drum brake cars weren't so bad...heck, I knew an old lady who drove a two-ton '67 Newport with manual drum brakes, and if her petite self could handle it, anyone could. But once they went to disc/drum setups, it took a lot more effort to stop. I guess all-disc are even worse when you lose the boost?
Now, years ago, I was driving my uncle's '88 LeBaron turbo coupe and ran out of gas (bad fuel gauge and a trip computer that would lie through its teeth). Initially I didn't know why it cut out, so my first instinct was to put it in neutral and try turning it off and on again, but I turned back too far and accidentally locked the steering column while driving. That was a bit scary! And in those days, most of my driving was done on a '68 Dart, '67 Catalina, and occasionally a '57 DeSoto, so I think my mind had conveniently forgotten that steering columns lock on more modern cars! Oops!
Well certainly when the engine cuts off, the steering gets a lot harder, and after a few pumps, the brake pedal will get very hard to press--so yeah, it's possible if you are on a turn when this happens, and your reflexes aren't sharp enough, you could understeer on a turn.
I'm being presumptuous, but as an owner of two Cobalts, it's hard for me to imagine the ignition switch moving enough from 'run' to 'lock' by itself. 'Run' to 'on', OK.
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@uplanderguy said:
I'm being presumptuous, but as an owner of two Cobalts, it's hard for me to imagine the
ignition switch moving enough from 'run' to 'lock' by itself. 'Run' to 'on', OK.
That doesn't seem to be the issue. The causes cited are travel over a very bumpy road or a heavy key chain. I'm guessing the ignition switch is strained and cuts power to the engine.
@MrShift@Edmunds said:
Maybe it's just me, but shouldn't a driver be able to stay in control of a car when the ignition turns off? And she's driving 58 mph on a two-lane in the rain at night?
Alcohol may have been involved in some of the other ~21 crashes and five other deaths.
What gets me is GM's statement that the "crashes occurred under unusual circumstances in which the cars were being driven across dirt and rough terrain. Neither model was designed to be an off-road vehicle."
That sounds like a crock. I bet most of these wrecks weren't from people driving in "rally mode" out in the woods somewhere.
Uh, circle, I'm not seeing 2012 and 2013 Malibu reliability on True Data. Maybe you can post what you're seeing. And for 2011, the difference between Malibu and Optima is insignificant enough that they are both rated "average". In the April '13 CR, only one I have handy, the '11 and '12 Malibu 4 cyl. are both 'better than average', and the '11 Optima 4 cyl. is better-than-average but the '12 is average. The '11 turbo is worse-than-average, the '12 much-better-than-average (snickering here at that difference between '11 and '12).
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Gm suggesting to only use the key alone in the ignition is a bunch of crap. I have a hard enough time keeping track of one set of keys. Then again I don't have a bunch of keys plus a fuzzy bear and mace hanging from my keychain either;)
Loosing power steering at the wrong time can be a big deal. My grandpa totaled a 69 or so Catalina when the PS failed on an on ramp and he ended up on the guard rail. I guess it wasn't totaled when he put it on the rail, but the tow truck finished it off trying to get it free.
The difference between 35 and 41 is insignificant enough per them to make any difference in rating...both are 'average'. Thank you for confirming that unlike what your first post said, there is no information on the '12 and '13 Malibu to report on. That may mean there are no complaints.
Interesting to note that there is no differentiation in results to split out four versus six, or four versus turbo four (especially troublesome at least per CR).
You'd have to show me something humongous to make me move from an American-built, American-sourced car from an American company, to switch to something that, first, looks like the Optima, tests like the Optima in CR, and is from a Korea-owned company.
As is so often the case, I'm stating what the whole story is, not leaving parts out. The only year which an Optima could be compared on True Data to a Malibu, was 2011, not the years your post initially reported. Shocker.
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Lawyer asks feds to force GM to explain recall timing
The federal safety agency officially has been asked to require General Motors to explain why it only now has recalled 619,122 U.S.-market 2005-2007 Chevrolet Cobalt and similar 2007 Pontiac G5 cars to replace faulty ignition switches blamed for at least six deaths.
No sense reporting on the "reliability" of a 2013 car. If a 2013 car is showing up with bad numbers that early in the game, that company is headed for the graveyard anyway.
JD Powers only seems to use 2011 for 'reliability studies" and doesn't show the worst performers, only the "awardees" for best marks. Malibu didn't make the cut, but Buick and the Chevy Volt did.
What I meant was that 2012 isn't very meaningful unless it's truly awful. Just about any car made today can run 24,000 miles without falling flat on its face (we hope).
You'd think--but with more and more electronics, most of which are operating in a very hostile environment, I think we'll be seeing more glitches per 50K, not fewer.
Under current law, automakers are required to report safety defects to the NHTSA within five days of discovering them. Failure to do so carries a maximum fine of $35 million. Last year, Ford had to pay the maximum fine, at the time, of $17.4 million for not promptly recalling Ford Escape SUVs with gas pedals that could become stuck. The fine was increased in October of 2013. Toyota has also had to pay large fines for not promptly reporting safety issues.
Ordinarily, when an automaker informs NHTSA that it intends to recall cars, a detailed chronology of events leading up to the recall is part of the information provided. In the case of the Cobalt recall, GM does not indicate when it first knew of the problem.
GM is expected to provide a detailed chronology of the issue soon.
Lance Cooper also added that Melton’s car was not equipped with the modified key GM used for the TSB #05-02-35-007A repair, despite having just left the dealership for ignition cylinder repair.
Full text of TSB#05-02-35-007A and a full understanding of TSBs below:
#05-02-35-007A : Information on Inadvertent Turning of Key Cylinder, Loss of Electrical System and No DTCs – (Oct 25, 2006)
Subject: Information on Inadvertent Turning of Key Cylinder, Loss of Electrical Systems and No DTCs [DTC stands for Diagnostic Trouble Codes]
Models:
2005–2007 Chevrolet Cobalt
2005–2007 Chevrolet HHR
2005–2006 Pontiac Pursuit (Canada Only)
2007 Pontiac G5
2006–2007 Pontiac Solstice
2003–2007 Saturn Ion
2007 Saturn Sky
This bulletin is being revised to add a model year. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 05-02-35-007 (Section 02 — Steering).
There is potential for the driver to inadvertently turn off the ignition due to low ignition key torque/effort.
The concern is more likely to occur if the driver is short and has a large and/or heavy key chain. In these cases, this condition was documented and the driver’s knee would contact the key chain while the vehicle was turning and the steering column was adjusted all the way down. This is more likely to happen to a person who is short, as they will have the seat positioned closer to the the steering column.
In cases that fit this profile, question the customer thoroughly to determine if this may [be] the cause. The customer should be advised of this potential and should take steps to prevent it — such as removing unessential items from their key chain.
Engineering has come up with an insert for the key ring so that it goes from a “slot” design to a hole design. As a result, the key ring cannot move up and down in the slot any longer – it can only rotate on the hole. In addition, the previous key ring has been replaced with a smaller, 13 mm (0.5 in) design. This will result in the keys not hanging as low as in the past.
Part Number: 15842334
Description: Cover, Dr Lk & Ign Lk Key
@circlew, the new system got confused about your last post. Guess it looked spammy to the computer and it got flagged and wouldn't let you post it. We've "restored" it.
Back to heavy key chains, this isn't all that new of an issue.
I've had several cars where you could remove the key while it was running. My '67 Catalina and '79 New Yorker are that way. I also had an '82 Cutlass Supreme that was like that. One of my friends actually told me that on the Cutlass of that era, he had read that it was actually a "feature"?! I don't think that's right...
At one point, I had replaced the ignition in my '68 Dart with one from a '65 or so Barracuda out of the junkyard. I did that because the Dart's driver's door had been replaced at some point, and I needed a separate key for the door and ignition. Well, this junkyard Barracuda still had the key in the ignition, so I got its ignition cylinder, as well as the door lock cylinder, and put them on my Dart. And, that Barracuda ignition would let you pull out the key while it was running, too.
@MrShift@Edmunds said:
You'd think--but with more and more electronics, most of which are operating in a very hostile environment, I think we'll be seeing more glitches per 50K, not fewer.
You'd think, but new tech is mostly very reliable. Look at how complex today's cars are versus in say, the '70s, yet the older cars were far less reliable than today.
I'd agree with that tlong, except that things that happen today are far more complex and expensive to fix. Not too much 'shadetree' mechanic-ing going on today, unfortunately.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
that's a good point---your car goes down less often, but usually for a longer period of time, and with a greater chance of not being fixed the first time.
"Mexico is on track to become the United States' No. 1 source of imported cars by the end of next year, overtaking Japan and Canada in a manufacturing boom that's turning the auto industry into a bigger source of dollars than money sent home by migrants.
Mexico's government and the car industry say the automotive industry has become the primary source of foreign currency for Mexico, surpassing oil exports and remittances from immigrants in the United States.
Well, it might feel like it costs more to repair the"complex fix" but not really. My Mom's 1966 Pontiac LeMans cost $3,000 and now would cost $21,600. No A/C and roll-up windows included!
So, if a major repair like a transmission change in 1966 was about $500, today would be about $3,600.
Well maybe you can go 14 rounds without having a glove laid on you, but then you can still get KO'd in the 15th. Now that car loans are written for 72 months, which often exceeds any warranty, a major engine or transmission failure could force someone to just give up on the car.
I've never had the experience, but it must be most unpleasant to be paying $450 a month on a car while paying off a $5000 engine bill.
Shifty - I took a 72-month note ta pay off my '08 Lancer GTS, and you're right, am I ever glad the tranny, motor, O2 sensors and everything else has stayed rockin' right on the beautiful Japanese rig!
Comments
CR liked the Chevy Malibu better than the Fusion and several imports, but the public hasn't gotten the word yet.
See, those of us who are often called "cheap" economize in different ways. In the early days I bought used, now I mostly buy new. I don't necessarily buy cheaper cars, but I do drive them a long, long time. Just under 10 years on my Acura TL which I bought new, and at 140K miles. Expect to go at least 2-3 more years on it, maybe more. So I save by paying quite a bit but not doing it very often. You save by buying inexpensively. Others save by buying used. And then others help our economy by buying new every few years!
I think GM appears to be coming out with some very nice new cars. But GM doesn't have the cash to redo all their older problem children for awhile. So they need to start spending some dollars fixing long ongoing issues with some of these. Crossovers for example, how long since they've been out that they still seem to have some serious deficiency issues in the blogs on things like Stabilitak, oil consumption or steering racks. You can't keep having these same failures year after year and not expect many consumers to be reluctant to purchase your newly released models. If a vehicle came out in 2007 or 2009, there really is no excuse for customers to still experience the same deficiencies in recently manufactured versions. Think Acadia or Equinox. Sure Toyota or Honda have some problems that can be serious, and maybe they do get a break in the media, but you don't seem to see the same issues continuing 3 or 4 years down the road after they first occurred. That's inexcusable on GM's part. You need to take care of your current customers if you want to grow new ones.
I believe CR recommends at least the Traverse, for testing and from their reliability survey. I have no reason to believe a same-year Buick or GMC would be any different.
Well, the other competitors made better cars than GM.....THAT makes the competition's product better. That's why they put a hurtin' on GM's market share over the last few decades. GM had "Failure" in it's DNA....and so it goes.
Simple as that. No fancy inuendo needed. Just fact.
.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Ody tranny problems were primarily the first several years out and were mostly resolved by a change to the '04. The VCM, I'd be just as reluctant right now to buy a 6 cylinder Honda with VCM as a GM with Stabilitrak. I think CR got a little touchy about the pro import complaints and over the last several years now recommend most anything with an overall average rating. I keep vehicles for awhile so I try to immerse in the different blogs as well as things like CR or JDP before I buy. Honda apparently claims they extended coverage for these VCM issues for those who followed maintenance and that those that were declined had not provided evidence of maintaining the vehicle IAW the owner's manual. Don't personally know if all of that is true though. Honda does seem to have some goodwill out there still based on past experiences. Unfortunately, GM blew theirs a long time ago. They really need to reestablish it now.
But the real point I was trying to make is that with the much improved product coming out, GM needs to figure out a fix to things like Stabilitrak that have been ongoing issues for somewhere around at least 5 years now because it's hurting the new models they are introducing. Fair or not, past experiences make many potential buyers scared to go back. If GM is really going to be a "new" company with a "no more crappy cars" focus, they need to show they are serious by getting a fix and doing a recall, or at least extending the warranty for these apparently known problems. BTW, as I understand it, Stabilitrak used to be part of the standard extended drivetrain warranty limits, but was later eliminated from inclusion. Not smart when you don't have much goodwill in the market anymore. Gotta make consumers comfortable with your product quality and durability when they are plunking down $30K + these days.
Here's an interesting case in point about GM:
On the one hand, Cadillac is making a move that the other GM marques are not making--a strategy to change public perception of their "buyer base":
http://www.fastcompany.com/3024805/most-creative-people/cadillacs-fashion-driven-play-to-attract-young-women
However, what does all this slick PR matter if nothing changes when the women enter the showroom at the dealership?
As one woman wrote in (after reading this article)....(paraphrasing) "when I went to the dealership, the salesman asked me when my husband would be in to look at the car".
Can you guess what happened to THAT sale?
Just saw this on the Malibu from TrueDelta:
All I see is a little red "X".
On my iphone, I see the same red x but on my pc the image appears. It basically shows 2009 - 22011 frequency of repairs going from very high in 2009 to average in 2011.
GM knew of Cobalt ignition problem in 2004, lawsuit claims
General Motors knew in 2004, a decade before it issued a recall, that its Chevrolet Cobalt had an ignition switch that could inadvertently shut off the engine while driving, according to depositions in a civil lawsuit against GM. The stall also would cut off the driver's power steering and brakes, as well as safety systems such as airbags and anti-lock brakes.
At least one GM engineer had the problem while testing the new car, which went on sale in 2004 as a 2005 model, say documents obtained by USA TODAY from the lawsuit over a crash that killed pediatric nurse Brooke Melton. She died in 2010, on her 29th birthday, in the Cobalt she bought new in 2005.
http://usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/02/18/gm-cobalt-g5-faulty-ignition-switches-recall-deaths-airbags/5582241/
The courts will decide, as always.
Can you post the same information for 2009-2011 Optimas?
Later on today
Maybe it's just me, but shouldn't a driver be able to stay in control of a car when the ignition turns off? And she's driving 58 mph on a two-lane in the rain at night? And she got whacked by another car who sued HER estate for negligence?
I looked already, thanks anyway circle. 2008 and 2009 weren't on the list. Was the Optima discontinued and re-introduced, or maybe didn't they have sufficient data, I don't know.
The only excuse I can come up with is if the ignition suddenly cut off just as a sharp curve was coming up, or something. Sounds to me though, like she panicked when it cut off, and that probably caused the accident.
My old 2000 Intrepid went through a period where it would intermittently cut off. I still remember the first time it happened; I was doing about 40 mph, in traffic, on a 2-lane road. I immediately put on my flashers, used the momentum to pull off the road and come to a stop. And then I turned the key and it fired right back up.
Then, it didn't do it for awhile, but the problem came back with a vengeance. It got to the point that I was real good at throwing it in neutral, turning it back on, and then popping it back into drive. You don't need power steering at driving speeds, it really only comes in handy in tight maneuvering, such as parking and so forth. Brakes can be an issue though...once your power reserve goes out, it can take a lot of effort to stop a modern car. Old drum brake cars weren't so bad...heck, I knew an old lady who drove a two-ton '67 Newport with manual drum brakes, and if her petite self could handle it, anyone could. But once they went to disc/drum setups, it took a lot more effort to stop. I guess all-disc are even worse when you lose the boost?
Now, years ago, I was driving my uncle's '88 LeBaron turbo coupe and ran out of gas (bad fuel gauge and a trip computer that would lie through its teeth). Initially I didn't know why it cut out, so my first instinct was to put it in neutral and try turning it off and on again, but I turned back too far and accidentally locked the steering column while driving. That was a bit scary! And in those days, most of my driving was done on a '68 Dart, '67 Catalina, and occasionally a '57 DeSoto, so I think my mind had conveniently forgotten that steering columns lock on more modern cars! Oops!
I had the impression from something I read that the ignition didn't just cut off, but perhaps the steering wheel locked?
Well certainly when the engine cuts off, the steering gets a lot harder, and after a few pumps, the brake pedal will get very hard to press--so yeah, it's possible if you are on a turn when this happens, and your reflexes aren't sharp enough, you could understeer on a turn.
I'm being presumptuous, but as an owner of two Cobalts, it's hard for me to imagine the ignition switch moving enough from 'run' to 'lock' by itself. 'Run' to 'on', OK.
That doesn't seem to be the issue. The causes cited are travel over a very bumpy road or a heavy key chain. I'm guessing the ignition switch is strained and cuts power to the engine.
Kia Optima Reliability 2011-2013: TrueDelta - Better than the 'Bu.
Alcohol may have been involved in some of the other ~21 crashes and five other deaths.
What gets me is GM's statement that the "crashes occurred under unusual circumstances in which the cars were being driven across dirt and rough terrain. Neither model was designed to be an off-road vehicle."
That sounds like a crock. I bet most of these wrecks weren't from people driving in "rally mode" out in the woods somewhere.
GM recalls Chevrolet Cobalt, Pontiac G5 after fatal accidents (LA Times)
Uh, circle, I'm not seeing 2012 and 2013 Malibu reliability on True Data. Maybe you can post what you're seeing. And for 2011, the difference between Malibu and Optima is insignificant enough that they are both rated "average". In the April '13 CR, only one I have handy, the '11 and '12 Malibu 4 cyl. are both 'better than average', and the '11 Optima 4 cyl. is better-than-average but the '12 is average. The '11 turbo is worse-than-average, the '12 much-better-than-average (snickering here at that difference between '11 and '12).
The repair frequency on TrueDelta is as follows: (less is better)
2013 Optima = 18
2009 Malibu = 78
Can't see the other years.
Gm suggesting to only use the key alone in the ignition is a bunch of crap. I have a hard enough time keeping track of one set of keys. Then again I don't have a bunch of keys plus a fuzzy bear and mace hanging from my keychain either;)
Loosing power steering at the wrong time can be a big deal. My grandpa totaled a 69 or so Catalina when the PS failed on an on ramp and he ended up on the guard rail. I guess it wasn't totaled when he put it on the rail, but the tow truck finished it off trying to get it free.
The difference between 35 and 41 is insignificant enough per them to make any difference in rating...both are 'average'. Thank you for confirming that unlike what your first post said, there is no information on the '12 and '13 Malibu to report on. That may mean there are no complaints.
Interesting to note that there is no differentiation in results to split out four versus six, or four versus turbo four (especially troublesome at least per CR).
You'd have to show me something humongous to make me move from an American-built, American-sourced car from an American company, to switch to something that, first, looks like the Optima, tests like the Optima in CR, and is from a Korea-owned company.
As is so often the case, I'm stating what the whole story is, not leaving parts out. The only year which an Optima could be compared on True Data to a Malibu, was 2011, not the years your post initially reported. Shocker.
Better is better. I'm sure there are no complaints for the '13 Malibu except that it lost so many sales due to the botched launch.
Anyway, no more crappy cars is the line in the sand for 2013. Anything before that I can understand is from the "Old GM" stable and could be junk.
BTW, I originally posted the Malibu by itself. Shocker you brought up the Optima.
Lawyer asks feds to force GM to explain recall timing
The federal safety agency officially has been asked to require General Motors to explain why it only now has recalled 619,122 U.S.-market 2005-2007 Chevrolet Cobalt and similar 2007 Pontiac G5 cars to replace faulty ignition switches blamed for at least six deaths.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/02/19/gm-recall-airbags-switches-fatalities-nhtsa/5621405/
GM withheld a defect???????? SHOCKER!
The hard fact is that you, as you so often do, left our very relevant information in your post.
No sense reporting on the "reliability" of a 2013 car. If a 2013 car is showing up with bad numbers that early in the game, that company is headed for the graveyard anyway.
JD Powers only seems to use 2011 for 'reliability studies" and doesn't show the worst performers, only the "awardees" for best marks. Malibu didn't make the cut, but Buick and the Chevy Volt did.
A 2012 car is two years old; it should be there.
GM withheld a defect???????? SHOCKER!
We'll see if they are fined for that, as was Toyota. You seemed to gloss over that.
What I meant was that 2012 isn't very meaningful unless it's truly awful. Just about any car made today can run 24,000 miles without falling flat on its face (we hope).
True that!
Almost any car should be able to go 50K with virtually no problems, and 100K with only minor to perhaps one slightly greater problem.
You'd think--but with more and more electronics, most of which are operating in a very hostile environment, I think we'll be seeing more glitches per 50K, not fewer.
More info on the GM Holdback lawsuit....
Under current law, automakers are required to report safety defects to the NHTSA within five days of discovering them. Failure to do so carries a maximum fine of $35 million. Last year, Ford had to pay the maximum fine, at the time, of $17.4 million for not promptly recalling Ford Escape SUVs with gas pedals that could become stuck. The fine was increased in October of 2013. Toyota has also had to pay large fines for not promptly reporting safety issues.
Ordinarily, when an automaker informs NHTSA that it intends to recall cars, a detailed chronology of events leading up to the recall is part of the information provided. In the case of the Cobalt recall, GM does not indicate when it first knew of the problem.
GM is expected to provide a detailed chronology of the issue soon.
Lance Cooper also added that Melton’s car was not equipped with the modified key GM used for the TSB #05-02-35-007A repair, despite having just left the dealership for ignition cylinder repair.
Full text of TSB#05-02-35-007A and a full understanding of TSBs below:
#05-02-35-007A : Information on Inadvertent Turning of Key Cylinder, Loss of Electrical System and No DTCs – (Oct 25, 2006) Subject: Information on Inadvertent Turning of Key Cylinder, Loss of Electrical Systems and No DTCs [DTC stands for Diagnostic Trouble Codes] Models: 2005–2007 Chevrolet Cobalt 2005–2007 Chevrolet HHR 2005–2006 Pontiac Pursuit (Canada Only) 2007 Pontiac G5 2006–2007 Pontiac Solstice 2003–2007 Saturn Ion 2007 Saturn Sky This bulletin is being revised to add a model year. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 05-02-35-007 (Section 02 — Steering). There is potential for the driver to inadvertently turn off the ignition due to low ignition key torque/effort. The concern is more likely to occur if the driver is short and has a large and/or heavy key chain. In these cases, this condition was documented and the driver’s knee would contact the key chain while the vehicle was turning and the steering column was adjusted all the way down. This is more likely to happen to a person who is short, as they will have the seat positioned closer to the the steering column. In cases that fit this profile, question the customer thoroughly to determine if this may [be] the cause. The customer should be advised of this potential and should take steps to prevent it — such as removing unessential items from their key chain. Engineering has come up with an insert for the key ring so that it goes from a “slot” design to a hole design. As a result, the key ring cannot move up and down in the slot any longer – it can only rotate on the hole. In addition, the previous key ring has been replaced with a smaller, 13 mm (0.5 in) design. This will result in the keys not hanging as low as in the past. Part Number: 15842334 Description: Cover, Dr Lk & Ign Lk Key@circlew, the new system got confused about your last post. Guess it looked spammy to the computer and it got flagged and wouldn't let you post it. We've "restored" it.
Back to heavy key chains, this isn't all that new of an issue.
2001 Chevy Impala. I can remove the key while the car is running. How does that happen? ("Extra weight from a lot of keys and junk on the key ring can do damage.")
2009 VW Jetta key gets stuck in the ignition. Won't start or turn. ("it would be strange that the key or ignition would be worn out on a 2009 model, unless you hang many keys off the key ring and put pressure on the switch.")
99 Honda Odyssey engine stall. While driving the green key light flashes on dash and car dies. ("A heavy key chain with many keys or a heavy fob will slowly wear out the ignition switch after so many miles.")
I've had several cars where you could remove the key while it was running. My '67 Catalina and '79 New Yorker are that way. I also had an '82 Cutlass Supreme that was like that. One of my friends actually told me that on the Cutlass of that era, he had read that it was actually a "feature"?! I don't think that's right...
At one point, I had replaced the ignition in my '68 Dart with one from a '65 or so Barracuda out of the junkyard. I did that because the Dart's driver's door had been replaced at some point, and I needed a separate key for the door and ignition. Well, this junkyard Barracuda still had the key in the ignition, so I got its ignition cylinder, as well as the door lock cylinder, and put them on my Dart. And, that Barracuda ignition would let you pull out the key while it was running, too.
I did that one time on the family VW Bus. Wasn't in the off position when I pulled the key out. Key came out - as did the entire lock cylinder LOL.
You'd think, but new tech is mostly very reliable. Look at how complex today's cars are versus in say, the '70s, yet the older cars were far less reliable than today.
I'd agree with that tlong, except that things that happen today are far more complex and expensive to fix. Not too much 'shadetree' mechanic-ing going on today, unfortunately.
that's a good point---your car goes down less often, but usually for a longer period of time, and with a greater chance of not being fixed the first time.
"Mexico is on track to become the United States' No. 1 source of imported cars by the end of next year, overtaking Japan and Canada in a manufacturing boom that's turning the auto industry into a bigger source of dollars than money sent home by migrants.
Mexico's government and the car industry say the automotive industry has become the primary source of foreign currency for Mexico, surpassing oil exports and remittances from immigrants in the United States.
Mexico to trump Japan as No. 2 car exporter to US (adn.com)
Well, it might feel like it costs more to repair the"complex fix" but not really. My Mom's 1966 Pontiac LeMans cost $3,000 and now would cost $21,600. No A/C and roll-up windows included!
So, if a major repair like a transmission change in 1966 was about $500, today would be about $3,600.
Well maybe you can go 14 rounds without having a glove laid on you, but then you can still get KO'd in the 15th. Now that car loans are written for 72 months, which often exceeds any warranty, a major engine or transmission failure could force someone to just give up on the car.
I've never had the experience, but it must be most unpleasant to be paying $450 a month on a car while paying off a $5000 engine bill.
Shifty - I took a 72-month note ta pay off my '08 Lancer GTS, and you're right, am I ever glad the tranny, motor, O2 sensors and everything else has stayed rockin' right on the beautiful Japanese rig!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick