@suydam said:
Because there have been some problems with the V6, not the 4 cyl. And what's up with the recent news that GM has halted all production of the 1.4 Chevy Cruze????? I thought that was supposed to be a pretty good car.
Hi suydam,
If you'd like to private message us with your VIN and contact information, I would be glad to address any of your questions to the best of my ability.
I think it's great that an automaker's customer service group is on this forum. I hope others are doing this besides GM. Kudos to GM for this (assuming Amber is legitimate of course).
The stop sale order is for 2013 and 2014 model year Cruze sedans with the gasoline turbocharged engine, not the diesel version, said Alan Adler, a GM spokesman. It amounts to about a third of the Cruze inventory at Chevrolet dealers.
“No other details to share,” he said.
The order late Thursday left dealers scrambling on Friday to find out more details from GM, so they could answer questions from Cruze buyers who can't get their cars immediately.
"I have no details," GM spokesman Alan Adler said. "I'm sure somebody knows" why the order was issued, but neither he nor other GM spokesmen would provide further information.
It's unclear how the secretive approach to details of the current order fits with the pledge of "transparency" in all GM's dealings made recently by CEO Mary Barra.
Toyota has had 'stop sale' issues and more than once. Those have been met with mostly a 'yawn' here. If this involves '13 models in inventory, it will surely lead to a recall as well.
I have never had a GM product in 34 years I didn't think was a good value, and I totally trust my dealer, but liking GM is like being a Browns fan now! I get the feeling of what being a Studebaker fan in '63-66 was.
At a club auction two Sundays ago, I bought a big folder of stuff from the family of a Studebaker Club member who had recently passed. It was from the original owner of a Studebaker the club member had purchased after many years. There were personal letters from the president of Studebaker, signed, in response to 'booster' letters the owner had written. The owner was a college professor in the town I live in now; now deceased. The president of Studebaker wrote in one letter, 'thank you for your interest in our problems and it is always good to hear from a booster'. One, I can't imagine an auto company president responding personally to a letter, and secondly, I can't imagine an auto company president admitting there were 'problems'. Different time.
BTW, there is evidence that the guy bought five new Studebakers from 1959 through 1966--the last one, a month after the complete shutdown was made public. That is a fan.
Back to GM--we'll see if the people who said 'reliability trumps recalls' have any comments on what some say are reliability issues with some recent Japanese, Korean, and German models. So far, I haven't seen any comments on those, except mine.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Edit: Video is from January... Still, a new model truck that could be linked to the Tahoe that burned up last week. I got a guy in our machine shop who just bought a 2015, wonder if he would buy again. The one that burned last week certainly caught his attention when the guys in the shop were razzing him for buying his...
I don't think that even "reliability trumps recalls". Buyers' desire trumps both of those. If reliability were king, then no German car would have a place of honor in any category whatsoever. But every other automaker is out to beat the BMW 3 Series, and has been for decades. And they still can't quite create that combination of buyer desire, handling, status--whatever that magic formula is.
BMW said Friday it would spend $1 billion to boost production at its South Carolina assembly plant by 50 percent in the next two years, one more sign that the United States has become a competitive site for manufacturing and an attractive staging ground for exports.
It will be the fifth expansion of the Spartanburg, S.C., plant since BMW first started producing cars in the United States 20 years ago. By 2016, BMW will be able to produce up to 450,000 vehicles a year, up from 300,000 currently. The investment will add 800 jobs to the site, increasing the total workforce to 8,800.
The expansion is needed to meet strong global demand for BMW’s crossover SUVs, including a new, larger model announced Friday, the BMW X7. Spartanburg already produces the X3, X5, X6, and the new X4 crossovers. A new plug-in hybrid version of the X5 will be introduced soon.
“This expansion means Spartanburg will have the largest production capacity of any plant in our global production network,” said Norbert Reithofer, chairman of the BMW Board of Management. “This plant already exports, on average, 70% of its annual production with a 2013 value of more than $7.5 billion which, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce, makes BMW the largest U.S. vehicle exporter to non-NAFTA countries.”
“The BMW Group strives for a good balance of growth among all markets and continents. The Spartanburg plant is an important building block in our international network of 28 production and assembly facilities in 13 countries today and makes a vital contribution to profitable, globally balanced growth,” said Harald Krüger, BMW’s production chief.
Since production began 20 years ago, in 1994, the Spartanburg plant has produced over 2.6 million vehicles for BMW customers around the world.
After the BMW expansion, BMW will be tied with Michelin for the title of most employees (even larger than the new Boeing assembly plant in Charleston).
If the supplier base is coupled with the actual BMW personnel, it's the state leader by far.
And, 70% of the production is exported outside the US.
Not a bad replacement for the low paying, dirty environment textile industry that it replaced.
You do see lots of folks in BMW's around the SC upstate area...
That's what they said, but it took me less than thirty seconds to find video of one on fire on You Tube. I posted it a week or so ago, but won't stoop to posting it multiple times. I'll leave that to the disgruntled one who swoops in and out of here.
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On top of that, for them to recall 900K vehicles over almost a decade of production years, I'd say they were very concerned that it would happen if it hadn't already.
I think if you step back, breathe in, and think about it, it is odd that no one would have anything at all to say about that recall...but me.
This is probably a good week for Honda and Nissan to have made their two-million car recalls and Toyota's 100K-plus recall--kind of like 'wag the dog'; probably less visible than in other time periods. And who could blame them.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
@busiris said:
BMW announces major US expansion in SC...
BMW said Friday it would spend $1 billion to boost production at its South Carolina assembly plant by 50 percent in the next two years, one more sign that the United States has become a competitive site for manufacturing and an attractive staging ground for exports.
It will be the fifth expansion of the Spartanburg, S.C., plant since BMW first started producing cars in the United States 20 years ago. By 2016, BMW will be able to produce up to 450,000 vehicles a year, up from 300,000 currently. The investment will add 800 jobs to the site, increasing the total workforce to 8,800.
The expansion is needed to meet strong global demand for BMW’s crossover SUVs, including a new, larger model announced Friday, the BMW X7. Spartanburg already produces the X3, X5, X6, and the new X4 crossovers. A new plug-in hybrid version of the X5 will be introduced soon.
“This expansion means Spartanburg will have the largest production capacity of any plant in our global production network,” said Norbert Reithofer, chairman of the BMW Board of Management. “This plant already exports, on average, 70% of its annual production with a 2013 value of more than $7.5 billion which, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce, makes BMW the largest U.S. vehicle exporter to non-NAFTA countries.”
“The BMW Group strives for a good balance of growth among all markets and continents. The Spartanburg plant is an important building block in our international network of 28 production and assembly facilities in 13 countries today and makes a vital contribution to profitable, globally balanced growth,” said Harald Krüger, BMW’s production chief.
Since production began 20 years ago, in 1994, the Spartanburg plant has produced over 2.6 million vehicles for BMW customers around the world.
Wow, so they are jumping on the 3 row crossover/Mercedes GL, Audi Q7/Volvo XC90 market with new "X7" as well. Risky...
LOL, why bother reporting this one? They'll have plenty of time to fix them since the ridiculous pricetag will keep them glued to the lots longer than the 2 and 3 year old Chevy Volts that are still out there...
@uplanderguy said:
On top of that, for them to recall 900K vehicles over almost a decade of production years, I'd say they were very concerned that it would happen if it hadn't already.
I think if you step back, breathe in, and think about it, it is odd that no one would have anything at all to say about that recall...but me.
This is probably a good week for Honda and Nissan to have made their two-million car recalls and Toyota's 100K-plus recall--kind of like 'wag the dog'; probably less visible than in other time periods. And who could blame them.
Perhaps Honda is just being proactive, you know? Unlike some other recent situations.
I read online that GM's recalls so far this year have topped 4 million. I know we saw a lot of those numbers bandied about during the Toyota SUA, so we should be continuing to compare and contrast.
Exactly...and this number, although terrible (there's no other way to honestly describe it), is still less than Toyota's recall numbers of a few short years ago. I'm all for comparing and contrasting...there historically hasn't been much of that here.
I never saw one person post daily, multiple posts about Toyota's recalls, although they exceed in number GM's. That's the truth.
And, I'm not sure how pro-active Honda was being, when we're talking model years back as far as the Cobalt recalls, and a fire video is on YouTube from several years ago.
If I think back to the Explorer/Firestone recall, I wonder if one person, every single day, posted multiple articles about the recall. I'm pretty sure I know the answer would be 'no'.
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The Toyota case is long and complicated, including a large number of individual lawsuits for physical injuries and economic damages. Expensive product recalls have already been made. It has been theorized that some of the unintended vehicle accelerations might have been due to driver error; Fox News notes that Toyota won almost all of the cases against it, until finally losing a big one in Oklahoma last fall. Furthermore, “the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration never found defects in electronics or software in Toyota cars, which had been targeted as a possible cause.”
Eventually, Toyota announced a whopping $1.2 billion settlement over the investigations.
The penalty, the highest of its kind, brought an end to the four-year criminal investigation into how Toyota handled disclosures and recalls of more than 10 million vehicles for unintentional acceleration problems.
Remains to be seen how much General Motors needs to shell out as a result of this debacle.
While the cost in terms of figures is only indicative, the damage to the US Automobile industry as a whole cannot be estimated so easily. Let us hope that GM survives and emerges stronger still. After all, it has been revived not a very long time back, from $50 Million of tax payer’s money.
At least one of the persons killed in a Cobalt was reportedly inebriated and driving 69 mph on a cul-de-sac. The family could have problems in that lawsuit, no disrespect to them intended.
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Here’s iSeeCars.com’s full list of least and most recalled car lines since 1985, with the given recall rate being relative to sales registered in the U.S. from 1980 forward:
Mercedes-Benz USA: 2.1 million recalled/5.2 million sold; 0.41 recall rate.
Mazda Motor Corp: 5.2 million recalled/9.4 million sold; 0.55 recall rate.
General Motors: 99.3 million recalled/153.2 million sold; 0.65 recall rate.
Nissan North America: 19.1 million recalled/26.8 million sold; 0.71 recall rate.
Subaru of America: 4.3 million recalled/6.0 million sold; 0.73 recall rate.
Kia Motors: 3.7 million recalled/4.9 million sold; 0.77 recall rate.
Toyota Motor Corp: 38.6 million recalled/48.1 million sold; 0.80 recall rate.
BMW of North America: 5.1 million recalled/5.7 million sold; 0.90 recall rate.
Ford Motor Co: 97.0 million recalled/104.7 million sold; 0.93 recall rate.
American Honda Motor Co: 31.1 million recalled/32.9 million sold; 0.94 recall rate.
Chrysler Group: 63.2 million recalled/63.2 million sold; 1.00 recall rate.
Volvo Cars of North America: 3.3 million recalled/3.1 million sold; 1.05 recall rate.
Volkswagen of America: 10.2 million recalled/9.7 million sold; 1.06 recall rate.
Mitsubishi Motors North America: 5.3 million recalled/4.8 million sold; 1.09 recall rate.
Hyundai Motor Co: 9.9 million recalled/8.7 million sold; 1.15 recall rate.
Of the 15 major automakers surveyed, Hyundai Motor Company can lay claim to having the worst ratio, with 1.15 vehicles recalled for every model sold since it introduced the Excel to U.S. buyers in 1986. Other brands found to have recalled more cars than they sold in the U.S. over the last 30 years (needless to say this represents a number of cars for which multiple campaigns were initiated) include Mitsubishi, Volkswagen and Volvo; Chrysler broke even, so to speak, with a one-to-one sales-to-recall ratio. (Scroll down for the full results.)
Toyota/Lexus/Scion led the pack for the second year in a row with nearly 5.3 million cars and trucks recalled, followed by the Chrysler Group at around 4.7 million and Honda/Acura with nearly 2.8 million models recalled. While these would seem to be staggering numbers, as NHTSA points out they’re not weighed against sales, and as such aren’t necessarily a predictor of a given model line’s inherent safety or its long-term reliability.
Interesting, thank you for posting. I know who the leader would be this decade, although GM's numbers are nothing to brag about this year, that is for certain.
Apparently, no. 1 on your list is least-recalled; no. 15 is most-recalled, an unusual way for the article to present it.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I see everyone has been busy in my absence. Anyone even miss me! LOL Glad to be home. We drove straight through yesterday from Orlando to central Illinois. Left at 4 am and 1,070 miles and 17 hours later we were home. Traffic was bumper to bumper nearly the whole way. I've been going to Florida since I was a kid, and this trip was by far the busiest I've seen it. I wonder if anyone stayed home for spring break;)
Averaged 17.7 mpg overall. Would have been higher but had a head wind and storms for much of the way home. Plus I drove 80+ most of the time (traffic permitting.) For comparison, my Expedition and Suburban would likely have been in the 15 mpg range. Last time I took the Expedition on the same trip, I averaged about 16 mpg and didn't drive as fast.
Ram still has been perfect so far. Now that it has over 14k miles on it already. Yuck, I've only had it since September.
Those boys down south sure take their trucks seriously. I had several people ask me about my Ram when I was parked or filling up.
Plus it wasn't unusual for the rednecks in their Fords and Chevys to try to show me how cool the were by blowing buy me on the highway or from a stop light. My Ram seemed small compared to some of the lifted trucks down there.
@dieselone said:
Traffic was bumper to bumper nearly the whole way. I've been going to Florida since I was a kid, and this trip was by far the busiest I've seen it. I wonder if anyone stayed home for spring break;)
This has been one of the coldest winters I can remember in awhile, at least here in the DC area. Not as far as record lows go...we never got below maybe 3-4 degrees above zero, and we haven't had any record snow storms. But average temps have been low, and we've had more snow storms than usual that were just enough to shut the gov't down. So maybe all this cold weather has made more people than normal flock down south?
@dieselone said:>
Ram still has been perfect so far. Now that it has over 14k miles on it already. Yuck, I've only had it since September.
Even though I've had my Ram longer than yours (bought in September as well, but 2012), I guess I'll be looking to yours as a benchmark for reliability, to see if you have any problem areas. I just hit 9,000 miles this week, so I guess I'm on track for about 6,000 miles per year.
Just out of curiosity, did your Expedition or Suburban give you any issues by the 14K mark?
@circlew said:
Remains to be seen how much General Motors needs to shell out as a result of this debacle.
While the cost in terms of figures is only indicative, the damage to the US Automobile industry as a whole cannot be estimated so easily. Let us hope that GM survives and emerges stronger still. After all, it has been revived not a very long time back, from $50 Million of tax payer’s money.
Just as a comparison, I looked on You Tube for "Chevy Cobalt fires". None turned up.
Could it be that Honda America is possibly like Toyota America was a few years ago....every decision about recalls comes out of Japan? Hard to say of course...but this video of an Odyssey was posted...yesterday, a week after a 900K vehicle recall for fire hazard. Hard to not think there might be a connection. The fire video of an Odyssey I posted earlier, was from several years ago.
All I'm saying is...a 900K recall is a large one, to receive virtually zero comments here. I think that's apparent.
The signature photo in 'anythingbutgm''s line was a fire I have to assume was related to the recall at the time, of fewer than 5,000 cars. That rated a signature photo, but no comment on a 900K recall. Each of the double-digit times he posted that same picture on Edmunds, I didn't ask, "Are you sure that fire is related to the recall?"
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Could it be that Honda America is possibly like Toyota America was a few years ago....every decision about recalls comes out of Japan?
Of course it "could be".
Personally I think we should separate the location of the decision-making from the quality of the decisions. Lots of decisions came from Detroit regarding Cobalt ignition key issues, too. Just like Toyota, senior management made reprehensible decisions regarding how these companies would address defects. The country of origin is irrelevant if you are endangered by a product. It almost sounds like xenophobia to think that it's the country, rather than the decisions, that matter.
Well, I would only make that statement when it has long, long, long been repeated here that those companies are 'every bit as American' as the Detroit guys.
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@uplanderguy said:
Well, I would only make that statement when it has long, long, long been repeated here that those companies are 'every bit as American' as the Detroit guys.
Could you point to the post(s) that said this? I don't recall anybody making that statement, but I might have missed it.
Just out of curiosity, did your Expedition or Suburban give you any issues by the 14K mark?
I bought them both used. The Expedition never had anything major fail, but did have some expensive repairs. The trans needed re-flashed at 30k miles then a coil failed at like 59k
IIRC, I bought the Suburban with like 35k miles or so. By 60k it had some major things fail, like transmission and A/C, and on and on.
We'll see how the Ram holds up. One area of concern is squeaks and rattles. Both of which drive me nuts. When it's below 30 degrees out and my Ram is left outside, it will have various squeaks here and there.
That was one area where my Expedition held up well. Even with 130k miles on it, it was relatively rattle free and everything felt solid. The Suburban OTOH, was a huge rattle trap even at lower miles.
As far as reliability, I'm more concerned with the electronics than I am mechanicals. It has a large touch screen (which controls almost everything), I'm sure that could be an expensive fix out of warranty. The 100k mile power-train warranty will be useless when electronics fail.
The ZF-8 speed seems to be holding up well. It's used by several other manufacturers in some high end cars. Plus, with the Hemi, Ram uses the ZF-built unit from Germany. I'd be curious to see if there is a difference in reliability vs. the lighter duty 8 speed Chrysler builds in the US for the v6.
I've read the 8 speed actually has less parts and weighs less than ZF's prior 5 speed design. So the conventional wisdom that more gears automatically equals more parts and more complexity isn't always the case. So we'll see.
Though I had some shift issues with the 6 speed in my Expedition (also a ZF design), after a software re-flash, it was fine for 130k.
I haven't read all of the new posts (too many). But I see the '14 GM full-size trucks are also being recalled due to a possible transmission leak . Man it just keeps coming.
With all of the changes Ram has made to the 1500, I'm waiting for possible recalls to pop up. I've been surprised there haven't been any for mine yet.
@uplanderguy said:
It's been over time, not in the last ten posts or anything.
If it's been "long repeated" then there would be at least a post or two with those statements. But I don't recall any. I guess I'm just losing my memory
And most often that is correct thinking because isolated incidents don't really give you the big picture. When I hear "recall" I want to know:
What component was involved?
what percentage of cars made with that component actually proved defective?
Was this a one year recall or multiple years?
Did the recall fix the problem?
So if it's a stalling problem on 1% of that type of car made, I'm sure not going to worry about it. 99 to 1 is pretty good odds
Recalls aren't necessarily a big deal. My dad bought a '00 Taurus new and it had a ton of recalls. IIRC it had 5 or 6 recalls for various issues. He got nearly 180k or so out of it before reliability started being an issue. His 09 Accord v6 which I don't believe has ever had a recall has had more serious mechanical problems.
IIRC, there were five recalls total for the 2000 Intrepid. However, my particular model was only recalled twice. First time, was simply because they forgot to include instructions on how to install a child car seat in the owner's manual. They simply sent along a page, with the recall notice, and said to keep it with the owner's manual.
The second recall involved the rear seatback. Apparently, the bolts holding it in place were inadequate and could break, causing the seatback to suddenly drop.
I actually had the (dis)pleasure of having one of the most recalled vehicles, not only in Fords history but in automotive history, a Ford Contour back in the late 90's. My gf at the time had 98 Contour SE which she leased for 2 years and had I believe something like 12 recalls on it. It was around the same time as the original Escape (which was also one for the history books) that had really stupid stuff that could fail like gas lines and wheels falling off. The car itself was actually pretty well made and it didn't squeak or rattle at all but the amount of dealer visits was staggering.
Recalls are the nature of car ownership for any make outside of the niche companies like Aston Martin or Volvo. Heck, my Honda Accords all had ones for brakes (A known Honda weak spot) and sure it was inconvenient but I still kept and loved every single one of them, but that Contour? That one pushed the limits, big time.
That was the only time I ever witnessed or been part of someone actually taking the hit to get out of her lease 3 months early.
Welcome back Diesel, good to hear you had a safe trip and the truck is doing well for you. I've certainly seen a good amount of them here in N.E. and based on the sales trends, it looks like it could knock the Silverado down a notch this year if the recalls and problems keep popping up. Most certainly the price hike on the new models has been turning a few folks off from what I've read on various forums.
Thanks anythngbutgm, I had a '98 SVT Contour that loved being in the Ford service bay almost as much as my garage;) Loved the car, but man it was troublesome.
While the Ram will likely remain #3 in sales, the sales increases they are enjoying certianly has be strong enough to get GM and Fords attention.
The Ram's weak spot is cargo capacity. A loaded up Ram 1/2 ton can't haul and tow like a comparable F150 or Silverado.
No doubt the Silverado/Sierra are nice trucks, it's the styling I don't care for. Plus their pricing is an issue and is probably why they are offering some serious rebates on them. Plus, I don't understand why you have to get a high trim model to get the 6.2. You can get an Ecoboost v6 and Hemi in most of the F150 and Ram trim levels. Some people want more power without having to spend well over $40k. Though the 5.3 is more than enough for most buyers.
Unfortunately, CYA shenanigans go on in many bureaucracies, corporate or otherwise. I don't think this has to be a death knell for GM. A positive, aggressive resolution effort may end up enhancing GM's image in the long run. What upset me about the UA recalls on my 09 Camry was that it seemed like Toyota spent a lot of time just [non-permissible content removed] footin' around. Eventually they fixed it and I was more than satisfied that they went the extra mile and included a software brake override. GM needs to also get upfront in resolving this Stabilitrak and tranny issue that keeps showing up on various models. These situations can actually be an opportunity if the new management team handles it well. Ironically, it could end up actually helping transform their company and quality image. I'm hoping that happens because strong competition is best for the consumer. A bad GM result will achieve the opposite.
@dieselone said:
Recalls aren't necessarily a big deal.
As far as the general consumer, that's correct.
For those attempting to define a company as "good" or "bad", its a different story.
Across the entire vehicle manufacturer line-up, there are extremely few recalls that have ever caused me any concern.
Like Shifty stated earlier, if only 1% of the vehicles are actually affected (and in the vast majority of cases, its actually far less than that percentage), one has an extremely remote chance of being affected at all.
Put it this way... How many people buy lotto tickets today? How many more would buy tickets if they had a 99% chance of winning (or, if one prefers, only a 1% chance of not winning)?
Comments
Hi suydam,
If you'd like to private message us with your VIN and contact information, I would be glad to address any of your questions to the best of my ability.
Thanks,
Amber N.
GM Customer Care
I think it's great that an automaker's customer service group is on this forum. I hope others are doing this besides GM. Kudos to GM for this (assuming Amber is legitimate of course).
That was actually mentioned as a negative by some on this forum previously.
Shhhh! This is "New GM"!!
The stop sale order is for 2013 and 2014 model year Cruze sedans with the gasoline turbocharged engine, not the diesel version, said Alan Adler, a GM spokesman. It amounts to about a third of the Cruze inventory at Chevrolet dealers.
“No other details to share,” he said.
The order late Thursday left dealers scrambling on Friday to find out more details from GM, so they could answer questions from Cruze buyers who can't get their cars immediately.
"I have no details," GM spokesman Alan Adler said. "I'm sure somebody knows" why the order was issued, but neither he nor other GM spokesmen would provide further information.
It's unclear how the secretive approach to details of the current order fits with the pledge of "transparency" in all GM's dealings made recently by CEO Mary Barra.
Toyota has had 'stop sale' issues and more than once. Those have been met with mostly a 'yawn' here. If this involves '13 models in inventory, it will surely lead to a recall as well.
I have never had a GM product in 34 years I didn't think was a good value, and I totally trust my dealer, but liking GM is like being a Browns fan now! I get the feeling of what being a Studebaker fan in '63-66 was.
At a club auction two Sundays ago, I bought a big folder of stuff from the family of a Studebaker Club member who had recently passed. It was from the original owner of a Studebaker the club member had purchased after many years. There were personal letters from the president of Studebaker, signed, in response to 'booster' letters the owner had written. The owner was a college professor in the town I live in now; now deceased. The president of Studebaker wrote in one letter, 'thank you for your interest in our problems and it is always good to hear from a booster'. One, I can't imagine an auto company president responding personally to a letter, and secondly, I can't imagine an auto company president admitting there were 'problems'. Different time.
BTW, there is evidence that the guy bought five new Studebakers from 1959 through 1966--the last one, a month after the complete shutdown was made public. That is a fan.
Back to GM--we'll see if the people who said 'reliability trumps recalls' have any comments on what some say are reliability issues with some recent Japanese, Korean, and German models. So far, I haven't seen any comments on those, except mine.
BTW, here's what the Cruze 'stop sell' is about--no big secret:
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/gm-recalls-cruze-compacts-fix-front-axle-shafts
'13 Cruze 1.4--'better than average' per CR.
4.8 million...
http://www.newsday.com/business/2-more-recalls-push-gm-total-to-4-8m-in-a-month-1.7543321
And another truck fire, this time a SIlverado...
http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/159777-2014-silverado-fire-video-day-before-recall/
Rut ro...
Edit: Video is from January... Still, a new model truck that could be linked to the Tahoe that burned up last week. I got a guy in our machine shop who just bought a 2015, wonder if he would buy again. The one that burned last week certainly caught his attention when the guys in the shop were razzing him for buying his...
Any opinion, even a single word, on the 900K Odyssey fire-hazard recall last week, anything?
Just sayin'.
I don't think that even "reliability trumps recalls". Buyers' desire trumps both of those. If reliability were king, then no German car would have a place of honor in any category whatsoever. But every other automaker is out to beat the BMW 3 Series, and has been for decades. And they still can't quite create that combination of buyer desire, handling, status--whatever that magic formula is.
In short, "it's complicated".
BMW announces major US expansion in SC...
BMW said Friday it would spend $1 billion to boost production at its South Carolina assembly plant by 50 percent in the next two years, one more sign that the United States has become a competitive site for manufacturing and an attractive staging ground for exports.
It will be the fifth expansion of the Spartanburg, S.C., plant since BMW first started producing cars in the United States 20 years ago. By 2016, BMW will be able to produce up to 450,000 vehicles a year, up from 300,000 currently. The investment will add 800 jobs to the site, increasing the total workforce to 8,800.
The expansion is needed to meet strong global demand for BMW’s crossover SUVs, including a new, larger model announced Friday, the BMW X7. Spartanburg already produces the X3, X5, X6, and the new X4 crossovers. A new plug-in hybrid version of the X5 will be introduced soon.
“This expansion means Spartanburg will have the largest production capacity of any plant in our global production network,” said Norbert Reithofer, chairman of the BMW Board of Management. “This plant already exports, on average, 70% of its annual production with a 2013 value of more than $7.5 billion which, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce, makes BMW the largest U.S. vehicle exporter to non-NAFTA countries.”
“The BMW Group strives for a good balance of growth among all markets and continents. The Spartanburg plant is an important building block in our international network of 28 production and assembly facilities in 13 countries today and makes a vital contribution to profitable, globally balanced growth,” said Harald Krüger, BMW’s production chief.
Since production began 20 years ago, in 1994, the Spartanburg plant has produced over 2.6 million vehicles for BMW customers around the world.
That's a good thing, busiris. Buying local is always a good thing and I think you've said you had.
After the BMW expansion, BMW will be tied with Michelin for the title of most employees (even larger than the new Boeing assembly plant in Charleston).
If the supplier base is coupled with the actual BMW personnel, it's the state leader by far.
And, 70% of the production is exported outside the US.
Not a bad replacement for the low paying, dirty environment textile industry that it replaced.
You do see lots of folks in BMW's around the SC upstate area...
Have there been any actual fires? I believe Honda said no fires have been reported. So that's a big difference.
That's what they said, but it took me less than thirty seconds to find video of one on fire on You Tube. I posted it a week or so ago, but won't stoop to posting it multiple times. I'll leave that to the disgruntled one who swoops in and out of here.
On top of that, for them to recall 900K vehicles over almost a decade of production years, I'd say they were very concerned that it would happen if it hadn't already.
I think if you step back, breathe in, and think about it, it is odd that no one would have anything at all to say about that recall...but me.
This is probably a good week for Honda and Nissan to have made their two-million car recalls and Toyota's 100K-plus recall--kind of like 'wag the dog'; probably less visible than in other time periods. And who could blame them.
Wow, so they are jumping on the 3 row crossover/Mercedes GL, Audi Q7/Volvo XC90 market with new "X7" as well. Risky...
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/03/28/bmw-x7-spartanburg-production-official/
Hopefully they avoid the idea of an "X8" which although cheap to produce for BMW, would be pushing the SAV idea a bit far IMO...
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/03/28/cadillac-recalls-elr-coupe-over-stability-control-problems/
LOL, why bother reporting this one? They'll have plenty of time to fix them since the ridiculous pricetag will keep them glued to the lots longer than the 2 and 3 year old Chevy Volts that are still out there...
Perhaps Honda is just being proactive, you know? Unlike some other recent situations.
I read online that GM's recalls so far this year have topped 4 million. I know we saw a lot of those numbers bandied about during the Toyota SUA, so we should be continuing to compare and contrast.
Exactly...and this number, although terrible (there's no other way to honestly describe it), is still less than Toyota's recall numbers of a few short years ago. I'm all for comparing and contrasting...there historically hasn't been much of that here.
I never saw one person post daily, multiple posts about Toyota's recalls, although they exceed in number GM's. That's the truth.
And, I'm not sure how pro-active Honda was being, when we're talking model years back as far as the Cobalt recalls, and a fire video is on YouTube from several years ago.
If I think back to the Explorer/Firestone recall, I wonder if one person, every single day, posted multiple articles about the recall. I'm pretty sure I know the answer would be 'no'.
The Toyota case is long and complicated, including a large number of individual lawsuits for physical injuries and economic damages. Expensive product recalls have already been made. It has been theorized that some of the unintended vehicle accelerations might have been due to driver error; Fox News notes that Toyota won almost all of the cases against it, until finally losing a big one in Oklahoma last fall. Furthermore, “the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration never found defects in electronics or software in Toyota cars, which had been targeted as a possible cause.”
Eventually, Toyota announced a whopping $1.2 billion settlement over the investigations.
The penalty, the highest of its kind, brought an end to the four-year criminal investigation into how Toyota handled disclosures and recalls of more than 10 million vehicles for unintentional acceleration problems.
Remains to be seen how much General Motors needs to shell out as a result of this debacle.
While the cost in terms of figures is only indicative, the damage to the US Automobile industry as a whole cannot be estimated so easily. Let us hope that GM survives and emerges stronger still. After all, it has been revived not a very long time back, from $50 Million of tax payer’s money.
At least one of the persons killed in a Cobalt was reportedly inebriated and driving 69 mph on a cul-de-sac. The family could have problems in that lawsuit, no disrespect to them intended.
Here’s iSeeCars.com’s full list of least and most recalled car lines since 1985, with the given recall rate being relative to sales registered in the U.S. from 1980 forward:
Of the 15 major automakers surveyed, Hyundai Motor Company can lay claim to having the worst ratio, with 1.15 vehicles recalled for every model sold since it introduced the Excel to U.S. buyers in 1986. Other brands found to have recalled more cars than they sold in the U.S. over the last 30 years (needless to say this represents a number of cars for which multiple campaigns were initiated) include Mitsubishi, Volkswagen and Volvo; Chrysler broke even, so to speak, with a one-to-one sales-to-recall ratio. (Scroll down for the full results.)
Toyota/Lexus/Scion led the pack for the second year in a row with nearly 5.3 million cars and trucks recalled, followed by the Chrysler Group at around 4.7 million and Honda/Acura with nearly 2.8 million models recalled. While these would seem to be staggering numbers, as NHTSA points out they’re not weighed against sales, and as such aren’t necessarily a predictor of a given model line’s inherent safety or its long-term reliability.
Interesting, thank you for posting. I know who the leader would be this decade, although GM's numbers are nothing to brag about this year, that is for certain.
Apparently, no. 1 on your list is least-recalled; no. 15 is most-recalled, an unusual way for the article to present it.
I see everyone has been busy in my absence. Anyone even miss me! LOL Glad to be home. We drove straight through yesterday from Orlando to central Illinois. Left at 4 am and 1,070 miles and 17 hours later we were home. Traffic was bumper to bumper nearly the whole way. I've been going to Florida since I was a kid, and this trip was by far the busiest I've seen it. I wonder if anyone stayed home for spring break;)
Averaged 17.7 mpg overall. Would have been higher but had a head wind and storms for much of the way home. Plus I drove 80+ most of the time (traffic permitting.) For comparison, my Expedition and Suburban would likely have been in the 15 mpg range. Last time I took the Expedition on the same trip, I averaged about 16 mpg and didn't drive as fast.
Ram still has been perfect so far. Now that it has over 14k miles on it already. Yuck, I've only had it since September.
Those boys down south sure take their trucks seriously. I had several people ask me about my Ram when I was parked or filling up.
Plus it wasn't unusual for the rednecks in their Fords and Chevys to try to show me how cool the were by blowing buy me on the highway or from a stop light. My Ram seemed small compared to some of the lifted trucks down there.
New video on YouTube from yesterday:
This has been one of the coldest winters I can remember in awhile, at least here in the DC area. Not as far as record lows go...we never got below maybe 3-4 degrees above zero, and we haven't had any record snow storms. But average temps have been low, and we've had more snow storms than usual that were just enough to shut the gov't down. So maybe all this cold weather has made more people than normal flock down south?
Even though I've had my Ram longer than yours (bought in September as well, but 2012), I guess I'll be looking to yours as a benchmark for reliability, to see if you have any problem areas. I just hit 9,000 miles this week, so I guess I'm on track for about 6,000 miles per year.
Just out of curiosity, did your Expedition or Suburban give you any issues by the 14K mark?
That's $Billion.
Yes, but all and any vehicles can catch fire. The real question is what is the cause? Is it related to the recall problem?
I'd say there was a problem.
Just as a comparison, I looked on You Tube for "Chevy Cobalt fires". None turned up.
Could it be that Honda America is possibly like Toyota America was a few years ago....every decision about recalls comes out of Japan? Hard to say of course...but this video of an Odyssey was posted...yesterday, a week after a 900K vehicle recall for fire hazard. Hard to not think there might be a connection. The fire video of an Odyssey I posted earlier, was from several years ago.
All I'm saying is...a 900K recall is a large one, to receive virtually zero comments here. I think that's apparent.
The signature photo in 'anythingbutgm''s line was a fire I have to assume was related to the recall at the time, of fewer than 5,000 cars. That rated a signature photo, but no comment on a 900K recall. Each of the double-digit times he posted that same picture on Edmunds, I didn't ask, "Are you sure that fire is related to the recall?"
>
Of course it "could be".
Personally I think we should separate the location of the decision-making from the quality of the decisions. Lots of decisions came from Detroit regarding Cobalt ignition key issues, too. Just like Toyota, senior management made reprehensible decisions regarding how these companies would address defects. The country of origin is irrelevant if you are endangered by a product. It almost sounds like xenophobia to think that it's the country, rather than the decisions, that matter.
Well, I would only make that statement when it has long, long, long been repeated here that those companies are 'every bit as American' as the Detroit guys.
What's interesting about the list is that it doesn't seem related very much at all to sales successes.
Remember, the recall list reads backwards--worst are at the bottom of the list.
Could you point to the post(s) that said this? I don't recall anybody making that statement, but I might have missed it.
It's been over time, not in the last ten posts or anything.
G> @andre1969 said:
I bought them both used. The Expedition never had anything major fail, but did have some expensive repairs. The trans needed re-flashed at 30k miles then a coil failed at like 59k
IIRC, I bought the Suburban with like 35k miles or so. By 60k it had some major things fail, like transmission and A/C, and on and on.
We'll see how the Ram holds up. One area of concern is squeaks and rattles. Both of which drive me nuts. When it's below 30 degrees out and my Ram is left outside, it will have various squeaks here and there.
That was one area where my Expedition held up well. Even with 130k miles on it, it was relatively rattle free and everything felt solid. The Suburban OTOH, was a huge rattle trap even at lower miles.
As far as reliability, I'm more concerned with the electronics than I am mechanicals. It has a large touch screen (which controls almost everything), I'm sure that could be an expensive fix out of warranty. The 100k mile power-train warranty will be useless when electronics fail.
The ZF-8 speed seems to be holding up well. It's used by several other manufacturers in some high end cars. Plus, with the Hemi, Ram uses the ZF-built unit from Germany. I'd be curious to see if there is a difference in reliability vs. the lighter duty 8 speed Chrysler builds in the US for the v6.
I've read the 8 speed actually has less parts and weighs less than ZF's prior 5 speed design. So the conventional wisdom that more gears automatically equals more parts and more complexity isn't always the case. So we'll see.
Though I had some shift issues with the 6 speed in my Expedition (also a ZF design), after a software re-flash, it was fine for 130k.
I haven't read all of the new posts (too many). But I see the '14 GM full-size trucks are also being recalled due to a possible transmission leak . Man it just keeps coming.
With all of the changes Ram has made to the 1500, I'm waiting for possible recalls to pop up. I've been surprised there haven't been any for mine yet.
Agreed. In that same thought, how many air travelers canceled their flights due to the loss of the missing Malaysian airliner?
Air travelers, just like car buyers, don't think the bad things will ever happen to them. It's always some other guy that catches the crap...
That's human nature...
If it's been "long repeated" then there would be at least a post or two with those statements. But I don't recall any. I guess I'm just losing my memory
And most often that is correct thinking because isolated incidents don't really give you the big picture. When I hear "recall" I want to know:
What component was involved?
what percentage of cars made with that component actually proved defective?
Was this a one year recall or multiple years?
Did the recall fix the problem?
So if it's a stalling problem on 1% of that type of car made, I'm sure not going to worry about it. 99 to 1 is pretty good odds
Recalls aren't necessarily a big deal. My dad bought a '00 Taurus new and it had a ton of recalls. IIRC it had 5 or 6 recalls for various issues. He got nearly 180k or so out of it before reliability started being an issue. His 09 Accord v6 which I don't believe has ever had a recall has had more serious mechanical problems.
IIRC, there were five recalls total for the 2000 Intrepid. However, my particular model was only recalled twice. First time, was simply because they forgot to include instructions on how to install a child car seat in the owner's manual. They simply sent along a page, with the recall notice, and said to keep it with the owner's manual.
The second recall involved the rear seatback. Apparently, the bolts holding it in place were inadequate and could break, causing the seatback to suddenly drop.
No recalls on my 2012 Ram. Yet!
I actually had the (dis)pleasure of having one of the most recalled vehicles, not only in Fords history but in automotive history, a Ford Contour back in the late 90's. My gf at the time had 98 Contour SE which she leased for 2 years and had I believe something like 12 recalls on it. It was around the same time as the original Escape (which was also one for the history books) that had really stupid stuff that could fail like gas lines and wheels falling off. The car itself was actually pretty well made and it didn't squeak or rattle at all but the amount of dealer visits was staggering.
Recalls are the nature of car ownership for any make outside of the niche companies like Aston Martin or Volvo. Heck, my Honda Accords all had ones for brakes (A known Honda weak spot) and sure it was inconvenient but I still kept and loved every single one of them, but that Contour? That one pushed the limits, big time.
That was the only time I ever witnessed or been part of someone actually taking the hit to get out of her lease 3 months early.
Welcome back Diesel, good to hear you had a safe trip and the truck is doing well for you. I've certainly seen a good amount of them here in N.E. and based on the sales trends, it looks like it could knock the Silverado down a notch this year if the recalls and problems keep popping up. Most certainly the price hike on the new models has been turning a few folks off from what I've read on various forums.
Thanks anythngbutgm, I had a '98 SVT Contour that loved being in the Ford service bay almost as much as my garage;) Loved the car, but man it was troublesome.
While the Ram will likely remain #3 in sales, the sales increases they are enjoying certianly has be strong enough to get GM and Fords attention.
The Ram's weak spot is cargo capacity. A loaded up Ram 1/2 ton can't haul and tow like a comparable F150 or Silverado.
No doubt the Silverado/Sierra are nice trucks, it's the styling I don't care for. Plus their pricing is an issue and is probably why they are offering some serious rebates on them. Plus, I don't understand why you have to get a high trim model to get the 6.2. You can get an Ecoboost v6 and Hemi in most of the F150 and Ram trim levels. Some people want more power without having to spend well over $40k. Though the 5.3 is more than enough for most buyers.
Unfortunately, CYA shenanigans go on in many bureaucracies, corporate or otherwise. I don't think this has to be a death knell for GM. A positive, aggressive resolution effort may end up enhancing GM's image in the long run. What upset me about the UA recalls on my 09 Camry was that it seemed like Toyota spent a lot of time just [non-permissible content removed] footin' around. Eventually they fixed it and I was more than satisfied that they went the extra mile and included a software brake override. GM needs to also get upfront in resolving this Stabilitrak and tranny issue that keeps showing up on various models. These situations can actually be an opportunity if the new management team handles it well. Ironically, it could end up actually helping transform their company and quality image. I'm hoping that happens because strong competition is best for the consumer. A bad GM result will achieve the opposite.
As far as the general consumer, that's correct.
For those attempting to define a company as "good" or "bad", its a different story.
Across the entire vehicle manufacturer line-up, there are extremely few recalls that have ever caused me any concern.
Like Shifty stated earlier, if only 1% of the vehicles are actually affected (and in the vast majority of cases, its actually far less than that percentage), one has an extremely remote chance of being affected at all.
Put it this way... How many people buy lotto tickets today? How many more would buy tickets if they had a 99% chance of winning (or, if one prefers, only a 1% chance of not winning)?