The Current State of the US Auto Market

14748505253130

Comments

  • ohenryxohenryx Member Posts: 285
    edited August 2013
    The story this month is VW sales.

    So what exactly is VW doing wrong? I think their problem is the engine lineup. The only engine they have that I would consider buying is the 2.0T, the turbo charged 4 cylinder. And you can no longer get that engine in the Passat or the Jetta, their two biggest sellers.

    Yes, I know about the diesel, but most Americans are simply not ready to buy a diesel engine, not at this point in time. As for myself, I no longer drive enough miles per year to have an interest in a diesel. Driving maybe 12,000 miles per year, and that spread across 2 or 3 vehicles, I don't really care about mpg.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I would say decontenting the Passat hurt them but that theory is shot to smithereens since Passat sales took off after they lowered the price. The reliability issue could be hanging over them, but I think they are doing better there too (but everyone is), and their dealer network is getting a better reputation.

    VW doesn't have trucks and trucks are in a hotcakes mode right now. I wonder if a lot of people just think VWs are too "small" and don't bother checking out the showroom.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Looks like lack of new product is one reason.

    VW unfazed by U.S. sales lull as luxury brands gain
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    True, and profits are up.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    Speaking of Asians, just got off the phone with my financial advisor. He's a huge proponent of Consumer Reports, and asked if I paid them for the Impala raves. ;)

    He did say his 2010 Camry is using oil at a rather alarming rate, at only 26K miles--1 1/2 qts. in 3K miles. I told him while that's not a crisis, it is inconvenient. He said he looked online and that's not uncommon (his words).

    I don't know, as I don't troll Toyota pages.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    So what exactly is VW doing wrong? I think their problem is the engine lineup. The only engine they have that I would consider buying is the 2.0T, the turbo charged 4 cylinder. And you can no longer get that engine in the Passat or the Jetta, their two biggest sellers.

    IMHO, that isn't the issue. The 2.5 offered has comparable horsepower to the competition and the V6 needs to be offered - again due to the competition offering a V6. Although the 2.0T is a great option, most buyers in this segment probable fear the idea of a turbo.

    BTW, the Jetta is now available with the 2.0T.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Looks like lack of new product is one reason.

    That is a part of the issue. Passat and Jetta sales jumped on the new models but they now have to continue upgrading features and not let these models hang around 6-8 years.

    VW also needs a Passat 3 row crossover, a Jetta 2 row crossover, and a subcompact all of which need to be built in North America. IMHO a new van (Transporter) and truck (Amarok) would not be worth importing.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    Met another VW owner and asked about it. He raved about the car but then said that at 70,000 miles it started having several major problems that had to be fixed to keep it running. Not nearly as bad as the Mini story I heard last week. A mini Cooper with 40k miles died on way to Indy and got towed to the Indy BMW dealership for repairs. $3000 into the repair, the dealer figured out that it was an oil pump gone bad and it was $4000 more to finish replacing the oil pump.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    Saw one Impala about a month ago in a driveway. It seemed very long and had 0 similarity to the '13 model. Ford Escape seems really popular in midwest. Camry, Corolla, and any H too.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2013
    My sister keeps having niggling issues with her '05 Forester (she's exceptionally hard on cars). And she wants a MINI bad.

    I've warned her again and again but the best I've been able to do is to try to steer her toward a new MINI instead of taking a chance on a used one. I won't be surprised if we don't go car shopping when I visit her later this fall. Part of me really wants her to get one so I can drive it some. :shades:

    She would keep the Subaru for backup at least.
  • ohenryxohenryx Member Posts: 285
    BTW, the Jetta is now available with the 2.0T.

    Do you have a reference for that? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    I might add, the 'Asian' I spoke of is his Camry, not my financial advisor. ;)

    Just to clarify.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Do you have a reference for that? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

    vw.com

    Jetta Engines

    It's the GLI engine.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    A mini Cooper with 40k miles died on way to Indy and got towed to the Indy BMW dealership for repairs. $3000 into the repair, the dealer figured out that it was an oil pump gone bad and it was $4000 more to finish replacing the oil pump.

    Dave, under most circumstances, wouldn't said car with 40K miles still be under its powertrain warranty?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    The VW/Audi 2.0T will be around for a while. Yes a new 1.8T is replacing the 2.5 5 cyl. Go and drive a 2.0T, you will love it. And its in the Golf and Beetle also.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Is it just me or does the '14 Caddy CTS look like they copied everyone from Mercedes, BMW, Kia, Mazda, VW, Audi, and Hyundai?

    I wont be buying one of these Kialacs!
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Saw one Impala about a month ago in a driveway. It seemed very long and had 0 similarity to the '13 model. Ford Escape seems really popular in midwest. Camry, Corolla, and any H too.

    Escape is doing really well - tons of them here in CA, too.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I don't troll the Chevy pages but apparently the same happens for them:

    I have a 2007 Tahoe LTZ 5.3 and in between oil changes I lose between 1-2 quarts of oil. I'm not burning it and it's not leaking anywhere. I am using a high quality oil has anyone else had this problem? ;)
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    edited August 2013
    I don't troll the Chevy pages but apparently the same happens for them:

    You never trolled a GM page? Who are you, and what have you done with circlew? ;)

    Come on, conventional wisdom is that every Chevy ever made uses oil. Everyone knows that stuff doesn't happen on a Toyota. ;)

    (Especially one three model years newer than the example you provided.)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited August 2013
    I am the new Upender! more balance than ever! ;)

    Come on, conventional wisdom is that every Chevy ever made uses oil.

    You said it! :)
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    Incidentally, the Camry story came to me. I didn't have to go look for it. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    It took one second to get the Chevy oiler story. :)

    I can get more but why bother? You get the point. Remember, balance.
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    edited August 2013
    It took one second to get the Chevy oiler story.

    I can get more but why bother? You get the point. Remember, balance.


    Well I did a google search for "Toyota oil consumption problems" which yielded 1,250,000 results. The search for "Chevrolet oil consumption problems" yielded 406,000 results.

    On AutoBeef.com a site that records complaints for all vehicles, the same searches resulted in a total of 3,260 for Toyota and 2,480 for Chevrolet.

    Yeah, I know internet search results are meaningless....
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Yeah, I know internet search results are meaningless....

    Just for kicks, I did a slight modification:

    "Chevrolet transmission failure" - 119 million
    "Toyota transmission failure" - 1.17 million

    And of course there could be some "Chevy" spellings that don't show up in the "Chevrolet" search term, too. :P
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    "Chevrolet engine failure" = 1,180,000

    "Toyota engine failure" = 1,590,000
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    "Chevrolet air conditioner failure" = 6.2 million

    "Toyota air conditioner failure" = 9.5 million
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    How about:

    "Honda air conditioner failure" = 15.4 million
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    "Chevrolet engine failure" = 1,180,000

    "Toyota engine failure" = 1,590,000


    So it appears, relatively, that GM engines are good but trannys not so much!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I bet that's one Toyota owner who was so shocked that he complained 1,500,000 times. :P
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    It took one second to get the Chevy oiler story

    One second?

    More hyperbole. Shocker.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Oil usage aside, let's look at the bigger picture, shall we?


    In North America last year, GM's profit margin was 7.6 percent, trailing Ford's 10.4 percent, a record for Ford.

    At current exchange rates, Toyota’s estimated 2013 profit would be $17.9 billion while Volkswagen’s would be $17.3 billion. The average forecast for GM’s operating profit is $7 billion.

    The results were enough to spark a 6 percent rise in Toyota’s U.S.-listed shares, and surely to strike fear in the hearts of Toyota’s competitors. As Bloomberg news points out, while Toyota was edged out by General Motors in number of cars and trucks sold, it recorded more than three times the profit.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Amazing what a little currency manipulation will do. (washingtonpost.com)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,724
    >Oil usage aside, let's look at the bigger picture, shall we?

    I will let that quote stand with only one comment! OMG, suggesting having an open mind to look at that broader picture!!!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Thanks! As you know, GM is still behind the best in the world in many ways.

    They are doing much better on the taxpayers dime at the moment. Just not close to the top profit companies, oil usage aside. ;)

    BTW, when can I expect tyranny and A/C issues to arise in my daughter's CR-V?

    70K and no issues beside a computer re-flash so far.

    By now, my previous GM example was over $5K in failures.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited August 2013
    Exactly. But they are in the position that GM will probably never see. Low cost structure!

    And rather than try to build market share by lowering prices, the automaker is mostly using its lower cost structure to achieve higher profit margins. In fact, the number of cars it sold in the quarter was actually slightly below the level of the same quarter last year, 2.23 million, down from 2.27 million. But Toyota was making more money off of each car, reaping higher profits. That’s particularly welcome for U.S. and European automakers, who can live with the fact that Toyota is making record profits but would be hard-pressed to match price cuts. (It may also be politically savvy of Toyota because if it were to slash prices and grow market share, it could push other governments to raise the political pressure on Japan to curtail its easy money policies.)

    All they need do is invest one-third of the 3X profit advantage over the American Dinosaur GM into their products to keep them best in class and their market share will rise by itself. IF they are not too big to execute that strategy.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    BTW, when can I expect tyranny and A/C issues to arise in my daughter's CR-V?

    Sheesh, I've heard of tranny and AC issues in CR-V's, but not 'tyranny'. Man, the Japanese makes lead GM again! ;)

    I've yet to even put a battery in my Cobalt...five years and four months old and 62K miles and it sits outside all the time. You would be amazed at the smoothness of idle...original plugs and wires. Built-in satellite radio. I'm still very happy with my $9,900 new car purchase which was built 40 miles down the road from me. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    edited August 2013
    You heard it here first...

    I gotta say, the Edmunds pic of the blue '14 Silverado that shows up when I log in, doesn't do very much for me. The front end reminds me a bit of the Wagon Master Family Truckster--that two-tier look of the same thing.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Pick a car, any car, and we could all find multiple horrifying tales of misery and woe in about 5 minutes. Bentley, Ferrari, Benz, Ford, any car.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,724
    >...five years and four months old and 62K miles and it sits outside all the time.

    Mine is 5 years also on the battery. It's home from OSU for a couple weeks between apartments and I find the battery cranks just fine. I'd just put in a Walmart battery if it didn't. Engine idles very quietly and smoothly. Shifts great. Rolls well on the Michelin Defender tires.

    I was looking at the used cars at a local Hyonda dealer and noticed their storage area for their repairs seemed really full. The doors to the repair all 5 of them were open wide and they were in there working. Must be a lot of things going wrong with those perfect cars from Hondia. Hadn't seen that before--even when the showroom has closed for the evening. I was going to take sit in the new Accord to see if I wanted to test drive. Now that they've "cured" the noise problem that they and their fans claimed they never had all along (:grin). I think a toyota would be a better buy because they are working so hard to sell cars to get a title of #1--that's with those incentives that folks in 2003 were telling me Hyonda and toyota didn't need because their cars were so perfect.

    As far as I can tell, they put their wheels on one lugnut at a time. All cars have things that go wrong, even the CLK500's of which two have shown up at a neighbor's shadetree garage, cars owned by cheapskates that don't want to pay 1200$ for a Mercedes tuneup. If you can't afford to maintain it, don't buy it would be my motto for the status-seekers.

    I'd like to buy a relatively low mileage Cobalt for myself to drive but the prices on used ones are outrageous. I get mail from dealers wanting to buy my black 2LT with a package that gives the low running lights and leather wrapped wheel and shift lever.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well go to the ER room and you'll see a lot of sick people, too. :P
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    You're preaching to the choir here, Shifty. There are others here that seem to have a problem understanding that.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,604
    Newest CLK500 would have been built over 7 years ago, plenty of time for things to need maintenance, which is often deferred by someone trying to look rich for cheap. Some complex models (A8, 7er especially) age worse than normal cars, as they require more upkeep - things that someone coming from an old simple low maintenance econobox might not be willing or able to complete.

    Cobalt SS would be one to find - a mint cared for one (turbo model esp) will become a special interest car.
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    edited August 2013
    At current exchange rates, Toyota’s estimated 2013 profit would be $17.9 billion \

    They will need the extra revenue to pay for their ongoing frame replacement program for Tacoma and Tundra. They are mostly keeping owners of trucks up to MY 2004 satisfied, but unfortunately there are many with MY 2005 and above with the same rust problem. There is no official reframing program in place for the newer models and owners are not very happy when they are told that by their friendly Toyota dealer while also being told the truck is unsafe to drive.

    Their are some examples of Toyota stepping up and re-framing the 2005+ models, and eventually probably will have to extend the program for the newer trucks. For the most part the owners with new frames seem very satisfied, as they should due to the fact that each re-frame costs in the $10K-$14K range often on trucks that are only worth half that.

    Obviously Toyota is serious about maintaining their reputation.
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    edited August 2013
    I was gratified to see that Edmunds has removed the phrase "Has a reputation for low reliabililty" from the "cons" section of the overview of the used Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky.

    I wrote a post possibly a year ago about that phrase due to the fact that in the same overview in the reliability section the cars had solid green checkmarks. At the same time in the overview of the Mazda RX-8 there was no mention of the well documented terrible reliability record of its Rotary engine.

    I interpreted that as anti-GM bias and stated such in my post. I am glad that Edmunds realized that there was no legitimate reason for that comment in their overview of the GM twins.. My son's girlfriend has a Solstice. She loves it and it has been very reliable, but I agree the interior is cheap.

    Of course the change could have nothing to do with my post and it might have been made as just ongoing updating by Edmunds.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    edited August 2013
    I'd like to buy a relatively low mileage Cobalt for myself to drive but the prices on used ones are outrageous. I get mail from dealers wanting to buy my black 2LT with a package that gives the low running lights and leather wrapped wheel and shift lever.

    Boy, no kidding...for a defunct model, used ones still bring a lot IMHO. I've been looking for an '09 for my younger daughter, thinking I could find one that still has some of the 5 yr./100K powertrain warranty left. I don't want to buy a car with over 100K miles, but ones with a lot less than that still are in the $9K range...or more. Sheesh!

    She's not enamored with learning to drive a five-speed in our '08. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    She's not enamored with learning to drive a five-speed in our '08.

    It'll build character and everyone taught to drive a stick helps keep the dream alive. The dream? That of keeping the standard transmission from going the way of the Studebaker. :shades:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 5,111
    It seems a little weird to hear people singing the praises of the defunct Cobalt, a thoroughly average car if there ever was one. You know, my Pontiac Vibe is reliable and trouble-free too, but I have no pretensions about it. It is what it is-- a decent runabout with great cargo capacity that doesn't break down. Used prices are high for it too. But that's about as far as it goes.
    '24 Kia Sportage PHEV
    '24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,006
    edited August 2013
    The Cobalt is good at what it is supposed to do IMHO--again, with ABS, AC, and satellite radio, after my GM card points, I paid $9,900 for mine, new. It has been an outstanding value. It's my go-to-work, point A to point B car and I'm amazed at how silent it is on the highway and how smoothly it idles for an econobox. And it's been reliable.

    I'll be the first to concede, I tend to not think like the average guy does. If I want a car that feels good, bolsters my image, I'd rather it be an old car than something new. But that's me.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Probably most of the bad reputation of the Solstice comes from the CR review of 2008, which put the 2006 on the list of "used cars to avoid". But to be fair, many Pontiac models were on that list, and GM made up about 40% of the list at that time.

    But for models 2007 on up, the reviews I see on reliability are pretty good.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Amazing what a little currency manipulation will do. (washingtonpost.com)

    Of course all countries do these sorts of things to manage their economies. Japan is printing excess money and spending a bunch domestically to spur the economy, and in the process, increasing their deficit significantly. Sound familiar? :P
This discussion has been closed.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.